Ticket Prices / Lions' Marketing

[SammyGreene]

Random thoughts....

• 25,000: smallest crowd in BC Place since 2004 for a regular season game. Province Canuck beat writer Ben Kuzma (a big time Rider fan but also follows the CFL closely) tweeted it was an embarrassment. How does that happen as the defending champions in a world class renovated stadium? Oh yeah inflated ticket prices leading to a smaller season ticket base and walk-up crowd.

• Great night for Timmy Brown. Looking a whole lot like Stefan Logan with amazing lateral movement minus the top end speed.

* Lots of TSN turning points tonight but none bigger than Burris botched play on 2nd and inches leading to negative yards and a subsequent punt that was returned for a TD by Brown.

• Muamba looked god awful on the Walker TD. Looks like nothing more than a Canadian starter by default at this point of his career.

• Thank god Andrew Harris decided to come to BC be to play his junior football and didn't stay in Manitoba or even worse play for the Saskatoon Hilltops.

• Not the same push we saw from the d-line last season but Westerman is not going to contribute in the same way even an aging Brent Johnson did and Aaron Hunt was hardly mincemeat either.

• Fully expect to see an early season showdown between a couple of 2-0 teams when the Lions visit Mosiac at high noon next Saturday. Lions will have to play their best game of the season to stay on top of the West.

[Toppy Vann]

One thing about the end of both first halves at home. I'm surprised Coach Benevides doesn't take timeouts late in halves to pressure the other teams punt team. Why let them burn off 20 seconds? IIRC, Cortez took a timeout to stop us from doing the same thing in the first halve too. I just thought that end of the first half was a real knockdown for the Ticats. Any more chances to land in a couple more tough shots while your opponent seems to be wobbling, I say take them.

I always enjoy games where Burris struggles. It's only because I'm going to miss the guy when he retires from the CFL too. He just seems so hot or so cold at times. It will be good to watch the Ticats next game. They'll be 0-2 and not wanting to go any deeper in the hole. I think this recieving core let Burris down on a few throws but a lot of it seemed to be pressure and brainfarts from Burris.

In the stadium, I was kind of surprised to see the fumble stand as called, it wasn't until I saw a replay that it looked like the ball was coming out. That was a replay that I thought Cortez and his Ticats was going to win.

I enjoy high-scoring close games or low-scoring close games. The blowouts are fun to watch, I guess but the atmosphere changes. I was personally not at all surprised the Ticats kicked off late. It took a long late drive but it was just as impressive to me as a score. Eating all that time off the clock and maintaining a drive. It was an exciting way to cap off a game, IMO.

Some of the drawbacks? Obviously the streaker was funny. He seemed almost dissappointed he wasn't getting chased around. He actually hoped on the field out of the stairway between near 219, I think. There are times when it seems the Lions may be trying to hard on the Gameday Stuff. Like this is the third or fourth time the Lions have tried to ressurrect the BBBBB CCCCC chant with Crazy P. Maybe if you let the fans chant rather than screaming into a microphone, it might work? Sure isn't working how its being done. The repeated exaltations to "MAKE SOME NOISE" get a little tiring too. I don't think we are that dumb. Maybe so. Anyway, looking forward to the Esks, in a couple of weeks....

The streaker was trashed as they moved the cameras away. Seems that they might be doing this to dissuade the idiots. The noise over the mic always detracts in my view too.

I liked the end part of the game too and higher scores than titanic def. struggles.

If you looked at just Burris vs Lulay passing stats you'd have believed the Cats would have won. 359 to 178....but passing stats don't always equal scoring.

The Cortez challenge of the fumble looked bad on TV as Stala so clearly on the play was upended and the ball was flying out. He will be ripped for the way he was carrying the ball much like the Lions S will hear about how he shouldn't have tried to rip the ball from Chevon Walker rather than just make the tackle. The broadcasters said that Cortez missed a challenge last week and was trigger happy. I agree but the TV shot was so very clear without benefit of the replay. Down at the field it might not be clear.

The crowd numbers are a combo of three things - TV coverage, summer (season starts at Labour Day thinking we hear all the time) and now very likely - rising ticket prices. I am sure the Lions were mindful of that point at which prices deter fans but with the economy these days price increases are not a good thing with so many things rising all the time. The tickets are far less than the Canucks but with 40+ games it is either corporates and some sharing with friends but with just 9 games and playoffs that is less likely to be viable. It is sad but staying at home gives fans two games vs one and many will find that easier. It is ironic in that TV cover and panels, sideline reporters have so vastly improved to promote the CFL but at the same time now cut into the gate.

Bobby Ackles say it affected up to 3000 fans in the stadium.

Not sure what the Lions can do to boost the attendance. Montreal wasn't sold out apparently either.

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b

y Heathcliff » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:49 pm

Toppy Vann wrote:I think Rod Black said that Markeith Knowlton either did not start or did not play last week? Not sure what was said but if true he was sat last week .. wow.. what a surprise.


Here's an article from the Hamilton Spectator about the reasoning that went into the decision to sit Knowlton against the Riders

http://www.thespec.com/sports/article/7 ... iday-night

Thanks for the story. I had missed that and the logic of Eiben makes sense.

One funny moment in the game that the TV noted was Jamal Johnson going down by the Lions bench and Bill Reichelt the trainer asking him what was wrong only to get the reply that "I can't tell you." Reichelt had a big smile on his face as he was passing that along to someone.

[MikeAK]

You good gents have basically covered my thoughts as well. All in all I really enjoyed the game and so did those watching with me.

The thing that really bothered me the most was the crowd size looked terrible on TV. I don't even know how else to say it. It was pathetic. Very sad to see the best team in the league playing in the best stadium in the league to such a small crowd. To anyone who continues to think ticket prices don't play a major role in what is happening here I hope you are starting to see what many of us have been saying for a while now. The real good seats cost too much and the cheaper seats don't offer as good a view as what you get from a TV for free. I was listening to Farhan on team 1040 before the game yesterday and he said he doesn't think TV has anything to do with low crowds because TSN has been carrying the CFL in HD since 2008 and that didn't have an effect back then. Well, Farhan, You have to realize that back in 2008 probably only 30% of the public had an HDTV and even less then that had actual HDTV programming. I think it's safe to say the the amount of people who own an HDTV and HD programming has increased a great deal since 2008 and it's now a very real issue for the league. HDTV and ticket prices are going to keep BC Place empty all season long and until the Lions wake up and realize this it's not going to improve. The only thing they can do is either start blacking out home games or lower the ticket prices. It really bothers me to see the Lions playing in front of such a small crowd. The team and the CFL deserve better. It's a great league but the economy is tough on a lot of people right now and these current ticket prices are way too high. The same seats that cost me and my Fiance just over $100 just 5 years ago are now just under $190. That is insane.

[B.C.FAN]

Ticket prices and the prevalence of HDTV have an effect on attendance but the schedule has a lot to do with it.
1. Pre-Labour Day crowds are always smaller in B.C. The open roof might eventually attract more people to the stadium in summer.
2. Friday night games are bad for drawing commuters, families and out-of-town fans.
3. Hamilton is usually the worst draw of the season.
Put all those factors together and the crowd of 25,000 was actually pretty good, given that the season ticket base is reportedly around 20,000.

[MikeAK]

Ticket prices and the prevalence of HDTV have an effect on attendance but the schedule has a lot to do with it.
1. Pre-Labour Day crowds are always smaller in B.C. The open roof might eventually attract more people to the stadium in summer.
2. Friday night games are bad for drawing commuters, families and out-of-town fans.
3. Hamilton is usually the worst draw of the season.
Put all those factors together and the crowd of 25,000 was actually pretty good, given that the season ticket base is reportedly around 20,000.

All 3 of your bullet points are Valid. But too think that the crowds are going to increase to the 35k+ range come Sept is wishful thinking. I have a very strong feeling that we are going to be looking at this same issue come the fall. HDTV now offers a valid alternative and when faced with current ticket prices a lot of people are electing to stay home or get together with buds and watch it at the pub or game room. 25K is pathetic, I don;t care what time of year it is or who we are playing. If the prices were more reasonable this wouldn't be an issue. The fact that people have an HDTV alternative gives them reason to think twice about paying these prices.

[notahomer]

...I'm surprised Coach Benevides doesn't take timeouts late in halves to pressure the other teams punt team. Why let them burn off 20 seconds? IIRC, Cortez took a timeout to stop us from doing the same thing in the first halve too...

Know its dumb to quote oneself but.... I watched the replay on TSN2 until 4ish last night. I was frustrated in the stadium because Coach B. hadn't taken a timeout on 3rd down. When watching the replay I found out why. He took it the previous play after first down. I'm glad he wasn't just letting 20 seconds burn off the clock for no reason whatsoever....

As for the attendance numbers. I live in an apartment building that provides free cable so I haven't bothered to upgrade to HD. But I'm amazed at how many people in my building have have in spite of the extra cost. If cable wasn't free with the rent I'd get HD but I haven't bothered yet (and I'm on my second HD-ready TV!). So, I have no doubt that a lot of people have gone on to get HD since 2008. Especially if it means you get to watch your home teams games for free. I can't say I would have become a season ticket holder had I been able to watch the games at home before. Now that I am, I don't care, I want to see the game in the stadium but blackouts made me come get a season ticket package....

[pennw]

You good gents have basically covered my thoughts as well. All in all I really enjoyed the game and so did those watching with me.

The thing that really bothered me the most was the crowd size looked terrible on TV. I don't even know how else to say it. It was pathetic. Very sad to see the best team in the league playing in the best stadium in the league to such a small crowd. To anyone who continues to think ticket prices don't play a major role in what is happening here I hope you are starting to see what many of us have been saying for a while now. The real good seats cost too much and the cheaper seats don't offer as good a view as what you get from a TV for free. I was listening to Farhan on team 1040 before the game yesterday and he said he doesn't think TV has anything to do with low crowds because TSN has been carrying the CFL in HD since 2008 and that didn't have an effect back then. Well, Farhan, You have to realize that back in 2008 probably only 30% of the public had an HDTV and even less then that had actual HDTV programming. I think it's safe to say the the amount of people who own an HDTV and HD programming has increased a great deal since 2008 and it's now a very real issue for the league. HDTV and ticket prices are going to keep BC Place empty all season long and until the Lions wake up and realize this it's not going to improve. The only thing they can do is either start blacking out home games or lower the ticket prices. It really bothers me to see the Lions playing in front of such a small crowd. The team and the CFL deserve better. It's a great league but the economy is tough on a lot of people right now and these current ticket prices are way too high. The same seats that cost me and my Fiance just over $100 just 5 years ago are now just under $190. That is insane.

You are right about prices and HDTV . I want to go to the next game with my wife , as we were going to be in Van that weekend , but the wife saw the prices and really has second thoughts on forking over $200 for a game. Farhan is wrong, people are watching on their HDTV's now , as way more people have them . For those outside of the city the ordeal of getting there + prices is a huge turn-off . Both of those factors keep getting worse all the time too .
But this does mean the CFL should start getting better TV deals as crowds get smaller and the CFL should make TSN give them better deals , better coverage as in no more getting bumped out by foreign sports as CFL TV ratings are very good these days.

[MikeAK]

You good gents have basically covered my thoughts as well. All in all I really enjoyed the game and so did those watching with me.

The thing that really bothered me the most was the crowd size looked terrible on TV. I don't even know how else to say it. It was pathetic. Very sad to see the best team in the league playing in the best stadium in the league to such a small crowd. To anyone who continues to think ticket prices don't play a major role in what is happening here I hope you are starting to see what many of us have been saying for a while now. The real good seats cost too much and the cheaper seats don't offer as good a view as what you get from a TV for free. I was listening to Farhan on team 1040 before the game yesterday and he said he doesn't think TV has anything to do with low crowds because TSN has been carrying the CFL in HD since 2008 and that didn't have an effect back then. Well, Farhan, You have to realize that back in 2008 probably only 30% of the public had an HDTV and even less then that had actual HDTV programming. I think it's safe to say the the amount of people who own an HDTV and HD programming has increased a great deal since 2008 and it's now a very real issue for the league. HDTV and ticket prices are going to keep BC Place empty all season long and until the Lions wake up and realize this it's not going to improve. The only thing they can do is either start blacking out home games or lower the ticket prices. It really bothers me to see the Lions playing in front of such a small crowd. The team and the CFL deserve better. It's a great league but the economy is tough on a lot of people right now and these current ticket prices are way too high. The same seats that cost me and my Fiance just over $100 just 5 years ago are now just under $190. That is insane.

You are right about prices and HDTV . I want to go to the next game with my wife , as we were going to be in Van that weekend , but the wife saw the prices and really has second thoughts on forking over $200 for a game. Farhan is wrong, people are watching on their HDTV's now , as way more people have them . For those outside of the city the ordeal of getting there + prices is a huge turn-off . Both of those factors keep getting worse all the time too .
But this does mean the CFL should start getting better TV deals as crowds get smaller and the CFL should make TSN give them better deals , better coverage as in no more getting bumped out by foreign sports as CFL TV ratings are very good these days.

I hear you, man. Me and my Fiance were regulars just a few short years ago but current ticket prices are keeping us away unless it's an afternoon game. We live on Vancouver Island and now it just isn't a price we are willing to pay. The cost of the game tickets alone, in the sections we want to be in, now cost the same as they did with a hotel room 5 years ago. It's crazy.

[almo89]

You good gents have basically covered my thoughts as well. All in all I really enjoyed the game and so did those watching with me.

The thing that really bothered me the most was the crowd size looked terrible on TV. I don't even know how else to say it. It was pathetic. Very sad to see the best team in the league playing in the best stadium in the league to such a small crowd. To anyone who continues to think ticket prices don't play a major role in what is happening here I hope you are starting to see what many of us have been saying for a while now. The real good seats cost too much and the cheaper seats don't offer as good a view as what you get from a TV for free. I was listening to Farhan on team 1040 before the game yesterday and he said he doesn't think TV has anything to do with low crowds because TSN has been carrying the CFL in HD since 2008 and that didn't have an effect back then. Well, Farhan, You have to realize that back in 2008 probably only 30% of the public had an HDTV and even less then that had actual HDTV programming. I think it's safe to say the the amount of people who own an HDTV and HD programming has increased a great deal since 2008 and it's now a very real issue for the league. HDTV and ticket prices are going to keep BC Place empty all season long and until the Lions wake up and realize this it's not going to improve. The only thing they can do is either start blacking out home games or lower the ticket prices. It really bothers me to see the Lions playing in front of such a small crowd. The team and the CFL deserve better. It's a great league but the economy is tough on a lot of people right now and these current ticket prices are way too high. The same seats that cost me and my Fiance just over $100 just 5 years ago are now just under $190. That is insane.

You are right about prices and HDTV . I want to go to the next game with my wife , as we were going to be in Van that weekend , but the wife saw the prices and really has second thoughts on forking over $200 for a game. Farhan is wrong, people are watching on their HDTV's now , as way more people have them . For those outside of the city the ordeal of getting there + prices is a huge turn-off . Both of those factors keep getting worse all the time too .
But this does mean the CFL should start getting better TV deals as crowds get smaller and the CFL should make TSN give them better deals , better coverage as in no more getting bumped out by foreign sports as CFL TV ratings are very good these days.

The CFL should continue to work towards getting better TV deals. Better TV deals and coverage is good for the league. I think that the teams themselves have to work harder to reach out to fans to get them to come to the games. I think BC really dropped the ball when they thought the new stadium alone would sell itself. That's just a lazy way to approaching things. They can start why restructuring the upper bowl pricing. It's empty up there anyways, so you are better off making it more affordable. Right now to sit up there, it's either 65 or 85. Most "walk-up" fans just wouldn't fork that many out. They rather go to the bar or watch it at home in HDTV.

I use to go to 4-6 games a year, but I just can't afford it anymore.

[SammyGreene]

Ticket prices and the prevalence of HDTV have an effect on attendance but the schedule has a lot to do with it.
1. Pre-Labour Day crowds are always smaller in B.C. The open roof might eventually attract more people to the stadium in summer.
2. Friday night games are bad for drawing commuters, families and out-of-town fans.
3. Hamilton is usually the worst draw of the season.
Put all those factors together and the crowd of 25,000 was actually pretty good, given that the season ticket base is reportedly around 20,000.

All 3 of your bullet points are Valid. But too think that the crowds are going to increase to the 35k+ range come Sept is wishful thinking. I have a very strong feeling that we are going to be looking at this same issue come the fall. HDTV now offers a valid alternative and when faced with current ticket prices a lot of people are electing to stay home or get together with buds and watch it at the pub or game room. 25K is pathetic, I don;t care what time of year it is or who we are playing. If the prices were more reasonable this wouldn't be an issue. The fact that people have an HDTV alternative gives them reason to think twice about paying these prices.

The Lions early season attendance was front and centre on Tom Mayenknecht's The Sport Market show this morning on the TEAM 1040. He is a season ticket holder and was shocked at the size of last night's crowd, given the team's cup win/level of play and the renovated stadium. He has been saying all the things suggested here (high ticket prices — upper deck, corner end zone) but thinks blacking out games including HDTV would hurt the Lions overall exposure. Also thinks the inventory of tickets (54,000) is too large which really hurts the supply/demand factor.

The Vancouver Sun's Cam Tucker was discussing this with him and was told by Skulsky at training camp the Lions were expecting 40,000 to 45,000 for the home opener given the Grey Cup rematch and Geroy's record. Obviously they have misread the casual fan.

[MikeAK]

Ticket prices and the prevalence of HDTV have an effect on attendance but the schedule has a lot to do with it.
1. Pre-Labour Day crowds are always smaller in B.C. The open roof might eventually attract more people to the stadium in summer.
2. Friday night games are bad for drawing commuters, families and out-of-town fans.
3. Hamilton is usually the worst draw of the season.
Put all those factors together and the crowd of 25,000 was actually pretty good, given that the season ticket base is reportedly around 20,000.

All 3 of your bullet points are Valid. But too think that the crowds are going to increase to the 35k+ range come Sept is wishful thinking. I have a very strong feeling that we are going to be looking at this same issue come the fall. HDTV now offers a valid alternative and when faced with current ticket prices a lot of people are electing to stay home or get together with buds and watch it at the pub or game room. 25K is pathetic, I don;t care what time of year it is or who we are playing. If the prices were more reasonable this wouldn't be an issue. The fact that people have an HDTV alternative gives them reason to think twice about paying these prices.

The Lions early season attendance was front and centre on Tom Mayenknecht's The Sport Market show this morning on the TEAM 1040. He is a season ticket holder and was shocked at the size of last night's crowd, given the team's cup win/level of play and the renovated stadium. He has been saying all the things suggested here (high ticket prices — upper deck, corner end zone) but thinks blacking out games including HDTV would hurt the Lions overall exposure. Also thinks the inventory of tickets (54,000) is too large which really hurts the supply/demand factor.

The Vancouver Sun's Cam Tucker was discussing this with him and was told by Skulsky at training camp the Lions were expecting 40,000 to 45,000 for the home opener given the Grey Cup rematch and Geroy's record. Obviously they have misread the casual fan.

Yep. Caught the show as well. I think it's safe to say they have grossly overestimated the casual fan's interest in paying today's ticket prices. I agree that blackouts are not the answer as it will hurt exposure. The bottom line is ticket prices are way too high for the avg fan and HDTV now offers a legitimate alternative to going. The time of year, weather and opponent are valid arguments but have such a small factor in the larger picture. Two people use to be able to get in to a game for a $50 bill. Now it's $80 and change.... and those are garbage seats ,imo. That is enough to make people think twice.

[Centrum22]

The attendance has been atrocious and if this is not a wake-up call for the organization that they are doing something fundamentally wrong, then they are headed for a dark future. It is ironic that the Lions were honouring Ackles when it has become clear they have foolishly squandered all the gains made under the man's tenure (i.e., an average attendance of 35,000+ in 2008). That's a foundation that should have been built upon, not wasted.

That's no way to honour the man's legacy.

[TheLionKing]

HDTV and ticket prices are going to keep BC Place empty all season long and until the Lions wake up and realize this it's not going to improve. The only thing they can do is either start blacking out home games or lower the ticket prices. It really bothers me to see the Lions playing in front of such a small crowd. The team and the CFL deserve better. It's a great league but the economy is tough on a lot of people right now and these current ticket prices are way too high. The same seats that cost me and my Fiance just over $100 just 5 years ago are now just under $190. That is insane.

[MikeAK]

The attendance has been atrocious and if this is not a wake-up call for the organization that they are doing something wrong, then they are headed for a dark future. It is ironic that the Lions were honouring Ackles when it has become clear they have foolishly squandered all the gains made under the man's tenure (i.e., an average attendance of 35,000+ in 2008). That's no way to honour the man's legacy.

Just think how the attendance would look if we didn't have a championship caliber team.

[Centrum22]

The Vancouver Sun's Cam Tucker was discussing this with him and was told by Skulsky at training camp the Lions were expecting 40,000 to 45,000 for the home opener given the Grey Cup rematch and Geroy's record. Obviously they have misread the casual fan.

I remember in the lead-up to the inaugural game at the renovated BC Place, Dennis Skulsky was publicly stating that they expected 40,000-45,000 to be the new norm for regular season games.

No mass television advertising to market the team to casual fans and outrageous ticket prices. These guys are delusional.