Bounty Hunting

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sj-roc
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WestCoastJoe wrote:IMO football is a contact sport gone too far. Personally I am more of a fan of running, throwing, catching, covering, blocking, and tackling than of pure contact, especially head shot contact.
There was a piece on Peyton Manning in The Onion last month before the Colts released him. Sure, it's meant to be humour, but frankly I thought it also had a serious side to it that speaks to WCJ's point above:
DOCTORS CLEAR PEYTON MANNING TO LET 300-POUND MEN SLAM HIM INTO THE GROUND AS HARD AS THEY CAN

INDIANAPOLIS — Sources confirmed Friday that Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning had been cleared by doctors to resume his career of being chased, clubbed, and thrown to the ground by 300-pound men, often with the 300-pound men falling on top of him. "So far as I can tell, Peyton has no reason to be concerned about returning to the most violent game that exists in our culture," Colts neurosurgeon Dr. Hank Feuer said of Manning, who had bones fused together in his spinal column in order to protect the nerves that provide him with basic motor function in all his extremities. "After a thorough medical evaluation, we can safely say that Manning is cleared to engage in an activity that could very feasibly result in his head being pulled backward by one of the world's strongest physical specimens, then subsequently slammed into a cold, unyielding surface." When asked Wednesday whether he had any trepidations about jeopardizing his future with his family for a few games in the twilight of an already Hall of Fame–worthy career, Manning said he was "just trying to focus on returning to football."
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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notahomer
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jcalhoun wrote: ...
The Saints' head coach is going to lose 7.5 million dollars in salary, and after sitting on the sidelines for a year and quite possibly causing long-term damage to the franchise, may lose both his job and the potential for ever getting another NFL coaching position. I doubt he'll ever make another morally questionable football decision again.
***
I've just read an interesting book called "Foul Play: What's Wrong With Sport" by Joe Humphreys.
Agreed with much of your post and thanks for the lead on the book, I love reading lots of books and this one looks juicy. I don't think Sean Payton will have any problem whatsoever getting another NFL coaching position. I'm not even sure this will be the end of his position with the Saints. The NFL is notorious at giving second chances and taking your lumps. When I see how Vick has overcome his issues, I doubt Payton will suffer long-term effects (save the loss of 7.5 million and a lost year of coaching).

Another interesting rumour has arisen. Apparently Jeremy Shockey may/may not have been the 'whistleblower' on this issue. Many times being a whistleblower takes more courage than many realize. I do find it surprising Shockey would know the ins/outs of this bounty program but Brees/Payton both claim not to (then again, I have not specifically heard Shockey make a claim). Regardless, I do think its now obvious the game has evolved and this will be the last of these programs. For e.g. I saw a rerun of an old Superbowl on the NFL network this morning. A quarterback got sacked and a flag flew for a late hit. No question whatsoever that is was a late hit by the rules now but obviously not then. The Dlineman picked up the flag and threw it at the Ref. So, no question things change. I can't imagine the kind of fines he'd get for doing something like that now. Don't doubt a bounty program would not have been that big a deal in that era of football. Then again, maybe not.
TheLionKing
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Wish Bobblehead Bettman learn from Roger Goodell
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notahomer
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Wow, the hammer came down on the players in Bountygate today which sadly was also the day Junior Seau committed suicide. Michael Irvin was obviously upset and he made a good point in linking these two issues, IMO. J Vilma of the Saints was suspended an entire season (2012) for his part in bountygate. Of course he denies all part of being in it. I do think there should be evidence to prove he was part of it but at the same time anything the NFL can do to protect both the physcial and mental health of their players is obviously something I am behind. I'll grumble a bit at the changes but when I really sit down and look at it, I don't want these players to be living brief lives simply for my enjoyment/entertainment. Football is my favourite professional sport to follow but I don't want the players (who obviously love the game even more than I do) to become victims of it.
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notahomer
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Strange comments made by Cris Carter, long time reciever for the Vikings. He admits to offering 'bounties' on players he thought were putting his safety at risk. Surprised he bothered to make the comments and wonder if this was more widespread in previous eras. Still don't know why he bothered as this does nothing to help him or his past team-mates.
TheLionKing
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Strange indeed. He just opened another can of worms
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WestCoastJoe
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notahomer wrote:Strange comments made by Cris Carter, long time reciever for the Vikings. He admits to offering 'bounties' on players he thought were putting his safety at risk. Surprised he bothered to make the comments and wonder if this was more widespread in previous eras. Still don't know why he bothered as this does nothing to help him or his past team-mates.
His emotions are running ahead of his brain. As in free fall, he is saying things he will regret later. He is no doubt speaking the truth though.

The NFL is facing huge legal issues from injured players. IMO eventually they will have to dial things down ... equipment, types of allowed hits, etc.
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notahomer
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This story takes another twist. Good on Vilma. Johnanthan Vilma has sued Commissioner Goodell in federal court claiming slander. In one way or anther real evidence will have to be provided and/or the penalties will be scrapped. Be interesting to see how this one plays out. How do you keep Sean Payton suspended if Vilma doesn't get proven guilty....? This is a black mark the NFL will be happy to have in our fading memories, A.S.A.P.

http://m.nfl.com/news/09000d5d8292dbb9/ ... 3-on-leno/
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notahomer
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Story on NFL's Total Access last night claims that the NFL is in possession of a 'ledger' offering $1000 and $400 bounties plus $100 penalties. Injuries that led to a player being put on injured reserve were marked with an exclamation mark.

Liked Hof Famer Jim Brown's take on all of this. Paraphrasing, Brown feels most teams have dirty players but dirty players are a small minority. Get rid of the dirty play and problem solved. Don't know how/when this gets enforced but I'll give Brown credit. You figure that even if he knew a team and/or particular players had bounties on injuring him, he'd only care if the play was dirty. Probably because if it wasn't dirty, he wasn't getting injured, I'm guessing. Sure have to be a banger to take him on. I'd loved to have seen Sol E. try to take on a Jim Brown in his prime. Both would probably wake up sore the day after, for sure....
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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.tsn.ca/nfl/story/?id=397583
NEW YORK -- An arbitrator ruled Monday that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell has the authority to discipline New Orleans Saints players for their role in a bounty system.

The NFL Players Association challenged Goodell's power to impose penalties for what the league says was a three-year bounty program that targeted specific players. Stephen Burbank, a University of Pennsylvania law professor, took only five days to determine that Goodell has the power to punish the players under the collective bargaining agreement reached last August to end the lockout.
Arbitrator rules that Goodell has the authority to suspend these people. :thup:
Goodell suspended Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma for the entire 2012 season and teammate Will Smith for four games. Former Saints defensive end Anthony Hargrove, now with Green Bay, was suspended for eight games, while linebacker Scott Fujita, now with Cleveland, was docked three games.

Those players have appealed the suspensions. And the players' union later Monday said it will appeal Burbank's decision because it believes salary cap violations are involved in the payment. That would give Burbank the authority to rule on penalizing any players involved.

Burbank did, however, retain temporary jurisdiction on Hargrove's role and asked Goodell for more information on Hargrove's "alleged participation."

Burbank "invited the commissioner to clarify the precise basis for his discipline of Mr. Hargrove who, among other things, was found to have lied to the league's investigators and obstructed their investigation," the NFL said in a statement.
Vilma should sue his own team and coach for putting the bait in front of him. He is not doing himself any favours with this lawsuit IMO.
The union said in a statement it "believes that the players are entitled to neutral arbitration of these issues under the CBA and will continue to fight for that principle and to protect the fair due process rights of all players." The NFLPA noted Burbank wrote that "nothing in this opinion is intended to convey a view about the underlying facts or the appropriateness of the discipline imposed."

The union filed another grievance with a different arbitrator, Shyam Das, contending the new CBA prohibits Goodell from punishing players for any conduct before the CBA was signed. The league's investigation showed the bounty program ran from 2009-11.

Das has yet to rule on that grievance, which also seeks to have player appeals heard by Art Shell and Ted Cottrell, who are jointly appointed by the league and union to review discipline handed out for on-field conduct.
The league and union have spent plenty of time before arbitrators and judges this off-season, with two other major cases pending.

Vilma has sued Goodell for defamation in a U.S. District Court in New Orleans and Goodell has been given until July 5 to respond to the action.

The players also have sued the league in U.S. District Court in Minnesota, saying the owners colluded in the uncapped 2010 season to have a secret salary cap. NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith has said such collusion could have cost players $1 billion in wages.

That lawsuit stems, in part, from the NFL stripping the Washington Redskins and Dallas Cowboys of salary cap room in 2012 and '13. The Redskins had their cap reduced $36 million over the two years and the Cowboys lost $10 million in cap space.

Both teams filed a grievance and lost.
Redskins and Cowboys lose cap space. LOL ... The two most despised owners in sports. Daniel Snyder and Jerry Jones. Both would seem to have cheated. LOL

Snyder has tried repeatedly to buy success in the NFL without getting any. He buys expensive players who then underachieve. Guys like Albert Haynesworth. Jerry Jones does not yet recognize that Jimmy Johnson earned the Cowboys those championships years ago. Jones then apponted himself GM. LOL
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notahomer
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I agree with your take on Jerry Jones, WCJ. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.... :cool:

The bounty stuff I'm all over the map on. I'm glad the stand Goodell has taken, its clear and he's holding the players, coaches and teams accountable. I almost think he's been too tough on Payton and some of the players. That being said, perhaps he has evidence that will make me feel his fines/punishments have been light.....

I like Jim Brown's comments the other day. Dirty play is what the NFL and other leagues need to eliminate. Of course what is 'dirty play'? Depends on who you are talking with and who had just done the hitting....
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KnowItAll
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speaking of bounty hunting, I am not the kind to kiss and tell, but I have been seen with farrah.
Every day that passes is one you can't get back
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notahomer
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KnowItAll wrote:speaking of bounty hunting, I am not the kind to kiss and tell, but I have been seen with farrah.
was that bounty hunting or booty hunting?!?!
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notahomer
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I know its not good to look soft but I think Goodell has to backtrack on this. Why suspend just a few players (including Vilma for a full season) and others get nothing? I'm all for the NFL nailing the Saints via draft picks, suspending the Coaches (the actual people in power) etc.... But the players themselves I feel deserve a little slack BUT IF THEY DON'T, suspend them all. Just making an example of a few? I know if I was going to be suspended for a year from a job where my career averages less than 4 years, whomever is suspending me had better have IRONCLAD evidence. I'm glad Vilma seems to be taking this on because its gonna force the NFL to release all the evidence and/or back away. The real winners I think are the future players. No Coach will get away with asking his players to do this and the league itself is looking a little stronger on the fact it may care about the long term health of the players. Whether they do or not is moot, at least IMO, they look like they care....
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notahomer
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NFL dismisses all four appeals, now lawsuits have been filed in federal court. Shows the difference between Coaches and Players. There was an appeal (by Sean Payton) but he seems to accepted his part. Players have much shorter careers and it will shorten their career earnings. Also, I'd be pretty choked (even if I particpated in such a program, and I wouldn't) if other players got off scot free while I'm sitting out games. Also, that proof better be iron-clad....
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