2016 Training Camp Thread

[pennw]

One might think that all will be well. And it might. But we seem to have been down this road a number of times in the past. Sigh ...

And if we switch back now to "normal" positions? Ughh ... more uncertainty and confusion.

As noted, O Line will be key to our success. One can still have hopes.

"It's a bit different. I think they're just trying to go with the biggest offensive line possible."

That does not sound like the athlete understands the switch. And trying to go with the biggest O Line possible is hardly a sound philosophy, if that is the plan. If one guy is 300 pounds and the next guy is 325 pounds the difference is irrelevant it seems to me. They are both hogs, and they are both big enough.

It is a concern. We will see.

It really is a shame we couldn't of had continuity and kept Malone as OL coach . It seemed last season we finally turned the corner on the Oline and now it's all blown up with the return of Dorazio . The first sign was the release of Draheim for no apparent reason other than he wasn't 325lbs like the guy Dorazio brought in . They cut him after a good season just to bring in a bunch of other unknowns with out even letting him compete. Now will confusion become the norm again ? Draheim may have been "only" 300 lbs but he could move and held his own against any one. It sure would have made so much more sense to have kept the two OTs in we had last season in the same spots .There's a saying "if it ain't broke , don't fix it "

At least we have no OL out for the season yet . Wally did comment about easing into things as opposed to flying into things , a good thing . Maybe Dan got the memo too. No need for 22 guys on the OL if things are done right .
I guess we will see if DD can be successful as OL coach this year , he has all the guys he needs as we have enough Nationals to front an all Non import Offensive Line now .

[David]

And trying to go with the biggest O Line possible is hardly a sound philosophy, if that is the plan. If one guy is 300 pounds and the next guy is 325 pounds the difference is irrelevant it seems to me. They are both hogs, and they are both big enough.

If size were the over-riding criteria, then Patrick Kabongo's bronze bust would have been on display in Hamilton two years ago.

I am not overly concerned that the fireworks were after the controlled scrimmage....and a popgun offense was on display during the game.

First, we've installed a new offense, lots of new players (and players playing new positions). I would expect it's going to take time to gel and QBs and receivers need more reps to get their timing down. It's not uncommon for defenses to be quite far ahead of offenses at this point. I also think we've got a top-notch defense this year - we've upgraded our defensive line, have a stud linebacking corps that fly around the ball, and really good depth in the secondary with a lot of first year Lions pushing the vets.

I don't quite get the "O-line shuffle," but willing to give Dorazio the benefit of the doubt 'til we see it on display for real.


DH

[TheLionKing]

This would be a shocker if what LU suggests is true.

Lowell Ullrich ‏@FifthQtr 1m1 minute ago
WR Lavelle Hawkins in street clothes at #BCLions practice; retirement may be in future. One of the last players from Tedford era #cfltc

Lowell Ullrich ‏@FifthQtr 20m20 minutes ago
Lavelle Hawkins confirms he plans to retire: 'I just didn't feel the spark' Door opens for rookie Kendrick Ings #CFC #BCLions

I thought Hawkins was one of the best offensive players in camp this year. Fortunately, Terence Jeffers-Harris is a fully capable replacement.

It's official. Hawkins retired

http://www.bclions.com/2016/06/06/wally ... o-move-on/

[DanoT]

Is that The Pauser at 1:08 in the Fan Fest video?
http://www.bclions.com/2016/06/05/bc-li ... fest-2016/

[maxlion]

It was a breath of fresh air to see us near the top of the league in fewest sacks allowed last year. Hard to understand all of the changes this year. If the OL doesn't perform, Wally will have some explaining to do!

Losing Hawkins is a big loss. He was excellent last year and it seemed he could only be better with a year in the CFL under his belt. Will be interesting to see who if anyone can step up. Boldewijn or Jeffers-Harris?

[Qman]

It was a breath of fresh air to see us near the top of the league in fewest sacks allowed last year. Hard to understand all of the changes this year. If the OL doesn't perform, Wally will have some explaining to do!

Losing Hawkins is a big loss. He was excellent last year and it seemed he could only be better with a year in the CFL under his belt. Will be interesting to see who if anyone can step up. Boldewijn or Jeffers-Harris?

if jeffers-harris makes the 46, our receiving corp will be the worst in the league .. again

[David]

It's official. Hawkins retired

I wish Hawkins nothing but the best, I really do. But this sudden retirement has really put the club in a bind. You can bet Rigmaiden and McEvoy will be working the phones looking for a veteran (read: NFL experienced) receiver - maybe someone playing Arena football, but most experienced players are likely already under contract and/or committed for the upcoming season.

Could Lavelle not have decided this 2-3 months ago when he was training for the upcoming season? It all just seems a little odd. He worked his a$$ off last season to come back from a broken arm and made some serious progress. And now suddenly the spark is no longer there??

His response/reasoning today was almost word-for-word what his former roommate Austin Collie said when he retired.


DH

[CardiacKid]

There has been recently, what seems in my mind, an inordinate amount of retirements across the league. Hawkins and Collie in BC, Picard and Coleman in Montreal, Boulay, Corby and Robinson in Edmonton, Brown in Toronto, Henderson, Hefney, Reese and Jernigan in Winnipeg, Johnson in Saskatchewan and Dunn in Ottawa.

No means of quantifying if the above numbers are any different than previous years; the motivation for all the above must obviously vary but I wonder if there is a common thread. Simply not enough $ to play CFL football, they can earn waaaay better money doing something else or maybe the fear of being debilitated or crippled from concussions or other injuries is really hitting home with players.

Regardless, the timing of them must drive teams crazy. Wally stated he was anticipating that once Collie retired Hawkins might be next so hopefully Plan B for the receiving corps is already on speed dial.

[DanoT]

The CFL has a new drug policy so some of the early retirements around the league could be due to a player's past use of banned substances.

[WestCoastJoe]

That is a big loss. He could flat out play. Instant production.

So where does that leave our offence?

Receiving corps missing a big cog. Lots of inexperienced players in the group.

Andrew Harris in Winnipeg. Veteran imports to take his place.

O Line in some kind of makeover, players pretty much all in new positions. Different coach than last year, but a returning coach.

And, it seems to this fan that Khari Jones is not really proven as an OC.

Lots of changes. Too many changes? Some concerns for sure. Hopefully things work out for us.

[WestCoastJoe]

From Lowell Ullrich ...

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040- ... s-1.502413

Money was indirectly an issue, however, as Hawkins began to question whether the stipend paid to a CFL receiver was worth the physical toll. He was with the first unit through almost every drill in training camp. But he said he knew it was over for him when the Lions played their scrimmage game Saturday before the first sizeable crowd of training camp and he felt nothing.

As such, returning offensive coordinator Khari Jones designed portions of his scheme around what the Lions hoped Hawkins could provide this year, which is why Buono did not try to minimize the blow his team has just taken. He’ll be the third change among ball-carrying starters. It also means the Lions will have no fewer than nine offensive starters in different positions from the team that played the West Division semifinal.

[Sir Purrcival]

As much as I am sad that Hawkins won't be back, I am less concerned about his loss that I would be some positions. His open field running will be sorely missed but receiver is one of the easier positions to fill. May not be quite the same quality but serviceable shouldn't be too hard to achieve.

[Hambone]

Let's see. In 2015 BC finished 6th in passing yards and 8th in rushing yards and folks are questioning the number of changes???

While I'm disappointed in the loss of Hawkins I'm not lamenting it. Until that happened I was left wondering how BC was going to find room to not just keep some of the good young talent but how they would get them onto the field. The addition of Moore locks him and Arceneaux into to the slot positions leaving Boldewijn, Jeffers-Harris, Ings, Burnham, Nwachukwu among others fighting for Hawkins' spot and backup positions. Boldewijn is definitely intriguing. Burnham is a known commodity amongst Lion faithful. Jeffers-Harris looked very good in camp last year and again this year. This past few days Ings displayed the speed and other characteristics that seem to backup the comments made by Buono and others going back to mini-camp. He was also getting reps as a returner. Nwachukwu also looked good while I was there. Had Hawkins not retired these guys would've been fighting over what likely would be 2 spots on the 46.

As for the OL the changes started with a need to get another NAT starter to change the ratio from 3 INT/2 NAT to 2 INT/3 NAT. This led to the deal for O'Neill. It secured the ratio change but didn't preclude the club from trying to see if they couldn't still get bigger and younger amongst the middle of the line hence trying Husband at C. Over his career O'Neill has played a lot of guard in addition to centre. In that regard he may be more valuable to the club as that veteran who can be relied on to backup all 3 of the middle OL positions should injury occur in the middle of a game. I'm fully supportive of the move of Olafioye from RT to LT having wondered why that hasn't happened sooner. JO earned the CFL West All-Star award as a rookie in 2010 playing mostly LT. He's been a CFL West and All-CFL All-Star at RT every year since then. It's not outside of the realm of possibilities that the best LT in the CFL over the past half decade may have been residing at the opposite end of the BC OL. The rest of the shuffles have been like domino effect. They needed to get Steward back into the starting mix. Without a natural NAT backup LT shifting him one spot over to LG adds up. He stays on the same side of the line and could easily slide out to LT should something happen to JO. It does displace Fabien but with Valli's retirement and Husband moving to C there was an opening at RG, a position Fabien played, and played quite well, as a rookie before blowing his knee. Adcock who is a natural RT followed Dorazio from Saskatchwan to fill the void left by the Olafioye shuffle. So count me as believing there's a lot more method than madness to the OL shuffle.

[WestCoastJoe]

It was a breath of fresh air to see us near the top of the league in fewest sacks allowed last year. Hard to understand all of the changes this year. If the OL doesn't perform, Wally will have some explaining to do!

Losing Hawkins is a big loss. He was excellent last year and it seemed he could only be better with a year in the CFL under his belt. Will be interesting to see who if anyone can step up. Boldewijn or Jeffers-Harris?

Arceneaux, Moore, Burnham. Pretty good receivers. We should be OK.

RB should be OK as an International position.

QB should be good, maybe very good, maybe excellent. We don't know yet.

O Line? Dunno. But it seems to this fan that OL, of all the positions, needs some continuity, some familiarity for the players. There is a lot of stuff in their heads, of necessity, and the need is to make all the actions automatic, not an easy thing to achieve. It will come down to pass protection and run blocking. I don't think it is an overreaction for some fans to be concerned. Could everything turn out fine? Sure. LOL No panic. Ummm ... How many look out blocks will we see? Oops, missed him, look out, Jon. How many walls against the run game will we see? Still hoping for good results.

It also means the Lions will have no fewer than nine offensive starters in different positions from the team that played the West Division semifinal. -- Lowell Ullrich

No matter how you slice it, that is a lot. Necessity? Some of it. Other changes seem more discretionary, even experimental, as Wally has said.

Defence? Lots of good stuff in place. Lots of good people in place. We will see about the philosophy, but one expects something of a conservative, contain type of approach. Lots of zone. Not as much blitzing as an aggressive approach.

Just IMO ...

[CardiacKid]

So count me as believing there's a lot more method than madness to the OL shuffle.

But if you are a worry-wart like me, you tend to fret

I guess the thing I found the most worrisome in BC Fan's excellent post summing up training camp was the less than definitive response from a member of the O-line who seemed somewhat unsure as to what the ultimate goal was for the O-line. Of course one statement by one player is not going to sum up the entirety of the situation.

I really like the individual talent on hand and the potential mix of veterans and youth on the line but I really do hope it becomes "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" sooner rather than later. I really believe time is of the essence for the team this year both in terms of making hay for getting into the post-season but also solidifying and building the fan base. The Canucks have been in the doldrums for what seems an age, the Whitecaps are mid-table and not really making any positive noise; strike while the iron is hot I say to the Lions!

Of course, easier said than done.

But thanks Hambone for keeping a positive, even keel.