Final 2013 CFL attendance

[Qman]

Attendance is getting less and less meaningful as a indicator of interest level. Football is turning into TV sport. Now all the games are on TV. TSN does a decent job with telecasts. With the new TV contracts $4m per team per season, TV revenue will be almost half of gate revenue. Also long as lions continue to sellout all the 15,000 $70-88 seats between the 20yrd lines through season tix (albiet at a discount to regular prices) plus the TV money they make money plus get 800,000 on TV, its a sucessfull season on the business side.

[notahomer]

Attendance is getting less and less meaningful as a indicator of interest level. Football is turning into TV sport. Now all the games are on TV. TSN does a decent job with telecasts. With the new TV contracts $4m per team per season, TV revenue will be almost half of gate revenue. Also long as lions continue to sellout all the 15,000 $70-88 seats between the 20yrd lines through season tix (albiet at a discount to regular prices) plus the TV money they make money plus get 800,000 on TV, its a sucessfull season on the business side.

Exactly! Why spend money when a good quality product is available on TV? I know I think going to the stadium is worth it but lots of Lions fans out there do not feel the same way.

[BC 1988]

Thinking back on the home games this season, I'm a bit more dedicated fan than my friend (who decided not to go with me to the last two). I remember saying to him early season that "it looks like no one wants to win this game" a few times when there was little offense being shown by either side. The Lions ended up winning them all anyway, but without much flair. Credit our defense being better than theirs.

The effect on the casual fan adds up.

[Toppy Vann]

Attendance is getting less and less meaningful as a indicator of interest level. Football is turning into TV sport. Now all the games are on TV. TSN does a decent job with telecasts. With the new TV contracts $4m per team per season, TV revenue will be almost half of gate revenue. Also long as lions continue to sellout all the 15,000 $70-88 seats between the 20yrd lines through season tix (albiet at a discount to regular prices) plus the TV money they make money plus get 800,000 on TV, its a sucessfull season on the business side.

You are absolutely right on one aspect. As TSN broadcasts have gotten better and better and IF you don't go to a home Friday nighter in Vancouver, you can get the earlier game or part of it after you get home - there is less need to spend money and the disincentive to go to games grows as the prices rise.

However the CFL is back in Ottawa for another shot at it. I'm not sure if that market is lousy or the city and the CFL cursed but this poses another risk to credibility which is already stretched with the Argos not able to draw great numbers despite this new regime with Barker (who has done a great job) and especially his choice of HC. Sure the Ray trade was key but I see some very good coaching there.

This game to attract and retain sponsors still needs credibility in the stadiums as they key work in synch. They just can't see advertisers the TV ratings - people cheering and making it look good are key.

If they don't grow the revenues the players and coaches and refs etc can keep up with the need to pay decently. Right now only the top guys make huge dollars.

We can't underestimate the need for fans to go to games.

One other key point. Right now the games are on TSN and fans aren't paying extra for the access.

Well when I first got to Hong Kong, the English Premier League games weren't on PPV. Big shift in the second year in HK and China and fans were so angry they had ads on TV from people like Arsenal Manager Arsene Wenger telling how even in England they have to pay for games. It could go that way if it is just TV that is driving the revenues. The ads were strange but the protests were huge and fans were angry.


I see fans in seats as a health issue for the CFL much like the health of any person a certain condition might not be life threatening - if it's not taken care of - it could be.

To non CFL fans who love hockey or the NFL in Canada they use the fan issue (attendance) as one of the reasons to worship the NFL.

This board is starting to have posters tell the same stories I used to hear as a ST holder back in the late 90s. I bought two tickets and most games had to go alone despite no costs to friends (ticket free, parking paid for, etc). I couldn't give it away! Posters - I'm a fan but now can't get friends interested or I'm a fan but losing interest as it's not exciting.

[DanoT]

Find a way to blackout HDTV broadcasts and attendance will improve slightly.

[Ravi]

Harris using the Paredes argument that a blocked FG attempt is not a missed FG and Harris should appeal to the CFL as it was a botched play losing yards that did not reach the LOS and thus should not count - making him a 1000 yarder again...lol. Paredes should be embarrassed to claim that record for consecutive FGs.

I question the summer season in the CFL but that isn't going to change where even TSN gets caught saying the season doesn't begin until Labour Day.

We could always just count Paredes' post-season FGs from a year ago which would result in him easily getting that record anyway. One of the things that I hate the most is when people say that the season doesn't really begin until Labour Day. That is utter nonsense as we have seen teams more or less play their way out of a chance at the playoffs by Labour Day including this season's Bombers and Eskimos and the Argos of 2011. Wins in July and August are every bit as important as those in October.

[Ravi]

However the CFL is back in Ottawa for another shot at it. I'm not sure if that market is lousy or the city and the CFL cursed but this poses another risk to credibility which is already stretched with the Argos not able to draw great numbers despite this new regime with Barker (who has done a great job) and especially his choice of HC. Sure the Ray trade was key but I see some very good coaching there.

Ottawa has always had a solid base of 12k-13k fans but remember that this is a city that never had a winning regular season record after 1979 and had to put up with absolutely terrible ownership including the Gliebermans twice. The stadium was also neglected - anyone who went to games there could tell you all about that - and eventually half of it was condemned a couple of years after the Gliebermans drove the franchise into the ground for a second time. I guarantee you that the RedBlacks will be a success in that city with respected, local owners who are committed and have capital in what will be a jewel of a stadium.

As for Toronto, the problem is with SkyDome plain and simple (sorry, but I refuse to call it by its corporate name). Within the next few years, the Argos will be playing out of a renovated BMO Field under the ownership of MLSE. Things will get much better for that franchise at that point as they won't be playing on crummy dates and won't be getting the crap treatment from Rogers that they are currently getting (including very limited revenue streams from playing at SkyDome).

[sj-roc]

However the CFL is back in Ottawa for another shot at it. I'm not sure if that market is lousy or the city and the CFL cursed but this poses another risk to credibility which is already stretched with the Argos not able to draw great numbers despite this new regime with Barker (who has done a great job) and especially his choice of HC. Sure the Ray trade was key but I see some very good coaching there.

Ottawa has always had a solid base of 12k-13k fans but remember that this is a city that never had a winning regular season record after 1979 and had to put up with absolutely terrible ownership including the Gliebermans twice. The stadium was also neglected - anyone who went to games there could tell you all about that - and eventually half of it was condemned a couple of years after the Gliebermans drove the franchise into the ground for a second time. I guarantee you that the RedBlacks will be a success in that city with respected, local owners who are committed and have capital in what will be a jewel of a stadium.

As for Toronto, the problem is with SkyDome plain and simple (sorry, but I refuse to call it by its corporate name). Within the next few years, the Argos will be playing out of a renovated BMO Field under the ownership of MLSE. Things will get much better for that franchise at that point as they won't be playing on crummy dates and won't be getting the crap treatment from Rogers that they are currently getting (including very limited revenue streams from playing at SkyDome).

When you say "under the ownership of MLSE" do you mean you're anticipating they will buy the Argos from Braley and that under these circumstances the Argos would move to BMO (or do you mean merely that MLSE owns BMO Field and the Argos would/could move there anyway regardless of the ownership picture)?

If they're not buying, would the Argos be able to get a decent schedule playing second fiddle to a soccer team in their venue or would it just be more of the same? I'm assuming if MLSE were to own both the soccer and football teams then the Argos would get better (perhaps even equal or more) scheduling priority than at SkyDome.

[MexicoLionFan]

Agree with all your points David. Bottom line is the Lions have put themselves in a position with their ticket prices where the product has to be good and entertaining. Unlike say a "Nat Bailey" experience where the result is almost secondary. At least the family and patio sections are a start.
They did have a crappy schedule this year with no Friday night home games in the summer and no Saturday evening games in the fall (when the hell was the last time that happened?).
But can honestly say the Calgary first visit here was far and away the most entertaining game of the season. I'm throwing out the last two, especially against a disinterested Calgary team. The rest were hardly memorable.

So true Sammy...others may attempt to spin the numbers, but the fact remains, with this offence, and the comments that TSN and every other media outlet make about it, its going to be hard to break 30,000...sad, but the reality for now....

[Ravi]

However the CFL is back in Ottawa for another shot at it. I'm not sure if that market is lousy or the city and the CFL cursed but this poses another risk to credibility which is already stretched with the Argos not able to draw great numbers despite this new regime with Barker (who has done a great job) and especially his choice of HC. Sure the Ray trade was key but I see some very good coaching there.

Ottawa has always had a solid base of 12k-13k fans but remember that this is a city that never had a winning regular season record after 1979 and had to put up with absolutely terrible ownership including the Gliebermans twice. The stadium was also neglected - anyone who went to games there could tell you all about that - and eventually half of it was condemned a couple of years after the Gliebermans drove the franchise into the ground for a second time. I guarantee you that the RedBlacks will be a success in that city with respected, local owners who are committed and have capital in what will be a jewel of a stadium.

As for Toronto, the problem is with SkyDome plain and simple (sorry, but I refuse to call it by its corporate name). Within the next few years, the Argos will be playing out of a renovated BMO Field under the ownership of MLSE. Things will get much better for that franchise at that point as they won't be playing on crummy dates and won't be getting the crap treatment from Rogers that they are currently getting (including very limited revenue streams from playing at SkyDome).

When you say "under the ownership of MLSE" do you mean you're anticipating they will buy the Argos from Braley and that under these circumstances the Argos would move to BMO (or do you mean merely that MLSE owns BMO Field and the Argos would/could move there anyway regardless of the ownership picture)?

If they're not buying, would the Argos be able to get a decent schedule playing second fiddle to a soccer team in their venue or would it just be more of the same? I'm assuming if MLSE were to own both the soccer and football teams then the Argos would get better (perhaps even equal or more) scheduling priority than at SkyDome.

I am talking about MLSE buying the Argos. Their brash CEO, Tim Lieweke, has been saying that they will renovate BMO Field and make it suitable for the Argos. Braley is selling the team soon and the Argos playing at BMO really only makes sense for MLSE if they are also the owner. Things seem to be lining up perfectly for an MLSE-owned Argos playing at BMO Field.

[sj-roc]

I am talking about MLSE buying the Argos. Their brash CEO, Tim Lieweke, has been saying that they will renovate BMO Field and make it suitable for the Argos. Braley is selling the team soon and the Argos playing at BMO really only makes sense for MLSE if they are also the owner. Things seem to be lining up perfectly for an MLSE-owned Argos playing at BMO Field.

Thanks for the clarification. What's the mood with Argo fans over this potential sale to MLSE? I understand CEO TL has alienated some Leaf fans for his talk of, for example, getting rid of banners of past popular players in the Leafs' arena. Is there a feeling he could also rub Argo fans the wrong way?

[Ravi]

I am talking about MLSE buying the Argos. Their brash CEO, Tim Lieweke, has been saying that they will renovate BMO Field and make it suitable for the Argos. Braley is selling the team soon and the Argos playing at BMO really only makes sense for MLSE if they are also the owner. Things seem to be lining up perfectly for an MLSE-owned Argos playing at BMO Field.

Thanks for the clarification. What's the mood with Argo fans over this potential sale to MLSE? I understand CEO TL has alienated some Leaf fans for his talk of, for example, getting rid of banners of past popular players in the Leafs' arena. Is there a feeling he could also rub Argo fans the wrong way?

I would say that the reaction is mixed given MLSE's lack of success in building winning teams. However, there are a fair number of Argo fans who realize that being a "lone wolf" on the Toronto pro sports scene is probably not going to cut it long-term for the Argos so the only real option is to throw in with MLSE. It is hard to imagine that the Argos couldn't fill a 25k or so stadium to capacity every week with MLSE as owner. Also, MLSE would increase revenues from such things as merchandising. It just makes too much sense for this not to happen and the Argos, with the new TV deal kicking in next year and playing in a more suitable stadium, should be a decent money-maker for MLSE.

[MikeAK]

I didn't make it to a single game this season because the Lions have priced themselves out of my wanted price range. I do have to travel though so ther eis added cost to my attending games. Still though, I was a 5-6 games a year type of guy but now it just isn't in my desired range. I have to say that nothing beats going to the stadium and watching football live, but watching games on my 60 inch TV in HD has softened the blow. I wish the Lions would wake the hell up and come back down to reality with respects to ticket pricing.

[sj-roc]

I am talking about MLSE buying the Argos. Their brash CEO, Tim Lieweke, has been saying that they will renovate BMO Field and make it suitable for the Argos. Braley is selling the team soon and the Argos playing at BMO really only makes sense for MLSE if they are also the owner. Things seem to be lining up perfectly for an MLSE-owned Argos playing at BMO Field.

Thanks for the clarification. What's the mood with Argo fans over this potential sale to MLSE? I understand CEO TL has alienated some Leaf fans for his talk of, for example, getting rid of banners of past popular players in the Leafs' arena. Is there a feeling he could also rub Argo fans the wrong way?

I would say that the reaction is mixed given MLSE's lack of success in building winning teams. However, there are a fair number of Argo fans who realize that being a "lone wolf" on the Toronto pro sports scene is probably not going to cut it long-term for the Argos so the only real option is to throw in with MLSE. It is hard to imagine that the Argos couldn't fill a 25k or so stadium to capacity every week with MLSE as owner. Also, MLSE would increase revenues from such things as merchandising. It just makes too much sense for this not to happen and the Argos, with the new TV deal kicking in next year and playing in a more suitable stadium, should be a decent money-maker for MLSE.

It does seem status quo won't be sustainable for much longer in Argoland. But I wonder if BMO can be expanded for playoffs/Grey Cups, or would they try to arrange something with Rogers to lease SkyDome in this case.

[sj-roc]

I didn't make it to a single game this season because the Lions have priced themselves out of my wanted price range. I do have to travel though so ther eis added cost to my attending games. Still though, I was a 5-6 games a year type of guy but now it just isn't in my desired range. I have to say that nothing beats going to the stadium and watching football live, but watching games on my 60 inch TV in HD has softened the blow. I wish the Lions would wake the hell up and come back down to reality with respects to ticket pricing.

They had budget-priced ($25 family and $30 tailgate) sections this year in the upper deck; might be an option if they bring it back next year but travelling (from Vancouver Island?), having lived over there myself, is always a bigger factor at any almost any ticket price, esp mostly evening games that preclude same-day ferry return without missing the end of the game.