Past BC Lions TRADES - Evaluate and Discuss - Good or Bad? (11 years later)

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SammyGreene
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TheLionKing wrote:
Blitz wrote:Best Trades

1. Getting Quick Parker to our Leos
2. Jim Young
3. Sean Millington

I would agree on James Parker and Jim Young. I'm not as high on Millington as alot of fans. Too many fumbles, drop passes and missed blocks.
But he did have a significant role in two of the Lions Grey Cup wins. How many former Lions can say that? First teamed in the backfield with Philpot, then with Drummond.

Also a two-time winner of the Most Outstanding Canadian Award (?97,00). Ten years in total as a Lion. I've wondered why he isn't on the ring of honour or even the wall of fame. When was the last time someone wore Diesel's #25?


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Hambone
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SammyGreene wrote:
Robbie wrote:In the middle of the 1985 season, Jacques Chapdelaine left the Lions to go to the Montreal Concordes. Does anybody know if he was released and then signed by Montreal, or was he traded to the Alouettes? If he was traded to the Alouettes, then who did the Lions receive in return and was it considered a good or bad trade?
Chaps was traded to Montreal for a 3rd round draft pick and unknown LB by the name of Ron Crick. He did little with the Concordes so the trade wasn't a factor either way.

BTW... the 1994 deal that brought Snipes, Chronopolous and Stewart to B.C. was for Jim Mills. Turned out to be a great deal for the Lions as Mills would soon after be forced to retire after lingering back problems from a car accident.
Nope. Snipes, Chronopolous and Stewart came to BC for NI DL Kent Warnock & BC's 2nd & 4th round picks in the 1995 CFL Draft. Ottawa would later flip the 2nd to Saskatchewan who took DL Brian Yorston. Ottawa picked LB Sean Marriott with the 4th round pick. Warnock was later dealt back to BC along with Dave Chaytors in exchange for Derek McCready and a 3rd round pick.

Mills went to Ottawa as a free agent. BC released him in February 1994. Ottawa signed him in June 1994. He would play 15 games for the Riders in 1994. Ottawa dealt him back to BC in September 1995 for Ricardo Washington. He'd play 2 games for BC in 1995 before calling it a career.


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Hambone
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SammyGreene wrote:
TheLionKing wrote:
Blitz wrote:Best Trades

1. Getting Quick Parker to our Leos
2. Jim Young
3. Sean Millington

I would agree on James Parker and Jim Young. I'm not as high on Millington as alot of fans. Too many fumbles, drop passes and missed blocks.
But he did have a significant role in two of the Lions Grey Cup wins. How many former Lions can say that? First teamed in the backfield with Philpot, then with Drummond.

Also a two-time winner of the Most Outstanding Canadian Award (?97,00). Ten years in total as a Lion. I've wondered why he isn't on the ring of honour or even the wall of fame. When was the last time someone wore Diesel's #25?
Keep in mind Millington played for the Argos in 2005. While he's been out of a Lion uniform since 2002 he's only been out of the league for a year. He was good but it's a bit too soon for such honours. As for the earlier comment about fumbles and missed blocks it seems to me blocking was a strength. Also he had only 17 fumbles in 1228 touches or a fumble for every 72 touches which isn't too shabby for a guy who made his mark by trying to run over or through defenders.


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SammyGreene
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Hambone wrote:Nope. Snipes, Chronopolous and Stewart came to BC for NI DL Kent Warnock & BC's 2nd & 4th round picks in the 1995 CFL Draft. Ottawa would later flip the 2nd to Saskatchewan who took DL Brian Yorston. Ottawa picked LB Sean Marriott with the 4th round pick. Warnock was later dealt back to BC along with Dave Chaytors in exchange for Derek McCready and a 3rd round pick.

Mills went to Ottawa as a free agent. BC released him in February 1994. Ottawa signed him in June 1994. He would play 15 games for the Riders in 1994. Ottawa dealt him back to BC in September 1995 for Ricardo Washington. He'd play 2 games for BC in 1995 before calling it a career.
Thanks for that... I was attempting to go off memory rather than look it up in an old CFL guide like I did for the Chapdelaine deal. :lol: I don't recall Warnock being much of a factor here at all.


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Hambone wrote:
OV - 54:40 wrote:James Parker was acquired along with a 2nd round draft pick from the Esks for a couple of young NIs - safety Laurent Deslauriers and linebacker Frank Blakovec (Lions' territorial exemption (UBC) and 1st round draft pick respectively in 84) at the start of TC in 84. Parker was a great rush end for the Lions; however - Deslauirers was an instant CFL star - all-Canadian safety for the Esks as a rookie and had 9 INTs in each of his first 2 CFL seasons; Balkovec was a decent player for the Esks too as i recall; not sure who the draft pick from the Esks turned out to be. Parker was a great addition to the Lions and an all-time CFL great for sure - not sure however, that giving up a guy who turned out to be one of the best safeties in the CFL made this such a steal.
Really all depends on a team's situation at the time. As the most feared rush-end of his era Parker had an immeasurable impact on the whole BC defence. He twice won the Schenley for Defensive Player of the Year while with BC. Back in 1984 BC was very deep in NI talent particularly on defence with the likes of Hebeler and Klassen on the DL, Jackson and Konar at OLB and Nelson Martin at safety. The key missing piece to what was already a solid defence was a player like Parker. With that sort of depth they could afford to move promising young NI talent. BC would've been a very tough lineup from rookies to crack back then. BC may have had to let Deslauriers and Balkovec go for nothing if they couldn't find a roster spot.

Deslauriers had a terrific start to his career with 18 picks in those first 2 years, 84 & 85. Unfortunately injuries would for all intents kill that early promise. He would play 9 games in 1986 then miss the 1987 season due to injury. He played 17 games for the Argos in 1988 and by the looks of things would be out of the game by 1989. Balkovec hung around for a few years, but never elevated his game beyond special teams and backup LB.

The 2nd rounder from Edmonton turned into UBC DB Bruce Barnett. Barnett would play for all season for BC in 1985 and 10 games in 1986. He was on their reserve list for 1987 and looks to have disappeared after that.

Deslauriers did have some promise. However any chance you have to acquire a proven impact player like Parker for a couple of prospects you have to do it. Keep in mind Parker already had a Schenley on his resume by then and was only 26 and just entering his prime. A no-brainer IMHO.
Wasn't meaning to say Parker wasn't a great pick-up, I was going more by the value in exchange - if you had to acquire an all-time great player but give up lots of other good players in exchange, then the trade has to be considered in terms of what's lost, just not what's gained. BC's thinkers at the time may have well thought they had enough "NI talent" to give up on a couple of young prospects, but I doubt they realized how good Deslauriers was; they did give up on a guy who turned out to be about the best safety in the CFL for awhile; if Deslauriers doesn't get hurt to prematurely end his career, this trade may be looked at differently in retrospect; Parker was a great addition - had some all-star seasons and helped win a GC for the Lions; a no-brainer - maybe, but hardly a steal when you had to give up one of the best defensive players, it turns out, in the league to get him; if Deslauriers doesn't start for that BC defence over Martin at the time, then somebody wasn't doing a good job evaluating players - Martin was good and might have been moved to d-half, but he was no Desluriers; if they had let either of those players given up go due to some supposed superb depth - well could be, or, their defensive coaches at the time might rate as clue-less.


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Robbie
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Hambone wrote:Snipes, Chronopolous and Stewart came to BC for NI DL Kent Warnock & BC's 2nd & 4th round picks in the 1995 CFL Draft.
Thanks for the clarification, Hambone. The details of the trade are confirmed in this article about the death of Denny Chronopoulos of a heart attack:

http://www.canoe.ca/FootballArchive/aug31_chr.html

I just reviewed my tape of the 1994 Grey Cup and I must say once again that this was one of the best trades the Lions ever made as all three played great in that all important game. Chronopoulos at guard made some key blocks for Philpot's and Millington's running game. And when the Lions were on defence, CBC showed several closeups of Angelo Snipes. It's as if though he was the Lions defensive captain in the game. Both Snipes and Stewart made key tackles on Mike Pringle in that game.

But I'd say the best contribution by Snipes and Stewart came late in the game with 2:54 to go and the score tied at 23. Baltimore scrimmaged after a punt return at good field position at their own 51-yard line and were in good shape to break tie. But on first down, Snipes broke through the defensive line and sacked Ham for a big 11-yard loss. Ham was also injured on that play. Then came in John Congemi on 2nd and 11 and he was also sacked for a big 9-yard loss by Andrew Stewart. So Baltimore ended up with a 20 yard loss in their series and had to punt from their own 31-yard line, which eventually led to the controversial McManus pass to Alexander and the last play heroics by Passaglia.
You always hate to see fan favourites go. However at the time I don't think "The Duck" had much left in the tank. He'd only play 4 games for the Argos before being released there.
Looking at the Lions draft history, they had two second round picks in the 1990 draft, so maybe the future considerations turned out to be a second round draft pick from the Toronto Argos. But that draft pick turned out to be for someone who never played for the Lions, RB Keith Kelly. So although Crawford was close to retiring, it was still a bad trade as the player the Lions ultimately received for him didn't replace him.


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Hambone
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Robbie wrote:
You always hate to see fan favourites go. However at the time I don't think "The Duck" had much left in the tank. He'd only play 4 games for the Argos before being released there.
Looking at the Lions draft history, they had two second round picks in the 1990 draft, so maybe the future considerations turned out to be a second round draft pick from the Toronto Argos. But that draft pick turned out to be for someone who never played for the Lions, RB Keith Kelly. So although Crawford was close to retiring, it was still a bad trade as the player the Lions ultimately received for him didn't replace him.
Again one hates to see a fan favourite exit the way Crawford did. Whatever future considerations BC was to receive may have been contingent on Crawford's performance in Toronto. Given Crawford's tenure with the Argos lasted all of 4 games they may have received nothing at all. If your suspicion about the draft pick is correct then I would call it a case of making a decent trade then undoing any potential benefit through bad drafting. That doesn't make it a bad trade, just poor drafting. To play devil's advocate from the Argos side they could well have been kicking themselves for giving up the pick for a guy they'd wind up cutting a month later. I don't recall the Lions' situation at the time of the trade personnel-wise with the secondary but it might have been a case of taking whatever they could get for "Duck" with the alternative being to cut him outright for nothing.


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Robbie
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In recent discussions on this thread, the point of Pavel Bure being disgruntled and wanting out of Vancouver was brought up:

http://www.lionbackers.com/cheer/viewto ... &start=240

Are there any BC Lions who were very unhappy with the team and requested a trade that was granted? If there are, what are some examples? Were any of the players mentioned so far in this thread traded because they were disgruntled with Lions management?

It looks like in the CFL, if a player is unhappy with a team then he will simply be released. But if there are any players who were traded away instead, please bring them up.


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Robbie
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This web page on 1995 CFL player salaries may explain why the Lions wanted to get rid of Kent Austin.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/1671/mar12b.html

At $427,500 a year and $205,000 in bonuses, Austin was the highest paid player in the CFL in 1995.


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sj-roc wrote:Kent was traded to the Argos after the 94 GC win (for Robert Gordon and Eddie Thomas)
Do you think that was a good or bad trade? I suppose it could be considered a good trade as far as settling the starting QB controversy and also, Austin seemed to be past his prime and didn't perform all that well in Toronto. But at the same time, the two players received for him had only minimal impacts.

As a wide receiver, Robert Gordon was okay in his 16 games but was lost to Winnipeg after just one season.
Image

As for cornerback Eddie Thomas, he played 23 games in 1997-98. So neither player received for Austin turned out to be long-term greats.

And in light of the recent media coverage on Khari Jones, do you think the Jones for Chris Perez deal was a good or bad trade? I can understand how Jones got no playing time in BC as a backup to DA and the trade to Winnipeg was a bright spot in his career. I'm just disappointed that Chris Perez decided to retire after just one year didn't turn out to be a great long-term lineman for the Lions.

According to this recent article on the trades that Winnipeg GM Brendan Taman has made, Winnipeg won that deal. And that same article states that BC's 4th round pick in 2000 was also part of the deal, and Winnipeg ended up drafting WR Markus Howell who had five good seasons with the Blue Bombers.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/CFL/ ... 34006.html

That page also lists several CFL trades involving the Lions, Blue Bombers, and other teams that I never knew about.


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WestCoastJoe
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Joe Kapp from Calgary to B.C. for 4 no-names.

That gave football liftoff in B.C. for the first time ever. Mix in Willie Fleming, Bill Munsey, Tom Brown, etc. and we had ourselves a football team.


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Robbie
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Joe Kapp from Calgary to B.C. for 4 no-names.
Yeah, that was already mentioned in my first post.


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WestCoastJoe
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Yeah, I saw it there.

So I decided to throw in my vote.

But you sure did put it in there first. :thup:

Joe Kapp for 4 no-names. That trade got my attention way back when. It was front page news in the local papers. The Lions fans were given some hope. And Joe delivered, with some help from some friends. Joe was the talk of the town.


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Robbie
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Lions trade Joe Smith for Charles Roberts. :cr:

I guess in a year from now, we can find out whether it was a good trade 8) or a bad trade. :x

I think it's always easier to judge a trade when the players involved are on the same position. When trading players from different positions, there's always a shade of apples to oranges. But by trading players from the same position, it would be much more of an apples to apples comparison that allows one to see which team got the better of the trade.

In the aforementioned historical trades, most of them did not involve players from the same position. That is why I often stated before that the trade by Danny Barrett for Kent Austin was one of the best ones the Lions have made. Given the fact that they involved both quarterbacks for an apples to apples comparison, I was able to easily gauge that Kent Austin served the Lions much better than Danny Barrett ever did.


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Robbie
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Robbie wrote:Allen went on to help the Argos beat the Lions in the 2004 Grey Cup with his MVP performance, and also won 2005 Most Outstanding Player while McKay-Loescher and Pierre-Louis have been slow to develop for the Lions. And McKay-Loescher was just lost a few days ago as a free agent to Hamilton. So unless he returns to the team sometime, it is unlikely he will become a superstar for the Lions like the superstar that was traded away for him.
Now that Nautyn McKay-Loescher has returned to the Lions, then maybe the Damon Allen for Nautyn McKay-Loescher trade might have been a great one after all.


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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