On any given day....

[Rammer]

JJ's season with the Lions as the starter was reliant upon the running game, Lions were productive along the ground the season that JC was the OC in Edmonton....hmm.

[South Pender]

Jarious Jackson - 2007 Final 9 Games as Lions starting QB:

Tm - Att - C - % -- Yds - Av - Lg - In - Td
MTL...26 16 61.5% 222 13.9 44 1 1
TOR...29 13 44.8% 264 20.3 55 0 0
SSK....36 17 47.2% 256 15.1 51 1 3
CAL...28 23 82.1% 307 13.3 49 0 3
WPG..33 17 51.5% 241 14.2 41 1 1
EDM...28 15 53.6% 245 16.3 93 1 1
EDM...17 10 58.8% 143 14.3 54 0 2
HAM..17 13 76.5% 206 15.8 36 1 2
CAL...06 05 83.3% 099 19.8 48 0 1

Total over 9 games Jarious went:

125 of 213 (58.6%) for 1983 yds (15.8 yd. avg.) with 5 Int. and 14 Td.

Perhaps not brilliant but pretty darn good, and look at his longest completion in each game...that's pretty impressive and consistent. I believe Jarious went 9 and 2 as the starter in 2007 leading the Lions to a 14-3-1 record. He had another game in Wpg where he threw 5 TD's passes and was brilliant on that day. Not so much on Monday vs Sask. While he's perceived as a great backup QB coming off the bench, he plays better the more he plays. He might have been a good starter if some team had wanted to let him develop...but most teams need to win now to save the coach's derriere.

OK. Now let's have another look. In his 6 years in the CFL prior to this year (2005-2011), JJ had a 54.3% completion average, with 51 TDs and 35 Ints, and an overall QB rating of 81.9. In his last two seasons with the Lions, 2010 and 2011, he completed 54.2% of his passes and had a 46.6 QB rating (2010) and completed 46.2% of his passes, with a 55.8 QB rating in 2011. "Pretty darn good"? I don't think so. By contrast, Travis Lulay this year has somewhere around a 66.5% completion percentage and a 99.2 QB rating. Passing percentages in the low 50% range and QB ratings in the low 80s just aren't good enough to keep an offense competitive. When you're hitting on 50% or so of your passes, far too many drives stall. And it's not that he exactly did a lot with his legs. His rushing average over those 6 years was 4.6 yds. Lulay's this year so far is 7.3. It seems clear to me that the Lions' success in 2007 was in spite of JJ, rather than because of him.

[sj-roc]

Jarious Jackson - 2007 Final 9 Games as Lions starting QB:

Tm - Att - C - % -- Yds - Av - Lg - In - Td
MTL...26 16 61.5% 222 13.9 44 1 1
TOR...29 13 44.8% 264 20.3 55 0 0
SSK....36 17 47.2% 256 15.1 51 1 3
CAL...28 23 82.1% 307 13.3 49 0 3
WPG..33 17 51.5% 241 14.2 41 1 1
EDM...28 15 53.6% 245 16.3 93 1 1
EDM...17 10 58.8% 143 14.3 54 0 2
HAM..17 13 76.5% 206 15.8 36 1 2
CAL...06 05 83.3% 099 19.8 48 0 1

Total over 9 games Jarious went:

125 of 213 (58.6%) for 1983 yds (15.8 yd. avg.) with 5 Int. and 14 Td.

Perhaps not brilliant but pretty darn good, and look at his longest completion in each game...that's pretty impressive and consistent. I believe Jarious went 9 and 2 as the starter in 2007 leading the Lions to a 14-3-1 record. He had another game in Wpg where he threw 5 TD's passes and was brilliant on that day. Not so much on Monday vs Sask. While he's perceived as a great backup QB coming off the bench, he plays better the more he plays. He might have been a good starter if some team had wanted to let him develop...but most teams need to win now to save the coach's derriere.

OK. Now let's have another look. In his 6 years in the CFL prior to this year (2005-2011), JJ had a 54.3% completion average, with 51 TDs and 35 Ints, and an overall QB rating of 81.9. In his last two seasons with the Lions, 2010 and 2011, he completed 54.2% of his passes and had a 46.6 QB rating (2010) and completed 46.2% of his passes, with a 55.8 QB rating in 2011. "Pretty darn good"? I don't think so. By contrast, Travis Lulay this year has somewhere around a 66.5% completion percentage and a 99.2 QB rating. Passing percentages in the low 50% range and QB ratings in the low 80s just aren't good enough to keep an offense competitive. When you're hitting on 50% or so of your passes, far too many drives stall. And it's not that he exactly did a lot with his legs. His rushing average over those 6 years was 4.6 yds. Lulay's this year so far is 7.3. It seems clear to me that the Lions' success in 2007 was in spite of JJ, rather than because of him.

Don't really have a dog in this fight but just wondering, weren't a lot of his rushes QB plunges in short yardage situations, 2nd & 1, 3rd & inches and such? What's his avg if you take those out? By the same token Lulay normally exits in that scenario, which doesn't hamper his avg to the same extent. I can recall Baller mentioned, during a game broadcast at one point several years ago, that JJ as a Lion in short yardage situations had something like 30 carries totalling around 30-35 yds. No mistake though that TL is the more mobile of the two.

[JohnHenry]

Jarious Jackson - 2007 Final 9 Games as Lions starting QB:

Tm - Att - C - % -- Yds - Av - Lg - In - Td
MTL...26 16 61.5% 222 13.9 44 1 1
TOR...29 13 44.8% 264 20.3 55 0 0
SSK....36 17 47.2% 256 15.1 51 1 3
CAL...28 23 82.1% 307 13.3 49 0 3
WPG..33 17 51.5% 241 14.2 41 1 1
EDM...28 15 53.6% 245 16.3 93 1 1
EDM...17 10 58.8% 143 14.3 54 0 2
HAM..17 13 76.5% 206 15.8 36 1 2
CAL...06 05 83.3% 099 19.8 48 0 1

Total over 9 games Jarious went:

125 of 213 (58.6%) for 1983 yds (15.8 yd. avg.) with 5 Int. and 14 Td.

Perhaps not brilliant but pretty darn good, and look at his longest completion in each game...that's pretty impressive and consistent. I believe Jarious went 9 and 2 as the starter in 2007 leading the Lions to a 14-3-1 record. He had another game in Wpg where he threw 5 TD's passes and was brilliant on that day. Not so much on Monday vs Sask. While he's perceived as a great backup QB coming off the bench, he plays better the more he plays. He might have been a good starter if some team had wanted to let him develop...but most teams need to win now to save the coach's derriere.

OK. Now let's have another look. In his 6 years in the CFL prior to this year (2005-2011), JJ had a 54.3% completion average, with 51 TDs and 35 Ints, and an overall QB rating of 81.9. In his last two seasons with the Lions, 2010 and 2011, he completed 54.2% of his passes and had a 46.6 QB rating (2010) and completed 46.2% of his passes, with a 55.8 QB rating in 2011. "Pretty darn good"? I don't think so. By contrast, Travis Lulay this year has somewhere around a 66.5% completion percentage and a 99.2 QB rating. Passing percentages in the low 50% range and QB ratings in the low 80s just aren't good enough to keep an offense competitive. When you're hitting on 50% or so of your passes, far too many drives stall. And it's not that he exactly did a lot with his legs. His rushing average over those 6 years was 4.6 yds. Lulay's this year so far is 7.3. It seems clear to me that the Lions' success in 2007 was in spite of JJ, rather than because of him.

I never claimed Jarious had a brilliant career, it was you, South Pender, who said: "I don't recall ever seeing him brilliant." I just refreshed your memory about Jarious' brilliant game vs Wpg where he passed for over 400 yds, 5 TD's and no Int's. Brilliant! He had several other brilliant games I could also remind you of...and I pointed out he played pretty darn well for a 9-game stretch in 2007 as the starter. What his passing percentage was in 2011 with 18 completions, or his rushing average compared to Lulay has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you can recall ever seeing him brilliant.

[South Pender]

I never claimed Jarious had a brilliant career, it was you, South Pender, who said: "I don't recall ever seeing him brilliant." I just refreshed your memory about Jarious' brilliant game vs Wpg where he passed for over 400 yds, 5 TD's and no Int's. Brilliant! He had several other brilliant games I could also remind you of...and I pointed out he played pretty darn well for a 9-game stretch in 2007 as the starter. What his passing percentage was in 2011 with 18 completions, or his rushing average compared to Lulay has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you can recall ever seeing him brilliant.

I wasn't claiming you said JJ had a brilliant career; rather I was taking mild issue with the "pretty darn good" assessment. I guess I must have missed his brilliant games, because my recollection of seeing JJ come off the bench in those years was one of instantly feeling anxious. However, I get your point: he did have several good games in that 6-year stretch. Just a minor nit to pick: certainly my noting his passing percentage in 2011 and comparing his rushing average to Lulay's does factor into my assessment of not recalling seeing him brilliant--those two were components of the recollection of non-brilliance!

[South Pender]

Don't really have a dog in this fight but just wondering, weren't a lot of his rushes QB plunges in short yardage situations, 2nd & 1, 3rd & inches and such? What's his avg if you take those out? By the same token Lulay normally exits in that scenario, which doesn't hamper his avg to the same extent. I can recall Baller mentioned, during a game broadcast at one point several years ago, that JJ as a Lion in short yardage situations had something like 30 carries totalling around 30-35 yds. No mistake though that TL is the more mobile of the two.

Excellent point, sj-roc. That certainly does explain some of the difference.