2016 All Things Lions Marketing & Promotions

[Hambone]

Don't know the full story in regards to this but apparently the Lion's organization has decided to no longer support the BCLions Den podcast. This means they will no longer allow(?) or provide Lions' players (and I am assuming employees) to participate in the podcast. If I am following the tweets regarding this correctly, the Lions disapproved of a comment or comments that were put forward by the BCLions Den that were critical of the Lions marketing (or lack thereof).

As mentioned, I am not fully certain of the complete details. But IMO this strikes me as completely counter-productive by the club. To be that belligerent towards someone who is obviously a fan of the club and provides an outlet for discussion about and by extension, publicity for, the team....makes me shake my head.

I know Brian very well and can't see him crossing the line but a person should still find out all the details before jumping to conclusions.

[jcalhoun]

The Lions are really quite a bit better on social media this year than last. Their Facebook & Twitter feeds are churning out constant content, and look professional. Matt Baker (sp?) has written some pieces for the website too that are quite good.

But....if the Lions are going to be doing a more professional job managing their online brand, then that means exerting control over their content. Brian's podcast is a fairly decent amateur effort, but the team may rightly feel that he's a distraction for them. Of course, this has been handled very poorly (or appears to be). But if Lions' marketing and promotions is trying to accomplish A. and Brian is tacking his podcast towards B., then the Lions are well within their right to halt their involvement. They could be much more stern: I'm pretty sure they could force him to give up the title "BC Lions Den" and all of their image content he uses on his blog.

Frankly, if I were TSN 1040, I'd be upset that Brian's podcast comes up before their "3 Down Radio" on itunes. Why exactly are the Lions' providing guests for an amateur radio host that directly competes with them? Especially when they pay for radio rights.

Anyway, we don't know the details --though I'd be surprised if the team was anything other than hamfisted in dealing with, arguably their most ardent fan. Get ready for more of this: I'd expect the Lions to exert more control over their product in the future. We've spent years calling for more professionalism in all aspects of running the team, and the downside will be them tightly controlling their message, however it is presented.

Cheers,

James

[CardiacKid]

Don't know the full story in regards to this but apparently the Lion's organization has decided to no longer support the BCLions Den podcast. This means they will no longer allow(?) or provide Lions' players (and I am assuming employees) to participate in the podcast. If I am following the tweets regarding this correctly, the Lions disapproved of a comment or comments that were put forward by the BCLions Den that were critical of the Lions marketing (or lack thereof).

As mentioned, I am not fully certain of the complete details. But IMO this strikes me as completely counter-productive by the club. To be that belligerent towards someone who is obviously a fan of the club and provides an outlet for discussion about and by extension, publicity for, the team....makes me shake my head.

I know Brian very well and can't see him crossing the line but a person should still find out all the details before jumping to conclusions.

If you have access to Twitter, you can follow the line of tweets from Brian but other podcasters as well; they paint a pretty solid picture IMO. But I would definitely appreciate more detail regarding this as well; either via response from the club or an article from a 3rd party.
In fairness to the forum, I tried to word my post in such a manner that it was not something to be regarded as gospel.

[Hambone]

If you have access to Twitter, you can follow the line of tweets from Brian but other podcasters as well; they paint a pretty solid picture IMO. But I would definitely appreciate more detail regarding this as well; either via response from the club or an article from a 3rd party.
In fairness to the forum, I tried to word my post in such a manner that it was not something to be regarded as gospel.

I set up a Twitter account a couple years ago to follow my cousin at the World Series of Poker a couple years ago as he was using it to post his progress. Haven't bothered with it since and don't plan on it anytime soon.

[Hambone]

Another interesting segment on Global last night that points to challenges the Lions face that all the marketing efforts in the world cannot cure. In a recent survey targeting young families in Vancouver 58% said they expect they will have to move out of Vancouver within 3 years. The term "Vancouver" is always used so generally I don't know if that mean City of Vancouver proper or Vancouver plus burbs. Regardless it's not a good sign that those young families the Lions desperately need as their future fanbase feel that they will have no choice but to leave the immediate market area.

[sj-roc]

I wasn't up to speed on this week's schedule and didn't realize there was a game tonight. It makes total sense. Everybody knows there are only 2 days on the calendar year where there isn't a pro sports game out of one of North America's major sports leagues. Those 2 days are the day before and the day after the MLB All-Star game although MLB does get a good audience from their Home Run Derby the night before the All-Star game. The CFL would be missing a great opportunity by not scheduling a game tonight given there is zero competition for sports viewership.

I was wandering through the Kits hood yesterday shortly after the game started and passed by a small local pub. Without actually going inside I could look in from the sidewalk and count eight televisions. You know how many were showing the game? Three. The other five were tuned in to Sportsnet, which was showing what appeared to be some sort of Blue Jays highlights package (hard to tell without sound and only watching for like 1-2 mins), perhaps a first-half-of-the-season extended review. So on the one night of the year when there is "zero competition" from anything else on the continent in terms of sports, the CFL can't even get onto half the TVs in a pub.

Granted it was an all-eastern matchup but I don't think things would have been much better had the Lions been playing.

To give you a further idea of where the Lions lie on the local sporting consciousness, have a look at the Daily Hive (FKA Vancity Buzz, now rebranded to DH as it has recently added coverage aimed at other cities). DH is a site mostly aimed at (and even run by) local twenty-somethings and is intended to reflect the interests of this age group. And it's the largest online-only publication in Western Canada.

Looking at their Vancouver sports section, here's the sequential list of headlines, starting from the most recent as I type, dating back to Jun 27, the first three pages' worth of stories. Have a look at how scant their Lions coverage is, compared to other, ostensibly much smaller-time stuff:

1. The Blue Jays' window of opportunity is NOW
2. Canada's Stephanie Labbe ready for chance of a lifetime in Rio
3. 29 photos of Vancouver's Global Relay Gastown Grand Prix 2016
4. Eric Young wins Gastown Grand Prix, takes home $12,000 prize
5. 3 Kicks: Techera wonder goal helps Whitecaps to 2-0 win
6. Whitecaps rumoured to be interested in Mexican striker Enrique Esqueda
7. Dolphin Basketball Classic returns to Richmond July 15-17
8. Canucks get expansion draft protection, re-sign Richard Bachman and Mike Zalewski to 1-year extensions
9. Would Canucks fans support a rebuild? Of course they would
10. Blue Jays need All-Star pitcher Aaron Sanchez to remain in rotation
11. FTBL Podcast: Whitecaps call the Canadian cavalry
12. Match Preview: Whitecaps FC continue home stand against Real Salt Lake
13. Liam Middleton out as Team Canada Rugby Sevens head coach
14. The Tenors apologize for 'All Lives Matter' gaffe, place blame on "lone wolf"
15. The Tenors change O Canada lyrics to support 'All Lives Matter' at MLB All-Star Game (VIDEO)
16. NHL fans have least confidence in Canucks' front office, says poll
17. Injection of youth gives Canada renewed hope for Rio Olympics
18. 6 obscure Blue Jays All-Stars you've probably forgotten about
19. Portugal fans went nuts in Vancouver after Euro 2016 win (PHOTOS)
20. Whitecaps sign Canadian international Marcel de Jong
21. GTD Canucks Podcast: Winner and losers of free agency
22. Whitecaps sign Canadian international defender David Edgar
23. UFC mixed martial arts company sold for record $4 billion
24. Report: Whitecaps to add Canadian internationals de Jong, Edgar
25. Raonic falls short at Wimbledon, loses to Murray in final
26. Canada loses to France, fails to qualify for Rio 2016 Olympics
27. Denis Shapovalov wins junior boys title at Wimbledon
28. 3 Kicks: Whitecaps surrender at the death
29. Wimbledon Final: Murray will be Raonic's toughest test yet
30. 1 win away: Canada beats New Zealand, will face France in FIBA Olympic qualifier final
31. Are the Vancouver Whitecaps bad or just unlucky?
32. What a Wimbledon win for Raonic could mean for Canada
33. Michael Saunders aka "Captain Canada" wins fan vote, will play in MLB All-Star Game
34. Match preview: Struggling Whitecaps try to overcome high-flying Colorado Rapids
35. Canada's Milos Raonic defeats Roger Federer, will play in first Wimbledon final
36. Lions pick up first loss of the season, Argos prevail 25-14
37. Port Moody's Ryan Johansen on adjusting to life in Nashville
38. Surrey's Brenden Dillon reflects on Sharks' Cup run
39. Canucks re-sign Jacob Markstrom to 3-year, $11 million contract
40. Game Preview: Lions look to advance to 3-0 for first time since 2007
41. Vans Pro Skate Park Series Friday qualifiers open to public
42. Whistler to host Canucks training camp 2016
43. Jon Jones fails drug test, pulled out of UFC 200
44. Raonic vs Federer in Wimbledon semis: Why Milos should win
45. Skateboarding's first ever world championship park terrain series comes to Vancouver
46. Georges St-Pierre to sign autographs for fans in Vancouver on Sunday
47. FTBL Podcast: Panic button time for the Whitecaps FC?
48. Canada defeats Senegal, advances to semi-final at FIBA Olympic Qualifier (HIGHLIGHTS)
49. Whitecaps transfer Octavio Rivero to Chilean side Colo-Colo
50. Raonic defeats Querrey, advances to semi-final at Wimbledon
51. Ducks sign Mason Raymond to a one-year, two-way deal
52. Blue and very green: Canucks win Environmental Innovator of the Year Award
53. Flames sign Linden Vey to a one-year, two-way deal
54. Report: Canucks nearing contract extension with Jacob Markstrom
55. Team Canada wins opening game at Olympic qualifier (HIGHLIGHTS)
56. 3 Kicks: Whitecaps FC lose 2-0 to LA Galaxy
57. Canada competes for spot in Olympics without much of their NBA talent
58. GTD Canucks Podcast: Trades & free agency review
59. Milos Raonic comes back to win 5-set thriller, advances to quarters at Wimbledon
60. Match Preview: Will the real Whitecaps FC stand up?
61. Canucks hire Doug Jarvis as assistant coach
62. BC Lions stay undefeated, beat Hamilton 28-3
63. Canucks sign Jayson Megna to 1-year deal worth $600,000
64. FTBL Podcast: Whitecaps FC heartbreak and transfer rumours
65. Canucks sign defenceman Philip Larsen to 1-year contract
66. Canucks sign Chaput, Rendulic, Billins
67. A look back at Dan Hamhuis' time with the Vancouver Canucks
68. Dan Hamhuis signs with Dallas Stars
69. Canucks sign Loui Eriksson to 6-year, $36 million deal
70. Demko, Boeser, Juolevi highlight list of attendees at 2016 Canucks Development Camp
71. Patience will be important for Canucks in free agency
72. Game Preview: BC Lions look to bagel Ticats at Tim Hortons Field
73. 3 Kicks: Toronto FC steals Canadian Championship from Whitecaps’ grasp
74. 32 crazy minutes: Here's WTF happened in the NHL today
75. Canadiens trade PK Subban to Nashville for Shea Weber
76. Report: Canucks interview Dave Cameron, Keith Acton for assistant coach position
77. Match preview: Whitecaps try to repeat as Canadian Champions against Toronto FC
78. Buono's Lions show fight, promise to start the season
79. Lucic prepared to choose Oilers over Canucks
80. Whitecaps schedule announced for CONCACAF Champions League
81. Canucks' Jim Benning fined $50,000 for tampering
82. Herschel Supply releases limited edition Toronto Blue Jays bags
83. Lucic meets with Canucks management in Vancouver
84. ECCW: Van-City Showdown 2016
85. Canucks re-sign Emerson Etem to a one-year deal
86. Pat Quinn to be inducted into Hockey Hall of Fame
87. Ron MacLean officially back as Hockey Night in Canada host
88. Raonic not Canada's best hope at Wimbledon 2016
89. Canucks place Higgins on waivers for purpose of a buyout
90. GTD Canucks Podcast: NHL Draft review

It's not like only the Canucks, or even only the Canucks and Whitecaps dominate their coverage. There's a lot of diversity in there; on top of the aforementioned two teams, you've got European soccer, UFC, tennis, a local cycling race, Olympics (various sports) and rugby, plus ECCW and "Vans Pro Skate Park Series" included in the mix. I don't even know what those last two are and I might have also missed some others. Even the Blue Jays are in there and have pretty much nothing to do with this city (other than, I think, the Vancouver Canadians being one of their minor league affiliates).

So given the presence of all that other stuff, it's a bit sobering to see the Lions are garnering such a meagre share of their sports coverage. It seems clear that they provide only the most perfunctory level of Lions coverage, providing only game previews and post-game reports with absolutely no in-depth reporting on other team news.

[Alputt]

Another interesting segment on Global last night that points to challenges the Lions face that all the marketing efforts in the world cannot cure. In a recent survey targeting young families in Vancouver 58% said they expect they will have to move out of Vancouver within 3 years. The term "Vancouver" is always used so generally I don't know if that mean City of Vancouver proper or Vancouver plus burbs. Regardless it's not a good sign that those young families the Lions desperately need as their future fanbase feel that they will have no choice but to leave the immediate market area.

Vancouver plus 'burbs.

Yeah I am in this demographic. 35 and born and raised here (Vancouver & Coquitlam) seen plenty of high school buddies up stakes for Alberta, Sask, Ontario and Montreal. I believe in terms of "within Canada" Vancouver has had a net outflow of people for some time, made up for by international immigration for better or worse. Have considered leaving many times myself, family keeps me here but becoming a homeowner of any sort is not on the cards for my generation if things continue as they have.

This is an economic and political issue that transcends the Lions, however this is why I keep shaking my head at the seat pricing. Don't let the existing fan polls fool you, for the next generation of fans, under 40, the struggle is real. Add in a family? Forget about it.

And unfortunately many recent arrivals, my neighbours and friends, just don't "get" Canadian football. Much easier to "fit in" at "the worlds game" (Whitecaps) or jump on the Canucks bandwagon.

[David]

There was a sobering reminder Wednesday of just how much the Lions organization needs to raise its game as they struggle to maintain traction in the local sporting landscape. Sure, they have much better TV ratings than the Whitecaps and perhaps beat them in a few other metrics.....but not the one called 'putting butts in the seats' anymore.

A case in point. The Whitecaps played a home game Wednesday night against some club by the name of Real (pronounced "Ree-Al") Salt Lake, a middle-of-the-road MLS squad if there ever was one - their version of the Argos, and while it was a sunny evening down at BC Place and our home game the previous Thursday was on one of those cold, rainy nights that most folks want to just hunker down in front of the TV, it was announced as a sellout at 22,120.

Granted, one look at stands on TV told me that it wasn't a true 'sellout,' even in their tarped version of a lower bowl capacity, but it wasn't far off. Let's say there were 1,000 empty seats max - they still had 21,000 there for a mid-week game while we drew (at best) under 19,000 - probably more like 17K or 18K while starting the season 2-0 to boot (the 'Caps were a game under :500 going into that match). The bowl was largely full below the tarps - no swaths of empty sections like we see for Lions games, which tells me they're getting their pricing right. Perhaps the Lions could learn a thing or two about what they're doing to cultivate fans.


DH

[SammyGreene]

There was a sobering reminder Wednesday of just how much the Lions organization needs to raise its game as they struggle to maintain traction in the local sporting landscape. Sure, they have much better TV ratings than the Whitecaps and perhaps beat them in a few other metrics.....but not the one called 'putting butts in the seats' anymore.

A case in point. The Whitecaps played a home game Wednesday night against some club by the name of Real (pronounced "Ree-Al") Salt Lake, a middle-of-the-road MLS squad if there ever was one - their version of the Argos, and while it was a sunny evening down at BC Place and our home game the previous Thursday was on one of those cold, rainy nights that most folks want to just hunker down in front of the TV, it was announced as a sellout at 22,120.

Granted, one look at stands on TV told me that it wasn't a true 'sellout,' even in their tarped version of a lower bowl capacity, but it wasn't far off. Let's say there were 1,000 empty seats max - they still had 21,000 there for a mid-week game while we drew (at best) under 19,000 - probably more like 17K or 18K while starting the season 2-0 to boot (the 'Caps were a game under :500 going into that match). The bowl was largely full below the tarps - no swaths of empty sections like we see for Lions games, which tells me they're getting their pricing right. Perhaps the Lions could learn a thing or two about what they're doing to cultivate fans.


DH

Some great points here David. We tend to look for a lot of excuses not to attend games — day of week and time, weather, opponent, conflicting events — to the point where the stars have to be aligned to expect more casual fans to turn up. Lions entered that game 2-0 and weren't playing at home again for over a MONTH. Hardly a sacrifice if you are a big enough fan of the team and want to see them for the last time live until mid-August. Whitecaps have a home game tonight and again on Tuesday so there were lots of reason to blow off that Wednesday game yet it was at near their capacity.

Just a couple changes I would like to see:

$20 season ticket for children 16 and under with a parent purchase: Lions need a younger fan base in a hurry. Not just the kids but the 30 something parents as well.

The return of gold section seats: When the Lions returned to BC Place in 2011, they eliminated the gold sections and made the top end priced seats between the 20 yard lines instead of the 30. Now you are seeing huge pockets of empty seats where the golds use to be as $85 to sit on the 20 yard line is not great value. Bring back that price break (its only about 8 sections in total) which at least should help fill all those sideline seats and create much better optics for television and current/future sponsors.

[DanoT]

It is pretty clear to me that the bean counters are in charge and they are happy to charge more per ticket, get less people in the building and make more money than if they lowered prices and attracted more fans.

[CardiacKid]

It is pretty clear to me that the bean counters are in charge and they are happy to charge more per ticket, get less people in the building and make more money than if they lowered prices and attracted more fans.

Bean counting = no long-term vision, lack of ideas, mere functionaries, out of touch with customer-base, creative problem solving missing....

C'mon Lions, prove me wrong.

[TheLionKing]

It is pretty clear to me that the bean counters are in charge and they are happy to charge more per ticket, get less people in the building and make more money than if they lowered prices and attracted more fans.

At some point the Lions are going to reach the saturation point where season ticket holders aren't going to pony up the hefty prices to watch in person what they can do at home.

[dawg3648]

While the Caps may be the "in" thing to do these days...it is well known Lenarduzzi fudges attendance figures on average 3,000 per game. I had a buddy there on Wed. and he mentioned the announced crowd or 22,800 was a joke and he estimated about 18K. Lenarduzzi is incredibly anal about attendance and is known to tarp up empty seats even at halftime of games.

On a broader question, what is the long term health of the MLS? The league loses 100mil per year, average team salary is around 9 mil annually, the TV numbers are horrid and not improving (CFL outdraws MLS on ESPN2 with two American MLS teams playing) and their gate averages 16K league wide. I realize a franchise fee is 100 mil which is spread between teams but expansion will eventually end and then what? Current TV contracts will definitely not be going up based on current viewership.

What is their long term business model?

Where is their revenue stream coming from to support the costs?

Some say Ponzi scheme? http://www.soccernomics-agency.com/?p=692

[LakeLions]

Brian, you need to stop shredding the MLS and think more about what the Lions are doing. And quit using TV numbers to show how strong the Lions are. The Argos are a complete afterthought in Toronto, and get similar TV number to the Lions. TV numbers are becoming a red herring for a lot of CFL fans. The league is strong, but those numbers clearly don't tell a lot about the health of individual franchises - namely Toronto and BC


On a different but similar note, I see Skulsky joined Tom Maywhat on 1040 and was talking about the Lions situation. I actually haven't listened yet http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040- ... m-1.527839

[Qman]

Brian, you need to stop shredding the MLS and think more about what the Lions are doing. And quit using TV numbers to show how strong the Lions are. The Argos are a complete afterthought in Toronto, and get similar TV number to the Lions. TV numbers are becoming a red herring for a lot of CFL fans. The league is strong, but those numbers clearly don't tell a lot about the health of individual franchises - namely Toronto and BC


On a different but similar note, I see Skulsky joined Tom Maywhat on 1040 and was talking about the Lions situation. I actually haven't listened yet http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040- ... m-1.527839

he bascially said:
- TV number are up around the league 10% and lions numbers are up way more
- lots of fans are on the sidelines in a "show me" and we need to deliver
- we have to have a 1 thursday game, but they are committed to saturday / friday for the rest. -- know their will be no shows for thursdays
- thursday games are to drive younger demographics on TSN and in the stands. plus a couple teams want thursdays in summer.