2017-18 NFL Season Thread

[South Pender]

Is it Time for the 12s to Panic?

Seahawks fans are understandably concerned about their team's performance to date--sitting at 1-2. But have we reached the point of panic? A little perspective might be helpful. Two years ago, the Seahawks started the 2015 season 1-2 and moved to 2-4 before going on to finish the year with a 10-6 record and winning the division. The 'Hawks have been slow starters in the Pete Carroll era.

The team has demonstrated several ways to lose so far. At first the concern was the offense--and in particular the O-line--and they went two games before scoring a TD. Then last Sunday in Nashville (in 110-degree heat on the field and close to 90% humidity), the offense got going in the second half only to see the defense (previously rated as one of the best in the NFL) give up 24 points and 261 yards, in the second half, 165 of which came on the ground, including a 75-yard touchdown run. The defense appeared worn down and completely out of gas in the 4th quarter. Russell Wilson, however, had his best game in some time with 373 yards passing and 4 TDs.

Pete Carroll is a constitutionally calm and positive guy and seems to be taking it in stride. Still, it's clear that changes are needed, and it has to start next Sunday with the Colts visiting CenturyLink. One of the stranger developments so far is the inaction of the two running backs--Thomas Rawls and Eddie Lacy, both of whom are healthy--who were penciled in to be the alternate starters. They've played a total of something like 10 snaps over the three games, with rookie Chris Carson getting most of the carries so far. Something has to change here. The 'Hawks need to get a sustained ground game going; it's an important part of the DNA of this team. And the defense has to get back to stopping the run (as they did in the first half against the Titans) after giving up long runs first to Carlos Hyde and last Sunday to DeMarco Murray.

Next Sunday's game against the Colts could be an interesting one. The Seahawks are faring reasonably well vis-à-vis injuries, although Doug Baldwin, easily their best receiver, is nursing a groin injury he suffered last Sunday in the 4th quarter. His absence from the lineup--if it comes to that--could be significant. On the other hand, the Colts are still without Andrew Luck, but backup Jacoby Brissett has played well.

Will this be the week the Seahawks bounce back?

Edit. I found this piece from ESPN that provides some additional perspective on the Seahawks' slow starts:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2080 ... hy-worried

[South Pender]

Bears at Packers tonight, 5:30 PDT, CBS and TSN.

This is the NFL's longest rivalry, beginning in 1921, with 194 regular-season and post-season games. The series is tied 94–94–6.

I would not have expected this to be a good game a couple of weeks ago, but now it just might be. The Packers are crippled with many injuries, and the Bears looked pretty good last Sunday beating the Steelers 23-17. The Bears have a ground game; the Packers don't. Can the Bears with Mike Glennon at QB match up with the Packers and Aaron Rodgers, probably the best QB in the NFL?

[Robbie]

Bears at Packers tonight, 5:30 PDT, CBS and TSN.

This is the NFL's longest rivalry, beginning in 1921, with 194 regular-season and post-season games. The series is tied 94–94–6.

I would not have expected this to be a good game a couple of weeks ago, but now it just might be. The Packers are crippled with many injuries, and the Bears looked pretty good last Sunday beating the Steelers 23-17. The Bears have a ground game; the Packers don't. Can the Bears with Mike Glennon at QB match up with the Packers and Aaron Rodgers, probably the best QB in the NFL?

In the end, it was no challenge or contest at all from the Bears as the Packers dominated with their 35-14 win.

[South Pender]

Bears at Packers tonight, 5:30 PDT, CBS and TSN.

This is the NFL's longest rivalry, beginning in 1921, with 194 regular-season and post-season games. The series is tied 94–94–6.

I would not have expected this to be a good game a couple of weeks ago, but now it just might be. The Packers are crippled with many injuries, and the Bears looked pretty good last Sunday beating the Steelers 23-17. The Bears have a ground game; the Packers don't. Can the Bears with Mike Glennon at QB match up with the Packers and Aaron Rodgers, probably the best QB in the NFL?

In the end, it was no challenge or contest at all from the Bears as the Packers dominated with their 35-14 win.

You're right, Robbie. Surprisingly one-sided given all the Packers' injuries. Mike Glennon looked terrible. The Bears need to get their 1st-round (second overall) draft pick, QB Mitch Trubisky, into the lineup and getting some meaningful experience. I expect that Mitch will be under center for at least some plays against the Vikings a week from Monday.

[Robbie]

It was exactly three years ago today on this thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=27461&start=420 I posted this picture showing the most popular NFL jerseys at the start of the 2014 season and made some conclusions.

It looks like in most cases the state roots for the closest NFL team geographically:

1. Oregon roots for the Seahawks.
2. The two Dakotas root for the Minnesota Vikings.
3. Maine and other northeastern states root for the New England Patriots.
4. Three neighbouring states of Colorado root for the Denver Broncos.

But there are notable exceptions in which the state roots for a team that is much farther away geographically:

1. Nevada roots for the Indianapolis Colts instead of the three California teams or the Cardinals.
2. Idaho roots for the Green Bay Packers instead of the Seahawks.
3. Montana roots for the Oakland Raiders instead of the Seahawks or the Broncos.
4. Nebraska roots for the Washington Redskins instead of the Broncos, Chiefs, or Vikings.
5. Alaska roots for the St. Louis Rams instead of the Seahawks.
6. Hawaii roots for the Carolina Panthers instead of the California teams.
7. Arkansas roots for the Pittsburgh Steelers instead of the many other neighbouring NFL cities.

And in cases in which the state has two or more NFL teams, then we now know which team is the more popular in that state:

1. In California, the 49ers are more popular than the Raiders and the Chargers.
2. In Texas, the Cowboys are more popular than the Texans.
3. In Florida, the Buccaneers are more popular than the Dolphins and the Jaguars.
4. In Pennsylvania, the Steelers are more popular than the Eagles.
5. In New York, surprisingly the Bills are more popular than the Jets and especially Giants even though in they are the most successfully in the recent past. Perhaps it's because the Jets/Giants actually play in New Jersey where the Giants are most popular.

But I did not see the biggest possible anomaly - a case in which a state does have an NFL team(s) but the most popular team in terms of jersey sales was NOT in that state.

Now, www.nflshop.com has published a similar diagram attached below. In this case, there are 25 personalized NFL player jerseys for sale http://www.nflshop.com/pages/Top_Selling_Jerseys and there are indeed some big anomalies made in my very last point in my quote three years ago.

1. First and foremost, Tom Brady jerseys are the most popular in Illinois instead of a player from the Bears. The same thing with Florida as well as Tom Brady is more popular than a player from the Dolphins, Buccaneers, Jaguars.

2. In Montana, New Mexico, and Alabama, Tom Brady from the Patriots are the most popular instead of a player from a team that is much closer geographically.

3. In Maryland and Virginia, Dak Prescott from the Cowboys is the most popular over a player from the Ravens or Redskins.

4. Marshawn Lynch formerly of the Seahawks are the most popular in California instead of a player from the 49ers, Rams, Chargers, or Raiders. Utah also likes him instead of a player from neighboring Broncos or Cardinals.

5. We see that in other states midwest states that do not have NFL teams like Nebraska and Iowa, then they root for the Cowboys because of Dak Prescott.

6. In Pennsylvania, James Conner from the Steelers are the most popular instead of a player from the Eagles, even though Philadelphia has a much higher population than Pittsburgh.

7. In New York, Odell Beckham Jr. from the Giants is the most popular over a player from the Bills or Jets.

8. sj-roc did mention the issue of college affinity as well and here's a good example. In North Dakota, Carson Wentz of the Philadelphia Eagles is the most popular because he went to North Dakota for both high school and North Dakota State college.

-----------
I stated this before three years ago and I'll state this again. In Canada is there the possibility that a Canadian Province with a CFL team have a CFL player jersey that is MORE popular from a team that is not from that province?

[South Pender]

Didn't think I'd see this....

The 12s booing the Seahawks at halftime in last night's game.

It's true they didn't play well in the first half, and were 1-2 going into the game, but I didn't think they were this close to boos from the usually very-supportive Seattle fans.

It was an unusual game--a game of two very-different halves, ending up in the one-sided game odds-makers were predicting--actually even more one-sided. So the 'Hawks got a big win, but they also picked up some injuries that have to concern the fans. Their leading RB so far this season is gone for the season with a broken bone in his leg (and possible sprain as well). This is Chris Carson, their 2017 7th-round draft pick who has looked great so far. Fortunately, they have Thomas Rawls and Eddie Lacy, both healthy, ready to step in, and they seem to have uncovered a new potential star in J.D. McKissic, who ran well and was effective as a receiver. So their running game should be OK.

They had other injuries as well, however: Jeremy Lane, their starting nickel corner went out with a groin injury as did Cliff Avril, one of their top pass-rushers, with a neck injury. We don't know yet how serious these injuries are.

Rees Odhiambo, their sophomore LT (who was a backup until George Fant went down during training camp) was hospitalized with a bruised heart! (I thought this only happened when your girlfriend dumped you.... ) Seriously, though, I haven't heard of this injury, but it sounds ominous. Evidently, Odhiambo continued playing for quite a while after this happened, and it wasn't until the team was in the locker room after the game, that Odhiambo experienced serious symptoms. He was rushed to a local hospital where he stayed until today, when he was released. If Odhiambo can't go next Sunday, the 'Hawks will be in serious trouble. It's not that Odhiambo was playing that well, just that his replacement, Matt Tobin, is, at this point, much worse. It's possible Carroll will consider putting raw rookie 2017 2nd-round draft pick Ethan Pocic in, but that seems unlikely. Whoever lines up at LT on Sunday will have the really-unenviable task of trying to block the Rams' Aaron Donald. Russell Wilson's blind side looks very vulnerable.

Actually I'm hoping that Schneider/Carroll trade for a legitimate starting LT, but I don't know how many are available at this point. Interesting times ahead for the Seahawks....

Edit. Tuesday update on Odhiambo injury: turns out it was a bruised sternum, not a bruised heart as was first announced.

[Robbie]

Seahawks dodged a bullet with a 16-10 win over the Rams. While the Seahawks defence were good by forcing several turnovers, the final Rams drive with 1:09 remaining and no timeouts was inexcusable and to allow the Rams to almost complete a game-winning touchdown. More work definitely needs to be done to make it a championship caliber.

[South Pender]

Seahawks dodged a bullet with a 16-10 win over the Rams. While the Seahawks defence were good by forcing several turnovers, the final Rams drive with 1:09 remaining and no timeouts was inexcusable and to allow the Rams to almost complete a game-winning touchdown. More work definitely needs to be done to make it a championship caliber.

Astute observations, Robbie. That final drive by the Rams was heart-stopping; the almost-catch by Cooper Kupp that would have won the game for the Rams had all Seahawks fans holding their breath.

The Seahawks were playing without their usual Legion of Boom secondary, with Jeremy Lane out with an injury. I think when he returns, the pass defense will be better, not that it wasn't good yesterday. And when DeShawn Shead returns (maybe a few games from now), they'll be just that much better. Rookie 3rd-round draft pick Shaquill Griffin has played surprisingly well on the corner opposite Richard Sherman, and so the Legion of Boom looks very solid at this point.

It's clear from yesterday's game that the defense is carrying this team, something that everyone expected going into the 2017 season. But I don't think we expected the offense to look quite this bad. They picked up 62 yards on the ground (with 16 of those by Russell Wilson) on 25 carries, for a paltry 2.5 yds. per carry. They have two normally competent RBs in Thomas Rawls and Eddie Lacy, but the O-line continues to be just terrible. If the 'Hawks don't get this fixed, they won't go far this season. In my opinion, they need to trade for a competent LT, not only to improve the ground game, but also to keep Wilson in one piece.

I was going back and forth between the Seahawks and the Packers-Cowboys game. The latter game started later, so that catching most of the 4th quarter was possible without missing the Seahawks. This was one of the best games of the season so far. The final drive by the Packers--75 yards in 73 seconds, culminating in Aaron Rodgers' wing pass (low and outside) to Davante Adams for the game-winning TD--was just phenomenal. I don't think there can be any doubt whatsoever that Aaron Rodgers is the premier QB in the NFL. And the Pack seems to have found a RB in rookie Aaron Jones who picked up 125 yards rushing on 19 carries. Look for the Packers to be in the mix when playoffs come around.

[South Pender]

An interesting Week 6 in the NFL. Who saw the Falcons losing to the Dolphins? The Dolphins! And what about the Giants--with all their starter receivers out--beating the Broncos? Both winners were something close to 2-touchdown underdogs. No team in either conference has really displayed dominance; parity appears to be the present state of affairs in the NFL.

And the saddest development: Aaron Rodgers' broken collarbone. He'll need surgery and will likely miss the rest of the season. While football is, after all, a team sport, without Rodgers, arguably the best QB in the NFL, the Packers will have a very tough time even making the playoffs. He WAS the offense. His backup, Brett Hundley, has no meaningful experience, although his measurables are good. And the injuries don't end with Rodgers. Both starting tackles, Bryan Bulaga and David Bakhtiari, are out again. Not to mention many injuries in an already-borderline defense. Going into the season, the Packers were seen as a good bet to win the NFC, but now, not much chance. I think the favorite in the NFC-N now has to be the Vikings.

We may see a trade with the Seahawks. At least that's the hope. They desperately need O-line help (what else is new?), and a couple of veterans have been mentioned as possible trades. Why they didn't complete a trade while they still had the bye week seems hard to understand. With starting LG Luke Joeckel out for a couple of weeks after having his knee scoped, the O-line is just a mess, not that it was good even with Joeckel in it. The 'Hawks should be able to beat the Giants next Sunday in NY, but there are just too many question marks now to have much confidence in this.

I guess we'll see just how good a coach Pete Carroll is in the weeks ahead....

[South Pender]

Some Monday musings on NFL Week 7. First, the Seahawks. I had to miss the second-half of the Seahawks-Giants game, but did suffer through the first half, where the 'Hawks offense just looked sloppy--dropped passes that could have been TDs, the one big fumble by Thomas Rawls, etc. Fortunately, the defense was, as always, up to the task and pretty much shut down the Giants' offense all afternoon.

From game reports today, I gather the Seahawks got it together offensively in the second half, with Russell Wilson throwing three TD passes. One highlight I saw was of Paul Richardson bringing down a TD pass on a contested catch with Giants' safety Landon Collins. It was clear that Richardson had the ball in his hands first, but, when they went to the ground, both players had their hands around the ball. It was awarded to the Seahawks. I'm wondering whether the rule in cases like this is that when both players have at least some possession of the ball, it goes to the offensive player. Seemed that way. Reminiscent of the "Fail Mary" pass from Wilson to Golden Tate on the final play of the game with the Packers in 2012, which similarly went to the Seahawks.

From analysis of the box score, it's clear that the 'Hawks still don't have their running game functioning with any degree of effectiveness. Neither Thomas Rawls nor Eddie Lacy have taken over the identity of bell cow, and C. J. Prosise just continues to get hurt. It goes back to the O-line deficiencies, I think, and this will continue through the season unless they manage to snag a legitimate starter or two before the Oct. 31 trade deadline.

What does look good in the Seahawks' offense is their receiving corps. Paul Richardson has blossomed into a very reliable second wide receiver, and he does have the blinding speed needed to keep defenses honest. He and Tyler Lockett (also a speed merchant) are solid second wide receivers behind Doug Baldwin, who I gather was spectacular yesterday. And, of course, they have Jimmy Graham who, when he's not dropping passes, is a match-up nightmare for corners and safeties. It will be interesting to see how their 2017 3rd-round draft pick Amara Darboh comes along. He has much better size than either Richardson or Lockett at 6-2, 214 lbs. and has close-to-elite speed at 4.45.

I gather that things played out pretty much as Packers fans feared yesterday, with Brett Hundley unable to come remotely close to Aaron Rodgers' play. I fear that the year may be over for the Pack, with both the Vikings and Lions showing strength in the NFC-N.

The Cardinals lost QB Carson Palmer yesterday in London with a broken left arm. This will sideline him for most, if not all, of the rest of the season and, I would think, relegates the Cardinals to perhaps third place in the division. If there were ever to be a point at which a call to Colin Kaepernick should be made, this would seem to be it. Palmer's backup, Drew Stanton, hasn't looked good in the past filling in for Palmer. At this point, it looks as though the NFC-W will come down to the Seahawks and Rams

Overall, the NFL seems, at this point, to be closer to parity in all the divisions than we're accustomed to seeing. There really doesn't seem to be a dominant team at this point. There are, however, some pretty dismal ones--49ers and Browns to name just two. Games may become more competitive as the season progresses.

[Robbie]

You have to be lucky to be good.
You have to be good to be lucky.

And that's the Seahawks today. Despite making two interceptions, the Seahawks defence was terrible by allowing two long touchdown passes and several short touchdowns as well. Fortunately the Seahawks offence went hand in hand with the Texans offence with this close game. Exceptions though was in the third quarter the Seahawks were in the red zone but had to settle for field goals which make the game close.

I'm sure the Russell Wilson threw the interception, the fans started to head to the exits and those at home turned off their televisions and missed dramatic ending.

It's always exciting to see a foot race to the end zone. When it comes to defensive players, the cornerbacks are usually the fastest players and that's why they sometimes serve as kick returners and can usually outrun and catch a typical running back. In a very pivotal play in the 3rd quarter, Russell Wilson hit fullback Tre Madden wide open and was on his way to the end zone but was eventually caught from behind by Texans cornerback Johnathan Joseph with fellow cornerback Kareem Jackson right behind for a 66-yard gain instead and the ensuing plays did not result in a TD. I suppose if it was wide receivers Doug Baldwin, Tyler Lockett, or Paul Richardson who caught the pass on the same play, they would have won the foot race and ran for a touchdown but not if it was tight ends Jimmy Graham or Luke Willson as they are not known for speed.

[South Pender]

To those who say that NFL games are boring, I hope they tuned in for yesterday's Seahawks-Texans thriller. I doesn't get much more exciting than that. It was nice for the 12s to see the home team win, but, in my opinion, the game exposed some very concerning tendencies about the Seahawks.

First, how does this supposedly very-daunting defense end up allowing rookie QB Deshaun Watson to burn them for 402 yards passing and another 67 rushing, en route to 38 points? Although the Seahawks D can be generally considered pretty solid, being very stout against the run, and--usually--pretty decent against the pass, it seems to me that they lack an adequate pass rush. Watson had far too much time to pass yesterday. The loss of Cliff Avril has contributed somewhat to this, although they weren't effectively rushing the passer before he went down with the neck injury. I know Pete Carroll is acutely aware of this deficiency, and we saw this in his bringing in the ancient Dwight Freeney this past week for the Texans game. The Hawks are very solid at LB and in the secondary, but the D-line is just not getting anywhere near enough pressure on opposing QBs. We saw this time after time yesterday with Watson finding his two really excellent WRs, DeAndre Hopkins and Will Fuller, who repeatedly burned the 'Hawks. This will definitely need to be fixed if the Seahawks are to really go anywhere this season.

Second, the ground game is truly terrible. Yesterday, the 'Hawks racked up a total net rushing yardage of 33 yards, and 30 of those were by Russell Wilson, who was just spectacular. Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls had something like -1 yard between them. This can't continue, or the Seahawks just won't go much further this season. The O-line is even worse than Seahawks fans had feared going into the season, and I don't see it getting much better. O-line coach Tom Cable talks a lot about how what is needed is just more game experience to come together, but I now think that this won't be enough; the talent just isn't there. My probably forlorn hope is that they trade for a decent experienced O-lineman--ideally LT--before tomorrow's trade deadline.

What I find interesting and somewhat surprising about the present O-line is that they seem to be better at pass-blocking than run-blocking. We've all heard that O-linemen prefer run- to pass-blocking, but if the Seahawks' O-linemen prefer run-blocking, it sure isn't showing up in the rushing stats. They just can't seem to open up any running room for the two top RBs, Eddie Lacy and Thomas Rawls, and it's just pitiful to see them both getting stuffed play after play.

I enjoyed yesterday's game for its excitement and eventual outcome, but the Seahawks sure don't look like a Super Bowl contender at this point.

Edit. Update: News just surfaced that the Seahawks have worked a trade with the Texans that will bring Pro Bowl LT Duane Brown to the Seahawks and send CB and nickel back Jeremy Lane to the Texans (along with some draft help). Brown is 32, is 6-4 and 305 lbs. and has made the Pro Bowl three years. The 'Hawks' recent difficulties in both run-blocking and pass-protection have made this acquisition mandatory. This should be a big upgrade to the Seahawks offense. When Luke Joeckel returns in two or three weeks from having his knee scoped, he'll probably be slotted in at LG, which will give the O-line strength on the left, with Justin Britt at center playing well and Joeckel and Brown filling out the left side. They are still weak on the right side with Oday Aboushi barely adequate at RG and Germain Ifedi stinking it up at RT.

Losing CB Lane shouldn't set the Seahawks' D back much. He's been in and out of the lineup over the past few weeks with injuries and hasn't really been missed that much. Rookie CB Shaquill Griffin has been a pleasant surprise starting across from Richard Sherman, and CB Justin Coleman, picked up from the Patriots, has been solid too. It's predicted that last year's right CB starter DeShawn Shead should be ready to return from knee surgery in the next three or four weeks. This looks like a win-win trade, as the 'Hawks desperately need the O-line help, and the Texans will benefit from Lane's experience in their relatively weak secondary.

Edit. Latest Update: Jeremy Lane failed his physical with the Texans, so that part of the deal is off. Fortunately, the Texans GM agreed to let the Seahawks have Brown, with another draft pick substituted for Lane. This will cost the 'Hawks a draft pick next year, and they will be stuck with Lane's salary for the rest of this season. Still, Pete Carroll didn't seem too upset with this development, as it provides more depth in the secondary with Lane back. I wonder how Lane feels this week practicing with a team that tried to unload him!

[Robbie]

Halftime at Redskins at Seahawks. Blair Walsh has missed three field goals which will certainly bring up memories of a pivotal playoff miss he made as a Viking.

Time for Walsh to look for a new job?

[Ballistic Bob]

Anyone else find Seahawks going for two point convert at the end of the game puzzling. They were up by 4 a convert would make it a 5 point advantage. Washington would score so now they are down by 2. A field goal would of won it. I know their kicker was terrible. Same guy who missed in Minny a two years ago. Thnx BB

[Robbie]

Anyone else find Seahawks going for two point convert at the end of the game puzzling. They were up by 4 a convert would make it a 5 point advantage. Washington would score so now they are down by 2. A field goal would of won it. I know their kicker was terrible. Same guy who missed in Minny a two years ago. Thnx BB

Pete Carroll felt that if they got the two-point conversion then they would have had a 6-point lead. Then if the Redskins got a touchdown (which they did) then there's always a possibility that they would miss the regular conversion so that it will still be a tie game.