Where Do We Go From Here?

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Our Leos seemed to have turned the corner, with two straight wins and are looking good to win another against the Argos this weekens. Yes, our opponents have not been strong but the positive signs have still been there. One thing about the CFL this season, is that there is no dominent team, as was proven this past weekend, and anyone, outside of perhaps Toronto, could still win the Grey Cup.

Montreal is struggling with the loss of Burke as defensive coordinator, Winnipeg has a great defense but a suspect offence, and Calgary has some weak spots. The Eskimos look they are back to early season form but also have weak areas on defense which Stubler is hiding with some great scheme work and game planning. The Riders have Miller back and I anticipate they will rebound well under him (coaching does make a difference)

However, looking at our talent, there is no team that we cannot beat. So where do we go from here. Lets look at personell first.

DEFENSE

Our defense looks very strong right now.

We have the best pass defence in the league over the past four games. Defence is second in the league in giving up the least first downs, second in fewest first downs passing, We've also improved dramatically against the rush, where we have given up less than 86 yards per game over the last few games. We are also second in the league in sacking the quarterback.

Phillips second in the league in interceptions. Hunt and Williams third and fourth in sacks. Eliminian leads the league in tackles.

Now utilizing a 4-3 format and a number of new blitz packages, with more pressure on the quarterback our turnovers are up and our defense is also continuing to give our offence good field position.

So, where do we go from here on defense?

At tackle, do we stay with Mitchell at tackle, when Taylor returns or do we go with a 3 man rotation at tackle. I would go with the three man rotation.

At defensive end, do we stay with Smith at defensive end or do we insert Henley into the lineup. Henley has some great moves and I would give Henley the opportunity.

At linebacker, I have not been an Anton McKenzie fan and believed that we should be using the speedy Henderson while giving Yarichuk some good reps. However, McKenzie is coming off his best game in a Leo uniform last week. Its a wait and see.

Our secondary is set with Marsh and Banks on the shortside and Kournegay and Phillips at wide and Reddick is doing a great job at nickel. Ruffin and Dennis give us great depth.

The only question mark is at safety,where LaRose is one game away from being back from his most recent injury, Aragki was not able to secure the spot, and Muamba started last game. I'd continue to go with Muamba, who has good speed at the position if we are going to go with a non-import at safety. However, we could go with an import there.

Brent Johnson also retires at the end of this season and we do not have a non-import defensive end to replace him so we can continue with a rotation at defensive end. Its something that will need to be addressed for next season.

OFFENCE

Offensively, we still have the lowest passing efficiency in the league but those are based upon our terrible start and our offence is looking much more dangerous. An improved running attack, committment to the run game, short yardage running, and red zone performance still plague our offence but recent improvements in our scheme and play calling has our offence less predictable and more dymanic as we have gone more multiformational while adding misdirection and some innovation.

Offensively, the big question marks are at import shortside receiver, the interior of our offensive line, and tailback.

We have used a number of import wide receivers this season with Moore and Johnson the most recent starters. We wasted a lot of games with Dobson at the position. I have no idea why we don't start Paris Jackson at short side wideout, with Innanuzzi backing him up. Jackson is a former two time 1,000 yard receiver who is 6'4, 215 pounds, still in his prime years, and has excellent hands and can go up and get a football. Its also the receiver position he has played most of his career here and he knows our offence well. Giving Innanuzzi rotational reps with Jackson makes the most sense to me and we could use the import position elsewhere.

At tailback, we've recently gone with Brown and Harris. I agree with using Harris and Brown while I wish we would give Lee reps in a three man rotation at running back. We also need to use Lumbala and Kronk more in short yardage and could also insert them more often as tight ends.

At guard, Hameister-Rees will return at guard, likely against Calgary. Newman is the likely casuality. However, the interior of our offensive line needs to improve. I would lean to using Newman in Valli's spot at right guard. However, we really need to develop a future center. Reid was inserted back as a starter last season, after Valli got hurt. Reid, as the key member of the Players Council, a strong Wally advocate, and someone who makes the line calls, is not even being pushed at this time, by anyone. Baboulas and Jones should be given a lot of practice reps as we need to transition at this position very soon.

SPECIAL TEAMS

McCallum continues to be unbelievable in his field goal kicking and his direcitonal punting is also impressive. McCullough never gets mentioned, which is the way you want it to be for your long snapper.

Harris leads the league in punt return average and should be used on punt returns more often with Brown getting more tailback reps. We've also used Johnson and Innanuzzi on punt returns but Harris and Brown give us our best chances for long returns.

SUMMARY

Some key personell decisions are ahead of us. Right now our defensive and offensive schemes are on a positive roll. Most of the pieces for success, in terms of player personell are in place. Adding Henley to the defense, considering Paris Jackson as a starter at short side receiver, are the two key changes I would like to see take place soon.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Good summary, Blitz. Appreciated.

Lots of positives. A few weak spots.

It is interesting how the defence has picked up. It's almost like the shackles have been taken off of Benevides. "Go ahead. Call your own game. All that depends on it is all of our jobs." It is a great lineup of talent across the board. D Line, LBs and DBs. Blitzes have been effective to aid the strong D Line push. Good cover guys at DB. Khreem Smith has been fairly good at DE, but I agree, I would like to see Rajon Henley get some time.

Jesse Newman looks very much out of shape. He is a beach ball. He is talented, but I question his commitment and his fitness discipline. It will be good to get Hameister-Ries back in there.

Dean Valli has not shown much development in his time here IMO. And Angus Reid is just overpowered by the monster tackles in the league IMO. So the interior of our O Line has some issues.

I agree about Paris Jackson and Marco Iannuzzi. We have been getting nothing out of the Collins/Moore/Johnson import slot. Use the NIs there.

I would also like to see Jamall Lee get more reps. Harris is a good one. As is Brown.

Travis Lulay is not Hall of Fame yet, if ever, but he can be a very, very effective QB in this league IMO. He already has been. Some inconsistency issues. I like his long ball throwing to Foster. He has picked up Arland Bruce's tendencies. He can scramble. He gets a bit wild at times. I'm a fan. I like him. Great team guy too.

Kudos to Mike B and J Chap for the effective adjustments they have made. :thup: :thup:
User avatar
almo89
Legend
Posts: 2232
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:51 am
Location: Coquitlam

Gotta give credit where credit is due. The coaching staff took a lot of heat early in the season and deservedly so. We have seen some adjustments in recent weeks and it's showing in the W column. Lets hope they continue to be creative
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8238
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

almo89 wrote:Gotta give credit where credit is due. The coaching staff took a lot of heat early in the season and deservedly so. We have seen some adjustments in recent weeks and it's showing in the W column. Lets hope they continue to be creative
It's nice to say that but it's amazing how much smarter and more creative a coaching staff becomes when passes aren't being dropped at crucial drive-killing times, assignments are being completed instead of missed, correct reads are being made, and the QB is hitting open receivers instead of overthrowing or missing them completely.............. you know, executing.......
Last edited by Hambone on Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

It's funny how the better coaches get their players to execute better. Kind of like the chicken and the egg. Is it coaching? Or is it player execution?

The Riders ...

Greg Marshall and Ken Berry out, Ken Miller in. The team plays so much better all of a sudden. I would suggest that the difference between top level football performance is more about mental and emotional aspects than it is about physical aspects. And that is where the coaching comes in.

In basketball, I would say talent rules. Coaching is important, but talent is more important. Five players on the court. Superstars rule.

In hockey, talent rules. Coaching is important also.

In baseball, talent rules. Have the best pitching staff. Hitting talent. Fielding talent. Coaching is part of the package.

In football, of all the 4 top North American pro sports, I would say coaching makes the greatest difference.

As I indicated above, I would say the best football coaches get their players to "execute" better. The Riders, under Marshall, were not executing well. I don't like what Miller allowed to happen, but he is getting the players to execute better. Jim Barker is not getting the Argonauts to execute.

Wally has gotten lots of teams over the years to execute at a very, very high level. In the last three years, for many reasons already discussed, he has not had that same ability. They have made adjustments (schemes, etc.) and have been doing much better lately. Not a finished product by any means. O Line interior shaky. Special teams coverage. Red zone success. Short yardage. Some areas of concern. But kudos to the staff, Wally and Mike and Jacques. :thup:

Personnel work, bringing in talent, is a somewhat separate matter from the coaching/execution equation.

So the Lions have been executing better. Credit to the coaches. For getting the players ready to play the game.

IMO ...
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8238
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

WestCoastJoe wrote:As I indicated above, I would say the best football coaches get their players to "execute" better. The Riders, under Marshall, were not executing well. I don't like what Miller allowed to happen, but he is getting the players to execute better. Jim Barker is not getting the Argonauts to execute.
...
I'm a bit from Missouri on the Riders. Was Sunday's game a sign of things to come or was it just that typical first game under a new coach scenario? Tack on the emotions of the LD Classic at home where Bomber wins are few and far between even in years when they were the better squad and maybe Swaggerville eing due for a kick in their swag and it might've been the purrfect scenario for Saskatchewan. I think there are still a lot of problem areas on that squad that putting Miller back in place will not overcome over the long haul. I always seems troubling to me when a group of players only seems to be able to perform under one individual. Call it the New Jersey Devils/Jacques Lemaire Syndrome.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

JohnHenry wrote:
Blitz wrote:
We have used a number of import wide receivers this season with Moore and Johnson the most recent starters. We wasted a lot of games with Dobson at the position. I have no idea why we don't start Paris Jackson at short side wideout, with Iannuzzi backing him up.
The problem I see with that change is Jackson would be starting and Foster would still a situational 5th receiver.

I frankly would rather see Foster elevated to starter over Jackson/Johnson/Moore/Arsenault. Use 2 import receivers, Simon and Bruce, with Gore and Foster starting. Then Jackson/Johnson/Moore/Arsenault would be the 5th receiver...with Iannuzzi backing them up. With Foster starting, we could go back to a full-time import RB (in rotation with the import 5th receiver) or we could start an import in another position.
Not sure how you mean this, JH.

Foster is a starter. And he is above Jackson.Johnson.Moore.Iannuzzi.

If Paris/Marco got a start it would be in place of Moore/Johnson, a non-import for an import.

If we had Arseneault he would replace Moore/Johnson as starter. Anyway, both or one of these may show good stuff eventually. But we know what Arseneault can do. He is a game breaker.

If you see this the same way, I believe I had misinterpreted your words.
User avatar
West Coast Blue Fan
Legend
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:37 pm
Location: Turn left at the Pattullo

A-R-C-E-N-E-A-U-X

Image
I'd love you to say it to my face because you'd only say it once...if you ever had the courage to say it at all!! Blitz, 05/24/2008
User avatar
joe kapp22
Legend
Posts: 2754
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:26 pm

Hambone wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:As I indicated above, I would say the best football coaches get their players to "execute" better. The Riders, under Marshall, were not executing well. I don't like what Miller allowed to happen, but he is getting the players to execute better. Jim Barker is not getting the Argonauts to execute.
...
I'm a bit from Missouri on the Riders. Was Sunday's game a sign of things to come or was it just that typical first game under a new coach scenario? Tack on the emotions of the LD Classic at home where Bomber wins are few and far between even in years when they were the better squad and maybe Swaggerville eing due for a kick in their swag and it might've been the purrfect scenario for Saskatchewan. I think there are still a lot of problem areas on that squad that putting Miller back in place will not overcome over the long haul. I always seems troubling to me when a group of players only seems to be able to perform under one individual. Call it the New Jersey Devils/Jacques Lemaire Syndrome.

Riders are good team, and I suspect they buy into Miller as the "savior" HC, I do not think they will finish over .500, but do think they will be a better team.

As for the Lions, we are on a small roll at the moment where the plays that were not being made or now being made, ball caught, guys tackled, secondary knows their assignments etc, first things first we have to complete the B2B sweep of the Argos, then test our metal against the Stamps, to me the best team in the West.

Then we will know much more, add in, well there be an airlift? Do they keep a pat hand?

And what about Jamal Roberston? Is he firmly in the doghouse still? I like Harris and want to like Lee, but big plays have come from him in the running game in the past.
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
User avatar
notahomer
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6258
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 12:09 pm
Location: Vancouver

Maybe its my imagination but I think special teams is a bit of a weakness now. Obviously not the kicking part of special teams ala the foot of McCallum. But the kickoff returns, kickoff coverage, punt returns and punt coverage have taken a step back, IMO. IOW, they were doing better even earlier this season.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12601
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

Good summary, Blitz. I agree with most of what you say. The battle for the Grey Cup is wide open and any team other than Toronto appears to have a shot, although I'm not quite ready to pronounce the Riders a threat in the West.

I think Kierrie Johnson has a lot more upside than any of the contenders for short-side wideout. His speed alone makes him a huge threat. He had 12 passes directed at him in his only start. He caught 6 of them for 84 yards before leaving early with a dislocated shoulder. If he is healthy, he will get a good shot to reclaim that position.

I've been a huge Anton McKenzie fan since he was a special teamer in Saskatchewan. He's probably been the unsung hero of the B.C. defence this year. He's second on the team and seventh in the league in tackles despite sharing time with James Yurichuk in the early going. He is a big reason the Lions have been so succesful against the run since he reclaimed his weakside linebacker position in the 4-3 defence. Sol-E gets all the attention but no one has had more tackles than McKenzie in the past three games.

The in-season acquisitions of Kornegay, Dennis, Ruffin and Smith, the return from injury of Reddick and Henderson and the return to the practice roster of Henley have given the Lions great depth at most defensive positions. That's a vast change from the beginning of the year when the defence was undermanned and several players tried to play through injuries and/or play out of position.

The arrival of Arland Bruce has added some much-needed consistency to the explosive but inexperienced receiving corps. If Johnson and Hameister-Ries can come back from injury this month, the team's offensive depth will be vastly improved.
User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9798
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

Hambone wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:As I indicated above, I would say the best football coaches get their players to "execute" better. The Riders, under Marshall, were not executing well. I don't like what Miller allowed to happen, but he is getting the players to execute better. Jim Barker is not getting the Argonauts to execute.
...
I'm a bit from Missouri on the Riders. Was Sunday's game a sign of things to come or was it just that typical first game under a new coach scenario? Tack on the emotions of the LD Classic at home where Bomber wins are few and far between even in years when they were the better squad and maybe Swaggerville eing due for a kick in their swag and it might've been the purrfect scenario for Saskatchewan. I think there are still a lot of problem areas on that squad that putting Miller back in place will not overcome over the long haul. I always seems troubling to me when a group of players only seems to be able to perform under one individual. Call it the New Jersey Devils/Jacques Lemaire Syndrome.
I'm a bit of both here. First game yes, LDC in Sask, yes AND players quitting mentally (and not noticeably) on Marshall and Berry - that too.

If Miller was not around the players led by Durant it seems might have had to get on the same page as their coach.

I am pretty sure of one thing. IF Eric Tillman (not a coach) was GM and Durant and that crew were whining and beaking off he'd put a quick end to that fast. The GM is around but it seemed unseemly how Miller hung around and the TSN shots of him in the dressing room looked at times to make Miller look even a bit sneaky.

Miller had two things going for him. He was OC to Kent Austin who came under fairly new GM ET and they built a winner in one season. Then Miller goes on to be a very good HC himself. He paid his dues. Had he retired and was totally gone it might be different.

Where Marshall was wrong was his OC-QB relationship and the fact that the Riders weren't at all stretching it out under the OC. Also no back up to Wes Cates when he was down and out. If you need the QB totally focused he needs to be working well with the OC. It just never seemed to really click there.

Coaching is essential to winning as coaches set the tone and the direction for the team and performance expectations. The Marshall saga almost looked as if he didn't have the ability to do that as the Millers looked over his shoulder to Miller. While the Lions had tons of dropped passes that led to their record the coaching has not been up to the standards it was when Wally took over in BC.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25104
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Not sure whether this season is Brent Johnson's last. He signed a contract extension in the off season.
ziggy
Legend
Posts: 1678
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:30 pm

Interesting how three teams whose coaching is often touted on here were losers, rather convincingly? Rather than chicken or the egg, perhaps the answer is chicken and the egg? Trestman, La Police and Hufnagel were all on the sidelines and yet.......
Post Reply