Right side of Oline

[DanoT]

I'm pretty sure coaches don't go online to fan forums, well except for Jones who does or doesn't depending on how he needs to spin things on one of his post screw up press conferences, but I bet reporters form 3 down nation look at fan sites and get some story ideas.

[B.C.FAN]

It looks like Adcock has been cut. From bclions.com transactions:

September 6, 2016
Released from 46-Man Roster: OL Levy Adcock (I)

[CardiacKid]

It looks like Adcock has been cut. From bclions.com transactions:

September 6, 2016
Released from 46-Man Roster: OL Levy Adcock (I)

Well, at least that will prevent the Mad Doctor from experimenting with him any further......
I am now hearing that his injury was a collapsed lung and not just pneumonia! If he was still truly hobbled by the effects of it by that 3rd game he played, I feel for the guy. I still wouldn't have kept him in as a starter because Jennings deserves to remain upright and walking too.

Wally definitely sketched him a picture based on his weekend comments.

[DanoT]

It looks like Adcock has been cut. From bclions.com transactions:

September 6, 2016
Released from 46-Man Roster: OL Levy Adcock (I)

Well, at least that will prevent the Mad Doctor from experimenting with him any further......

I just questioned on another thread, if the Lions would release Adcok or would they be influenced by the Mad Scientist so lol.

[SammyGreene]

Hopefully the Mad Scientist will be prevented from any further recommendations or experiments. The fact Adcock made his debut in the biggest game of the year with a ton of rust (never mind poor play too) was just ridiculous. Hopefully Johnson will continue his nice progress now. Maybe Boyko on his way too?

[Blitz]

It looks like Adcock has been cut. From bclions.com transactions:

September 6, 2016
Released from 46-Man Roster: OL Levy Adcock (I)

Needed to be done. Hard to believe that the changes we made to our offensive line to start this season were based on Dorazio's recommendation that Adcock was good enough to sign as a free agent and start at right tackle. That was getting a big decision wrong.

One had to like Adcock's size at 325 pounds but he is just not quick enough.

Right now, we don't have another International offensive tackle on the roster should Antonio Johnson get hurt so we have to bring in an NFL cut for that spot for depth.

I wonder, If Johnson got hurt in a game, who would go out to play right tackle? Would we go with Fabian there and bring in Vaillencourt as guard, or would we put O'Neil in at left guard and move Steward out there or would we use O'Neil or Vaillencourt out there? Hopefully, its a scenario that won't need to happen.

[David]

I wonder, If Johnson got hurt in a game, who would go out to play right tackle? Would we go with Fabian there and bring in Vaillencourt as guard, or would we put O'Neil in at left guard and move Steward out there or would we use O'Neil or Vaillencourt out there? Hopefully, its a scenario that won't need to happen.

I found Adcock, at least in his dealings with the media, to be strangely distant; in the way that Austin Collie was. They'll answer the question, but not offer much more. Not exactly the most engaging guy I've heard. Those guys tend to keep to themselves and aren't the best for the locker room.

Rainey is not exactly loquacious either, but I think that's more to do with shyness and a protective shell due to his background. He seems a nice enough guy though.

As to the question of who goes in if Johnson goes down, I would imagine it would be Hunter Steward at right tackle, with Kirby sliding in at guard.

I would prefer to see Vaillancourt in for Fabien at guard. I like Kirby but I don't find him to be aggressive enough.


DH

[Blitz]

I wonder, If Johnson got hurt in a game, who would go out to play right tackle? Would we go with Fabian there and bring in Vaillencourt as guard, or would we put O'Neil in at left guard and move Steward out there or would we use O'Neil or Vaillencourt out there? Hopefully, its a scenario that won't need to happen.

I found Adcock, at least in his dealings with the media, to be strangely distant; in the way that Austin Collie was. They'll answer the question, but not offer much more. Not exactly the most engaging guy I've heard. Those guys tend to keep to themselves and aren't the best for the locker room.

Rainey is not exactly loquacious either, but I think that's more to do with shyness and a protective shell due to his background. He seems a nice enough guy though.

As to the question of who goes in if Johnson goes down, I would imagine it would be Hunter Steward at right tackle, with Kirby sliding in at guard.

I would prefer to see Vaillancourt in for Fabien at guard. I like Kirby but I don't find him to be aggressive enough.

DH

I would prefer to see Vaillencort for Fabian too. Not that I think that Fabian has played badly. Mostly he has been steady. Fabian had knee reconstruction surgery after getting injured during his rookie season. The repair and reattachment of the PCL (posterior collateral ligament), the LCL (lateral collateral ligament), lateral and medial cartilage and lateral hamstring tendon were all involved. Considering the extent of that injury and the long rehab that followed, one has to give him credit for his comeback from that injury.

Fabian was a first round draft choice (7th) and had a look see from the New York Giants. Its not as if Fabian isn't a decent guard.

But Vaillencourt is big, tough, aggressive, and mean. He is 329 pounds to Fabian's 300 pounds. Plus I really believe that bigger, strong guards are the trend, due to bigger defensive tackles. Plus we almost always run inside.

Next season, I could see Vaillencourt starting at right guard for sure and Fabian and Boyko fighting it out at left guard. The fact that Vaillencourt played center in junior college only adds to his value due to that flexibility.

Next season, we will have the #2 pick in the CFL draft and the #8 pick as it stands right now.

If there is a top notch offensive lineman available, we would be wise to choose one, unless there really is a stud Canadian defensive tackle at that spot. Even if we sign Boyko, it would make sense to draft another Canadian offensive lineman and develop him. Boyko, Steward, Fabian, Vaillencourt, and Husband would give us 5 good 5 National offensive lineman who can play and a top draft choice for the offensive line for the future.

[WestCoastJoe]

One feels sympathy for Levy Adcock as a person. Gets sick. Gets cut. But it happens in pro sports.

Tommie Draheim did nothing but good at left tackle for us last year. Cut in the off season, and picked up by Ottawa.

All just part of the constant upheaval with this group.

It seems that Wally is keeping a closer eye on the work of his long time assistant, Dan Dorazio. In the big picture, the die is cast for this year, however. There will still be changes -- players in and out. Still a schmozzle in the big picture. Hopefully the guys can rise above it, keep things simple in their minds, and do the job. Bottom line --> All that is on the line here is the health of the quarterback, Jon Jennings, who in his brief time with the club, seems like a candidate for stardom at the highest level.

I agree with Blitz about the need for CFL guards to have very good size. It also seems to me that somewhat lighter, more agile guys can do the job at tackle. They are out in open space, facing lightning quick guys like Alex Bazzie, and need agility. Draheim fit that mould.

Just IMO ...

[Blitz]

One feels sympathy for Levy Adcock as a person. Gets sick. Gets cut. But it happens in pro sports.

Tommie Draheim did nothing but good at left tackle for us last year. Cut in the off season, and picked up by Ottawa.

All just part of the constant upheaval with this group.

It seems that Wally is keeping a closer eye on the work of his long time assistant, Dan Dorazio. In the big picture, the die is cast for this year, however. There will still be changes -- players in and out. Still a schmozzle in the big picture. Hopefully the guys can rise above it, keep things simple in their minds, and do the job. Bottom line --> All that is on the line here is the health of the quarterback, Jon Jennings, who in his brief time with the club, seems like a candidate for stardom at the highest level.

I agree with Blitz about the need for CFL guards to have very good size. It also seems to me that somewhat lighter, more agile guys can do the job at tackle. They are out in open space, facing lightning quick guys like Alex Bazzie, and need agility. Draheim fit that mould.

Just IMO ...

Offensive line play requires cohesion and chemistry. You really don't want to be switching players in and out of the offensive line unless you have to deal with injury.

So much was predicated by the free agent signing of Adock. Because he was a right tackle, we moved Olifioye to the left side. To move Steward to left guard, since he was a left hand side tackle, we moved Fabian to right guard, whereas he had played last season at left guard. Vaillencourt won the right guard spot in training camp and then was injured., Ste

So the only two offensive lineman who have started all season so far are Olifioye and Husband, Husband is a rookie at the center position, having started at right guard half way through last season. Olifoye is playing the left tackle position, after so many seasons at right tackle. Steward and O'Neil have played left guard. Vaillencourt and Fabian have played right guard. Johnson and Adcock have played right tackle. There was no reason to not start Vaillencourt when he was healthy again but we didn't.

Its time for us to settle on an offensive line. Hopefully this will be our offensive line for the rest of the way - Olifioye, Steward, Husband, Fabian or Vailencourt, and Johnson. Time for the Mad Professor to get some more shut eye and stop experimenting.

[David]

It seems that Wally is keeping a closer eye on the work of his long time assistant, Dan Dorazio.

I get the same sense WCJ. I think Wally has seen enough and wants this sorted out, pronto. This wouldn't be the first time either. I seem to recall a "Wally intervention" (was it toward the end of the 2013 season?) which led to Dan....for want of a better term....'dumbing down' the pass protection schemes, and it worked well.

Think of all the sacks (i.e. 6 given up to Ottawa) and hurries lately. Can you imagine how bad things could be without a mobile quarterback like JJ??


DH

[WestCoastJoe]

It seems that Wally is keeping a closer eye on the work of his long time assistant, Dan Dorazio.

I get the same sense WCJ. I think Wally has seen enough and wants this sorted out, pronto. This wouldn't be the first time either. I seem to recall a "Wally intervention" (was it toward the end of the 2013 season?) which led to Dan....for want of a better term....'dumbing down' the pass protection schemes, and it worked well.

Think of all the sacks (i.e. 6 given up to Ottawa) and hurries lately. Can you imagine how bad things could be without a mobile quarterback like JJ??


DH

Yes, it does seem that way, David. Wally is playing for keeps, more this year than ever, it seems to me, as he approaches the inevitable retirement. No fooling around.

Loyalty cuts both ways. It can be good for an organization, and it can be bad also. But Wally seems to be on a mission this year. He has adjusted in some ways, something he never really had to do earlier in his career. His patience is at a much lower level. And he seems relatively calm in the midst of this football season, a pretty good trick if you can manage it.

We fans have seen the workings of this team under Wally since 2003. We have seen some assistants stay well beyond their best before date. The bottom line in pro sports is production.

The O Line is getting some serious scrutiny now. It is about time. Stability, productivity and growth are needed. And we have discussed on this forum the possibilities that a National O Line give to ratio considerations on the roster. We have not been able to focus on Nationals there. We have tended to rely on the ready-made skills that come with NFL-experienced International O Linemen. In many ways, we have failed with the OL since 2003. And we have gotten by, no doubt because the guys are in there, doing their best to block, giving their all. The failures of this regime with the OL have been pretty well documented on this website.

Just IMO. It is pro sports. Scrutiny comes with the territory. No place to hide.

Can things settle down? Is it possible we could have stability and productivity with the O Line? Sure. But it seems to this fan, if we get there, we did not need to go through chaos to get there. Longer term hopes for 5 or even 4 Nationals on the O Line? Dunno about that ...

[Blitz]

Wally is playing for keeps, more this year than ever, it seems to me, as he approaches the inevitable retirement. No fooling around.

Loyalty cuts both ways. It can be good for an organization, and it can be bad also. But Wally seems to be on a mission this year. He has adjusted in some ways, something he never really had to do earlier in his career. His patience is at a much lower level. And he seems relatively calm in the midst of this football season, a pretty good trick if you can manage it.

We fans have seen the workings of this team under Wally since 2003. We have seen some assistants stay well beyond their best before date. The bottom line in pro sports is production.

The O Line is getting some serious scrutiny now. It is about time. Stability, productivity and growth are needed. And we have discussed on this forum the possibilities that a National O Line give to ratio considerations on the roster. We have not been able to focus on Nationals there. We have tended to rely on the ready-made skills that come with NFL-experienced International O Linemen. In many ways, we have failed with the OL since 2003. And we have gotten by, no doubt because the guys are in there, doing their best to block, giving their all. The failures of this regime with the OL have been pretty well documented on this website.

Just IMO. It is pro sports. Scrutiny comes with the territory. No place to hide.

Can things settle down? Is it possible we could have stability and productivity with the O Line? Sure. But it seems to this fan, if we get there, we did not need to go through chaos to get there. Longer term hopes for 5 or even 4 Nationals on the O Line? Dunno about that ...West Coast Joe

Dan the Man, with his amount of experience, should not have made such a big mistake in recommending Adcock as free agent. It was obvious that Adcock played too upright and lacked the quickness to pass block edge rushers with speed. Dorazio saw enough of him in Saskatchewan to know better assesss his talent and weaknesses.

I've commented a few times that our Leos offence gave up the most sacks of any CFL team, during the time of Dorazio's tenure here from 2003-2014. There were some pretty bad CFL offences during that period of time and some pretty bad offensive lines and yet we were the worst. Some of that can be blamed on scheme but we also had some very mobile quarterbacks (Printers, Pierce, Jackson, Lulay) during that that period of time plus Dave Dickenson. We gave up the most sacks (65) in the CFL in both 2005, when we won the WDF and in 2006 (56) when we won the Grey Cup.

In 2006, we had a great offensive line, anchored by Reid, Murphy, and Jiminez. We lost a ton of games to injuries during Dorazio's tenure here. Whether it was Dickenson, Pierce, Jackson, Printers again, or Lulay, we lost more quarterback games to injury than any other team during that time as well.

One would think the results would be better for an offensive line 'geru' as Dorazio is often credited for. Dorazio has a lot of coaching experience. He understands how to teach technique.

But one has to wonder about some of the things that he does. For example, in 2005, he used Mo Elonowibi as a left tackle in the WDF and Dickenson spent the game on his back as Mo could not handle the speed rushers. He also played Mantyka as a starter that season even though he could only use one arm to block.He believed he could make Valli a center. He believed that Reid was finished demoted him for Valli and the experiment was a disaster and then we had to go back to Reid.

We didn't develop a backup center, once Reid returned to the center position. When Reid got hurt in training camp in 2014 we had no one to play the position. We had to use Norman, a rookie guard, who had never played center in college and never played a pro game, to start at center from Game 1 of that season. When Dorazio left last season, Tedford was forced to go with an International at center because we really had no National who could step in right away to play the position.

Sometimes I think Dorazio has coached for so long, he just gets bored and therefore likes to experiment.
Where I wish he would experiment is with the running game instead. He has been mostly in charge of our running attack since 2007. Its been the same old inside read play with the same old zone blocking almost all of the time. We get an occasional quick pitch from him every few games. The only real change in our running attack was in 2013, when Wally got frustrated, brought in Logan, and forced Dorazio to change the blocking scheme later in the-season because it was being stuffed. We had four 200 plus yard rushing games to end that season, after the changes.

The coach who has changed the most this season is Buono himself, as you note West Coast Joe. I think he got some good perspective from stepping away from the game on the sidelines. He also made sure, once he was Head Coach again, that he got the players he needed. He brought in free agents such as Edem and Stewart for the defensive backfield. He signed Nick Moore as a receiver and O'Neil to play center. (Husband beat him out). He made sure Rainey was signed. He also signed Adcock on Dorazio's recommendation. That was a different Wally, this season, with his free agent signings.

He's also deals with his quarterbacks differently. Gone are the days when he couldn't decide whether to start Dickenson or Printers or Pierce or Jackson, or Printers or Lulay. No quarterback controversy even if we have a backup quarterback that he has confidence in. Its been Jennings all the way as our starter.

He hasn't cut a player as a motivational tool. Instead he's motivated, had high expectations, but also adapted to a more positive style. Not many CFL prognosticators expected this kind of season from Buono. But he knew he had a young talented team with an exciting young quarterback with a few holes that needed patching. It mostly just needed some direction, expectation, and discipline.

As I watched Benevedes yesterday, with his baseball hat on backwards, trying to be cool, or thought about the distant Tedford, who was anything but enthused, for whatever his reasons) and therefore disappointing) the return of Buono has been a good thing for our Leos this season. He can drive one crazy at times with clock management, game management, timeouts, challenges, etc. but he has the big picture down. The vets are happy because they know he will keep the young players disciplined and focused.

Buono didn't like what he was seeing and did something about it, even after a win. Adcock is gone. Steward is starting again. That is a winning approach.

[Blitz]

Wally is playing for keeps, more this year than ever, it seems to me, as he approaches the inevitable retirement. No fooling around.

Loyalty cuts both ways. It can be good for an organization, and it can be bad also. But Wally seems to be on a mission this year. He has adjusted in some ways, something he never really had to do earlier in his career. His patience is at a much lower level. And he seems relatively calm in the midst of this football season, a pretty good trick if you can manage it.

We fans have seen the workings of this team under Wally since 2003. We have seen some assistants stay well beyond their best before date. The bottom line in pro sports is production.

The O Line is getting some serious scrutiny now. It is about time. Stability, productivity and growth are needed. And we have discussed on this forum the possibilities that a National O Line give to ratio considerations on the roster. We have not been able to focus on Nationals there. We have tended to rely on the ready-made skills that come with NFL-experienced International O Linemen. In many ways, we have failed with the OL since 2003. And we have gotten by, no doubt because the guys are in there, doing their best to block, giving their all. The failures of this regime with the OL have been pretty well documented on this website.

Just IMO. It is pro sports. Scrutiny comes with the territory. No place to hide.

Can things settle down? Is it possible we could have stability and productivity with the O Line? Sure. But it seems to this fan, if we get there, we did not need to go through chaos to get there. Longer term hopes for 5 or even 4 Nationals on the O Line? Dunno about that ...West Coast Joe

Dan the Man, with his amount of experience, should not have made such a big mistake in recommending Adcock as free agent. It was obvious that Adcock played too upright and lacked the quickness to pass block edge rushers with speed. Dorazio saw enough of him in Saskatchewan to know better assesss his talent and weaknesses.

I've commented a few times that our Leos offence gave up the most sacks of any CFL team, during the time of Dorazio's tenure here from 2003-2014. There were some pretty bad CFL offences during that period of time and some pretty bad offensive lines and yet we were the worst. Some of that can be blamed on scheme but we also had some very mobile quarterbacks (Printers, Pierce, Jackson, Lulay) during that that period of time plus Dave Dickenson. We gave up the most sacks (65) in the CFL in both 2005, when we won the WDF and in 2006 (56) when we won the Grey Cup.

In 2006, we had a great offensive line, anchored by Reid, Murphy, and Jiminez. We lost a ton of games to injuries during Dorazio's tenure here. Whether it was Dickenson, Pierce, Jackson, Printers again, or Lulay, we lost more quarterback games to injury than any other team during that time as well.

One would think the results would be better for an offensive line 'geru' as Dorazio is often credited for. Dorazio has a lot of coaching experience. He understands how to teach technique.

But one has to wonder about some of the things that he does. For example, in 2005, he used Mo Elonowibi as a left tackle in the WDF and Dickenson spent the game on his back as Mo could not handle the speed rushers. He also played Mantyka as a starter that season even though he could only use one arm to block.He believed he could make Valli a center. He believed that Reid was finished demoted him for Valli and the experiment was a disaster and then we had to go back to Reid.

We didn't develop a backup center, once Reid returned to the center position. When Reid got hurt in training camp in 2014 we had no one to play the position. We had to use Norman, a rookie guard, who had never played center in college and never played a pro game, to start at center from Game 1 of that season. When Dorazio left last season, Tedford was forced to go with an International at center because we really had no National who could step in right away to play the position.

Sometimes I think Dorazio has coached for so long, he just gets bored and therefore likes to experiment.
Where I wish he would experiment is with the running game instead. He has been mostly in charge of our running attack since 2007. Its been the same old inside read play with the same old zone blocking almost all of the time. We get an occasional quick pitch from him every few games. The only real change in our running attack was in 2013, when Wally got frustrated, brought in Logan, and forced Dorazio to change the blocking scheme later in the-season because it was being stuffed. We had four 200 plus yard rushing games to end that season, after the changes.

The coach who has changed the most this season is Buono himself, as you note West Coast Joe. I think he got some good perspective from stepping away from the game on the sidelines. He also made sure, once he was Head Coach again, that he got the players he needed. He brought in free agents such as Edem and Stewart for the defensive backfield. He signed Nick Moore as a receiver and O'Neil to play center. (Husband beat him out). He made sure Rainey was signed. He also signed Adcock on Dorazio's recommendation. That was a different Wally, this season, with his free agent signings.

He's also deals with his quarterbacks differently. Gone are the days when he couldn't decide whether to start Dickenson or Printers or Pierce or Jackson, or Printers or Lulay. No quarterback controversy even if we have a backup quarterback that he has confidence in. Its been Jennings all the way as our starter.

He hasn't cut a player as a motivational tool. Instead he's motivated, had high expectations, but also adapted to a more positive style. Not many CFL prognosticators expected this kind of season from Buono. But he knew he had a young talented team with an exciting young quarterback with a few holes that needed patching. It mostly just needed some direction, expectation, and discipline.

As I watched Benevedes yesterday, with his baseball hat on backwards, trying to be cool, or thought about the distant Tedford, who was anything but enthused, for whatever his reasons) and therefore disappointing) the return of Buono has been a good thing for our Leos this season. He can drive one crazy at times with clock management, game management, timeouts, challenges, etc. but he has the big picture down. The vets are happy because they know he will keep the young players disciplined and focused.

Buono didn't like what he was seeing and did something about it, even after a win. Adcock is gone. Steward is starting again. That is a winning approach.

[B.C.FAN]

Mike Beamish wrote a nice piece on Hunter Steward's return to the starting lineup, with comments from Steward, Wally, Dorazio and Mic'hael Brooks. Steward seems to have taken the right approach to his benching. I found his comments about the complexity of playing guard rather than tackle particularly enlightening. Some excerpts:

“You could take the move two ways — either they were critical of my play, or they wanted me to step back and observe,” Steward says. “I just took it as motivation, to play harder. On the positive side, it is good to step back and see the game from a different vantage point. It makes you think differently. It refreshes your mind.”

“One of the best things we did for him was let him get away from it (starting) for a while — and just watch,” explains offensive line coach Dan Dorazio. “Hunter needed that, to step away and gather himself. It’s a learning situation for him. Sure it is. It’s a huge adjustment.”

“Offensive line is just as much mental as it is physical, especially at the guard and centre positions,” Steward said. “You have more stuff going on in your head about protections and blocking schemes. I knew there would be a lot to learn. You definitely have more to think about as a guard or centre, as opposed to a tackle.”

“He can move. He’s an athlete,” says Lions nose tackle Mic’hael Brooks. “Hunter just needs to work on his technique. I like to bang with him (in practice). If you can handle someone that size, you can handle anybody in the CFL.”

Hunter Steward returns to left guard in Lions O-line shuffle