Ottawa Expansion Draft, RedBlacks take DeMarco and Glenn

[WestCoastJoe]

Bo Levi Mitchell

Drew Willy

Zach Collaros

Drew Tate (injured a lot)

Mike Reilly

After what seemed to me like years of recycled QBs, Burris, Glenn, Pierce, or ancient as with Calvillo, it seems we now have a number of very promising young pivots in the CFL.

Cool ...

Mitchell or Collaros might not look anywhere near as good in Ottawa as they do now. They have great QB support around them now. Hufnagel and Dickenson in Calgary. Milanovich, Ray, Brady and Maas in Toronto.

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=428714

Young QBs get to showcase their talent

by Matt Dunigan ...

What a week for the Canadian Football League, our fans and the Ottawa REDBLACKS!

Four young quarterbacks this week have or will be strutting their stuff and showcasing their skill set for all to see, especially Marcel Desjardins, GM for the expansion team in the nation's capital.

Marcel must be grinning from ear to ear with the sudden surge of talented young QBs taking control and getting real meaningful snaps right before his eyes. The GM is getting invaluable insight to the strengths and weaknesses of the potential future leader for his team.

In December the CFL is holding the Ottawa REDBLACKS Expansion Draft; the team will be able to select a total of eight imports and 16 non-imports and have the opportunity to draft two quarterbacks from existing teams. (The complete Expansion Draft format can be seen at the end of this article.)

Who the REDBLACKS choose is anyone's guess, but one thing is for sure, it's the hottest topic going in the CFL.

Bo Levi Mitchell, Drew Willy, and Justin Goltz all took centre stage and acquitted themselves quite well with their play this past weekend. If that's not enough, roll out Zach Collaros, the Argos' "diamond in the rough" for all to see Tuesday night. Whaaa-Hoooo! All of a sudden, it's a smorgasbord of future CFL quarterbacks and the REDBLACKS are licking their lips.

While Desjardins has got to be ecstatic with his sudden good fortune and all the live auditions taking place as of late, the direction each club will take with who they protect could very well have been muddied!

In Bo Levi Mitchell's case, it's not just his incredible play the other night, when he looked razor sharp and certainly ready to take centre stage, it's how he has handled everything that has been thrown at him since becoming a Stampeder. Remember, he's the reason why Brad Sinopoli, once a promising Canadian quarterback with all the right tools, is now playing receiver!

I mention Mitchell's fine play because he might be the quarterback that Calgary protects come the expansion draft. Why? Because like it or not Drew Tate has been injured way too often lately, and he's older and presumably more expensive. Put it this way, Mitchell has gone a long way in ensuring future employment in a Red and Black uniform somewhere, we just don't know if that's in Calgary or Ottawa!

Interesting scenarios abound, and that's just Calgary!

In Saskatchewan, you protect Durant and pray he gets healthy fast for a couple of reasons. Durant is your franchise quarterback and he's having a Most Outstanding Player type season. He gives you the best chance to win, week in week out. But also so you don't have to keep exposing the young, talented Drew Willy to the watchful eyes of Ottawa. If Willy keeps balling like he did the other night, he's a potential REDBLACK for sure!

As for Goltz in Winnipeg, he did enough to warrant a call back audition, maybe not from Ottawa but certainly in Winnipeg where they continue to search for production and continuity under the centre.

It's a "Catch 22" situation for all the teams across the CFL. You want to develop your next quarterback, but if you do it this season, you expose him to the process and bang, he could be gone! That's why you have teams keeping four and five quarterbacks around camp this season expecting and anticipating the pillaging in December.

Are teams possibly going to the extent of hiding quarterbacks as best they can, trying to throw Ottawa off the scent of a good QB? Not a bad idea, but certainly a risky one!

For example, is Hamilton's Jeremiah Masoli, who's listed as the No. 3 QB actually better than Brian Brohm, who has been placed on the nine-game injured list? Or are the Ticats trying to fly Brohm under the radar a bit? Let's see if Brohm is activated after nine weeks and if Masoli goes to the nine-game list.

All kinds of gamesmanship could be going on in Toronto with the club keeping five quarterbacks in camp! Makes you wonder to what extent clubs are willing to go in order to protect or hide their talent at the most important position in the game.

And what about this conspiracy theory: Montreal sends Adrian McPherson to the Arena League to get some playing time in, because we know he wasn't going to get any in Montreal. Then after the Expansion Draft, when he's not eligible to be picked, Montreal brings him back as their guy? After all, they did groom him for five years behind AC! Just saying ... makes you go hmmmmm!

(McPherson underwent hernia surgery 10 days ago and will be out of commission for approximately two months. Prior to having surgery, he was lighting it up :238-385 with 3151 yards, 59 touchdowns and five interceptions, plus his rushing stats were 90 carries for 428 yards and 31 TDs)

You get the picture. The Expansion Draft is and will continue to be a hot and contentious topic now, before and even after the draft is completed!

Here's a look at the quarterback stables as they stand now for each club.

BC: Travis Lulay, Thomas DeMarco, Joey Elliott, Chris Hart
EDM: Mike Reilly, Jon Crompton, Kerry Joseph, Matt Nichols, Jacory Harris
CGY: Drew Tate, Kevin Glenn, Bo Levi Mitchell, Ryan Perrilloux
SSK: Darian Durant, Drew Willy, Tino Sunseri
TOR: Ricky Ray, Zach Collaros, Trevor Harris, Josh Portis, Mitchell Gale
HAM: Henry Burris, Dan LeFevour, Jeremiah Masoli, Brian Brohm
MTL: Anthony Calvillo, Josh Neiswander, Tanner Marsh
WPG: Buck Pierce, Justin Goltz, Max Hall

Sidebar: Look at the three teams that are only carrying three quarterbacks: Winnipeg, Montreal and Saskatchewan. Seems like Winnipeg would be trying to develop a fourth at the very least!

Montreal and Saskatchewan you would have to think are maybe losing a quarterback this season with Calvillo potentially retiring and Willy getting scooped up in the Expansion Draft. So why not be developing that fourth guy now?

More "Water Cooler" Stuff

Other potential candidates for the REDBLACKS I would consider bringing into camp are the "Pasture Guys." The QBs that have been put out in the pasture that have CFL experience, been kicked around a bit, but still have some tread left on their tires.

Adrian McPherson
Quinton Porter
Alex Brink
Steven Jyles

I'm sure there are a few more that could be added to that list, feel free to do so!

The thing with the "Pasture Guys" is they are available and would be, in most cases, extremely valuable commodities for training camp. You never know, one of these guys I mentioned could be that guy where things come together and crystallize at the right time. Or they could/would be solid at least as an experienced No. 3, an insurance policy so to speak.

They could teach others the subtle nuances of the game: how to prepare, how to handle adversity, watch video, help show the rookies the ropes on how to travel, be a pro and basically be coaches on the field for a quicker development of the team in general. I'd do it and be better off for it!

I know one thing for sure, after Tuesday night, Desjardins and company will be all the wiser after the showcasing of four young quarterbacks in a crazy Week Five.

The Expansion Draft

The Expansion Draft will consist of three rounds: one for imports, and two for non-imports.

Ottawa will be able to select a total of eight imports and 16 non-imports, including two quarterbacks, from existing teams.

In addition, Ottawa will pick first in all six rounds of the 2014 CFL Canadian Draft, after picking four underclassmen from the NCAA in the 2013 CFL Canadian Draft.

With those four picks Ottawa selected Toronto's Nolan MacMillan, an offensive lineman from the University of Iowa, with their first round pick; Ottawa's own Connor Williams, a defensive lineman with Utah State, with their second round pick; Brampton, Ontario's Kalonji Kashama, a defensive end from Eastern Michigan in the third round; and New Westminister, BC's Tyler Digby, who played tight end at Robert Morris in the fourth round.

Here are some additional details on the expansion draft:

The Expansion Draft is divided into two main categories from which players may be selected, Non-Imports and Imports (quarterbacks, kickers, and punters are eligible for selection within the applicable Non-Import or Import category).

Ottawa will have the ability to select not more than two quarterbacks and not more than one kicker or punter (for clarity, Ottawa may not select a kicker and a punter). A Member Club cannot have both a quarterback and a kicker or punter selected from its roster. A Member Club cannot have more than one quarterback selected from its roster.

ROUND ONE: IMPORT DRAFT

Member Clubs may protect one quarterback, and ten additional Import players.

Ottawa will select one Import player from each Member Club.

Import quarterbacks, kickers, and punters are eligible for selection (and protection), provided that:

Each Member Club may protect a maximum of one quarterback in the Import Draft.

All other quarterbacks on a Member Club's roster at the time of the draft are eligible for selection in this section.

Ottawa will only be able to select two quarterbacks in the Expansion Draft.

If a quarterback is selected from a Member Club in the Import Draft, such Member Club will be able to protect the names of an additional two Non-Import players in the first round of the Non-Import Draft.

If a kicker or punter is selected from a Member Club in the Import Draft, such Member Club will be able to protect one additional Non-Import player in the first round of the Non-Import Draft.

ROUND TWO: NON-IMPORT DRAFT

Each Member Club will protect six Non-Import players.

Non-Import quarterbacks, kickers, and punters are eligible for selection (and protection), provided that:

If a Member Club had a quarterback selected from its roster in the Import draft, it will be permitted to protect eight Non-Import players in the first round of the Non-Import Draft (instead of six); and

Ottawa will be prevented from also selecting a kicker or punter from that Member Club.

If a Member Club had a kicker or punter selected from its roster in the Import Draft:

That Member Club will be permitted to protect seven Non-Import players in the Non-Import Draft (instead of six)

Ottawa will be prevented from also selecting a quarterback from that Member Club.

Any kicker or punter selected in the Non-Import Draft must be selected in the first round. If a Member Club had a kicker or punter selected from its roster in the Non-Import Draft, such Member Club would be eligible to protect eight Non-Import players in the second round of the Non-Import Draft, instead of six.

Ottawa will then select one non-import player from each Member Club.

ROUND THREE: NON-IMPORT DRAFT

Member Clubs will then submit a second list of an additional six Non-Import players for protection

If a Member Club lost a Non-Import kicker or punter in the first round of the Non-Import Draft, such Member Club would submit two additional Non-Import player names for protection.

Ottawa will then select one non-import player from each Member Club.

The Commissioner will resolve any dispute related to player eligibility for the Expansion Draft process.

CFL CANADIAN DRAFT (Non-Imports)

Ottawa will select in rounds one, two, three and four of the CFL Canadian Draft in the calendar year preceding the year it begins play, 2013. It will select at the ninth position in each of the first four rounds and may only select Redshirt Juniors from the NCAA. Ottawa will be able to select a maximum of four underclassmen (NCAA) in that CFL Canadian Draft.

Ottawa will have the first pick in every round of the CFL Canadian Draft in the calendar year in which it begins play, (2014) That provides Ottawa with the:
1st overall selection, 10th overall selection, 19th overall selection, 28th overall selection, 37th overall selection, 45th overall selection, plus two additional picks at 55 and 56.

In addition to the Expansion Draft and selections in the CFL Canadian Drafts, the conditional Ottawa franchise may operate a Negotiation List in advance of its return to the league. Ottawa's interim Negotiation List can include a maximum of 25 players, including a maximum of 10 quarterbacks.

[WestCoastJoe]

Marcel must be grinning from ear to ear with the sudden surge of talented young QBs taking control and getting real meaningful snaps right before his eyes. The GM is getting invaluable insight to the strengths and weaknesses of the potential future leader for his team.

In December the CFL is holding the Ottawa REDBLACKS Expansion Draft; the team will be able to select a total of eight imports and 16 non-imports and have the opportunity to draft two quarterbacks from existing teams. (The complete Expansion Draft format can be seen at the end of this article.)

I don't think the Lions will be losing a QB.

I mention Mitchell's fine play because he might be the quarterback that Calgary protects come the expansion draft. Why? Because like it or not Drew Tate has been injured way too often lately, and he's older and presumably more expensive. Put it this way, Mitchell has gone a long way in ensuring future employment in a Red and Black uniform somewhere, we just don't know if that's in Calgary or Ottawa!

Interesting scenarios abound, and that's just Calgary!

In Saskatchewan, you protect Durant and pray he gets healthy fast for a couple of reasons. Durant is your franchise quarterback and he's having a Most Outstanding Player type season. He gives you the best chance to win, week in week out. But also so you don't have to keep exposing the young, talented Drew Willy to the watchful eyes of Ottawa. If Willy keeps balling like he did the other night, he's a potential REDBLACK for sure!

And what about this conspiracy theory: Montreal sends Adrian McPherson to the Arena League to get some playing time in, because we know he wasn't going to get any in Montreal. Then after the Expansion Draft, when he's not eligible to be picked, Montreal brings him back as their guy? After all, they did groom him for five years behind AC! Just saying ... makes you go hmmmmm!

BC: Travis Lulay, Thomas DeMarco, Joey Elliott, Chris Hart
EDM: Mike Reilly, Jon Crompton, Kerry Joseph, Matt Nichols, Jacory Harris
CGY: Drew Tate, Kevin Glenn, Bo Levi Mitchell, Ryan Perrilloux
SSK: Darian Durant, Drew Willy, Tino Sunseri
TOR: Ricky Ray, Zach Collaros, Trevor Harris, Josh Portis, Mitchell Gale
HAM: Henry Burris, Dan LeFevour, Jeremiah Masoli, Brian Brohm
MTL: Anthony Calvillo, Josh Neiswander, Tanner Marsh
WPG: Buck Pierce, Justin Goltz, Max Hall

Other potential candidates for the REDBLACKS I would consider bringing into camp are the "Pasture Guys." The QBs that have been put out in the pasture that have CFL experience, been kicked around a bit, but still have some tread left on their tires.

Adrian McPherson
Quinton Porter
Alex Brink
Steven Jyles

Jyles? Hmmmm ... I don't think so. Maybe if Eric Tillman is hired in Ottawa as a consultant.

The Expansion Draft

The Expansion Draft will consist of three rounds: one for imports, and two for non-imports.

Ottawa will be able to select a total of eight imports and 16 non-imports, including two quarterbacks, from existing teams.

In addition, Ottawa will pick first in all six rounds of the 2014 CFL Canadian Draft, after picking four underclassmen from the NCAA in the 2013 CFL Canadian Draft.

With those four picks Ottawa selected Toronto's Nolan MacMillan, an offensive lineman from the University of Iowa, with their first round pick; Ottawa's own Connor Williams, a defensive lineman with Utah State, with their second round pick; Brampton, Ontario's Kalonji Kashama, a defensive end from Eastern Michigan in the third round; and New Westminister, BC's Tyler Digby, who played tight end at Robert Morris in the fourth round.

Member Clubs may protect one quarterback, and ten additional Import players.

Ottawa will select one Import player from each Member Club.

If a quarterback is selected from a Member Club in the Import Draft, such Member Club will be able to protect the names of an additional two Non-Import players in the first round of the Non-Import Draft.

This is big. It makes it worthwhile to have a QB drafted. And it is unlikely B.C. will lose a QB.

[DanoT]

One consideration for Ottawa is the impact of picking a QB from a team that might have a pretty good unprotected 7th and 8th NI that then gets protected as compensation for loosing a QB.

If I were picking , I'd take the most experienced guy likely to be available which is Kevin Glenn. Next I'd take either Drew Willy or Collaros depending on which team had the best unprotected NIs available as mentioned above.

[WestCoastJoe]

Redblacks must be licking their chops over backup QBs

By Steve Buffery,Toronto Sun

First posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 08:54 PM MDT | Updated: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 05:15 AM MDT

If the expansion Ottawa Redblacks like what they saw from Argonauts backup Zach Collaros in Tuesday night’s win, he might not be in Toronto next season. (MICHAEL PEAKE/Toronto Sun)

TORONTO - The loudest sound at the Toronto Argos game Tuesday night wasn’t the sound system, the drums or the fans.

It was Ottawa Redblacks GM Marcel Desjardins hyperventilating watching the Argos’ starting quarterback Zach Collaros perform.

Even if Desjardins watched the game on TV somewhere.

The Redblacks will join the CFL next season and the expansion draft will be held on Dec. 16. Each existing CFL team is allowed to protect one quarterback and the way Collaros played against the B.C. Lions on Tuesday, you know Desjardins has to be licking his chops.

Collaros even got into the act after Toronto’s 38-12 win over the Lions when asked about the possibility of going to Ottawa next season.

“Je m’appelle Zach. I can say that,” said the native of Steubenville, Ohio, who didn’t study a lot of French in high school. “Comme ca, comme ca? I can say that, right?”

If Collaros keeps performing like he did against the Lions (when given the chance) going forward, language will be the least of his problems in the CFL. The 24-year-old QB was brilliant in his debut as a CFL starting quarterback, replacing the injured Ricky Ray, throwing for 253 yards, completing 21-of-25 attempts, tossing three TDs with no interceptions and rushing for 28 more. The only blemish on his performance was a first-quarter fumble, but that was caused when running back Curtis Steele, who collided with Collaros and knocked the ball out of his hands. Steele also had an excellent debut as a starter, rushing for 74 yards on 12 carries and making five catches for 35 more.

In fact, it has been an extraordinary week in the CFL for substitute QBs. Drew Willy of Saskatchewan Roughriders, in place of the injured Darian Durant, made his first CFL start on Saturday against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and completed 14-of-25 pass attempts for 269 yards with 3 TDs and no interceptions. A day earlier, Bo Levi Mitchell of the Calgary Stampeders, in for the injured Drew Tate and Kevin Glenn, completed 29-of-33 attempts for 376 yards in the air, leading the Stamps over the Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

If Desjardins was at all worried about finding a decent quarterback earlier, he likely isn’t now.

“Put it this way, Ottawa is going to have a tough time picking that quarterback,” said Noel Prefontaine, the Argos’ veteran kicker. “A lot of guys in this league are backing up and are quality players. You know it’s going to be a tough decision for them.”

And after Tuesday’s performance, Collaros, a former University of Cincinnati star, is now probably at the top of his list. Ray, who was out this week with a lower-body injury, is under contract through the 2015.

Of course, it’s only one game, but Collaros was absolutely lights-out in front of 20,064 fans at the Rogers Centre. Not only were his numbers terrific, he demonstrated that he has the purrfect style for the CFL, a decent arm, but also quick and agile on his feet. Just ask Lions linebacker Adam Bighill.

Twice in the first half, Collaros dodged an incoming Bighill with a nifty deke, the first time hitting Jason Barnes for a 20-yard TD pass after avoiding a tackle. On another occasion, early in the fourth quarter, Collaros did a beautiful spinarama to beat a tackle and then receiver Mike Bradwell for a four-yard reception. His numbers would have been even better if not for a 68-yard pass to Andre Durie, which took the Argos to the B.C. seven-yard line, being called back for holding.

“The other thing you have to take into consideration is how good their defence is,” Argos head coach Scott Milanovich said. “That is a very, very good defence and so for him to be able to do that after a little bit of a slow start, with the fumble, even though it wasn’t Zach’s fault, was impressive.”

It was the first win by an Argos quarterback in his starting debut since Marcus Brady, on July 15, 2003, when he led Toronto to a 24-14 win over the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. Brady is the now the Argos offensive coordinator. Between Brady and Collaros, five QBs made their starting debut for the Argos and lost.

[Coast Mountain Lion]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=428714

Here's a look at the quarterback stables as they stand now for each club.

BC: Travis Lulay, Thomas DeMarco, Joey Elliott, Chris Hart
EDM: Mike Reilly, Jon Crompton, Kerry Joseph, Matt Nichols, Jacory Harris
CGY: Drew Tate, Kevin Glenn, Bo Levi Mitchell, Ryan Perrilloux
SSK: Darian Durant, Drew Willy, Tino Sunseri
TOR: Ricky Ray, Zach Collaros, Trevor Harris, Josh Portis, Mitchell Gale
HAM: Henry Burris, Dan LeFevour, Jeremiah Masoli, Brian Brohm
MTL: Anthony Calvillo, Josh Neiswander, Tanner Marsh
WPG: Buck Pierce, Justin Goltz, Max Hall

All have capable backups with game experience except

Montreal: Neiswander has done minimal holding, short yardage and mop-up duty for a few years but no more. Be concerned.
Hamilton: Frank and a bunch of other guys. Be very concerned.

If either of their starters gets injured, expect Popp or Obie to be on the phone asap to Jyles, Porter, McPherson, Brink or maybe even Dinwiddie.

[TheLionKing]

The format of the draft seemed complicated.

[Rammer]

One consideration for Ottawa is the impact of picking a QB from a team that might have a pretty good unprotected 7th and 8th NI that then gets protected as compensation for loosing a QB.

If I were picking , I'd take the most experienced guy likely to be available which is Kevin Glenn. Next I'd take either Drew Willy or Collaros depending on which team had the best unprotected NIs available as mentioned above.

Well at least among the top two or three contending QB's, you might consider who would be protected if you chose their QB. But really, you want to have the best QB possible, with experience enough to know if they can play in the CFL, but young enough that they can help your team for years down the road. I would think that unless a gem of an NI was the difference maker, Ottawa sticks to getting the best QB regardless of a potential NI candidate.

[KnowItAll]

along with their 2 qb picks, I think ottawa would be smart to pick sinopoli as a receiver if he is not protected.

[Toppy Vann]

While the focus for some media, etc is on the quality of these emerging QBs as if all of a sudden the scouting and camp assessments had a fine year and wow these guys are players!

I have seem how the CFL in the 60s and 70s (some teams) used to bring in top US college QBs only to find high rates of failure as it was always immediate sink or swim in the CFL to how it was done by the Esks with Hugh Campbell, then the Stamps and Lions under Wally Buono and Hufnagel- coaches who have taken the statements that "there are only so many reps in practice" and 'this week X will get number 1 reps' to where they ensure these back ups are fully engaged and learning.

The common thread for Mitchell, Willey and Collaros seems to be preparation, stable coaching and good schemes that fit their skill sets.

Then you look at the Bombers where they've gone through backups who look like deer in the head lights - Elliot, Brink, Gotz and a starter in Buck Pierce who spends more time running for his life than finding an open receiver. The Als now putting Cavillo at risk as for some strange reason the coaches there say they couldn't use the Trestman play book as the players couldn't execute it. Reilly in Edmtn runs the risk there of not working out as well as he would with better coaching.

No matter who Ottawa gets as QB unless they get the right HC and coaching staff there that QB will either be a good one or a struggling one.

There is just something about the Bombers, Esks and now the Als that suggests there is a lack of good coaching there. I am leaving out Hamilton as Austin has won a GC in just one try and one year so maybe he'll get that turned around yet.

[TheLionKing]

As brilliant as Drew Willy and Bo Levi Mitchell's performances were, one must remember who they were playing against. Winnipeg and Hamilton are two of the worst teams in the league.

[notahomer]

Thanks for posting the info regarding the expansion draft, WCJ.

I think it sounds basic and it will be interesting, IMO to see how it plays out. I can't remember past expansion drafts (I'm sure there were ones). Doesn't sound that bad, IMO. The Lions may lose three players. Obviously thats not great but still another team will be part of the league. I like one of the nicknames floating about (read it on tsn.ca, IIRC) regarding the new Ottawa team. The ORBS

[WestCoastJoe]

Thanks for posting the info regarding the expansion draft, WCJ.

You're welcome, notahomer. That is why they pay us the big bucks. Ha ha ...

Yes, the draft will be interesting. We are concerned or course that our team is not hurt by the draft. I don't think that will happen. And I would like to see Ottawa be competitive from the get go.

All those new QBs looking good at this time, might not look so good with an expansion team. IMO Collaros' arm is questionable. His coolness, confidence, and mobility are absolutely first rate. And he benefits from the QB support in Toronto.

It seem both Durant and Willy are benefitting from the presence of George Cortez in Regina.

And Mitchell is obviously benefitting from the guidance of Hufnagel and Dickenson.

[Lions4ever]

As brilliant as Drew Willy and Bo Levi Mitchell's performances were, one must remember who they were playing against. Winnipeg and Hamilton are two of the worst teams in the league.

As brilliant as Drew Willy, Bo Levi Mitchell and Zach Collaros's performances were, one must remember who they were playing against. Winnipeg, Hamilton and BC are three of the worst teams in the league.

FTFY.

[Toppy Vann]

As brilliant as Drew Willy and Bo Levi Mitchell's performances were, one must remember who they were playing against. Winnipeg and Hamilton are two of the worst teams in the league.

As brilliant as Drew Willy, Bo Levi Mitchell and Zach Collaros's performances were, one must remember who they were playing against. Winnipeg, Hamilton and BC are three of the worst teams in the league.

FTFY.

While there is a lot of truth to this, there was something pretty special about Mitchell and Willy that seems to suggest if brought on in the right way, these guys are keepers. Remember too that in any game no matter how bad the opponent is, a new player is not going to as calm as a veteran.