I thought it might be fun to remember some of those opinions that were shared earlier in the season that with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight have proven to be very wrong. Let's not point fingers or say "I told you so", but instead celebrate how our BC Lions did not just salvage a season, they took over the league.
I'll go first...
Then:
"for once I am actually hoping they lose, because it seems that only a total disaster of a season will force WB to fire Chap. And if he won't do it, he needs to go also!"
Now: Wally Buono is a lock for coach of the year and the BC Lions have the best offense in the CFL.
A little Crow for our pre-game meal!
Moderator: Team Captains
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Belize City Lion
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I have a paper bag over my head so that goes to show where I was at..........I am not removing it until after the Grey Cup though as I added it after week 7 and don't want to jinx anything 
Thank you for everything you did for OUR Lions Mr.Ackles, we will never forget you...RIP
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Toppy Vann
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I wouldn't characterize the fan criticism as now having to eat crow - although it is fun to look back to see what has been said. Quite the contrary.
What fans and media in BC were saying is what they are now doing on both offense and defense and the offensive players espec. the OL are backing that up.
This has been the most dramatic turnaround in a coaching staff I have ever heard of.
This was not one of those situations where all of a sudden a team learns to win by basically just fixing errors like drops, bad line play etc. This has been a wide scope change on O and D with coaching performances that have been nothing short of remarkable. Often losing coaches just dig in and keep doing the same old which doesn't get better results - just year end job loss.
Lulay is MOP deservedly but if the Lions hadn't changed up what they were doing on the losing streak this team might have 4 or 5 wins all year and we'd be debating his long term potential with - is he not the guy folks vs those who say his coaches are killing his potential.
What fans and media in BC were saying is what they are now doing on both offense and defense and the offensive players espec. the OL are backing that up.
This has been the most dramatic turnaround in a coaching staff I have ever heard of.
This was not one of those situations where all of a sudden a team learns to win by basically just fixing errors like drops, bad line play etc. This has been a wide scope change on O and D with coaching performances that have been nothing short of remarkable. Often losing coaches just dig in and keep doing the same old which doesn't get better results - just year end job loss.
Lulay is MOP deservedly but if the Lions hadn't changed up what they were doing on the losing streak this team might have 4 or 5 wins all year and we'd be debating his long term potential with - is he not the guy folks vs those who say his coaches are killing his potential.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
I chalk every piece of criticism I have, and I'm not short on it, as being wrong and learn from the experience. I think you go into these things being happy to be wrong if things turn out better than anticipated. I'll take four whole crows if it means a Grey Cup, frankly.
We asked for change for a couple of seasons. When that didn't happen I sure did ask for replacements, as the current regime didn't seem to understand just how predictable our O was. When the HC was asked about the problems, the word execution came back to us countless times, that drove me over the line when clearly the same run play was getting zero yards. With that said, the current coaching job of this remarkable turnaround deserves all the praises it has received in the 11 and 1 run.cromartie wrote:I chalk every piece of criticism I have, and I'm not short on it, as being wrong and learn from the experience. I think you go into these things being happy to be wrong if things turn out better than anticipated. I'll take four whole crows if it means a Grey Cup, frankly.
Entertainment value = an all time low
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TheLionKing
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The Lions deserved all the criticisms they took in the first 5 games of the season both with the way they played, the schemes and playcalling. I don't take anything back.
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joe kapp22
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Eh, not really fair to say "have some crow", the plain fact is Chap changed how he was doing things after 2 yrs of not changing how he was doing things.
Tad dropped in our laps, and Davis Sanchez's career ended at roughly the same time
And recall "Coach" Bates became "Player/Coach Bates"?
I recall some folks hated that move, calling it "bush league" at the time, and I heard Wally B say himself that if not for the grace of God and the wins attached to his name, he would have been fired when we were 1-5 after 2010's 7-11.
Have learned that as long as the team sticks together and the staff is willing to bench veterans, things can turn around really quickly.
Tad dropped in our laps, and Davis Sanchez's career ended at roughly the same time
And recall "Coach" Bates became "Player/Coach Bates"?
I recall some folks hated that move, calling it "bush league" at the time, and I heard Wally B say himself that if not for the grace of God and the wins attached to his name, he would have been fired when we were 1-5 after 2010's 7-11.
Have learned that as long as the team sticks together and the staff is willing to bench veterans, things can turn around really quickly.
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
I should probably amend that "being wrong" part. Sometimes you're wrong, sometimes you're right and things adjust in ways you do or don't anticipate. Either way, you can learn from the experience.Rammer wrote:We asked for change for a couple of seasons. When that didn't happen I sure did ask for replacements, as the current regime didn't seem to understand just how predictable our O was. When the HC was asked about the problems, the word execution came back to us countless times, that drove me over the line when clearly the same run play was getting zero yards. With that said, the current coaching job of this remarkable turnaround deserves all the praises it has received in the 11 and 1 run.cromartie wrote:I chalk every piece of criticism I have, and I'm not short on it, as being wrong and learn from the experience. I think you go into these things being happy to be wrong if things turn out better than anticipated. I'll take four whole crows if it means a Grey Cup, frankly.
Speaking of Coach Bates, one of his responsibilities, IIRC was to be a self scout. I wonder, legitimately, about his contributions. I'd love to pick someone's brain on that.
Instead of fans 'eating crow' they should get a pat on the back for finally having had enough of the 'same old, same old' as we started the season 0-5 and 1=6, after two previous losing seasons, with obviously a very talented team. Fan and media unrest hopefully added to the pressure for change in the way our Leos coaching staff were doing things.Toppy Vann wrote:I wouldn't characterize the fan criticism as now having to eat crow - although it is fun to look back to see what has been said. Quite the contrary.
What fans and media in BC were saying is what they are now doing on both offense and defense and the offensive players espec. the OL are backing that up.
This has been the most dramatic turnaround in a coaching staff I have ever heard of.
This was not one of those situations where all of a sudden a team learns to win by basically just fixing errors like drops, bad line play etc. This has been a wide scope change on O and D with coaching performances that have been nothing short of remarkable. Often losing coaches just dig in and keep doing the same old which doesn't get better results - just year end job loss.
Lulay is MOP deservedly but if the Lions hadn't changed up what they were doing on the losing streak this team might have 4 or 5 wins all year and we'd be debating his long term potential with - is he not the guy folks vs those who say his coaches are killing his potential.
Fans didn't get it wrong..they got it right..... in terms of what was happening was unaccptable and the message was heard loud and hard.
What is wonderful is that things did change and in many ways changed dramatically. If we were still in the 3-4 on defense, and exclusively pocket passing and runnign the same old one running play on offence, as we had for too long, we wouldn't be playing in this Grey Cup game.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Excellent post Belize . I agree with your entire post and the idea attached to it . I too was down on our coaches unfairly and couldn't be more happy to have been proven wrong . I got no problem admitting it . Now go Lions!!
I was definitely in the crowd of "the game has passed by WB"....and I am happy to say I was proven wrong as the turnaround has been nothing short of remarkable.
Haivng said that, I think this game is pivotal in defining the legact that WB leaves in his time as our head coach (assuming he isn't back). One Grey Cup in 9 years with an 8 team league is not something to hang your hat on. Of course he has turned the team around in many ways, made us contenders (most years) and helped the bottom line of a franchise that has had many ups and downs. That aside, it is about winning and a second Grey Cup seals his legacy, whereas leaving with only 1 and a bunch of could have/should/would haves would be disappointing.
Haivng said that, I think this game is pivotal in defining the legact that WB leaves in his time as our head coach (assuming he isn't back). One Grey Cup in 9 years with an 8 team league is not something to hang your hat on. Of course he has turned the team around in many ways, made us contenders (most years) and helped the bottom line of a franchise that has had many ups and downs. That aside, it is about winning and a second Grey Cup seals his legacy, whereas leaving with only 1 and a bunch of could have/should/would haves would be disappointing.
Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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Toppy Vann
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TheLionKing wrote:The Lions deserved all the criticisms they took in the first 5 games of the season both with the way they played, the schemes and playcalling. I don't take anything back.
I don't know exactly what you said before but this says it simply and how I see it too. Fans were right based on what was happening.
Now all fans are heaping on the praise which is deserved.
There was a Paul on the road to Damascus type conversion in the Lions HC, OC and DC and they practically ran the board as a result and now they're in the Grey Cup.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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Sir Purrcival
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I'll eat half a crow. I had said that nothing short of a coaching shake up or a complete turn around would suffice. I didn't believe the latter was really possible and pretty much thought that a continuation of that early trend would be necessary to ensure the changes I was convinced were needed. They surprised me by taking option 2 and I couldn't be more delighted that I was wrong.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
I don't believe the turn around happened over the course of one game . That is totally urealistic . From game seven to game eight did an entirely new play book emerge ? I think not .
Some have brought up what Valli said about a 'scheme renaissance ' as proof that such a scenario took place . That the first part of the season we used one scheme philosophy or play book and then switched to the new system . I disagree with that . Not that we don't now have new schemes , but that it happened that way . What Valli actually said was that the team was going through a 'scheme renaissance' when they were doing badly , that is, prior to game 8 . In other words , they were trying to incorporate the new ideas earlier but were not yet gelled . As they started to get it downpat , we started to see the results in the game . It took time for the team to learn the new stuff , and the winning started to happen as the team gelled . Took more than one game for it to happen . And coaches were working on it earlier than has been suggested . There was at least one article in the paper on The Chap talking about how he was trying to get the run game working early and a link was posted here to that article . Many were skeptical of what the Chap said at the time but there was mention of at least he acknowledged the need for a run game .Wally also himself said that the run game was a very hard thing to get going , but they were working on it .Chap said that people did not realize how many times a run play was called for Lulay improvised and did a pass instead . This was during the losing streak .
So yes , IMO, we ( myself included ) were wrong on the coaches . I for the record had suggested we hire Dickenson as HC before some else scooped him . Now Chap is looking better than DD , so pass me some of that crow...
Some have brought up what Valli said about a 'scheme renaissance ' as proof that such a scenario took place . That the first part of the season we used one scheme philosophy or play book and then switched to the new system . I disagree with that . Not that we don't now have new schemes , but that it happened that way . What Valli actually said was that the team was going through a 'scheme renaissance' when they were doing badly , that is, prior to game 8 . In other words , they were trying to incorporate the new ideas earlier but were not yet gelled . As they started to get it downpat , we started to see the results in the game . It took time for the team to learn the new stuff , and the winning started to happen as the team gelled . Took more than one game for it to happen . And coaches were working on it earlier than has been suggested . There was at least one article in the paper on The Chap talking about how he was trying to get the run game working early and a link was posted here to that article . Many were skeptical of what the Chap said at the time but there was mention of at least he acknowledged the need for a run game .Wally also himself said that the run game was a very hard thing to get going , but they were working on it .Chap said that people did not realize how many times a run play was called for Lulay improvised and did a pass instead . This was during the losing streak .
So yes , IMO, we ( myself included ) were wrong on the coaches . I for the record had suggested we hire Dickenson as HC before some else scooped him . Now Chap is looking better than DD , so pass me some of that crow...
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WestCoastJoe
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Praise and criticism in pro sports. You are as good as your last game.
After 8 and 10, 8 and 10, and 0 and 5, IMO the coaches deserved criticism. Wally admitted that without his long record of success he would have been fired. That would be normal.
I was certainly critical of the coaching. As a discussion, I left the firing aspect out of it, and left that decision to Braley and Skulsky. I am actually very, very happy that Wally and Jacques and Mike B have had a renaissance. I actually thought they were capable of much more than they were delivering. I thought they were hung up on an overly conservative approach.
And yet, the old survivor Wally pulled out possibly his greatest achievement this year. They adjusted. Well done. I have great sympathy for Wally, for where he has come from, what he has achieved in his life, his philosophy of life. I also have great sympathy for the heat that Jacques Chapdelaine endured. IMO assistant coaches in the CFL have one helluva tough row to hoe.
The record of the last three years is in the books now. We have seen a remarkable turnaround for Wally, his coaches, and his team. I am lucky enough to have been along for the ride, with all the other fans.
To Wally and the coaches ...
Somewhere down the road, in years to come, if the team does poorly, will I dare to criticize again? Oh yeah. It goes with the territory of pro sports IMO.
After 8 and 10, 8 and 10, and 0 and 5, IMO the coaches deserved criticism. Wally admitted that without his long record of success he would have been fired. That would be normal.
I was certainly critical of the coaching. As a discussion, I left the firing aspect out of it, and left that decision to Braley and Skulsky. I am actually very, very happy that Wally and Jacques and Mike B have had a renaissance. I actually thought they were capable of much more than they were delivering. I thought they were hung up on an overly conservative approach.
And yet, the old survivor Wally pulled out possibly his greatest achievement this year. They adjusted. Well done. I have great sympathy for Wally, for where he has come from, what he has achieved in his life, his philosophy of life. I also have great sympathy for the heat that Jacques Chapdelaine endured. IMO assistant coaches in the CFL have one helluva tough row to hoe.
The record of the last three years is in the books now. We have seen a remarkable turnaround for Wally, his coaches, and his team. I am lucky enough to have been along for the ride, with all the other fans.
To Wally and the coaches ...
Somewhere down the road, in years to come, if the team does poorly, will I dare to criticize again? Oh yeah. It goes with the territory of pro sports IMO.