Negotiating Rights question?

[Belize City Lion]

How does it work when a team holds the negotiating rights to a player, yet seems uninterested in that player when he is available. For example what if Tim Tebow wanted to play in the CFL but Montreal was not interested in signing him. Sure they could trade his rights, but what if (hypothetically) the only team that was interested was Hamilton. Montreal could say "heck no, we are not giving you the rights to a QB when we are in a dog fight for first place and you are down to your 3rd and 4th string guys". Can Montreal just force a guy to languish on their neg list or is there a rule that says a neg list player has the right to get off that team's neg list and become a free agent if there is clearly no intent to sign him?

[WestCoastJoe]

Interesting contract question, and "reserve clause" question.

IMO it is more of a gentleman's agreement amongst the CFL teams.

If a player wanted to fight it, I expect the teams would work something out. Not worth having the entire concept thrown out in court as restricting a player's freedom, when that player has never signed a contract.

In a stricter sense, more supportive of the CFL teams interest, it might be considered along the lines of the draft.

I don't see it as being an issue whereby a player is fighting for the freedom to sign with Montreal, for example. The Commish would urge the teams to trade the rights, and the price would not be high, it seems to me.

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The list has been kind of secretive. It is getting more into the light of day now.

Teams do bring their guys to tryout camps, in most cases, and should have some preferential rights to them, in my opinion.

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Would the player fight if he did not want to play for B.C., but was on their neg list? Nah. He would just sign if offered a contract.

Would the Alouettes fight for the right to sign a player they wanted, but happened to be on B.C.'s neg list? Nah, they would deal for it. 4th round draft pick, et cetera.

I think these players, hoping for a chance at pro football, would be happy to get an invite to any CFL team's Training Camp, and would be pleased to be on a CFL neg list.
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And of course being on a neg list, does not prevent a player from dealing with an NFL team. Unless they sign with the CFL team.

Just IMO ...

[peeby]

https://cfldb.ca/faq/rosters/

There is a section on negotiating lists at that URL. My take after reading it is that if a Tim Tebow type wanted to try the CFL, his agent would find that he is on the MTL list. The agent would then request a contract offer from MTL. If he did not receive a fair contract offer in 10 days, he could try other teams as MTL would have to remove him from the list. Maybe another team would quickly add him? If MTL did offer a fair contract and the player in question really didn't want to go to MTL, then he might be out of luck unless MTL traded his rights. Out of luck for a year. Suspect teams would not necessarily hold someone back from going to another CFL team, but rather trade their rights for something tangible or even a guy off another team's list. Think I've heard of that.

Concerning Tebow himself, he's not done with the NFL. Even if he was, it's difficult to see him in the CFL. His throwing style is odd and he apparently has difficulty with his reads. Considering the size of the CFL field and the number guys in motion, I'm not sure he's what we're looking for up here.

[Rammer]

If a player wanted to seek the CFL, he would first find out who had his rights (Tebow with Montreal) in this case. Montreal would have to ablige Tebow and then would have two weeks to try him out ( difficult for QB's), or release Tebow from their neg list and he becomes a FA. Montreal could trade his rights up to the point of Tebow applying to play in the CFL, or during his tryout period, but after his application he forces the Als hands. The Als could give him a playbook and compensate him to return for next year's TC, but he would have to clear waivers. Tebow may be an interesting commodity given all the starting QB injuries and would likely be picked up IMO.

Lions have slide some QB's through that looked promising by giving them some compensation. iIRC JJ was one, but QB's in 2015 can now reach the expanded rosters so a club will just hold him there.

[Hambone]

Peeby sums it up correctly. Once the player approaches the team holding his rights expressing a desire to play the team has 10 days to make what is deemed a fair offer. If they don't they must remove his name from their neg list.

[TheLionKing]

In a lot of cases, the player doesn't even know that he is on a particular team's negiotation list.

[Blue In BC]

Who decides what a fair value might be?

[Rammer]

Who decides what a fair value might be?

That is what is determined between the club and the player agent.

[Blue In BC]

Who decides what a fair value might be?

That is what is determined between the club and the player agent.

That's not quite the point. Let's say a given player on the neg list decides to come to the CFL. The team holding his rights offer him $80K but the player says he wants $1M. Obviously the CFL team won't pay that.

So how long can negotiations continue before he must be released as a free agent again. Couldn't a player ask for an excessive amount forcing himself to be released only then to sign for the team of his choice?

Hence my question about what is a fair offer and time limitations. This could work the other way I suppose where a player is worth more where the team offers minimum CFL salary while the player wants $100K.

There has to be more to it than " sign here please ". If you extend this question I wonder if there are parameters for CFL draft choices.

[WestCoastJoe]

IMO ...

"fair" = ballpark. Not extreme lowball.

All teams will view the player roughly the same in terms of contract, it would seem.

I also think it would only be with a "name" player, such as Tebow, where a conflict might arise. If he wanted to go to Montreal and the Lions had his rights, etc.

The team with the rights might want to extract from the other team significant draft choices, et cetera.

Fair offer. He either signs, or is cut loose, or a trade is arranged.
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This certainly had not been a problem from what I can see.

Since it is coming under more scrutiny with media and fan awareness we may eventually see new developments.

I think the system is justifiable by the CFL. The teams do tend to work cooperatively for the most part, it seems to me.

We are not talking about marquee players, for the most part.

[Blue In BC]

IMO ...

"fair" = ballpark. Not extreme lowball.

All teams will view the player roughly the same in terms of contract, it would seem.

I also think it would only be with a "name" player, such as Tebow, where a conflict might arise. If he wanted to go to Montreal and the Lions had his rights, etc.

The team with the rights might want to extract from the other team significant draft choices, et cetera.

Fair offer. He either signs, or is cut loose, or a trade is arranged.
...........

This certainly had not been a problem from what I can see.

Since it is coming under more scrutiny with media and fan awareness we may eventually see new developments.

I think the system is justifiable by the CFL. The teams do tend to work cooperatively for the most part, it seems to me.

We are not talking about marquee players, for the most part.

I think it still leaves some very grey area. If for any reason a player simply doesn't want to play in a given city, he could ask for more than is fair in the eyes of the team. It's a way of forcing an issue. At what point does something break.

Use Tebow as an example. No idea of what a fair contract would be worth. For arguments sake lt's say a CFL team perceives $100K. Peanuts to an ex NFL salary. So let's say he'd rather be closer to home or in a city that MIGHT see a backup QB hit the field sooner than later than another city. IE: Montreal as opposed to Calgary for example.

A player such as Tebow would be more interested in an opportunity to play and possible encourage more NFL interest than he would in an actual CFL salary. He could say he wants $150K which could be more than a team holding his rights would be willing to pay.

This is not to suggest that if he was released from a neg list that he doesn't sign elsewhere more to his preference at the original $100K.

[Hambone]

Who decides what a fair value might be?

That is what is determined between the club and the player agent.

That's not quite the point. Let's say a given player on the neg list decides to come to the CFL. The team holding his rights offer him $80K but the player says he wants $1M. Obviously the CFL team won't pay that.

So how long can negotiations continue before he must be released as a free agent again. Couldn't a player ask for an excessive amount forcing himself to be released only then to sign for the team of his choice?

Hence my question about what is a fair offer and time limitations. This could work the other way I suppose where a player is worth more where the team offers minimum CFL salary while the player wants $100K.

There has to be more to it than " sign here please ". If you extend this question I wonder if there are parameters for CFL draft choices.

According to league by-laws there are 3 scenarios that cover your questions Dale for when the player approaches the club expressing an interest in playing:

1) If the club choses not to offer a contract the players name must be removed from their neg list within 10 days.
2) If the Commissioner deems the offer to be reasonable and the player rejects it the club has 365 days to remove the player's name from the neg list.
3) If the Commissioner deems the offer to be unreasonable the club must remove the player's name from the neg list immediately.

2) I think covers your main question. If the club has offered a reasonable contract and the player wants a ridiculous amount the club is under no obligation to negotiate further or remove his name from the neg list for up to a year. What determines reasonable in the eyes of the Commissioner? Well with literally hundreds of first-time CFL contracts signed over the past half dozen years the Commissioner has plenty of precedents to rely on. He probably has literally a "cheat sheet" of rolling average salaries by position for players signing their first CFL deal that he can reference.

One other note: When a club removes a player's name from their neg list 96 hours must pass before that club can re-add the player's name to their neg list. The club can't simply drop the name in the morning and put it back on in the afternoon. The name is out there for the other 8 member clubs to go after. Normal waiver procedures apply.

[WestCoastJoe]

When in doubt refer to the contract. Good topic. Of interest to serious CFL fans.

"the mysterious negotiation list"

Sensible for the teams to use this system.

Not damaging to a player's rights, within reason.

Ya wanna play in the CFL? Here is what you have to do.
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How many can be on the list?

Must be enough to allow organizing all the tryout camps, without screwing up the plans of the teams.

QBs obviously would be the key part of the lists.

[Blue In BC]

Yes items 2 and 3 clarify the " reasonable offer " question. Thanks for the feedback.