Eskimos vs. Lions Game Thread

[TheLionKing]

For the love of God would someone learn to run replays on the big screen. Penalty on the lions no one in our section knows what happened and no replay. Short kickoff PJ gets the ball, long discussion, no replay and then they rekick. Fricken brutal. And while we are at it how about they cut back on that stupid make some noise crap to about 100 a game instead of 1000. Irritating.

While they're at it how about someone reviewing the video on Andrew Harris on that contest "If I was not a football player I would be...." Embarrassing...

[Hambone]

Edmonton's last touchdown was way too easy. Lions just laid back and allowed them to march down the field. Those points could loom large in the event of a tie.

Can't be a tie. BC has already won the season series. They only have 1 game left.

[David]

As an outsider, I find the Lions' attendance to be quite baffling. They have one of the most beautiful stadiums in North America and a gorgeous - at least it looked that way on TV - Saturday summer night game against a divisional rival while they fete Don Matthew and Damon Allen. With a team that remains one of the top ones in the game, that should have been a recipe for 35k+. Is ticket pricing still an issue out there? Was tonight's game blacked out? Is it time to do what the Whitecaps do and close off the upper deck?

It's a strange market, Ravi. I don't 'get it' either sometimes, other than to agree with sj-roc that there are a lot of things - free and otherwise - to do in Vancouver on a Saturday night in July. Folkfest? I doubt many of those people would have attended a football game, but there was a sold-out Bruno Mars concert across the street at Rogers Arena going on at the same time. Certainly the closure of the Puttulo bridge (connecting Surrey and New West) would have hurt walk ups a bit.

Still, I don't push the panic button in the summer. If we're drawing 26,000-27,000 after Labour Day I'd be concerned, but last July there were 25,109 for Hamilton, yet BC ended up 3rd in the league in attendance. The Geroy return on October 4 has the makings of a very big gate. I'd be willing to bet they've already sold as many tickets for that game as there were in attendance last night!

I don't think people quite make the connection to BC Place being an 'outdoor' venue (and this is a sobering thought when $563 million was spent on the reno!). I hear people waxing poetic all the time about the very popular "Nooner At The Nat" (single 'A' baseball) on a sunny day, being "the place to be." Yet you don't hear people say, "it's a beautiful day. Let's take in a football game." While the retractable "opening" (I don't call it a retractable roof as it's basically just a hole) is a huge improvement over the old BC Place, at best it's had a neglible effect on overall attendance. Indeed, one could even build a case for it being detrimental, but there are a lot of mitigating factors - namely price - that have led to steady decline since the high water mark of 34,082 (average) in 2008.


DH

[sj-roc]

As an outsider, I find the Lions' attendance to be quite baffling. They have one of the most beautiful stadiums in North America and a gorgeous - at least it looked that way on TV - Saturday summer night game against a divisional rival while they fete Don Matthew and Damon Allen. With a team that remains one of the top ones in the game, that should have been a recipe for 35k+. Is ticket pricing still an issue out there? Was tonight's game blacked out? Is it time to do what the Whitecaps do and close off the upper deck?

It's a strange market, Ravi. I don't 'get it' either sometimes, other than to agree with sj-roc that there are a lot of things - free and otherwise - to do in Vancouver on a Saturday night in July. Folkfest? I doubt many of those people would have attended a football game, but there was a sold-out Bruno Mars concert across the street at Rogers Arena going on at the same time. Certainly the closure of the Puttulo bridge (connecting Surrey and New West) would have hurt walk ups a bit.

I would agree with you, David, that there's not much overlap in the core audiences for folkfest and Lions, but I think the "soft" ticket buyer is more likely to go for the former over the latter. Consider Joe Casual Fan who goes to maybe one game or so a year on average with two or three of his buddies. Now let's say three of JCF's friends are going to the Lions and have tickets sitting together in a soldout section, but three other friends of JCF have decided to go to folkfest where you're free to throw down a blanket and just chill out wherever you want. There's no worries about not hanging with your crew no matter when you finally decide to buy your ticket. Which brings me back to JCF who's looking for something to do on Sat night. He can either get a folkfest ticket and hang out with three of his pals for sure, or he can try to find the closest seat to his football buddies, maybe four or five rows away at best. Folkfest will win out here pretty much every time. The key here is that not just folkfest, but many of the other options against which the Lions compete will have this type of seating/attendance arrangement, so the Lions are losing out in this scenario.

Still, I don't push the panic button in the summer. If we're drawing 26,000-27,000 after Labour Day I'd be concerned, but last July there were 25,109 for Hamilton, yet BC ended up 3rd in the league in attendance. The Geroy return on October 4 has the makings of a very big gate. I'd be willing to bet they've already sold as many tickets for that game as there were in attendance last night!

For comparison I just went to the ticketmaster seat map for the next game on Aug 5 and on Oct 4 and took a couple screen caps of the endzone above the dressing rooms for comparison (see below, seats in grey/blue are sold/unsold respectively). I had to reduce the resolution to make it fit posting req'ts so it's not as visually clear as it could be but it seems the Geroy game might already have an edge that will only grow with two extra months of lead time.

I don't think people quite make the connection to BC Place being an 'outdoor' venue (and this is a sobering thought when $563 million was spent on the reno!). I hear people waxing poetic all the time about the very popular "Nooner At The Nat" (single 'A' baseball) on a sunny day, being "the place to be." Yet you don't hear people say, "it's a beautiful day. Let's take in a football game." While the retractable "opening" (I don't call it a retractable roof as it's basically just a hole) is a huge improvement over the old BC Place, at best it's had a neglible effect on overall attendance. Indeed, one could even build a case for it being detrimental, but there are a lot of mitigating factors - namely price - that have led to steady decline since the high water mark of 34,082 (average) in 2008.

DH

I'm pretty sure you already know what I'm about to say but just to be clear for everyone else, that $563M was not spent on just the roof alone as one might presume from casually reading that paragraph. I forget what fraction the roof cost but that total price tag included a lot of other things: upgraded washrooms (which was done before the 2009 season, long before they shut things down for the roof reno), refurbishing the concourse (lots of new video screens), new seats, including a new club seating area, new field turf and of course the new centre-hung hi-def video board (any others I've forgotten?).

[PigSkin_53]

This is the CFL and anything can happen. Who would have predicted the Lions winning the Grey Cup after they started 0-5 ?

I think that I might have.

:toots his own horn:
:goes to find his post:

I'm not sure about 0-5 but I think a number of us were on the bandwagon at 2-6 in 2011.
http://lionbackers.com/bc_lions/viewtop ... up#p288184

Not to pick a fight here B.C. FAN but haven’t we been over this ground before?

How in hell do you see being complacent and abiding as “on the wagon”, and critical and demanding as “off the wagon”?

We are not bandwagon riders…never have been on the bandwagon to fall of it.

We are here as ever we have been and for the duration of this journey.

If being a Buono-bashing blogger made silent, is something to be ashamed of then I will take a bow as one of those fans, which truly care enough about uttered pathetic way the 2011 Lions team stunk out the park, game after game to that point.

This trend had found its roots as far back 2007 and did not become public opinion until the 2010 season, out in our common shame for such unadulterated shabby performance is not to find unfaithfulness to our cause as Leos fans, but instead to give our organization the backbone and the impetus necessary to push that put us over the top of our inevitable death spiral.

I am proud to say it was fans like “The Lion King” that lit a fire under Buonos ass, lest he get the kiss of death from Skulsky in that shocking “tap on the shoulder” in order to change his offensive tendencies, (dubious offensive coordinator) or suffer the consequences!

[sj-roc]

For the love of God would someone learn to run replays on the big screen. Penalty on the lions no one in our section knows what happened and no replay. Short kickoff PJ gets the ball, long discussion, no replay and then they rekick. Fricken brutal. And while we are at it how about they cut back on that stupid make some noise crap to about 100 a game instead of 1000. Irritating.

While they're at it how about someone reviewing the video on Andrew Harris on that contest "If I was not a football player I would be...." Embarrassing...

Actually I had no problem with how that unfolded and as I mentioned in the post-game discussion thread, it's not impossible that the whole thing was even staged that way as a stunt of sorts. People in my section were all laughing over how he went off the board with his answer. I would call it a positive addition to the gameday experience to have players' faces on the video board in this fashion and hope to see more of it. It doesn't even need to keep following the "If I was not a football player I would be...." format as long as they get their faces on the board, preferably get kids involved with it and if they can further offer some sort of unexpected twist to it that gets tongues wagging, all the better.

[Toppy Vann]

I think Skulsky's data on incomes is insane and I can't name many that fit the Lions profile for income.

If young folks realized how lucky my age group was and how better treated by gov'ts than they are, they'd be outraged. I am outraged and money is not an issue for me.

Honestly though, what can be done? The governments, be they Liberal/NDP/Green/whomever, simply doesn't give two whits about the middle class. The cost of everything is always increasing, the incomes simply do not.

I bust my ass to make <$40K per year, that leaves me with a couple hundred dollars each month which are unaccounted for after all is said and done. Oddly enough, dropping $150 to watch a Lions game in person isn't anywhere near the top of my priorities list.

My generation (the late 20s/mid 30s) = the debt generation.

This is the wrong thread to discuss this but in a nut shell we have to stop voting for our biases and start voting for parties who acknowledge the plight of the middle class and address the reality that real incomes in Canada have not risen for 30 years (that is a fact) while major corporations are awash with cash and keep pushing wages lower and profits higher. We should move this to the BC election thread.

I was going to add that one of the reasons for the crowd size in BC Place is also it is still summer and possibly one of the major factors is that BC Place has been established in all but hard core fans as a poor venue for football and crowds want to be outside. It is kind of like we have said it so many times that it is a crappy place to watch a game that the non-committed game in and and game out fan has that thought firmly in mind and won't go to games regardless of the ticket place. It is like someone stuck on a point of view and nothing will change that view. Rod Black is a very good example. No matter what he does in a broadcast he will be condemned on boards for any error or for just being who he is while all other broadcasters for TSN or radio get a pass.

I suspect now that the fans in the lower mainland region simply do not want to go to BC Place like they did when it first opened and it was loved as a venue. Matthews reminded me of that in his comments during the game as when he coached here the place was packed.

[Lionheart]

I really enjoyed what the Don had to say.. went right to the heart of the matter. No sappy thanks to everyone but gave it to all our friends who didn't show up. For those on here to young to remember he mentioned Cal, our old Bombers rival.. we really gave it to those guys. Cal hated us Sofa King much he ended up in the hospital.

Oh, and also he mentioned the play that I've been telling people about forever, I thought I was the only one who remembered. Very first play in BC Place an onside to Merv.. pure epic!

Those were the days.

[TheLionKing]

Oh, and also he mentioned the play that I've been telling people about forever, I thought I was the only one who remembered. Very first play in BC Place an onside to Merv.. pure epic!

Those were the days.

I remembered that play. Probably the best executed onside kick I've ever seen. Fernandez almost took it all the way. Indeed, those were the days.

[David]

Well, no one can say our Wall Of Fame guests of honour spoke the usual platitudes. One slagged the GM for the way he was treated on the way out; the other ripped into fans for lack of support compared to the heyday. I don't think this is exactly what Management had in mind.

As for the "If I Wasn't A Football Player" segment, I agree it seems to be popular and it gives our players face time (still wish they'd use the giant screen for the starters to introduce themselves. Same with TSN for that matter. For example,....."Matt Norman, Center - Western....Kirby Fabien, Right Guard - University Of Calgary.....Jovan Olafioye, Right Tackle - North Carolina Central...."). As for Andrew Harris coming on and saying he'd be a chef (when the choices were a) barber b) carpenter and c) brick layer), that was an eff up of the first order. Clare Taylor, who did a credible job as MC, was clearly stunned - and this is her promo, but talked her way out of it nicely by thinking on her feet and saying "Andrew tricked us....but we'll give you the prize anyway."

I did not miss the regular on-field host, Chris Palliser one bit. Clare did a nice job MCing the promotions, and on the Esks first two drives and WITHOUT ANY PROMPTING, the crowd was suitably loud for the defense, more so that when he constantly implores us to "make some noise" (they alternatively used the public address announcer, the noise meter, and a roaring lion to generate a crowd response).

I'd rather the noise meter appear on the screen and the PA announcer occasionally prompt the crowd (if he has to). It was a refreshing break I thought. I hope the Pallisers are planning additons to the family.


DH

[TheLionKing]

Management should take note: fans are not missing Pallisers.

[Lionheart]

Well, no one can say our Wall Of Fame guests of honour spoke the usual platitudes. One slagged the GM for the way he was treated on the way out;




DH

I must have missed this part, what was said?

[Rammer]

Well, no one can say our Wall Of Fame guests of honour spoke the usual platitudes. One slagged the GM for the way he was treated on the way out;




DH

I must have missed this part, what was said?

DA said something about a stupid onside kick the Lions did when they opened BC Place...

Here is the info... http://lionbackers.com/bc_lions/viewtop ... =2&t=27102

[sj-roc]

pathetic. how can we have a million people in the lower mainland and only get 26K out for a good football game?

As an outsider, I find the Lions' attendance to be quite baffling. They have one of the most beautiful stadiums in North America and a gorgeous - at least it looked that way on TV - Saturday summer night game against a divisional rival while they fete Don Matthew and Damon Allen. With a team that remains one of the top ones in the game, that should have been a recipe for 35k+. Is ticket pricing still an issue out there? Was tonight's game blacked out? Is it time to do what the Whitecaps do and close off the upper deck?

Just an additional comment after reading a column in today's Vancouver Sun on the demographic makeup of Metro Vancouver, which reports that fully 45% of the people who live here are foreign-born (and most of these people grew up in places where gridiron football is a peculiar sport). Among urban regions exceeding a million in population, this ranks us 4th in the entire world in this category.

The article compares Vancouver's foreign-born population to that of the three cities ahead of us and claims that two of these technically don't even count. In Dubai, UAE, much of the foreign contingent is men employed in construction and living in workers' camps who are not likely to ever become UAE citizens. Brussels, Belgium, is the capital of the European Union so around 50% of its foreign base are EU staff from other European countries and do not seek Belgian citizenship. That leaves..... Toronto, where, like Vancouver, much of the foreign contingent is sticking around for the long haul, and the challenges of the Argos in attracting fans are also quite well documented.

But the fact that we have so many foreign-born people who didn't grow up with gridiron football isn't the full story. As the article notes, a great deal of these foreign-born people come from countries such as China and India with little or no concept of multiculturalism, because very few foreigners live in these countries. They've never before had to face living in an environment where many cultures were mixed together, so when they do come to Canada, many of them don't readily take up this lifestyle challenge and end up isolating themselves in ethnic enclaves. I don't know about the specifics of the GTA but out here we have the city of Richmond, just south of Vancouver as a great example of this, with a very large proportion of Chinese. There are also such regions within Vancouver itself. Attracting people from these communities — which make up a constantly growing proportion of our population — to the CFL game is really only a smaller part of the larger challenge of integrating these people into western society in general.

[Toppy Vann]

pathetic. how can we have a million people in the lower mainland and only get 26K out for a good football game?

As an outsider, I find the Lions' attendance to be quite baffling. They have one of the most beautiful stadiums in North America and a gorgeous - at least it looked that way on TV - Saturday summer night game against a divisional rival while they fete Don Matthew and Damon Allen. With a team that remains one of the top ones in the game, that should have been a recipe for 35k+. Is ticket pricing still an issue out there? Was tonight's game blacked out? Is it time to do what the Whitecaps do and close off the upper deck?

Just an additional comment after reading a column in today's Vancouver Sun on the demographic makeup of Metro Vancouver, which reports that fully 45% of the people who live here are foreign-born (and most of these people grew up in places where gridiron football is a peculiar sport). Among urban regions exceeding a million in population, this ranks us 4th in the entire world in this category.

The article compares Vancouver's foreign-born population to that of the three cities ahead of us and claims that two of these technically don't even count. In Dubai, UAE, much of the foreign contingent is men employed in construction and living in workers' camps who are not likely to ever become UAE citizens. Brussels, Belgium, is the capital of the European Union so around 50% of its foreign base are EU staff from other European countries and do not seek Belgian citizenship. That leaves..... Toronto, where, like Vancouver, much of the foreign contingent is sticking around for the long haul, and the challenges of the Argos in attracting fans are also quite well documented.

But the fact that we have so many foreign-born people who didn't grow up with gridiron football isn't the full story. As the article notes, a great deal of these foreign-born people come from countries such as China and India with little or no concept of multiculturalism, because very few foreigners live in these countries. They've never before had to face living in an environment where many cultures were mixed together, so when they do come to Canada, many of them don't readily take up this lifestyle challenge and end up isolating themselves in ethnic enclaves. I don't know about the specifics of the GTA but out here we have the city of Richmond, just south of Vancouver as a great example of this, with a very large proportion of Chinese. There are also such regions within Vancouver itself. Attracting people from these communities — which make up a constantly growing proportion of our population — to the CFL game is really only a smaller part of the larger challenge of integrating these people into western society in general.

I work and live mostly since 2007 in Hong Kong and China (where we have a second company) and to me it is not a reach to think that Chinese or Indians for that matter couldn't be part of the marketing the sports teams use. You can't walk down the streets of HK or major cities in China and not see soccer or NBA jerseys everywhere. When these teams come here to HK and China they sell tickets and kit. I ran a workshop last week in HK and one Indian guy was a major Barcelona fan and the Korean - Liverpool. They were in HK to take this program.

Bobby Singh, Bryan Chui (who would have been a great asset in his home town of Van)- were two who clearly could have been used more to market into their ethnic communities as great role models. I think it can be done BUT the tickets must be at a price point people feel comfortable buying.

It is a marketing challenge that a half empty BC Place should inspire some new thinking on about how to grow this game.

They have two huge problems in ticket pricing and BC Place.

These will keep them stuck here until big games come to town and they can fill the stadium. Even the NHL classic coming to town is being seen as less than a classic. All glass half empty rather than half full thinking.

The fans have said so long now they don't like BC Place and it's become a self fulfilling prophecy. Just die hards will go now to regular games espec. in the good weather. It's not a desirable place to casual fans now that they want to go there so there's no allure there. Of course high priced food and parking costs don't help. But all fans have heard on radio for years since the glory days of full houses is how bad the place is and this becomes a fact.

I now think that the ticket prices are a huge disincentive when there are so many other things to do that this might be the best that it can be - they've tapped most of the market in their price point target zone and can run the team nicely on this basis without increasing their marketing cost risk.

MLB is opening offices in China as is the NFL and I saw a football clinic on TV on a field in Beijing that is right in the main central Business District. These kids will then buy jerseys and they will sell TV rights. The Lions don't need to go to China or Hong Kong - just to Richmond and Coquitlam and work up interest possibly through school programs - but that's been done with off season basketball games in prior years with limited success. Hey they could go to games and still stay with their ethnic friends.

How big is the connection with minor football and the Lions these days? Honestly I don't know but years back when Denny Veitch was the Lions minor football coordinator I used to see him at Gordon Sturtridge League games at Norgate and Ambleside and later when I was playing at NV High he'd be at high school games. I got interested in the Lions and the QB club tickets playing football and in the games didn't interfere with our games or other sports.

I understand the Lions don't wanting to sink ticket prices and increase their costs of a game with more people in the stands as that is riskier than what they have now.