Nathan Rourke Waived by Jacksonville Jaguars

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Blitz
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And Kelly DOES get it, having re-upped today with the Argos for three years.

Coast Mountain Lion
He got some very impressive money too. I wonder what Rourke is thinking right now as he sees how much money Kelly signed for.
Nathan was a starting QB in Div I US college ball ; the NFL has an extensive scouting machine and surely knew of him (though Ohio is not a Div I powerhouse program that they favor); so they could see he was one of the best running QBs in all of US college ball, plus led his team to 3 straight seasons of Bowl wins; however, many of the so-called expert QB scouts there might have said they had reservations about his pure passing arm being able to translate to NFL success (and thus he only got a brief look as a receiver project (Giants i think it was?) coming out of college ball.

OV 54:40
But they don't always get it right OV,,,..as evidenced recently by Trey Lance and Baker Mayfield for example and then look at last years success by Seahawks Gino Smith after warming the pine for years.
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Toppy Vann
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Coast Mountain Lion wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 8:08 pm
cromartie wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:40 am

Chad Kelly gets it, much to the benefit of the Argonauts who have the makings of a couple of bankable stars now. Rourke should have gotten it to and if he did he'd be the standard bearer of Canadian football.
And Kelly DOES get it, having re-upped today with the Argos for three years. He's talked a lot about trying out for the NFL, but he can read the writing on the wall.
I think Chad Kelly is a good QB and I'm impressed with how he's shown good character and leadership this season. There was a comment in an in-game interview last Argo's game where the REC said that Kelly keeps them all humble as he is himself. The stories of him staying in Toronto off-season and getting other receivers there last year despite his HC saying he's not being handed the starters job and how they had to send him home at night. He watched tons of film plus the first 3 years play of Bo Levi Mitchell.

But I'd not yet say that Nathan Rourke doesn't get it as Kelly is older and his former reputation would need more time to repair - but so far he's looking very good with the Argos.

This new contract might suggest that all he's learned about the Argos history and the CFL means he knows he'd be happy to be a top QB here and he's not looking to head off to the NFL at the first chance. I'm not sure of that but I hope so for the CFL's sake.

I think Dinwiddie is a very good HC and Kelly's relationship with him could be for a long time.

I'm still thinking Rourke foresaw this outcome. He knew that Beathard was their no. 2 for sure based on what they said the 4.5 million contract he signed. But as Dusty said it's not inconceivable he'll end up dressing - and play this year - if a QB goes down as they only have 3. As Cromartie said earlier, Beathard hadn't played as well as he has this pre-season. That may be what Rourke is banking on.

The points here are all great points and any of us can be proven right or wrong.

Very compelling as an argument against Rourke is that GMs bring people in and pay big dollars and they're not likely to dump their picks and look bad for someone undrafted.

Edit: I hadn't heard of Kelly's new deal until I read it here. Argos and MLSE are betting the bank on him and he's moved to Toronto so I 'm thinking it's CFL long term and he sees it that way too. Good for the Argos and this league.

It'd be great if Rourke were here but I'm thinking we'll not see him very soon.
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cromartie
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:40 am


For this fan Rourke's reads were astonishingly fast. Then the quick delivery, with excellent accuracy. And his escape instincts are out of this world.

A lot like Flutie? Absolutely. Of course the NFL did not like Flutie. Too small, etc. Eventually he got some time there, although it was far from optimal time. I did think that Jackie Parker was the all time greatest CFL player, but that is another issue.
I actually don't agree with this. Rourke's reads were as fast as they were because he spent all of his formative football years playing Canadian football. Accordingly, it's an operating system, for lack of a better term, that didn't have to be installed by a transition from the American game to the Canadian one, which can take a QB a year or so to master.

Flutie thrived when he reached Hufnagel's system. It pared down the decision making and gave him a key mismatch to focus on. And he thrived better than anyone at it and adapted quickly. And more power to him for it. But the pathways and strengths are very different between the two, I think. Flutie decided on the run, Rourke decided in the pocket and ran when he had to. I also think Flutie needed the wider field to thrive whereas Rourke doesn't.
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cromartie wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2023 9:09 am
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:40 am


For this fan Rourke's reads were astonishingly fast. Then the quick delivery, with excellent accuracy. And his escape instincts are out of this world.

A lot like Flutie? Absolutely. Of course the NFL did not like Flutie. Too small, etc. Eventually he got some time there, although it was far from optimal time. I did think that Jackie Parker was the all time greatest CFL player, but that is another issue.
I actually don't agree with this. Rourke's reads were as fast as they were because he spent all of his formative football years playing Canadian football. Accordingly, it's an operating system, for lack of a better term, that didn't have to be installed by a transition from the American game to the Canadian one, which can take a QB a year or so to master.
Well, when did you and I ever agree on anything?
Rourke's reads were as fast as they were because he spent all of his formative football years playing Canadian football. -- cromartie

He played minor football for the Burlington Stampeders before playing for three years at Holy Trinity Catholic Secondary School in Oakville.[2] He transferred to Edgewood Academy in Elmore, Alabama, for his senior season of high school football.[3] After his grade 12 season, he committed to play college football at Fort Scott Community College in Fort Scott, Kansas.

-- Wikipedia as a fast reference, although I have read a detailed article tracking his early career, and have it saved on a hard drive somewhere.
"he spent all of his formative years playing Canadian football" -- No. Grade 12 in the USA. College in the USA.

You can have the last word. And I will stand by what I wrote. I feel like this is old times, with cromartie looking to argue fine points. Gawd.

Not here to argue or debate, but to celebrate Nathan Rourke.
Last edited by WestCoastJoe on Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Toppy Vann
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I'm no fan of Canadians heading to the NFL but my sense of Nathan Rourke is that his gamble is a reasonable, calculated gamble.

https://bvmsports.com/2022/02/17/nathan ... -bc-lions/

It's far too early to pronounce Rourke's NFL dream dead based on other players in the past and actual facts like how GMs value and get rated for their own picks.
Rourke is a unique player who seems like a good decision-maker. If their starter goes down or the back up does an achilles in practice, he's going to be on that active game day roster!

As an aside, Nathan Rourke consistently attributes his learning from playing in the Burlington Minor Football Association in Canada where they had tons of talent and rarely lost. He left after a year of HS ball only as he wasn't getting interest from US Div 1 schools, etc.

Rourke has been a regular this off season in Vancouver working out with other CFL QBs and HS, college players who want to be pros etc in North Van with Rob Williams.

While the doubters may prove right that he won't get a fair shot in the NFL and actually be a no.2 with a path to no.1 with the career Rourke wants,
we can only look to the wisdom of the great Yogi Berra who cautioned. that "It ain't over til it's over." Rourke also listened to Yogi in making his NFL decision as Yogi advised "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

Yogi also astutely observed that "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."

"Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical." Same with football and Rourke has the 90% mental and the "other half" physical.

So for Nathan Rourke doubters Yogi advises us all that " You can observe a lot just by watching."
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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B.C.FAN
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Love the Yogi quotes, Toppy. Rourke is clearly not going to give up his NFL dream now, knowing he can still return to the CFL in a few years and have a lucrative career.
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Toppy Vann
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:08 pm
Love the Yogi quotes, Toppy. Rourke is clearly not going to give up his NFL dream now, knowing he can still return to the CFL in a few years and have a lucrative career.
For me the Yogi Berra quotes are hilarious as I grew up watching him play and later manage. He's hilarious and oft quoted in business circles.

Yes, Rourke can return as he's 24. I'd have loved to see him stay and build the fan base here but he's got to do what he dreamed of while he can.

Chad Kelly is 29 and this article outlines and Kelly's radio interview suggest why he's likely here to stay in the CFL and Toronto.

Oh just listening and Kelly is talking his small town football days and how he needed this chance and how one year ago in August he met his Toronto g/f so this is home for him now. He just said he'd be happy finishing in the CFL and not in the NFL. How his family is 2 hours away so it's all good here.

https://www.tsn.ca/cfl/naylor-chad-kell ... -1.2002463

The Chad Kelly signing is great and MLSE and the Argos are investing him in building that team.
Pinball said he's their entire team leader and that's not because he's QB. You hear that from Argo players at every interview.


JC Abott on 3 Down Nation on Chad Kelly sounds less positive in his one line on Rourke in the NFL :


[
u]Nevertheless, the story of Nathan Rourke has provided a cautionary tale for how the league down south values CFL quarterbacks in the pecking order. Kelly has now secured financial certainty that will be difficult to turn down. In exchange, the Argonauts have locked down a franchise player who has dazzled on the field and at the box office.[/u]
https://3downnation.com/2023/09/01/this ... -question/
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WestCoastJoe
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Toppy Vann wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:36 am
While the doubters may prove right that he won't get a fair shot in the NFL and actually be a no.2 with a path to no.1 with the career Rourke wants, we can only look to the wisdom of the great Yogi Berra who cautioned. that "It ain't over til it's over."

Rourke also listened to Yogi in making his NFL decision as Yogi advised "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."

Yogi also astutely observed that "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future."

"Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical." Same with football and Rourke has the 90% mental and the "other half" physical.

So for Nathan Rourke doubters Yogi advises us all that " You can observe a lot just by watching."
Hey, Toppy. Good to see you and Blitz posting.

I'vs been entertained and mesmerized by Yogi's quotes for decades. So much wisdom packed into Rubik's cubes.

Re a very popular New York restaurant, Yogi said: ''Ah, nobody goes there anymore; it's always too crowded.''

Being interviewed, as the reporter looked at Yogi's hands: ''I'm wearing these gloves for my hands.''

''It's deja vu all over again.''

After dropping a fly ball in left field, with the tricky shadows of Yankee Stadium making it a challenge: ''It gets late early out there.''

And this beauty: ''In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.''
a29cfcaeb6c27d486c97dfe82d39e27b--sports-illustrated-covers-yogi-berra.jpg
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John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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I always liked "you better go to your friends' funerals or they might not come to yours". (Paraphrased)
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WestCoastJoe
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Hambone wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:01 pm
I always liked "you better go to your friends' funerals or they might not come to yours". (Paraphrased)
Excellent one.

Here is one from Rocky Bridges, a baseball manager, lamenting his team's failures: "I coached 'em good, but they sure did play bad."
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Blitz
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WestCoastJoe wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:40 am


For this fan Rourke's reads were astonishingly fast. Then the quick delivery, with excellent accuracy. And his escape instincts are out of this world.

A lot like Flutie? Absolutely. Of course the NFL did not like Flutie. Too small, etc. Eventually he got some time there, although it was far from optimal time. I did think that Jackie Parker was the all time greatest CFL player, but that is another issue.

cromartie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 9:09 am

I actually don't agree with this. Rourke's reads were as fast as they were because he spent all of his formative football years playing Canadian football. Accordingly, it's an operating system, for lack of a better term, that didn't have to be installed by a transition from the American game to the Canadian one, which can take a QB a year or so to master.

One of the best things about Lionbackers, when operating at its best, is that it provides an opportunity for a diversity of viewpoints on the topic of football within an environment that those differing viewpoints will be respected, even if not always agreed with.

In a world of increasing cancel culture, where a differing viewpoint becomes an ego injury, where 'safe zones' are created so one does not hear a dffering view, and in a world in which too many males are increasingly behaving like petulant toddlers mired in a constant state of resentment or anger if they don't get their way, it’s a good thing to post on a website in which there is not pressure to become a carbon copy of everyone else.

At the same time, its also a good thing to know that Lionbackers is also a website in which most Lionbacker posters support other posters views, whenever possible, and are often kind and positive when doing so. For tens of thousands of years an individual’s identity was almost entirely subsumed by the tribe to which he or she belonged. Each person built up his and her sense of worth by contributing to the strength and reputation of the tribe.

But if any person is focused on their own ' individualism', they have to work very hard to feel unique (and therefore superior). Often, they inflate the significance of the minor differences with another and will even focus on the trivialities of their differences. Being against something is easier whereas being positive takes courage.

This type will often aggress and push, sometimes subtly, over minor things to work hard at disagreeing and being distinct. In other words, they focus on their separateness to inflate their sense of individuality. That's more important than being supportive because the adversarial approach is their constant journey toward 'superior selfhood'.

I guess the key aspect is intent.

On the topic of the speed of Rourke’s reads, a difference has been highlighted between Rourke’s early experience playing Canadian football up to his Grade 12 year and Flutie’s lack of Canadian experience at all prior to arriving in the CFL with B.C.

Certainly, minor differences can mean a lot in the game of football. The difference between a quarterback releasing a football in 2.8 seconds vs. 3 seconds can make a world of difference on a pass, for a variety of reasons.

How much impact did playing the Canadian 12 man game up to Grade 12 advantage Rourke. How much was the American 11 man game embedded in Rourke’s mindset from Grade 12 and college forward and how long would it take to remove that conditioning ( I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in :wink: ) .

Would it be like riding a bike to go back to CFL Grade 11 football or would five years of learning and playing the American game, with much more in depth instruction and detailed coaching be difficult to derail.

I have no idea.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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It’s no surprise to see Rourke take a practice roster contract with Jacksonville, for now. He got US$200K guaranteed, so even if he returned to BC and the Lions renegotiated his contract to give him a bump for the remainder of 2023 he’s probably not giving up much in the way of salary.

However, I think by 2024 Rourke may be looking seriously about a return to the CFL. Thanks to Kelly setting the bar, Rourke would get a similar $650K per season contract if he comes back. That’s US$480K, more than double what he could expect to earn in the NFL on a PR if he can’t get an active roster spot next season.

While it must be tempting to keep chasing that NFL dream, and the opportunity to bank generational wealth if you end up starting, Rourke also has to consider how many years he has left to start and earn a very good living as a CFL starting QB. Every year he spends on a PR he would be losing at least CA$300K. He’s going to be 26 next year. Rourke lost his first pro season to COVID-19 and spent his second pro season backing up Mike Reilly. By next season Rourke may realize that he’s been out of college for 5 years but only been a starter for one of those five seasons. His professional career could be half done by 2024.

A return to the CFL would give Rourke an opportunity to earn at least CA$3M before his playing days are over. That might not be “generational wealth” but it would set him up to do whatever he wanted after retirement from football.
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Belize City Lion wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:56 pm
It’s no surprise to see Rourke take a practice roster contract with Jacksonville, for now. He got US$200K guaranteed, so even if he returned to BC and the Lions renegotiated his contract to give him a bump for the remainder of 2023 he’s probably not giving up much in the way of salary.

However, I think by 2024 Rourke may be looking seriously about a return to the CFL. Thanks to Kelly setting the bar, Rourke would get a similar $650K per season contract if he comes back. That’s US$480K, more than double what he could expect to earn in the NFL on a PR if he can’t get an active roster spot next season.

While it must be tempting to keep chasing that NFL dream, and the opportunity to bank generational wealth if you end up starting, Rourke also has to consider how many years he has left to start and earn a very good living as a CFL starting QB. Every year he spends on a PR he would be losing at least CA$300K. He’s going to be 26 next year. Rourke lost his first pro season to COVID-19 and spent his second pro season backing up Mike Reilly. By next season Rourke may realize that he’s been out of college for 5 years but only been a starter for one of those five seasons. His professional career could be half done by 2024.

A return to the CFL would give Rourke an opportunity to earn at least CA$3M before his playing days are over. That might not be “generational wealth” but it would set him up to do whatever he wanted after retirement from football.
Excellent post Belize City Lion. I think you nailed it straight and accurately on a number of concepts regarding Rourke's football career, present and future!! :beauty:
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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I think Rourke has been too focused for too long on being an NFL QB to give up the dream after only one or two NFL seasons. If Rourke ever returns to the CFL it will be when he is in his late 20s, so 3-5 years from now and only after exhausting all possible oppourtunities.

Rourke appears to come from a family that is fairly well off financially. For Rourke it is not about the money it is about being an NFL QB.
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Toppy Vann
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Kelly might not want that NFL dream any more OR he might realize it ain't happening given his now age and his background there.

However, it's interesting how Saskatoon based agent for Chad Kelly, Chris Lambiris got Kelly a deal that makes sure he'd not venture to the NFL given this clause:
He’s due a $250,000 signing bonus in 2024 but can’t collect it if the six-foot-two, 216-pound QB signs an NFL contract during the December to February window. That means Kelly would need substantial guaranteed money from an NFL team to entertain it as a possibility.
It sounds like Kelly is very happy with that clause and living in Toronto.

https://3downnation.com/2023/08/31/toro ... 5-million/


I suspect that even if the Lions put that concept forward that Rourke was not interested in staying in the CFL.

I wonder though if this clause and off season money might start to pop up more in the CFL.
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