I believe this subject needs a thread of it's own... I've seen a few O-line combinations in other threads and some discussion here and there, but I think a new thread is worthwhile.
First, here is a list of the o-lineman currently on our roster:
64 Reid, Angus C Non-Import
54 Valli, Dean C Non-Import
67 Hameister-Ries, Jon G Non-Import
57 Jones, Andrew G Non-Import
65 Archibald, Ben T Import
66 McGrath, Joe T Non-Import
68 Sorensen, Justin T Non-Import
66 Baboulas, Adam OL Non-Import
62 Hennessey, Nick OL Import
53 Newman, Jesse OL Non-Import
63 Olafioye, Jovan OL Import
59 Randolph, Dane Import
... Ya, that's a lot.... So, a few observations I made from chatter in other threads to get conversation going in this thread:
1) No one seems to have a place for Andrew Jones (starter out of TC last year) and Dean Valli (starter out of TC last year) and Jon Hameister-Ries (starter out of TC last year)
2) Everyone and their dog seems to be in love with Jesse Newman.
3) Some see Olafioye moving to RT.. others see McGrath staying there
4) Most if not everyone is handing Angus Reid the starting Centre spot
5) Justin Sorensen has fallen off the map
Hopefully those points are conversation starters in this thread...
I guess this is my starting line-up for the O-line if i had to choose: LT - Archibald .. LG - ?.. C - Reid?... RG - ?...RT - Olafioye... I honestly tried to come to a conclusion for the interior of the line.. but it's real tough..
It'll also be interesting to see who gets cut before training camp.. I suspect there is no way that many O-Lineman are going to camp
O-Line Scenarios
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- joe kapp22
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Why not:
Archibald/Newman/Reid/Olifaye/McGrath?
Didn't Jovan start out as a Guard in 2010?
Archibald/Newman/Reid/Olifaye/McGrath?
Didn't Jovan start out as a Guard in 2010?
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- WestCoastJoe
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At this early stage here are my ideas ...
LT Archibald (hopefully, the cornerstone of a solid O Line)
LG JonHR or Newman, Valli or Jones
C. Reid or Valli or Sorensen
RG Olafioye or Newman
RT McGrath
If we play an NI at RG, that would give us roster flexibility. I'm thinking we should consider this, as we have great depth at NI O Linemen. Our drafting and development under Dorazio better produce some quality or something serious is wrong. Personally I think our drafting of the O Linemen has not been off target. I think Dorazio has been too much of the mind of building guys from scratch in the lab. And they have had too much stuff in their brains.
From what I've seen and heard, I have no reason to think Dorazio and Buono have lost faith in the potential of JonHR or Jones, and certainly not Newman. Is Newman ahead of JonHR or Jones on the depth chart? Not necessarily in my view.
IMO they might have lost some faith in Sorensen and possibly even Valli. (Trade bait?). Personally, I like Valli, but he seems too tightly wound. Can he relax and just play the game? Sorensen seems like a big disappointment to me. Can he get his career going?
LT Archibald (hopefully, the cornerstone of a solid O Line)
LG JonHR or Newman, Valli or Jones
C. Reid or Valli or Sorensen
RG Olafioye or Newman
RT McGrath
If we play an NI at RG, that would give us roster flexibility. I'm thinking we should consider this, as we have great depth at NI O Linemen. Our drafting and development under Dorazio better produce some quality or something serious is wrong. Personally I think our drafting of the O Linemen has not been off target. I think Dorazio has been too much of the mind of building guys from scratch in the lab. And they have had too much stuff in their brains.
From what I've seen and heard, I have no reason to think Dorazio and Buono have lost faith in the potential of JonHR or Jones, and certainly not Newman. Is Newman ahead of JonHR or Jones on the depth chart? Not necessarily in my view.
IMO they might have lost some faith in Sorensen and possibly even Valli. (Trade bait?). Personally, I like Valli, but he seems too tightly wound. Can he relax and just play the game? Sorensen seems like a big disappointment to me. Can he get his career going?
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I think the five pencilled in starters will be — Archibald (T), Newman (G), Reid (C), Hameister-Ries (G) and Olafioye (T).
I'm thrilled they got Archibald but the idea of starting two Americans in positions where you have your most Canadian depth doesn't make a whole lot of sense. My initial thought was perhaps Wally tried to extend Olafioye and he declined so he pursued Archibald rather than develep Olafioye for 2 years then lose him to the NFL. But Wally said in a radio interview last week the plan is to go with Archibald and Olafioye at tackles.
Don't know where this leaves McGrath, as I agree with other Lionbackers who thought he did a solid job and helped stabilize the o-line. Perhaps trade bait but don't know his value given the Lions picked him up for nothing when the Eskimos released him midway thru last season.
The Lions re-signed Newman in December for starter's money so I see him replacing Sherko at right guard. Hameister-Ries was solid in what was essentially his rookie season. Left guard is for him to lose with perhaps Jones pushing him.
Valli's career in B.C. might be at a cross-road given Wally prefers another season with Reid at centre. Sure Valli was hurt but the o-line was just awful in his few starts. I'm sure Sorenson is available if another CFL team is interested. A high first round draft pick coming out of South Carolina but it's astonishing what little fatih Wally/Dorazio have shown in him given all the injuries the last couple of seasons and he still couldn't land a starting job.
I'm thrilled they got Archibald but the idea of starting two Americans in positions where you have your most Canadian depth doesn't make a whole lot of sense. My initial thought was perhaps Wally tried to extend Olafioye and he declined so he pursued Archibald rather than develep Olafioye for 2 years then lose him to the NFL. But Wally said in a radio interview last week the plan is to go with Archibald and Olafioye at tackles.
Don't know where this leaves McGrath, as I agree with other Lionbackers who thought he did a solid job and helped stabilize the o-line. Perhaps trade bait but don't know his value given the Lions picked him up for nothing when the Eskimos released him midway thru last season.
The Lions re-signed Newman in December for starter's money so I see him replacing Sherko at right guard. Hameister-Ries was solid in what was essentially his rookie season. Left guard is for him to lose with perhaps Jones pushing him.
Valli's career in B.C. might be at a cross-road given Wally prefers another season with Reid at centre. Sure Valli was hurt but the o-line was just awful in his few starts. I'm sure Sorenson is available if another CFL team is interested. A high first round draft pick coming out of South Carolina but it's astonishing what little fatih Wally/Dorazio have shown in him given all the injuries the last couple of seasons and he still couldn't land a starting job.
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What I don't understand is how the Lions said prior to last year's TC that Reid was only coming to camp to compete at the back up spot yet now he is coming to TC as the starter? What am I missing here.
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- WestCoastJoe
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Toppy, IMO it is the changed view of Dean Valli. IMO it turns out that he is way too excitable and nervous in games. Nothing wrong with his physical talent. But IMO no athlete can perform well if they are too uptight. I also suspect that Dorazio's style messes Valli up. Too many details in the head.Toppy Vann wrote:What I don't understand is how the Lions said prior to last year's TC that Reid was only coming to camp to compete at the back up spot yet now he is coming to TC as the starter? What am I missing here.
Valli was the starter at the beginning of last year. Even when healthy that was a disaster.
I would have to put the disaster on Dorazio. As I've stated a number of times, IMO he thought he could build players in the lab from scratch. And then last year, he talked about just playing a more physical game. The first approach of being obsessively detailed was abandoned, but the change to a new approach probably made it worse.
Hopefully he will keep things simple this year, and just get the guys playing hard and smart.
If they can't go to Valli at centre, IMO they cannot go to Sorensen either. So it's back to Reid. And also, IMO, if they have found Valli and Sorensen disappointing I would look at Dorazio as part of that problem; it's not all on the players.
- joe kapp22
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I think Newman is the LG, why else sign him?WestCoastJoe wrote:At this early stage here are my ideas ...
LT Archibald (hopefully, the cornerstone of a solid O Line)
LG JonHR or Newman, Valli or Jones
C. Reid or Valli or Sorensen
RG Olafioye or Newman
RT McGrath
If we play an NI at RG, that would give us roster flexibility. I'm thinking we should consider this, as we have great depth at NI O Linemen. Our drafting and development under Dorazio better produce some quality or something serious is wrong. Personally I think our drafting of the O Linemen has not been off target. I think Dorazio has been too much of the mind of building guys from scratch in the lab. And they have had too much stuff in their brains.
From what I've seen and heard, I have no reason to think Dorazio and Buono have lost faith in the potential of JonHR or Jones, and certainly not Newman. Is Newman ahead of JonHR or Jones on the depth chart? Not necessarily in my view.
IMO they might have lost some faith in Sorensen and possibly even Valli. (Trade bait?). Personally, I like Valli, but he seems too tightly wound. Can he relax and just play the game? Sorensen seems like a big disappointment to me. Can he get his career going?
I think it is fish or cut bait time for JHR, Valli, and Sorenson, one of them is going to have show a bit more than they have..imvho.
Allow me to digress a bit, in the "other" league these things are fairly settled, not here, I learned nearly anything can happen between now and when the season opens.
And that is an understatement!
I also think that McGrath stays as Wally B is making a Grey Cup push this yr with the game at home and he will be a bit more hesitant to release a Vet when he needs the Oline to perform for the entire season, not saying someone couldn't come in and light Camp up, just think we won't see quite as much shuffling as we did in 2010.
Think of McGrath and Archibald as Jimenez and Big Murph also think that is why Angus will be the Center., if you take that view the Oline will have gone from next to -0- Starting Experience to the average # of seasons well over what 50 games with Olifaye being the baby of the group?
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
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We're all happy to have Newman on board. But JonHR has always been a very highly rated young player too, who has had a large share of injury problems. I could not bet that Newman is a lock ahead of JonHR for example. I also wonder just how reliable Newman's commitment to the game is. He does seem like a bit of a flake at times.ed_lunsford wrote:I think Newman is the LG, why else sign him?
I think it is fish or cut bait time for JHR, Valli, and Sorenson, one of them is going to have show a bit more than they have..imvho.
I also think that McGrath stays as Wally B is making a Grey Cup push this yr with the game at home and he will be a bit more hesitant to release a Vet when he needs the Oline to perform for the entire season, not saying someone couldn't come in and light Camp up, just think we won't see quite as much shuffling as we did in 2010.
You sign Newman because he is a talented player who came in at a time when we really needed some help. But if I recall he did not start. It was JonHR and Sherko at guard, with McGrath at tackle.
Personally I really like JonHR as a player, even though I hate trying to type his whole name. Ha ha ... How about HamR?
So IMO Newman is no lock to start ahead of JonHR. Newman might have the the early nod at right guard however.
I agree about McGrath. No muss. No fuss. Relaxed. Capable. Who needs violence? Who needs the kind of violence Jimenez brings? Just get the job done. IMO ...
Who even needs the flash Murphy brought? It was great for the fans, however, myself included. I doubt Archibald will have the fans watching his every move, as with Murphy. But for a left tackle, the fewer times they show him on TV, the better: no sacks.
- joe kapp22
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Hmm it just would seem odd to me for Wally to assemble a veteran Oline, by signing two of them, to then not expect one of them to start.
To me it is sort of like why bring him in, sign him, then sit him?
If you are assembling a Veteran Oline, one with 3yrs or more starting experience, or 60+ games, why default to JHR who does not have nearly the experiences that Newman has?
Travis Lulay should put up a Wally B auto'd poster in his locker for using so many resources to keep him upright in 2011.
I'd guess that is the second most expensive Oline in the CFL behind Montreal?
To me it is sort of like why bring him in, sign him, then sit him?
If you are assembling a Veteran Oline, one with 3yrs or more starting experience, or 60+ games, why default to JHR who does not have nearly the experiences that Newman has?
Travis Lulay should put up a Wally B auto'd poster in his locker for using so many resources to keep him upright in 2011.
I'd guess that is the second most expensive Oline in the CFL behind Montreal?
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
Agreed. I think that's how the coaches see it. There is lots of depth and training camp could produce some changes but that looks like a solid combination, with McGrath ready to step in if Olafioye doesn't adapt to his thrid position in 12 months.SammyGreene wrote:I think the five pencilled in starters will be — Archibald (T), Newman (G), Reid (C), Hameister-Ries (G) and Olafioye (T).
As for centre, the O-line sttled down last year when Reid stepped in. Other players tease him for his lack of size and the coaches wanted to replace him last year because he wasn't big enough to get push upfront, but he works his butt off, is technically sound and makes everyone around him play better.
- WestCoastJoe
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What do we know, huh? Bunch of fans doing the hot stove discussion.B.C.FAN wrote:Agreed. I think that's how the coaches see it. There is lots of depth and training camp could produce some changes but that looks like a solid combination, with McGrath ready to step in if Olafioye doesn't adapt to his thrid position in 12 months.SammyGreene wrote:I think the five pencilled in starters will be — Archibald (T), Newman (G), Reid (C), Hameister-Ries (G) and Olafioye (T).
And yet, as far as I know Olafioye has never played right tackle. Personally I would look at McGrath there first.
I would look at Olafioye at right guard, and if the difference between him and an NI guard (Newman or JonHR) was not much, I would go with the NI = roster flexibility. Use the assets you have most of. It is very possible that Olafioye will not be anywhere near as reliable as McGrath at right tackle. Olayfioye was pretty darn good at right guard.
We'll see ... Many are the possibilities. I hope Dorazio keeps the entire scheme simple, for the sake of the players.
My choices for our starting offensive line would be (without salary cap issues)
Left Tackle: Ben Archibald
Left Guard-Jon Hameister Rees
Center: Dean Valli
Right Guard: Jesse Newman
Right Tackle: Joan Olafioye
Backups: Angus Reid, Joe McGrath for this season due to their experience.I would also be preparing Jesse Newman to become our starting centre for the future.
Practice Roster: Dane Randolph, one of the following: Justin Sorenson, Andrew Jones, Adam Baboulas, Nick Hennessey. We could also place another on the injured list.
Obviously, it would be good to be able to trade one or two of our non-import offensive lineman, since we can't keep them all. However, depth at this position is important.
Left Tackle: Ben Archibald
Left Guard-Jon Hameister Rees
Center: Dean Valli
Right Guard: Jesse Newman
Right Tackle: Joan Olafioye
Backups: Angus Reid, Joe McGrath for this season due to their experience.I would also be preparing Jesse Newman to become our starting centre for the future.
Practice Roster: Dane Randolph, one of the following: Justin Sorenson, Andrew Jones, Adam Baboulas, Nick Hennessey. We could also place another on the injured list.
Obviously, it would be good to be able to trade one or two of our non-import offensive lineman, since we can't keep them all. However, depth at this position is important.
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Reid knows not to catch the pass on a screen play and then hand it off to the running back.Toppy Vann wrote:What I don't understand is how the Lions said prior to last year's TC that Reid was only coming to camp to compete at the back up spot yet now he is coming to TC as the starter? What am I missing here.
Oh thanks for that memory! Ouch! That was a rather weird play, considering his assignment was to go block for the RB,l why would he become a receiver all of a sudden?TheLionKing wrote:Reid knows not to catch the pass on a screen play and then hand it off to the running back.Toppy Vann wrote:What I don't understand is how the Lions said prior to last year's TC that Reid was only coming to camp to compete at the back up spot yet now he is coming to TC as the starter? What am I missing here.
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