Lulay, Chapdelaine and the offence ...

[WestCoastJoe]

Who cares about success running the ball, IMO? If we aren't starting 2nd and 14 due to another sack due a pass, I consider a run for a no gain a success. Just giving our O-line a chance to do some SMASHING instead of being the Smashed.

I agree. Pound the rock against the team that totally commits to the LOS. Smash mouth football. Get the big hogs going downhill.

Anyway, its obvious that the Lions are not going to be able to do what they WANT to do using the current scheme/players. Lulay is going to continue getting whacked until our offence starts burning the blitz.

That's how I see it.

To quote one Rod Black "OH MY GOODNESS, that was a helluva shot Lulay just took"........

Interesting to heard Buono's take. The guys are walking off the field. I hear where he's coming from but its not necessarily all on the players, IMO. If I was asked to bake a chocolate cake without chocolate, I'd probably walk off the field too. Or if I was asked to make chickensalad out of ...... never mind.........!

Wally is defending his coaches of course, laying it on the players. The alternative is awful to contemplate. Any staff changes wait until next year. His philosophy leans to the execution side. Players do get discouraged. I can imagine what they say privately. We see glimpses in the media.

Wally is a survivor. He will make tough changes when he has to. They might talk about tweaks. But we will see what changes they make against the Alouettes second time around.

We can turn this around IMO. But it does seem to take a crisis or mini crisis to get there. 6 and 4 = mini crisis. 1 and 9 = crisis. But we cannot stand still. We are middle of the pack, after some easy opponents.

Bring 'em on. Bring your heat.

[WestCoastJoe]

I took a look at the Alouettes roster.

D Line and LBs. #s and weights. Not big guys. Fast as greyhounds. I would pound it at them. That is how Wally used to go after Don Matthews' defences. Run at them. Wear them down. Amongst other measures.

97 - 250 DE 00 255

91 - 292 DT 90 - 275

95 - 277 DT

7 - 250 DE
..........

LBs

11 - 185

41 - 228

10 - 222

The last thing you want is playing to their strength, which is speed. Speed creating chaos in your backfield.

IMO ...

[WestCoastJoe]

The Moj replayed a bit of his coach's show interview with Mike Benevides on Team1040 tonight. I didn't catch the original interview, but the clip he played focused on pass protection. Benevides said there were a couple of times that the Ticats brought more players than the Lions had available to block but most of the pressure on Lulay was the result of guards, running backs or fullbacks missing assignments. He also agreed with the Moj's contention that the loss of Angus Reid's experience and calming influence in making pre-snap reads and calling the blocking schemes is a huge factor in the difference in line play between last year and this year. He said there's no substitute for that experience. Benevides also said pressure defences are coming into vogue throughout the league and the Lions will have to adapt to pressure on offence and provide pressure on defence to succeed in the final eight games of the season.

I don't really like to hear him hanging out the guards, running backs, and fullback for missed assignments. That is a lot of guys missing assignments. And I don't really like to hear him blame Norman by saying they miss Reid. There is drafting, developing and coaching that has to go on to build continuity and effectiveness. If all those guys are unprepared long term or short term, I put that on the staff. Like Chapdelaine admitted, the staff has to put the players in position to succeed.

No wonder there is some bad morale on the team.

But ...

Benny: Pressure defences coming into vogue. Agree. Yes, brought in by innovative coaches. On other teams.

Benny: Lions' O needs to adapt to pressure. Agree. Have we got that covered? Test #3 coming up. Two dismal failures so far. Now that we know there is a problem, can we find an answer? We will see.

Benny: Lions need to apply pressure on D also. Agree. IMO it is the best way to counter high powered passing attacks. And to shame a Gridlock offence.

Hallelujah.

Hallelujah.

My headache is gone, just like that. For now. Can significant scheme and philosophical changes be made mid season? Sure.

Benny faces reality. Schemes adjustment coming. An admission that the coaching staff has been behind the 8 ball in terms of what has come into vogue, as we were caught unprepared. Out coached in other words. Our OC and DC need to adapt to the times. And our O Line coach needs to build a program of continuity with his charges. Wally's guys (his loyal, familiar coaches club) are getting a dose of harsh reality. You can be made to look like poor amateurs by innovative coaches. How can professionals be fooled by such an old tactic, right there in front of them? Sleeping. Complacency. Self satisfaction. Arrogance. Hubris.

A shameful debacle against Montreal. And a shameful debacle against Hamilton. Not on the players.

One advantage of football, unlike hidden business reports, is that the evidence is all on the tape.

Were we prepared for this "new" tactic, newly in vogue, pressure D, the all out blitz? No. We were deceived. Fooled. We were fooled. The Emperor, and the Generals, have no clothes. And the players paid the biggest price.

Were we utilizing this "new" tactic, pressure D, ourselves? No.

One can understand the rage of MexicoLionFan. Support for the players. Trapped. Keep your mouths shut. Watch what you say to the media (It will look bad for the coaches). You guys have to execute our beautiful schemes. Go out there, in harm's way, with our fully effective plans. We know what we are doing. We'll be here on the sideline. Out of harm's way. Execute.

And the players are probably saying: Thank the Lord. Freedom from an antiquated system. At this point, it is a maybe ...

IMO ...

(Moved from the post game thread since issues with the offence affect more than one game.)

[WestCoastJoe]

The Moj replayed a bit of his coach's show interview with Mike Benevides on Team1040 tonight. I didn't catch the original interview, but the clip he played focused on pass protection. Benevides said there were a couple of times that the Ticats brought more players than the Lions had available to block but most of the pressure on Lulay was the result of guards, running backs or fullbacks missing assignments. He also agreed with the Moj's contention that the loss of Angus Reid's experience and calming influence in making pre-snap reads and calling the blocking schemes is a huge factor in the difference in line play between last year and this year. He said there's no substitute for that experience. Benevides also said pressure defences are coming into vogue throughout the league and the Lions will have to adapt to pressure on offence and provide pressure on defence to succeed in the final eight games of the season.

Benevides made two mistakes, he pointed the onus of last games blitzkrieg on certain positions (gaurd, RB, and FB), and secondly on Norman for lack of experience. Now it isn't at the Ed Hervey level, but once again there isn't any ownership on the coaches. They all saw what was going on, and you can't tell me that they couldn't help Norman and the OL to make some adjustments sooner. This is more about being out coached even worse than the Montreal game IMO. Without sending more defenders than the Lions had for protection, doesn't bode well for the Als forthcoming game as they will no doubt disguise between their allout blitz packages with Hamilton's schemes.

When Benevides tosses out multiple positions as problems and the lack of experience of Norman he has justified a poor showing to joe average fan. However this isn't a one of, it is a continous problem that has plagued the Lions for a decade with mild adjustments along the way. Why is it the Lions that are targetted with this pressure D, it is due to the predictability of our OC arrogance that his schemes are superior (if executed) to any DC schemes. It just isn't the case, and the HC should be pointing that out in the media. He should be saying that as a coaching staff our offensive schemes and OL protection aren't good enough and will have to improve in order to allow the players to succeed.

(Quoted and copied over from the post game thread, as the issues with the offence affect more than one game.)

[notahomer]

Great, nice things to hear but a GREAT GAME SUNDAY by the Lions, will not satisfy me.

Like Buono said, we've been good game, so-so game, good game, so-so game for awhile. If adjustments are made and if the Lions succeed Sunday, great (thats a lot of ifs?). Lets see what they can do on the road too.....

[TheLionKing]

Bring on Montreal. Bring the heat.

Careful what you wish for

[TheLionKing]

You do realize that we're speaking of Jacques Chapdelaine here, the galaxy's most stubborn OC?

Change comes slowly and reluctantly to Jacques.

The force is weak with that one.

Seems like the only time Chapdelaine makes changes is when he is facing the unemployment line. The heat is once again on the Sham Wow guy after last week's debacle in Hamilton.

[Rammer]

You do realize that we're speaking of Jacques Chapdelaine here, the galaxy's most stubborn OC?

Change comes slowly and reluctantly to Jacques.

The force is weak with that one.

Seems like the only time Chapdelaine makes changes is when he is facing the unemployment line. The heat is once again on the Sham Wow guy after last week's debacle in Hamilton.

I would love to think that the heat is on Chaps, but I haven't heard that from anyone that can put heat on him. Benevides threw his OL and RB's under the bus and Norman's lack of experience, but I didn't hear anything about JC or Dorazio being questioned. Unless you glean that other D's are using pressure defenses and that the Lions have to figure that out. Seems like the finger is being pointed, but not at the mirror where it should be.

[TheLionKing]

It's never the coaches' fault or schemes. Failure to succeed is the player's inability to execute.

[Big Time]

Every year I hope the Lions go in a different direction with OC and every year I'm disappointed. They will never get rid of Chaps during the season. At best, they would move him to a different position. I'm guessing Wally is doing a lot of talking to Chap behind the scenes. Chap is partially right that it is up to the players to execute. However his game plan seems so inadequate when dealing with the blitz that I'm almost hoping that the Lions suffer a huge blowout loss so that they have no choice. The worst case scenarios are what happened the last two weeks where the Lions lost a close game to the Als, and made a close game out of the Ticats. These types of games work in Chaps favour because he can turn around say "See? My offense does work, if only we had completed one or two more plays". It's really sad but whenever I see one of Chaps idiot throw wide plays work, I'm a little disappointed because it only encourages him to do more of the same. Chap is so conservative that he only has it in him to deviate from a game plan for a few plays at a time. The first sign of success with his old playbook, he goes right back to it. This is exactly why the Lions can't sustain their offense for 60 minutes, or through an extended number of games.

The Lions need a culture shift on offense. That won't happen until JC is removed from play calling.

[South Pender]

The worst case scenarios are what happened the last two weeks where the Lions lost a close game to the Als, and made a close game out of the Ticats. These types of games work in Chaps favour because he can turn around say "See? My offense does work, if only we had completed one or two more plays".

So true. If the offense continues as it has been, we need a lopsided loss to get the ship righted. So, I'm hoping for (a) more of the same (or nearly the same, with really insignificant changes) and a really embarrassing loss or (b) a truly new offensive strategy with accompanying tactics and a win. I think that the latter is our only hope for post-season success.

[Sir Purrcival]

Every year I hope the Lions go in a different direction with OC and every year I'm disappointed. They will never get rid of Chaps during the season. At best, they would move him to a different position. I'm guessing Wally is doing a lot of talking to Chap behind the scenes. Chap is partially right that it is up to the players to execute. However his game plan seems so inadequate when dealing with the blitz that I'm almost hoping that the Lions suffer a huge blowout loss so that they have no choice. The worst case scenarios are what happened the last two weeks where the Lions lost a close game to the Als, and made a close game out of the Ticats. These types of games work in Chaps favour because he can turn around say "See? My offense does work, if only we had completed one or two more plays". It's really sad but whenever I see one of Chaps idiot throw wide plays work, I'm a little disappointed because it only encourages him to do more of the same. Chap is so conservative that he only has it in him to deviate from a game plan for a few plays at a time. The first sign of success with his old playbook, he goes right back to it. This is exactly why the Lions can't sustain their offense for 60 minutes, or through an extended number of games.

The Lions need a culture shift on offense. That won't happen until JC is removed from play calling.

That was the only down side of the 2011 miracle turn around. I think we were one game away from forcing Wally's hand in regards to the offence. Then we went on to win the Grey Cup. But the time has come. This coaching group has become stale IMO. I am not advocating wholesale changes but I'm thinking Chaps and maybe Dorazio would be good candidates to be replaced. I don't think either would be unemployed long but Wally does need to shake things up. He doesn't hesitate in cutting players before their past due date but he seems to be quite the opposite with coaches.

[JohnHenry]

I took a look at the Alouettes roster.

D Line and LBs. #s and weights. Not big guys. Fast as greyhounds. I would pound it at them. That is how Wally used to go after Don Matthews' defences. Run at them. Wear them down. Amongst other measures.

IMO ...

That reminds me of that Als game here in 2008, I think, when Jarious couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and the OL'men were screaming at the coach to call a running play, which they did 11 straight times in the 2nd Q, straight ahead runs with Joe Smith who gained 120 yards in the Q, breaking the game wide open.

I'd like to see the Lions use a twin TE run package vs. teams like the Als, like how the Stamps killed us in the 1st game of this season.

Nobody seems to be mentioning our new QB coach and the job he's been doing, the first of Lulay's tenure here?

The Lions also have a RB coach who's escaped scrutiny, I wonder what he's been doing?

[Blitz]

I took a look at the Alouettes roster.

D Line and LBs. #s and weights. Not big guys. Fast as greyhounds. I would pound it at them. That is how Wally used to go after Don Matthews' defences. Run at them. Wear them down. Amongst other measures.

IMO ...

That reminds me of that Als game here in 2008, I think, when Jarious couldn't hit the broadside of a barn and the OL'men were screaming at the coach to call a running play, which they did 11 straight times in the 2nd Q, straight ahead runs with Joe Smith who gained 120 yards in the Q, breaking the game wide open.

I'd like to see the Lions use a twin TE run package vs. teams like the Als, like how the Stamps killed us in the 1st game of this season.

Nobody seems to be mentioning our new QB coach and the job he's been doing, the first of Lulay's tenure here?

The Lions also have a RB coach who's escaped scrutiny, I wonder what he's been doing?

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Blitz

No question John Henry that one of the best formations against an all out blitz is to go double tight end and two backs. Its perhaps the only way to be able to successfully run against an all out blitz. However, if that formation is used an offence also has to have the players playing in the tight end postions also be able to be receivers. And you are more than right that both Burratto and Chapdelaine used that formation with success against Matthews defenses.


When we went double tight, we used Jason Clermont and Lyle Green as our double tight ends. That is a big difference than using Baboulas, Lumbala, or Middleton as tight ends. They do not have the capability of chip blocking and then running a pass route downfield. Defenses don't have to account for them in the passing attack in a double tight or single tight end formation.

Using Harris and Brown as split backs also has its issues. Harris is not a good pass blocker nor is Brown and Brown is not much of a threat as a receiver. Lumbala, as a back is not a good runner nor receiver.

I think that Kelly Bates at least has shown results in the past. He influenced the change away from full out zone blocking in 2011 and he did a good job with the run game last season. The results of hiring Jarious Jackson for 2013 are difficult to see so far.

To go double tights and two backs would be great if we actually had the personel to both run and pass out of it. When we go to a power formation the defense brings the full out blitz, they ignore our tight ends and/or Lumbala and focus on the three receivers we send out who can actually run a decent route with some speed and catch the football.

[Toppy Vann]

RB coach is Kelly Bates but if your OC doesn't believe in run then all he can do is teach the guys to block - and it seems Harris is a bit frustrated at this role. Cornish this week gets an award. Harris gets criticized. Yes, not seen evidence of Jarius' influence but we know as a player he was not afraid to speak up. Buck will no doubt have some influence too and already seems to be a positive influence as he never burned bridges.

Yes, Joe Smith ate them up but this was primarily during the Kruck Dorazio regime when the running game was designed to be used and was both exciting and creative. OL love that stuff as do the RBs. But JC hates that and runs so blandly as if he to prove run is not effective.

However the bigger issue this week is the blitz and keeping the QB standing up.

While some feel that the HC is tossing guys under the boss and not taking ownership of the real problem on the offence, I'm hopeful that the HC is quicker than Wally was to react and make the OC bring in the right changes. Wally now that he is GM only is not likely to be as patient with the status quo these days.