More details on the move to Empire

[Rammer]

With this being a one season hit, it is going to be like one or the other.

[Lionheart]

That's what scares me. The "or the other" is a very real possibility.

[SammyGreene]

So you decided to renew today too?

Nope, I'm going to wait for them to call me.

I expect their season ticket base to plummet this year with many sitting on the fence unsure what the experience will be in a temporary stadium (never mind the still for certain site) and not willing to commit to 10 games right now. I do expect it to be a huge hit, however, with casual fans looking to take in 2 or 3 games, especially in the summer months with most games selling out.

The threat of losing your location at BC Place by not renewing doesn't have significant weight when you have a 60,000 seat stadium to sell.

The stadium situation will be a good excuse but there are also many like Lionheart with a bad taste in their mouths from three ugly losses at home, never mind what happened on the road and the playoffs too.

There just seems to be plenty of reasons to take a "wait and see" approach to 2010.

[Whisperin' Jimmy]

There just seems to be plenty of reasons to take a "wait and see" approach to 2010.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why real CFL fans look down their noses at Vancouverites. "We're not winning! Screw this, I'm outta here!" If all fans were like this, Hamilton would have folded years ago.

This is an 8-team league, for heaven's sake. Four of the teams are going to be below average. This year it happened to be us. However, you are not actually obliged to jump off the bandwagon. You could believe that the team is trying to improve, and stick with them.

[Spud387]

There just seems to be plenty of reasons to take a "wait and see" approach to 2010.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why real CFL fans look down their noses at Vancouverites. "We're not winning! Screw this, I'm outta here!" If all fans were like this, Hamilton would have folded years ago.

This is an 8-team league, for heaven's sake. Four of the teams are going to be below average. This year it happened to be us. However, you are not actually obliged to jump off the bandwagon. You could believe that the team is trying to improve, and stick with them.

I renewed the moment I could... I can't believe some people here are thinking about it because of what the stadium might be like. If you have kids and might not be able to physically get to where it will be I can understand... but just based on the stadium itself?? come on...

[Lionheart]

There just seems to be plenty of reasons to take a "wait and see" approach to 2010.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why real CFL fans look down their noses at Vancouverites.

I find this comment ignorant and offensive.

[Lionheart]

spud, others. just to clarify my thoughts on this in case of confusion..

spud I don't think you included me in that comment but if you've read many previous posts you know the stadium is not an issue with me. I know we don't need to get into the "dome/outdoor" stadium debate again but in the past I would ultimately vote for dome. However loving variety in my life and usually never *beeotch* about life (insert joke here) I'm looking forward to the Tempire. I"m with David on this.. this is gonna be cool.. different/un-boring. The nice days will be awesome.. I"m also the only one that said he'd walk from Renfrew station.

Where my real thoughts of not renewing come from were nailed by SammyGreene. I didn't get as much as a little smidge of response that our problems will be looked at. After a few weeks went by this only grew to frustration. As a REAL fan becoming a casual for a year and not having to subsidize two seats while up in paradise would be a way to express my displeasure.

I could go on but we've all heard it before. Having said that I did not respond in the "scapegoat" thread because I know it's not fair so early in the offseason to make any comments like that.

[B.C.FAN]

spud, others. just to clarify my thoughts on this in case of confusion..

spud I don't think you included me in that comment but if you've read many previous posts you know the stadium is not an issue with me. I know we don't need to get into the "dome/outdoor" stadium debate again but in the past I would ultimately vote for dome. However loving variety in my life and usually never *beeotch* about life (insert joke here) I'm looking forward to the Tempire. I"m with David on this.. this is gonna be cool.. different/un-boring. The nice days will be awesome.. I"m also the only one that said he'd walk from Renfrew station.

Where my real thoughts of not renewing come from were nailed by SammyGreene. I didn't get as much as a little smidge of response that our problems will be looked at. After a few weeks went by this only grew to frustration. As a REAL fan becoming a casual for a year and not having to subsidize two seats while up in paradise would be a way to express my displeasure.

I could go on but we've all heard it before. Having said that I did not respond in the "scapegoat" thread because I know it's not fair so early in the offseason to make any comments like that.

Good post. Thanks for clarifying. I'm with you on looking forward to one season at Tempire while preferring a dome in general.

I like to analyze the team's performance and engage in debate and criticism but I don't base my renewal decisions on the team's record or prospects for the coming season or its management and coaching decisions. I love football and wouldn't miss a game if I could help it. I supported the Lions for decades without seeing a home playoff game. Fans in other cities and other sports stand by their teams for decades without ever sharing in a championship. I understand and respect their loyalty. Lions fans have been spoiled for the past decade.

[Whisperin' Jimmy]

I like to analyze the team's performance and engage in debate and criticism but I don't base my renewal decisions on the team's record or prospects for the coming season or its management and coaching decisions. I love football and wouldn't miss a game if I could help it. I supported the Lions for decades without seeing a home playoff game. Fans in other cities and other sports stand by their teams for decades without ever sharing in a chanpionship. I understand and respect their loyalty. Lions fans have been spoiled for the past decade.

Hear, hear! Exactly what I was thinking, albeit phrased more elegantly.

And I'll stand by my comments, Lionheart. It seems like Vancouverites can be discouraged from attending a Lions game by a stiff breeze or a bad hair day. I may be getting crotchety, but I just hate hate hate hearing people bail on the team when the chips are down. ("Offensive"? Really? Good thing you didn't diss the Clash or Battlestar Galactica, 'cuz then I'd REALLY have unloaded!)

[Canuck_4_Life]

Being of the younger generation of Lions fans, and having had a taste of outdoor football, I'm actually looking forward to next season, all other factors nothwithstanding. Then again, being a born and bred Vancouverite, I'll be packing my Goretex jacket and my shades at all times.

I'm sure there's plenty in my age bracket or younger than me that have never experienced outdoor football. If it weren't for next season, I'd be looking for an excuse to head back to Hamilton and Ivor Wynne Stadium.

[Spud387]

spud, others. just to clarify my thoughts on this in case of confusion..

spud I don't think you included me in that comment but if you've read many previous posts you know the stadium is not an issue with me. I know we don't need to get into the "dome/outdoor" stadium debate again but in the past I would ultimately vote for dome. However loving variety in my life and usually never *beeotch* about life (insert joke here) I'm looking forward to the Tempire. I"m with David on this.. this is gonna be cool.. different/un-boring. The nice days will be awesome.. I"m also the only one that said he'd walk from Renfrew station.

Where my real thoughts of not renewing come from were nailed by SammyGreene. I didn't get as much as a little smidge of response that our problems will be looked at. After a few weeks went by this only grew to frustration. As a REAL fan becoming a casual for a year and not having to subsidize two seats while up in paradise would be a way to express my displeasure.

I could go on but we've all heard it before. Having said that I did not respond in the "scapegoat" thread because I know it's not fair so early in the offseason to make any comments like that.

I didn't really mean to direct it at anyone, just saying that, as we are all die hard lions fans here... we have had a bunch of good seasons, 1 mediocre... i don't see why someone would want to not renew? I can understand if getting to Tempire is really hard and why then someone might not renew, but to me, having a temporary feeling stadium and a team that had 1 mediocre season should not warrant not renewing. to me at least...

[SammyGreene]

There just seems to be plenty of reasons to take a "wait and see" approach to 2010.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why real CFL fans look down their noses at Vancouverites. "We're not winning! Screw this, I'm outta here!" If all fans were like this, Hamilton would have folded years ago.

This is an 8-team league, for heaven's sake. Four of the teams are going to be below average. This year it happened to be us. However, you are not actually obliged to jump off the bandwagon. You could believe that the team is trying to improve, and stick with them.

Let me first start off by saying we renewed our 4 tickets and are looking forward to the outdoor experience.

The Lions season ticket base dipped this past season and their average attendance dropped by over 6,000 per game. A number of season ticket holders in our section weren't back this year and that was coming off a season (2008) that ended a few yards short of getting to the Grey Cup.
So what is the response going to be when the team's performance went further south (including three home blowouts that saw the bulk of the fans gone by the start of the 4th quarter) in 2009 and the stadium situation still being rather unclear? For example, four people sitting next to us are taking a pass on "Tempire" but will be back in 2011.

The Lions season ticket base maxed out this decade at about 24,000 but how many of those are going to keeping renewing regardless of how the team plays? My guess is more like 16,000 or 17,000 which is at least an improvement on the late 1990s. You just have to look at what happen to the attendance in the 1980s to see a similar ebb and flow.

Are there a lot of fair weather football fans in Vancouver? Absolutely and it's been that way for much of the Lions existence. That's what my post was based on.

[Whisperin' Jimmy]

Are there a lot of fair weather football fans in Vancouver? Absolutely and it's been that way for much of the Lions existence. That's what my post was based on.

Fair enough! That's a pretty shrewd analysis. If you can and have bought a ticket, criticize away! You've earned it.

But I reserve the right to throw figurative brickbats at that fair weather demographic. I won't give up hoping we can change that culture, especially now that the league is healthier than ever. And if a "fan" stays away in some misguided protest over coaching or personnel decisions (rather than because of health or money issues, for instance), he immediately loses my sympathy. That sort of negativism can have a snowball effect, as your history shows, and I don't want to see it happen again.

[Rammer]

Are there a lot of fair weather football fans in Vancouver? Absolutely and it's been that way for much of the Lions existence. That's what my post was based on.

Fair enough! That's a pretty shrewd analysis. If you can and have bought a ticket, criticize away! You've earned it.

But I reserve the right to throw figurative brickbats at that fair weather demographic. I won't give up hoping we can change that culture, especially now that the league is healthier than ever. And if a "fan" stays away in some misguided protest over coaching or personnel decisions (rather than because of health or money issues, for instance), he immediately loses my sympathy. That sort of negativism can have a snowball effect, as your history shows, and I don't want to see it happen again.

While it does have a snowball effect, it is up to the club to rectify that from gaining momentum. Lions dropped up to 4K in ST holders last season, don't expect that base to increase as the move to Tempire won't increase the that base, and the amount of times I sat without coming close to my $200 - $300 spent on game night money's worth. In fact, I would dare say that the Lions couldn't have paid me that much to sit and watch the Stamps, Bombers and Eskimo's to watch, had I been given Nostradamus predictions of the events of those particular games results and efforts. The season that was will factor into the equation, but I suspect sunny days will draw a great walk up crowd, mediocre weather won't, and how the Lions are playing will always be a factor in the number of fans in the stands, regardless.

[Robbie]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why real CFL fans look down their noses at Vancouverites. "We're not winning! Screw this, I'm outta here!" If all fans were like this, Hamilton would have folded years ago.

Two previous examples state otherwise.

For most Lion fans, the most exciting non-championship season would be 1991 with attendance often exceeding 40,000+ but was the team winning much? A 11-7 is not terrible but considering the team was only 4-5 at home and a third place finish caused by an embarrassing loss to the worst team in the league the regular season finale plus a terrible defence, I wouldn't say the team was winning much at all. And yet, Vancouverites attended Lions games despite a losing record at home.

I for one would prefer the highly underrated season of 1999 in which the Lions led the west division throughout the season and finished first in the west for the first time in 12 years to host a playoff game. And yet, typical home attendance in 1999 was often less than 20,000 even though the club finished with a respectable 13-5 season and first in the west since 1987.