Province Article Today by Susan Lazaruk

[Hambone]

Please don't take my question to be snide or sarcastic but I am genuinely curious as to what the Whitecaps do in terms of marketing and fan experience that ranks them far ahead of the Lions? I don't live in the Lower Mainland so I expect a lot of the Whitecaps marketing simply escapes my view.

I'm curious about that too. I also live well outside the lower mainland. The only Whitecaps ad I see on TV is the same one with Lenarduzzi and the coach sitting there listening to a Squire Barnes sports report. That same ad has been running over and over for 2 years. The Whitecaps have the Southsiders that do lots of singing and flag waving but that's a soccer thing foreign to North American sports. Was the Whitecap organization and some special marketing hocus pocus the cause of that or is it something the fans did to make them feel like European fans? I'd love to hear exact specific examples of promotion or marketing initiatives the Whitecaps organization does that the Lions don't or fail at. Interestingly up here in PG soccer is hugely popular thanks to the cultural mix of English, Scottish, Italian, Portuguese and Croation communities to name a few. Yet when I hear them talking soccer at the pubs, and they do that a lot, I hear the names of all kinds of European clubs and players but rarely do I hear the Whitecaps being brought up. A lot of the same people will talk Lions or NFL football before the Whitecaps are mentioned.

[Rocko604]

Please don't take my question to be snide or sarcastic but I am genuinely curious as to what the Whitecaps do in terms of marketing and fan experience that ranks them far ahead of the Lions? I don't live in the Lower Mainland so I expect a lot of the Whitecaps marketing simply escapes my view.

I'm curious about that too. I also live well outside the lower mainland. The only Whitecaps ad I see on TV is the same one with Lenarduzzi and the coach sitting there listening to a Squire Barnes sports report. That same ad has been running over and over for 2 years. The Whitecaps have the Southsiders that do lots of singing and flag waving but that's a soccer thing foreign to North American sports. Was the Whitecap organization and some special marketing hocus pocus the cause of that or is it something the fans did to make them feel like European fans? I'd love to hear exact specific examples of promotion or marketing initiatives the Whitecaps organization does that the Lions don't or fail at. Interestingly up here in PG soccer is hugely popular thanks to the cultural mix of English, Scottish, Italian, Portuguese and Croation communities to name a few. Yet when I hear them talking soccer at the pubs, and they do that a lot, I hear the names of all kinds of European clubs and players but rarely do I hear the Whitecaps being brought up. A lot of the same people will talk Lions or NFL football before the Whitecaps are mentioned.

I couldn't tell you exactly what the Whitecaps marketing team does differently, but from my perspective when I'm downtown, their brand is just more prevalent. Whether it's banners, flags or billboards, they do a great job of getting their brand out there. The Whitecaps are also much more prevalent in social media. Not just in followers, but in advertising, and getting talked about online. When I see a Whitecaps story from a news outlet, people in the comments sections are engaged. With the Lions, it's "who cares?" "CFL sucks.", if you're lucky to get any comments at all.

As for the Southsiders, that was created by the supporters back in 1999 when the Whitecaps played in Swangard. And I wouldn't just limit to being a European thing. If you watch college football, some of the student sections rival Euro soccer fans. Ever seen a Duke basketball game? They call them the Cameron Crazies for a reason.

Unrelated, another thing I've noticed with younger people is while the MLS is not the best league in the world, that doesn't really seem to stop them from fully supporting the Caps. You don't hear them saying "Pfft, MLS sucks, EPL is all I follow" But I do see it with the Lions and the CFL as a whole. Maybe because of the Seahawks, younger fans are jumping on the bandwagon, but I hear time and time again young people not following or caring about the Lions or CFL but are glued to the NFL. There has got to be a reason the Whitecaps get away with it, but the Lions can't.

[B.C.FAN]

I don't revall ever seeing a Whitecaps ad online or on TV but I do notice the Whitecaps street banners hangong from every pole on across the Cambie Street Bridge. That's high-profile advertising.

[SammyGreene]

Unrelated, another thing I've noticed with younger people is while the MLS is not the best league in the world, that doesn't really seem to stop them from fully supporting the Caps. You don't hear them saying "Pfft, MLS sucks, EPL is all I follow" But I do see it with the Lions and the CFL as a whole. Maybe because of the Seahawks, younger fans are jumping on the bandwagon, but I hear time and time again young people not following or caring about the Lions or CFL but are glued to the NFL. There has got to be a reason the Whitecaps get away with it, but the Lions can't.

Unfortunately that isn't the case with the U18 Metro team I coach. All the talk about is Barcelona, Bayern Munich, the EPL, Messi, Neymar, Ronaldo, Martial and what seems like hundreds of more players. Why? Not only are they watching games but their playing FIFA all the time on their Playstation or Xbox. The exact same way it has had a major influence on the younger generation with NFL's Madden.

[johnnycanuck]

Please don't take my question to be snide or sarcastic but I am genuinely curious as to what the Whitecaps do in terms of marketing and fan experience that ranks them far ahead of the Lions? I don't live in the Lower Mainland so I expect a lot of the Whitecaps marketing simply escapes my view.

There are things I believe the Lions could improve but there are some changes with the game day experience that I do appreciate. And yes, I do agree the Lions are not very entertaining at this moment but I believe the very nature of the CFL game makes for entertaining football....despite the Lions efforts to prove otherwise.

Fair question, and the answer is somewhat complex, but I'll start with fan experience:

1. While this is partly the nature of soccer in general, the Whitecaps are very attuned to the organic nature of support and look for opportunities to incorporated that into their in game presentation. When the Caps introduce players or announce Whitecaps goals, the PA announcer simply says the first name of the player, the fans answer with the last name, it repeats twice, and then he says "thank you", the fans answer "you're welcome". The point here isn't the ritual, it's the awareness of the Caps as to the it happening and tailoring the announcement to to the way the fans respond. At Lions games, anything organic is immediately drowned out by "it's time to play the next AC/DC song", etc.
2. If it looks amateur, the Whitecaps won't do it. The most recent example was that incredibly lame half-time show at the Redblacks game ... you would never see anything like that at a Whitecaps game.
3. It even starts with the national anthem ... the Whitecaps have clearly hired a professional singer. The Lions, not so much.
4. The players ... the level of engagement with the Caps players to the fans, especially the supporters groups, is really cool. I've seen them pass the Voyaguers Cup to the fans to hold, I've seen them climb into the crowd after a big win, and I've seen Pedro Morales take the megaphone from one of the two main supporters groups and lead one of the cheers. While not all of that is practical for football, the intent speaks volumes.
5. Aren't you all tired of the Telus Optik Ball and the Coffee Cup Shuffle? The Lions haven't done anything new for years.
6. Again, this has a bit to do with soccer in general, but there's no being ordered around by the PA guy about when to cheer (thank god, Palliser was canned at least). No "sheep-ometer", etc.

Marketing/Promotions/Tickets:

1. The Whitecaps offer a discount to early renewals or new season tickets during the later part of the season. Can't remember the last time the Lions offered me a discount on anything.
2. Loyalty card program.
3. Jersey/Souvenir prices: a bit more reasonable than the Lions.
4. Merchandise: Setting aside jerseys, all CFL teams have exactly the same merchandise provided by Reebok and simply coloured and logoed for the team. Most of it is pretty unattractive. The Lions (and the CFL) have not insisted on any team differentiation to assist in marketing. The single exception was the Lions gun metal third jersey, and that's been shelved.
5. Investment in marketing: The Whitecaps have significantly more staff devoted to marketing, brand, and fan experience that the Lions.It shows.
6. Digital: compare the Lions app to the Whitecaps app and it's night and day. If you want to know what's happening during the game you're at or watching on the TV (starting lineup, subs (for soccer), live stats, depth chart (for football)), the gameday utility of the apps are incomparable. The Whitecaps is vastly superior.
7. Web: Lions website has the same lame look it's had for years. More importantly, it does not present as the website of a professional sports team. It says "arena league" all over it. This is partly a CFL issue as all their sites seem to use a similar template, but it's awful. Go to WhitecapsFC.com and compare.

I'm not a marketing guy, all I can tell you is that it feels more professional and more engaged to interact with the Whitecaps than with the Lions. Part of it is that I constantly feel like the Lions (like the Canucks) are desparate to remove every single dollar they can from my wallet. If I want a Travis Lulay jersey at a game, it costs $200 less my season ticket discount, so about $170. Do you know what a Richard Sherman Seahawks jersey costs at C-Link during a game? $80 US (with a season ticket holder discount). The Whitecaps charge $129 Cdn for a Morales or Tiebert jersey less their season's ticket holder discount. The Lions view merchandising solely as an profit centre on its own, where the Seahawks and Whitecaps get the marketing payoff of getting their merchandise out there being worn. Sure, they make money ... but they don't gouge.

I'm sure there's more, but that's a start.

[David]

This is really detailed and insightful johnnycanuck, thanks for posting.

Yes, there is a certain 'ham 'n egg' quality to the way in which the Lions present their product. I agree about point #5. While sponsor 'games' are likely part of the deal, they're tired and trite. Personally, I've had my fill of the Fisherman's Friend "Kiss Cam" which gets trotted out every home game and is usually pretty awkward. They can mothball that and the Tim Hortons coffee shuffle anytime.

And the young female MC Bianca is trying her best, but is not a professional announcer. She actually works for the Lions as a Marketing Coordinator! They fired Chris Palliser really close to the start of the season and - typical of the club - went for a cheap alternative. However, her voice is way too shrill and not modulated and it sounds like I am at high school event.


DH

[CardiacKid]

Please don't take my question to be snide or sarcastic but I am genuinely curious as to what the Whitecaps do in terms of marketing and fan experience that ranks them far ahead of the Lions? I don't live in the Lower Mainland so I expect a lot of the Whitecaps marketing simply escapes my view.

There are things I believe the Lions could improve but there are some changes with the game day experience that I do appreciate. And yes, I do agree the Lions are not very entertaining at this moment but I believe the very nature of the CFL game makes for entertaining football....despite the Lions efforts to prove otherwise.

Fair question, and the answer is somewhat complex, but I'll start with fan experience:

1. While this is partly the nature of soccer in general, the Whitecaps are very attuned to the organic nature of support and look for opportunities to incorporated that into their in game presentation. When the Caps introduce players or announce Whitecaps goals, the PA announcer simply says the first name of the player, the fans answer with the last name, it repeats twice, and then he says "thank you", the fans answer "you're welcome". The point here isn't the ritual, it's the awareness of the Caps as to the it happening and tailoring the announcement to to the way the fans respond. At Lions games, anything organic is immediately drowned out by "it's time to play the next AC/DC song", etc.
2. If it looks amateur, the Whitecaps won't do it. The most recent example was that incredibly lame half-time show at the Redblacks game ... you would never see anything like that at a Whitecaps game.
3. It even starts with the national anthem ... the Whitecaps have clearly hired a professional singer. The Lions, not so much.
4. The players ... the level of engagement with the Caps players to the fans, especially the supporters groups, is really cool. I've seen them pass the Voyaguers Cup to the fans to hold, I've seen them climb into the crowd after a big win, and I've seen Pedro Morales take the megaphone from one of the two main supporters groups and lead one of the cheers. While not all of that is practical for football, the intent speaks volumes.
5. Aren't you all tired of the Telus Optik Ball and the Coffee Cup Shuffle? The Lions haven't done anything new for years.
6. Again, this has a bit to do with soccer in general, but there's no being ordered around by the PA guy about when to cheer (thank god, Palliser was canned at least). No "sheep-ometer", etc.

Marketing/Promotions/Tickets:

1. The Whitecaps offer a discount to early renewals or new season tickets during the later part of the season. Can't remember the last time the Lions offered me a discount on anything.
2. Loyalty card program.
3. Jersey/Souvenir prices: a bit more reasonable than the Lions.
4. Merchandise: Setting aside jerseys, all CFL teams have exactly the same merchandise provided by Reebok and simply coloured and logoed for the team. Most of it is pretty unattractive. The Lions (and the CFL) have not insisted on any team differentiation to assist in marketing. The single exception was the Lions gun metal third jersey, and that's been shelved.
5. Investment in marketing: The Whitecaps have significantly more staff devoted to marketing, brand, and fan experience that the Lions.It shows.
6. Digital: compare the Lions app to the Whitecaps app and it's night and day. If you want to know what's happening during the game you're at or watching on the TV (starting lineup, subs (for soccer), live stats, depth chart (for football)), the gameday utility of the apps are incomparable. The Whitecaps is vastly superior.
7. Web: Lions website has the same lame look it's had for years. More importantly, it does not present as the website of a professional sports team. It says "arena league" all over it. This is partly a CFL issue as all their sites seem to use a similar template, but it's awful. Go to WhitecapsFC.com and compare.

I'm not a marketing guy, all I can tell you is that it feels more professional and more engaged to interact with the Whitecaps than with the Lions. Part of it is that I constantly feel like the Lions (like the Canucks) are desparate to remove every single dollar they can from my wallet. If I want a Travis Lulay jersey at a game, it costs $200 less my season ticket discount, so about $170. Do you know what a Richard Sherman Seahawks jersey costs at C-Link during a game? $80 US (with a season ticket holder discount). The Whitecaps charge $129 Cdn for a Morales or Tiebert jersey less their season's ticket holder discount. The Lions view merchandising solely as an profit centre on its own, where the Seahawks and Whitecaps get the marketing payoff of getting their merchandise out there being worn. Sure, they make money ... but they don't gouge.

I'm sure there's more, but that's a start.

Great reply! Thanks for the very considered answer.

I totally agree with you regarding your first point and I think that a fair number of people on Lionbackers share your opinion of the canned atmosphere and coaching of fans that have taken place at Lions' games. Yes, I prefer to show my appreciation of the play on the field on my own impetus and not because I am being prompted by the on-field announcer, the PA or the video screen. In years past, it has almost approached a sense of being berated. When left to their own devices, the majority of fans will make noise. I have long been intrigued by the soccer tradition of fans adopting songs and chants entirely on their own; watching a youtube video of Liverpool fans singing "You'll Never Walk Alone" prior to their last Champions League championship brings a lump to my throat.

I think this year the Lions have made strides towards eliminating (or at least reducing) the canned aspect of the fan experience; whether that is being done because the organization agrees with allowing an organic experience or they are cheaping out....The Optik Ball challenge was gone but made a reappearance last game; not sure why that occurred. As for the Coffee Cup challenge, I can't say I am tired of it....simply because I recently scored a jersey and a timcard

I think the Lions do a decent job of getting the players out amongst the public and those moments are successful. The guys that play for the Lions, while they are professional athletes, they are not far removed from being "everyday joes"...certainly when compared to the players in other leagues and the $ they can earn. My wife and I both work for a school district on the Island; she has booked the Lions to speak at her school and I have participated in their presentations. The kids just love it and they completely eat it up. We have also met a fair number of the players at various functions and have been impressed by how friendly and humble they are. But while I think the Lions do a decent job of getting the players to meet the fans, it seems like they are an untapped "resource" in many ways.

I agree the Lions marketing department does seem understaffed. At the start of the season I checked out the staff directory for the various departments in the operations side of the team and was struck by how few names I saw. Braley pinching pennies????? I am not a marketing guy by any stretch of the imagination but it seems a few extra bodies be a boon for getting the team a higher profile. Hopefully when the new ownership arrives, they increase the marketing budget significantly.

The Lions website is functional but I do find from time to time, dated information or inapplicable information. It does lead me to question how much attention the website does get. It certainly pales in comparison to the Tiger Cats site; a guy like Bob Young is not going to suffer through a weak website and it has been updated and improved several times since he took over the TiCats. The Lions mobile app is a curious combination of features and complete omissions like depth charts, etc. It needs a serious overhaul to make it something useful for fans during actual gameplay.

As for the merchandise, purchasing a jersey is actually cheaper from the Lions than the CFL site or Lids.ca to the tune of $20. I imagine Reebok has a pretty big say, as does the league itself, into what the retail price is for a jersey. The Lions do have a number of items available at the games and online store that are not for sale via the CFL or Lids.ca. As for how attractive it is, each to their own. I remember the crowd reaction to the 3rd jersey when first seen and it really was a collective "ooooooo.....". My wife immediately said "I want one of those" and we bought after the first quarter. Good thing we did as they were sold out by half-time. In my opinion, the best thing I can say about the Whitecaps jersey is that it is inoffensive.... Which could be a good thing considering how ugly some soccer jerseys are..and yes, I love to read those articles in Four Four Two where they rate the ugliest soccer jerseys of all time so I know a bit of which I speak (write?).

As for discounts for season ticket holders, I think the Lions should be given credit for a few incentives. The food vouchers, the increased merchandise discount, two free tickets, early renewers get entered into the Nissan giveaway and on the website, check out the following link for discounts at local pubs...http://www.bclions.com/ticket-holder-benefits

[DanoT]

For those that complain about the replay screen imploring fans to "Make Noise", I observed those ribbon type video boards imploring fans to "Get Loud" and "Please Do Not Make Noise" (when the team was on Offense) at the recent NFL Kansas City Chiefs game TV telecast. So the NFL does it too.

[TheLionKing]

[*]It even starts with the national anthem ... the Whitecaps have clearly hired a professional singer. The Lions, not so much.

One of my pet peeves. The people they trot out to sing the national anthem seem to think they are auditioning for a talent show. Some of them can't even pronounce Canada.

[Robbie]

Great points and comments everyone, analyzing and comparing the marketing techniques between the Lions and the Whitecaps.

One aspect that is definitely NOT a factor to the mostly male audience is the issue of sex appeal. The Lions have their Felions and the eight other CFL teams also have dancers or cheerleaders. While cheerleaders are not common in soccer, certain MLS teams do have cheerleaders/dancers, most notably from the Houston Dynamo - the Dynamo Girls: http://www.houstondynamo.com/dynamogirls
[video][/video]

But the Whitecaps don't need any cheerleaders to fill up the lower bowl.

[CardiacKid]

I forgot to mention and I am actually serious when I say this....but I think the Felions have improved this year in terms of actual dance routines and skills. First of all, they ditched those stupid boots that would have limited how crisp their moves would be and went with proper dancing shoes. I remember from the 2011 Grey Cup, that while we beat the Bombers, their cheerleaders cleaned the Felions clocks in terms of how entertaining their dance moves were.

And another thing...where the hell is Geroy on advertising posters, ads and such? One of the most recognizable faces in Lions history and certainly its most famous name in recent history is a member of team management. I assumed when he returned to the Lions, he would be front and centre in getting the Lions name out there.

[DanoT]

I forgot to mention and I am actually serious when I say this....but I think the Felions have improved this year in terms of actual dance routines and skills. First of all, they ditched those stupid boots that would have limited how crisp their moves would be and went with proper dancing shoes. I remember from the 2011 Grey Cup, that while we beat the Bombers, their cheerleaders cleaned the Felions clocks in terms of how entertaining their dance moves were.

And another thing...where the hell is Geroy on advertising posters, ads and such? One of the most recognizable faces in Lions history and certainly its most famous name in recent history is a member of team management. I assumed when he returned to the Lions, he would be front and centre in getting the Lions name out there.

So you are saying the face of the franchise should be a former player? What does that say about the current players?

[CardiacKid]

I forgot to mention and I am actually serious when I say this....but I think the Felions have improved this year in terms of actual dance routines and skills. First of all, they ditched those stupid boots that would have limited how crisp their moves would be and went with proper dancing shoes. I remember from the 2011 Grey Cup, that while we beat the Bombers, their cheerleaders cleaned the Felions clocks in terms of how entertaining their dance moves were.

And another thing...where the hell is Geroy on advertising posters, ads and such? One of the most recognizable faces in Lions history and certainly its most famous name in recent history is a member of team management. I assumed when he returned to the Lions, he would be front and centre in getting the Lions name out there.

So you are saying the face of the franchise should be a former player? What does that say about the current players?

Face of the franchise would be overstating the intent of my post. But the guy is a Lions legend and easily the most recognizable name and face the team possessed for a fair number of years. Casual fans and watchers of the game are going to recognize him placed on a poster, a TV ad or radio spot. Committed fans of the team are the ones who will respond to the current roster of players and they are not the ones the team needs to put in seats.

Keep putting current players like Sol E. and Bighill out there in the public eye but Geroy is on the friggin' payroll for christ sakes! Why bring him back into the fold so quickly after his retirement if there wasn't some sort of plan to take advantage of his fame with not only fans in the lower mainland but across the province? It seems like the guy is being kept under wraps, the only item I have seen with his face or name attached is the video shown on the big screen during games.

[TheLionKing]

I have serious doubt that trotting out Geroy Simon is going to attract any fans to the game.

[DanoT]

Cardia Kid wrote:

"Face of the franchise would be overstating the intent of my post. But the guy is a Lions legend and easily the most recognizable name and face the team possessed for a fair number of years. Casual fans and watchers of the game are going to recognize him placed on a poster, a TV ad or radio spot. Committed fans of the team are the ones who will respond to the current roster of players and they are not the ones the team needs to put in seats.

Keep putting current players like Sol E. and Bighill out there in the public eye but Geroy is on the friggin' payroll for christ sakes! Why bring him back into the fold so quickly after his retirement if there wasn't some sort of plan to take advantage of his fame with not only fans in the lower mainland but across the province? It seems like the guy is being kept under wraps, the only item I have seen with his face or name attached is the video shown on the big screen during games."


I wonder if Geroy would make a good GM replacement when Wally retires in a few years. (Sooner I hope) Geroy's recognition in the community could help with support by businesses and be a useful, knowledgeable presence at a lot of public functions.

From a practicable point of view AFAIK Geroy is currently focusing on scouting. A skill needed by a GM.

Former players that are GMs (not counting Huff and Austin) Ed Hervey after a bumpy start seems to doing fine in Edmonton and interim GM O'Day in Regina, who knows, but he is for sure in the running to be the permanent guy.