Sad
As someone who lost a brother to suicide I can say its a wound that never heals. There is always something to remind us of him or the tragedy
I'm sure that wound is far deeper for my parents
Sad Lion News.....
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I've lost a couple of very close friends to suicide. I do not feel my friends choice of suicide were selfish. I still miss them and wish they'd wanted to live but I respect them regardless.
I work in the mental health field and this issue strikes quite close to home.
I wish the Alexander family the best.
I work in the mental health field and this issue strikes quite close to home.
I wish the Alexander family the best.
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Wakesbetterthanyou
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I wont even justify that disgusting remark with a response.KnowItAll wrote:Thats one of the biggest *poop* statements I have seen on any forum. I have lived with it almost every day as well, for almost 50 yrs. Doesnt make either one of us an expert. However, your statement does make you very narrow minded and ignorant on the subject, regardless of your personal experience and feelings.Wakesbetterthanyou wrote: Suicide is a decision made by someone so selfish they cannot see beyond their own eyes. Trust me i kno, and i live with it everyday.
For one thing, think of what that says to a child whose parent couldnt cope. Do you want to say to that child that the parent didnt care enough about them to live? Sometimes, a parent dies because however misguided, they think it is best for their kid(s). There are all kinds of unselfish reasons for suicide. Who the hell do you think you are to declare there is not.
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No Ordinary Joe
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This is a pretty touchy subject and this thread may not be the proper vehicle to voice personal opinions on suicide. While I can definitely see and in some ways even understand Wakesbetterthanyou's views, I don't think it's very tactful in a thread that is here to offer support and condolences to Ray Alexander and his family.
Based on the number of players and media types who visit this forum, we may not always be aware of who is reading what around here, and if Ray Alexander himself happened to stop by and see this thread I'm sure reading posts about his daughter being selfish is not the best thing to read at this time and would only serve to make him feel worse about the situation and that's not what any of us want.
As somebody who dealt with many difficulties when I was younger, suicide was something that definitely crossed my mind many times when I was younger. I had two very close friends attempt suicide which only helped to make my feelings of sadness and despair stronger. Thankfully both of them were unsuccessful. But, I can definitely sympathize with anybody who has ever lost somebody close to them from a suicide attempt. I felt so lost just knowing that they even attempted, I can only imagine how much worse I would have felt had either of them succeeded.
Based on the number of players and media types who visit this forum, we may not always be aware of who is reading what around here, and if Ray Alexander himself happened to stop by and see this thread I'm sure reading posts about his daughter being selfish is not the best thing to read at this time and would only serve to make him feel worse about the situation and that's not what any of us want.
As somebody who dealt with many difficulties when I was younger, suicide was something that definitely crossed my mind many times when I was younger. I had two very close friends attempt suicide which only helped to make my feelings of sadness and despair stronger. Thankfully both of them were unsuccessful. But, I can definitely sympathize with anybody who has ever lost somebody close to them from a suicide attempt. I felt so lost just knowing that they even attempted, I can only imagine how much worse I would have felt had either of them succeeded.
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Wakesbetterthanyou
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tru, way to bring me back to earth noj. its a very touchy subject for me, as are politics and abortion. I should kno better than to get into a heated discussion about any of the three in such a thread. my bad y'all.No Ordinary Joe wrote:This is a pretty touchy subject and this thread may not be the proper vehicle to voice personal opinions on suicide. While I can definitely see and in some ways even understand Wakesbetterthanyou's views, I don't think it's very tactful in a thread that is here to offer support and condolences to Ray Alexander and his family.
Based on the number of players and media types who visit this forum, we may not always be aware of who is reading what around here, and if Ray Alexander himself happened to stop by and see this thread I'm sure reading posts about his daughter being selfish is not the best thing to read at this time and would only serve to make him feel worse about the situation and that's not what any of us want.
As somebody who dealt with many difficulties when I was younger, suicide was something that definitely crossed my mind many times when I was younger. I had two very close friends attempt suicide which only helped to make my feelings of sadness and despair stronger. Thankfully both of them were unsuccessful. But, I can definitely sympathize with anybody who has ever lost somebody close to them from a suicide attempt. I felt so lost just knowing that they even attempted, I can only imagine how much worse I would have felt had either of them succeeded.
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Toppy Vann
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Normally, I'd be saying the same thing as you NOJ. Keep the personal comments on the subject separate from the condolence tone of messages. However, with this topic I am not sure that it is bad to see deeply rooted feelings being expressed. Maybe, it is actually better to get this stuff out in the open and talk about it that can be a help to others. I know Wakes isn't being disrespectful in what he is saying as he is generalizing and referring to his own experience and not this tragedy.
There was a similar issue with a blogger who wrote about a tragic drowning of a friend here in Hong Kong. The blogger didn't know him but was on the same company boat that our friend fell from. His blog "Death on Dragon Boat Day" was written with a bit of a judgmental tone about drinking and boating. When it was found accidentally by a friend, some of Eric's very close friends from the US took issue with it and others thanked the guy including his sister for giving them the story of the last hours of Eric's life. It put the issue into perspective for all of us.
There was a similar issue with a blogger who wrote about a tragic drowning of a friend here in Hong Kong. The blogger didn't know him but was on the same company boat that our friend fell from. His blog "Death on Dragon Boat Day" was written with a bit of a judgmental tone about drinking and boating. When it was found accidentally by a friend, some of Eric's very close friends from the US took issue with it and others thanked the guy including his sister for giving them the story of the last hours of Eric's life. It put the issue into perspective for all of us.
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Soundy
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After what we've seen with the Ackles and Matthews threads, I'm amazed it took until the end of the first page for the mudslinging to start...No Ordinary Joe wrote:This is a pretty touchy subject and this thread may not be the proper vehicle to voice personal opinions on suicide.
Condolences to Ray and his family... I can't say I know anyone who's committed suicide (none I can think of right off at least) but I know a good friend of my brother's offed himself in high school, so I've seen the pain it can bring to others. The real irony of it, is that the boy's father was the school counselor...
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This just rips your heart out. Like many others, I have felt the effects of suicide, although not nearly as closely as Nelson95 did with a brother, or in this case Ray Alexander with a child. I simply cannot imagine that pain. (My heart goes out to you, man.)
One of the worst days of my life, bar none, came in April of 2003 when one of my Midget players took his own life at age 17. This was a kid who was living in a group home, and who had obviously had a number of struggles in his life. One of them was with mental illness, and although football was a terrific avenue for him, sadly we couldn't keep him on the field 24/7/365. As Head Coach, I had to speak at the funeral. To this day, I'm still not quite sure how I did it, and without my wife there to support me I probably couldn't have.
Until the day I die, I will always remember looking out over that crowd, and seeing how much raw emotion and overwheming pain was on the faces of James' teammates, family, and friends. Every one of them was thinking what I had been thinking -- was there something else we could have done? Did we fail James in some way? It haunted me for an awful long time, and I was "just" his football coach. What about the group home leader, who was also our manager/trainer? He had given everything to help James, yet there he was at his funeral. How about his guilt and pain? It was horrendous.
I understand the words of the poster above who talked about suicide being a selfish act. That is part of the anger that is unleashed when someone commits suicide, and it is a very natural emotion. Still, you have to consider that at the end of the day, suicide is an irrational act carried out by people who are not of sound mind at the time. In many cases, they are struggling with undiagnosed, untreated, or mistreated mental illness. Those struggling with depression, bipolar disorder, etc. need our help and support, not our scorn and contempt.
My heart goes out to Ray Alexander today. As a fellow parent, I cannot even imagine the places he has been in the last few days.
One of the worst days of my life, bar none, came in April of 2003 when one of my Midget players took his own life at age 17. This was a kid who was living in a group home, and who had obviously had a number of struggles in his life. One of them was with mental illness, and although football was a terrific avenue for him, sadly we couldn't keep him on the field 24/7/365. As Head Coach, I had to speak at the funeral. To this day, I'm still not quite sure how I did it, and without my wife there to support me I probably couldn't have.
Until the day I die, I will always remember looking out over that crowd, and seeing how much raw emotion and overwheming pain was on the faces of James' teammates, family, and friends. Every one of them was thinking what I had been thinking -- was there something else we could have done? Did we fail James in some way? It haunted me for an awful long time, and I was "just" his football coach. What about the group home leader, who was also our manager/trainer? He had given everything to help James, yet there he was at his funeral. How about his guilt and pain? It was horrendous.
I understand the words of the poster above who talked about suicide being a selfish act. That is part of the anger that is unleashed when someone commits suicide, and it is a very natural emotion. Still, you have to consider that at the end of the day, suicide is an irrational act carried out by people who are not of sound mind at the time. In many cases, they are struggling with undiagnosed, untreated, or mistreated mental illness. Those struggling with depression, bipolar disorder, etc. need our help and support, not our scorn and contempt.
My heart goes out to Ray Alexander today. As a fellow parent, I cannot even imagine the places he has been in the last few days.
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I didn't post this thread thinking that it would illicit this kind of discussion. It was solely for the purpose to express sadness of losing ones child and that child being a former Lion greats child. It is sad to lose any child, that is not the expectation of any parent, nor should it be. To lose one by suicide, will always leave a parent questioning, and as we have read here, a polarized opinion.
I am glad you shared your situation with us Lionut, I think that we can conclude from your pain of dealing with the aftermath of suicide, that it touches all that are close very deeply. Perhaps this is why emotions are being showcased more here than other subjects, especially knowing that we all are attempting to be sensitive from a distance here.
With that said, can we please not use personal attacks on anybodies viewpoint, it doesn't help open a difficult subject to discussion.
I am glad you shared your situation with us Lionut, I think that we can conclude from your pain of dealing with the aftermath of suicide, that it touches all that are close very deeply. Perhaps this is why emotions are being showcased more here than other subjects, especially knowing that we all are attempting to be sensitive from a distance here.
With that said, can we please not use personal attacks on anybodies viewpoint, it doesn't help open a difficult subject to discussion.
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