Wally reacts to Saturday's humiliation in Edmonton.....

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Toppy Vann
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cromartie wrote:Once again, I'll remind you, politely, that Wally is the man that overhauled the entire scouting and front office this last offseason, and that included demoting and moving some people with whom he's had some longstanding professional relationships with.

Typically, you would give a GM three to five years of grace, and two coaching choices at the pro level. Wally has a mulligan to use with the coaching staff, so when he chooses to use it (and unlike a lot of you, I'm thinking it's a matter of when, not if), it had best be the entire staff that gets the broom. **

I can tell you that between the guarantee game, the loss of home playoff game revenue and the hit the club is going to take on a non-sellout Grey Cup because the home team isn't there, there is a lot of revenue lost this season, enough to cost some people some jobs. And this is before we take a look at what the decline in season ticket renewals mean for revenue next year. This is a LOT of money lost. And that, in and of itself, should warrant a coaching change.*

*I'd love to be wrong. I'd love for this club to catch fire, roar through the East and make the cup. I'm always rooting for success. But I don't see it, really.
** Here's a wild scenario for you. Marc Trestman loses his job after the Bears slump to a 6-10 finish thanks to a broken locker room and an aging defense. How's that for a turnaround for you?
Wouldn't that be something to land Trestman as right now I'd doubt they would fire Higgins nor promote him to GM if this played out and Popp I suspect is locked into the CFL - all that NFL talk has been just that in my view. Wetenhall's love Marc T and he loves Montreal.

Wally would not want to have this a losing season and then head for retirement as that 'd be a horrible blemish on his record and horrible way to exit.

As to the Dante Marsh comment in the other post!!! Spot freaking on. There are times when a HC might call out a guy in public as a last resort but Benny has called out two defenders this season and both are popular and not deserving in my view. Phillips was one, now Marsh.

You don't call out or kick around a popular player who the team feels is a contributor and who they feel for. it is just not smart.

The Phillips stuff was brutal as he did play that game.
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Toppy Vann wrote:
As to the Dante Marsh comment in the other post!!! Spot freaking on. There are times when a HC might call out a guy in public as a last resort but Benny has called out two defenders this season and both are popular and not deserving in my view. Phillips was one, now Marsh.

You don't call out or kick around a popular player who the team feels is a contributor and who they feel for. it is just not smart.

The Phillips stuff was brutal as he did play that game.
Dante Marsh has been a warrior for our Leos for a long time. He is a veteran leader who has played the game with heart and represented our Leos with dedication and class.

Dante booked a flight home, based on the schedule he was provided. Benny wanted to bring the troops together, after two wins in a row, likley to tell the players to eat their veggies because he has already given them enough ice cream treats. Dante missed the meeting due to his flight arrangements.

Dante is a vet and a leader so his actions are important. But this is also a player who has bled Leo orange and black. Give him a fine, even have him apologize and explain to the team but publically embarrassing him and putting him in the doghouse, in what will likely be his last season with our Leos, is over the top.

No one on this Leo team probably wants to win or go to the Grey Cup more than Dante.

Egocentricity is considering oneself the center of all things. Its been Benny's calling card. There is no question to me that Benny was given all the toys in the sandbox to play with too early...before he grew up. When I look at Benny on the sidelines, I don't first ask myself is he good enough to be a Head Coach. I ask myself when is he ready to grow up and be an adult. The first comes before the second.

The slogans, the ice cream treats, the berating of coordinators on the sidelines, the rediculous public comments from 'trade of the century to Edmonton 'clowns' and all the ones in between, the belly bumps, the poses, the hugs, the snarls, the ranting, the horrid pre-game and half time speeches have all been about 'Benny'.

As Mini Me Wally, Mike Benevedes could also have learned a lesson from his boss. Wally can be hard cold and arrogant but he also can be humble on occasion, especially when that is needed. Benevedes hasn't learned that. A bit of humility, rather than 'clown' comments would have gone a long way aftter the humiliating loss to Edmonton.

The look on Benny's face on the sidelines against Edmonton, before his childish comment about 'beating those clowns next time' reflected that he knew he had lost this team. He might be able to get them to play well in the playoffs - they are inspiration enough -but Benny does not have the respect of this team. Some players might want him to stay because they know they are favored or will have a better chance of keeping their spots than taking the chance on a new HC but this team has tuned Benny out and players avoid him on the sidelines to avoid the hugs.

All we can hope for is that we can get it together enough to have a good playoff game. But I highly doubt Benny can get this team back, in terms of his 'leadership' or lack thereof. Angus Reid understood that. He was asking Benny to stand up and be a leader and took a chance to do so but it didn't happen.

For that playoff game, we need to make some changes. For me, I would bring Stefan Logan back into the lineup. I would go with two import receivers, go two back and four receiver set most of the time to buy Glenn lots of protection and help the running attack.

I would stay with Iannuzzi as the return man and use the import elsewhere....either the defensive line or safety. How many passes has LaRose broken up this year? Ever? But, the easiest way to use the import would be at defensive tackle...to shut down the opposition run and keep fresh bodies at the tackle position to create penetration and inside pressure.

It would be cool to have each Lionbacker have their own individual rating system based on "Benny's. They could be belly bumps :thdn: :thdn: clowns, :clown: or cool shades or Benny glases :cool: (Benny loves his cool shades), crazy comments, :dizzy: benny juggling the lineup again :juggle: benny teasing us with hope :tease: Benny chewing out his coordinators :wag: benny tryign to do the same thing again and expecting a different result :bang: or :tp: for crapping the bed again...all kinds of imaginative ratings to use for this crazy, underwhelming, frustrating season.
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Rammer wrote:Wally has to account for the bottom line, the loss cost the Lions any chance of hosting a playoff game, but it also meant that the Stamps game is mean nothing game now. That hits Braley, and it potentially hits the Lions in the remaining seats available for GC, as going through Alberta to get to the GC is as imposing as it was in 94 going into it. Catching lightning in a bottle again is unlikely.
While this loss cost the Lions any chance of hosting a playoff game I would submit that it was a razor thin chance that was lost. While I was hopeful I also realized that it was the longest of long shots. BC needed to win by 8+ AND had to beat Calgary this weekend AND Saskatchewan had to beat Edmonton this weekend. Now the latter two things could well still happen given the games are now officially meaningless for the Alberta clubs. However had BC pulled off the first stage of the necessary trifecta of events then instead of the Saskatchewan/Edmonton game being meaningless for the Eskimos it would have been rendered meaningless for the Riders. IMO the Lions fate when it came to hosting a playoff game was sealed with the 3 game losing skid that started with the Sept.19th home loss to the Argos.

As for lightning in a bottle add 2000 to the list when an 8-10 Lions squad had to run the gauntlet through Edmonton and Calgary to win a Grey Cup. Strangely there was a common them in their 3 GC appearances between their 1985 win and 2004 loss. On all 3 occasions they advanced to the GC over that stretch, 1988, 1994 & 2000, they did so from 3rd place.
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Toppy Vann wrote:Wouldn't that be something to land Trestman as right now I'd doubt they would fire Higgins nor promote him to GM if this played out and Popp I suspect is locked into the CFL - all that NFL talk has been just that in my view. Wetenhall's love Marc T and he loves Montreal.
Not that it necessarily means anything but Popp signed a 3 year extension with Montreal a couple weeks into this season. No doubt he has language in it that would allow him to walk under certain circumstances but in the meantime he's under contract in Montreal through the 2017 season.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/sports/sports ... /1.2703020
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Hambone wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote:Wouldn't that be something to land Trestman as right now I'd doubt they would fire Higgins nor promote him to GM if this played out and Popp I suspect is locked into the CFL - all that NFL talk has been just that in my view. Wetenhall's love Marc T and he loves Montreal.
Not that it necessarily means anything but Popp signed a 3 year extension with Montreal a couple weeks into this season. No doubt he has language in it that would allow him to walk under certain circumstances but in the meantime he's under contract in Montreal through the 2017 season.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/sports/sports ... /1.2703020
Two offerings here...

1st, Trestman would be the markee signing for the Lions, both for the club and fans alike. Lions D is outstanding and looks to be solid for a few years to come. Can you imagine how the offense would change and be able to adapt with Trestman in charge. That may just prove to be the best fit for him as well, which franchise Montreal or BC could he most affect by becoming the HC?

2nd, Wally is on 1040 at 8:45AM this morning, could be interesting to see his follow up to his comments on the Eskimo's game.
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David
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I don't think Marc Trestman will be back in the Chicago next year, but I am not sure if he will be coming back to Canada anytime soon. I believe he will have O-coordinator opportunities in the NFL and/or head coaching in US college.

I would be just as happy with Scott Milanovich, whom I have heard has not been happy with the situation in Toronto this year and all of the inherent challenges there. He's a HC with an offensive mind, which is what we need. I just don't know his contractual situation and whether he has an out clause. Milanovich has overcome a lot with the circus in Toronto and his teams always seem well prepared. I really like his dealings with the media too. I have watched several scrums and pressers of his this year.


DH :cool:
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David wrote:I don't think Marc Trestman will be back in the Chicago next year, but I am not sure if he will be coming back to Canada anytime soon. I believe he will have O-coordinator opportunities in the NFL and/or head coaching in US college.

I would be just as happy with Scott Milanovich, whom I have heard has not been happy with the situation in Toronto this year and all of the inherent challenges there. He's a HC with an offensive mind, which is what we need. I just don't know his contractual situation and whether he has an out clause. Milanovich has overcome a lot with the circus in Toronto and his teams always seem well prepared. I really like his dealings with the media too. I have watched several scrums and pressers of his this year.


DH :cool:
I don't think the problems in Chicago are as much MT's failings as they are being saddled with a mercurial, phlegmatic, diffident (albeit immensely talented) QB with a massive long term contract. For Bears fans and CFL fans who wish MT success in the NFL, this Onion article isn't as funny as one might think:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/bears- ... e-g,37314/

EDIT: Dumb typo
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David wrote:I don't think Marc Trestman will be back in the Chicago next year, but I am not sure if he will be coming back to Canada anytime soon. I believe he will have O-coordinator opportunities in the NFL and/or head coaching in US college.

I would be just as happy with Scott Milanovich, whom I have heard has not been happy with the situation in Toronto this year and all of the inherent challenges there. He's a HC with an offensive mind, which is what we need. I just don't know his contractual situation and whether he has an out clause. Milanovich has overcome a lot with the circus in Toronto and his teams always seem well prepared. I really like his dealings with the media too. I have watched several scrums and pressers of his this year.


DH :cool:
I was having similar musings about Milanovich but then I remembered that Braley owns both the Lions and Argos and that makes for a weird situation.

Braley could have Benevides fired and then offer a job in Vancouver to Milanovich but it would be bad optics. OTOH transferring (trading?) Milanovich to BC would help sell tickets in BC and having Benevides as the Argos HC would help sell Argo tickets by bringing out all of Benevides' relatives in TO out to games. :wink:

OK, it is all just speculative fantasy. :clown:
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I think we may be reading too much into Wally's comments, which, to me, sound like the expected boilerplate after a humiliating loss. Perhaps his comments this morning--mentioned by Rammer--will shed more light on his likely intentions. The prospect of Wally firing Bene after this season--although exciting to contemplate--seem remote to me, given Wally's loyalty to his coaches. More likely would be letting one or more coordinators (Jones) or coaches go, with Bene given one more year to right the ship. And, of course, Bene has two more games to produce improvement, which, if it happened, would just muddy the waters further.

Hope I'm wrong about this....
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Buono's calling out his head coach after the Edm game, sets the table for Bene's dismissal (or demotion) at the end of this season (unless they win a playoff game). Wally was unhappy with the coaching last year, saying the team lacked leadership and motivation. He extended Bene as a formality, it's never good to have your HC in the final year of his contract. The contract extension will also soften the landing if the HC is relieved of his duties (HC salaries are guaranteed in the CFL).

If Milanovich, Trestman or Belicheck are unavailable, there's always M. Bellefueille or G. Etcheverry as the Lions SuperBoss? :cool:
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Lions4ever wrote:I don't think the problems in Chicago are as much MT's failings as they are being saddled with a mercurial, phlegmatic, diffident (albeit immensely talented) QB with a massive long term contract. For Bears fans and CFL fans who wish MT success in the NFL, this Onion article isn't as funny as one might think:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/bears- ... e-g,37314/
I agree with mercurial. Cutler is self-centred, immature, and arrogant--once telling John Elway that he (Cutler) had a stronger arm than Elway ever did! He is easily rattled, at times sullen, and tends to blame others. But as you say, Lions4ever, immensely talented, or, at the least, a very good passer. So Cutler has to be seen as part of what problems they have on offense (given that he has tremendous receivers in Marshall, Jeffery, and Bennett and a really solid RB in Matt Forté), but the offense is not the major problem in Chicagoland; the defense is. The Bears' D has given up an average of 27.75 points per game through the first half of the season, second worst in the NFC to only the hapless 1-7 Buccaneers. For the most part, this malaise can be traced to GM Phil Emery, who just didn't fix a really appalling D from one year ago. I'd be surprised to see Trestman fired after this season unless things get really ugly in the last eight games.
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DanoT wrote:
David wrote:I don't think Marc Trestman will be back in the Chicago next year, but I am not sure if he will be coming back to Canada anytime soon. I believe he will have O-coordinator opportunities in the NFL and/or head coaching in US college.

I would be just as happy with Scott Milanovich, whom I have heard has not been happy with the situation in Toronto this year and all of the inherent challenges there. He's a HC with an offensive mind, which is what we need. I just don't know his contractual situation and whether he has an out clause. Milanovich has overcome a lot with the circus in Toronto and his teams always seem well prepared. I really like his dealings with the media too. I have watched several scrums and pressers of his this year.


DH :cool:
I was having similar musings about Milanovich but then I remembered that Braley owns both the Lions and Argos and that makes for a weird situation.

Braley could have Benevides fired and then offer a job in Vancouver to Milanovich but it would be bad optics. OTOH transferring (trading?) Milanovich to BC would help sell tickets in BC and having Benevides as the Argos HC would help sell Argo tickets by bringing out all of Benevides' relatives in TO out to games. :wink:

OK, it is all just speculative fantasy. :clown:
I had heard that Milanovich was trying to get out of his contract in order to go down to Chicago and be Trestman's OC. Not sure that that will happen anymore, but if Trestman does remain an NFL HC, Milanovich could follow.
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First off let me just say that the quality of football knowledge and intelligence on this site is unparalleled in my experience. The comments on this thread are amongst the most insightful remarks I have ever heard regarding football. Rammer, Cro, Blitz, David, TLK, Dano, it goes on and on...any of this information could be released into the media and would be better than what's out there.

But it was Joe's comments that were beyond brilliant. He encapsulated what is wrong with this franchise and it all stems from a sure fire HOF coach, Wally Buono. Here was the most telling line...
In any case, Wally owns this mess, in my opinion. He made the hire. He gave the extension of the contract. He did not do a continent-wide search for the best candidate. He did not seek outstanding credentials, wide-ranging experience, nor an outstanding record of success. He chose his protégé.
As Blitz and Joe have told us before, Wally has thrived in the CFL because of the system he has created. It has been built by creating a winning culture, which has meant ZERO TOLERANCE for continued mistakes or failures. Wally has been RUTHLESS towards players and even coaches throughout his amazing run as a CFL coach and now GM. But NOT with certain people. Benevides, Dorazio and McMann have followed Wally around with varying degrees of success. They have been UNTOUCHABLE in comparison to how EVERYONE ELSE has been treated, including the two smartest coaches on last year's team, Jacques Chapdelaine and Rich Stubler.

WALLY OWNS THIS MESS...Wally also owns his great success and failures before this season. So, why have Wally's teams won so many games? Again, a system based on a winning culture, which means no tolerance for failure. Scouts, Asst. Coaches, players, heck even the team mascot. BUT this system has NEVER been built upon X's and O's. Wally has had smart Asst Coaches, but not exclusively. Wally has won consistently over time because he has spent the time and money to FIND TALENT and give them a chance...which has led to unceremoniously dumping HOF players like Alan Pitts and Jason Clermont...heart and soul type players that have meant everything to the franchise...and he has never been wrong. Pitts and Clermont were "dumped" when they needed to be. I was heartbroken when Wally dealt Clermont (my favourite Lion), but I understood. Its a BUSINESS! But the dumping of Stuber and Chapdelaine and the extension of MB (while protecting McMann and Dorazio) was just PLAIN DUMB. Not reckless or cavalier...DUMB! And what makes smart people like Wally (and everyone here who has met Wally knows just how shrewd he is) do STUPID things? Strong personal BELIEFS. Beliefs are what define each of us...we are NOTHING MORE OR LESS than our beliefs. Modern Biology has now discovered that genetics play essentially a ZERO role in who we are, only how we look. Cancer cells have been taken from patients, placed into a petrie dish and then surrounded by nothing more than loving words, chants from Tibetan Monks and beautiful Music and these cells have HEALED THEMSELVES OUTSIDE OF THE HUMAN BODY! There is only ONE conclusion to draw from this, that nature is purrfect and we *frig* it up by believing in FEAR instead of LOVE...and that's why our world looks and acts like it does.

Wally has beliefs (you can speculate on your own what they are) that tie him to this "inner circle" of people who are EXEMPT from his WINNING AT ALL COSTS CULTURE...it has consequences. The CFL has grown up. It is no longer the playground league to the North of the NFL. John Hufnagel began this movement...he was exposed to it as the OC of the Giants in a league where the difference between winning and losing some games came down to understanding the tendencies of the opposition's back up corner on 3rd and short...it is THAT PRECISE in the NFL. ALL TEAMS now have video coaches who do nothing more than watch film, enter data into a computer and the computer programs spit out tendencies on each player under every possible situation. Therefore the coordinators use this detailed information to create their OFF and DEF systems and their play calling sheets. As Cro identified it is NO LONGER "here's what I do, try and stop me"...each week is a different game plan based upon each team's TENDENCY WEAKNESSES under EVERY POSSIBLE SCENARIO!

WE DON'T DO THIS, not a single coach on our team coaches this way, including Mark Washington who can be badly out coached in any week if the opposing team is READY to show their strategy on how to beat his pass first, run second defence. Most teams simply hold back these answers until they HAVE TO use them, i.e. a playoff game. The CFL is no longer a league where your talent advantage and self confidence will get it done week in and week out. Teams WATCH FILM and expose weaknesses/tendencies. X's and O's are now VERY IMPORTANT, which is why Wally has always had such a poor record in hosting so many playoff games. Teams KNOW what Wally was going to do, it was a constant, thus they could bank on players being in a certain spot or doing certain things and game plan to that. Wally should never have lost a single playoff game with Doug Flutie as his QB, but he did, more times than not. But you take the Doug Fluties, the Alan Pitts, the Cameron Wake's and the Geroy Simon's away from Wally, and we no longer are hosting playoff games!

By Wally staying on as HC (as the league was catching up to him) he missed on Hufnagel, Chris Jones, Mike O'Shea, Scott Milanvich, Kent Austin, Dave Dickenson even Rich Campbell. Corey Chambliss knows what he is doing in SSK, when Campbell gets players over the next couple of seasons, OTT will win and MTL is now loaded with smart Asst Coaches guided by Higgins. Make no mistake, the longer Wally stays with "gut" and "instinct" coaches stuck with ONE WAY philosophies, this is only going to get WORSE, not even close to better. Look at not only our HC, but our 3 Coordinators: Jones, McMann and Washington...NONE of them have given us any hope that they can adapt and adjust to what the opposition is doing, they just keep doing the same thing in the face of success/failure...Einstein called this INSANITY! Washington has done a good job at keeping his defence productive but with a huge cost...a lack of turnovers and Time of Possession...plus he just feeds opposition with ideas on how to exploit us come playoff time...and Washington's defence will get worse on cold, wintery days where FINESSE is so important to his system.

We need a MASSIVE overall where the new Coach is given Carte Blanche on coaching decisions. The good news? We are NOT suffering from a lack of talent. I truly believe that our talent and depth are the best in the league (not by a mile, but right at or near the top). Mark Trestmann will NOT survive the year in Chicago if this continues, and its not his fault. That ego laden, over-hyped talent is at war with itself. If fired, the best he could do would be a Coordinator position in either the NFL or College...and he might prefer that, who knows. But if Wally went out and made it very lucrative for Trestman to come here, he just might...he would be inheriting a TON of talent AND depth in a weather controlled stadium. If not we need to find a bright football mind with philosophies based upon ATTACK! But, a simple change in coaching, if its the right guy, could have an effect GREATER than Jones in EDM! Ticket sales will go right back up, along with Corporate sponsors with a guy like Marc Trestman in charge.

If Wally waits ONE MORE SEASON to change, this thing will EXPLODE in his face. Mark my words, there now isn't a team in the CFL with a weak coaching staff, EXCEPT the Lions!
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Lions4ever wrote:
David wrote:I don't think Marc Trestman will be back in the Chicago next year, but I am not sure if he will be coming back to Canada anytime soon. I believe he will have O-coordinator opportunities in the NFL and/or head coaching in US college.

I would be just as happy with Scott Milanovich, whom I have heard has not been happy with the situation in Toronto this year and all of the inherent challenges there. He's a HC with an offensive mind, which is what we need. I just don't know his contractual situation and whether he has an out clause. Milanovich has overcome a lot with the circus in Toronto and his teams always seem well prepared. I really like his dealings with the media too. I have watched several scrums and pressers of his this year.


DH :cool:
I don't think the problems in Chicago are as much MT's failings as they are being saddled with a mercurial, phlegmatic, diffident (albeit immensely talented) QB with a massive long term contract. For Bears fans and CFL fans who wish MT success in the NFL, this Onion article isn't as funny as one might think:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/bears- ... e-g,37314/

EDIT: Dumb typo
This would be sending a very dangerous precedent. Throwing money away is ridiculous solution.
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Here's to you Benny:

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