Hamilton in Guelph

[zark]

Why is Guelph chosen over McMaster.

Just in case anyone was wondering...

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2 ... adium.html

Tiger Cats fans face long drive to small stadium

University of Guelph officials are well aware that the Tiger Cats' move to their facility isn't a purrfect solution for the people of Hamilton.

Ideally, the TiCats would be playing in a rebuilt Pan Am stadium in Hamilton next year, says Tom Kendall, athletics director at the University of Guelph.

“That would be the purrfect scenario — but that's not going to happen,” Kendall said. “This is the best alternative given the predicament.”

The TiCats said Tuesday that the University of Guelph's Alumni Stadium will be the team's temporary home for the next CFL season. Kendall says that will mean about six games in Guelph, plus any playoff games.

While the CFL club and the university have a memorandum of understanding, a statement released by the TiCats said there are still unspecified 'logistical issues' that need to be resolved before a final agreement can be signed.

The two sides hope to work out those issues over the next couple of weeks.

Ivor Wynne Stadium, the team's former home, is scheduled for demolition in December to make way for a new facility.
Making the trip

Hordes of TiCat fans will need to drive around 45 minutes north up Highway 6 to Alumni stadium for games.

Alumni stadium is much smaller than what TiCat fans will be used to. Capacity is listed at 7,600 — 4,100 seats in the stadium bleachers, and 3,500 on the hill.
Kendall says the biggest crowd the stadium has seen is around 10,000 for a Yates Cup game four years ago. Officials hope to expand that capacity by another few thousand.

“We have an architectural company looking at what's feasible right now,” Kendall said.

Alumni stadium is an outdoor facility, built in 1970. It got a major facelift this summer when the school pumped in $4.5 million worth of renovations.

Crews replaced the field, the track and installed a new video board. New lights are currently being erected to allow for night games and TV broadcasts.
'Plenty of parking'

Then there's parking. Though the details are still being hammered out, Kendall says there should be plenty of room.

“Our campus is a little more wide open and accessible. Compared to Hamilton, we're kind of out in the country,” he said. “The plan is to seal off a number of our parking lots at game time.”

That could mean anywhere from 1,500 to 3,000 spaces set aside for fans, he said.

GO Transit may add extra buses to shuttle fans to and from games.

“In the new year, we will review the needs in light of the TiCats' plan to play at the University of Guelph next season and determine if additional service is required,” said Malon Edwards, media relations officer for Metrolinx.
So why not Mac?

Many fans are no doubt still scratching their heads as to why a deal between the TiCats and McMaster couldn't be hammered out.

It all comes down to space, says Gord Arbeau, McMaster's director of public and community relations.

“We're a landlocked campus,” Arbeau said. “When the TiCats approached us last spring, there were a number of challenges that were McMaster specific.”

One is capacity. Arbeau says it just wouldn't be possible to expand Ron Joyce Stadium's 5,500 seats to the 15,000 needed for TiCats games without causing major disruptions on campus. Guelph just has more room.

The other is McMaster's on-site hospital. “We have to ensure easy access to the hospital,” Arbeau says — something that would become almost impossible on game days.

[Toppy Vann]

There were some stores on that but I do not recall what happened or if it was that they couldn't make a deal or that stadium wasn't free when they needed dates there.

[cromartie]

There were some stores on that but I do not recall what happened or if it was that they couldn't make a deal or that stadium wasn't free when they needed dates there.

I put the blame squarely on McMaster. They didn't want their stadium sullied by the traffic.

[B.C.FAN]

There were some stores on that but I do not recall what happened or if it was that they couldn't make a deal or that stadium wasn't free when they needed dates there.

I put the blame squarely on McMaster. They didn't want their stadium sullied by the traffic.

I used to blame McMaster too until I visited the campus last year and checked out Ron Joyce Stadium myself. It's in a nice neighbourhood but I can see that the lack of access could be a problem for the hospital and the campus. The stadium is at the back end of the landlocked campus, with virtually no access other than a two-lane road past the hospital. Unless most fans were bused in, the campus couldn't accommodate game-day crowds of 15,000.

[zark]

There were some stores on that but I do not recall what happened or if it was that they couldn't make a deal or that stadium wasn't free when they needed dates there.

I put the blame squarely on McMaster. They didn't want their stadium sullied by the traffic.

Hamilton Health Sciences spokesperson Agnes Bongers said McMaster consulted with the hospital corporation about the proposed Ticats games and potential traffic congestion on Main.

“Looking at that, we felt that it had the potential to affect patient care at McMaster University Medical Centre and McMaster Children’s Hospital,” she said.

If you look at where the hospitals are in Guelph, you'd understand . A football game wouldn't interfere with patient care or childrens care in their city.

it had the potential to affect patient care at McMaster University Medical Centre and McMaster Children’s Hospital

That's why it went to Guelph.

[sj-roc]

There were some stores on that but I do not recall what happened or if it was that they couldn't make a deal or that stadium wasn't free when they needed dates there.

I put the blame squarely on McMaster. They didn't want their stadium sullied by the traffic.

I used to blame McMaster too until I visited the campus last year and checked out Ron Joyce Stadium myself. It's in a nice neighbourhood but I can see that the lack of access could be a problem for the hospital and the campus. The stadium is at the back end of the landlocked campus, with virtually no access other than a two-lane road past the hospital. Unless most fans were bused in, the campus couldn't accommodate game-day crowds of 15,000.

I had a look at the McM campus on google maps; these facts above make the reasons behind McM's decision clearer but it does raise the question of why the decision was made to locate a varsity football stadium and campus hospital so close to each other in the first place. I don't know the history of the area or which of the two was built first but I suppose this all happened at a time perhaps many decades ago when contemporary logistics and concerns were much different than today.

At UBC, Thunderbird is not exactly optimally located for the campus visitor but it is nonetheless sufficiently removed from the campus hospital to preclude such issues of interference. If this were not the case then Thunderbird's viability as a summer concert venue, for example, might be greatly compromised. So I'm guessing RJS also doesn't get much in the way of summer concerts, either, for the same reasons that the Ticats can't play there. I suppose the situation at McM is equivalent to what we would have here if SW Marine Drive were the only access into UBC from the city, with the campus hospital right on that road just across from the Musqueam lands and Thunderbird located not far west beyond this. The availability of the old Empire grounds precluded the question, but could Thunderbird have temporarily hosted the Lions in 2010/11 under such circumstances? Not obviously so. I know I wouldn't want to hear that my dad died of a heart attack just because the ambulance couldn't get him into the ER fast enough on account of all the traffic en route to the football game.

[Hambone]

Doing a Google Earth look at the two options and it's pretty easy to see that while McMaster looks more upscale as a facility Guelph is the better option.

McMASTER:
According to Wikipedia McMaster seats 6000 and they can add another 6000 for special events. Looking at the aerial view I'm not even sure how they can shoehorn in another 6000 never mind 9000 or 10000 to at least get capacity over the 15K mark. The field is bordered by buildings on the south endzone. Mitchell Crescent runs parallel to the field on the west side and there's only 35' between the curb and the sideline of the gridiron. That same street curls around the corner of the north endzone towards the entrance to a parkade that is located underneath the field. There's only 45' between the parkade entrance and the backline of the endzone. Regardless it's one thing to add a bunch of temporary seats for a single event and quite another to do so for a full football season. Whatever is set up has to remain in place for the entire season. Most of the buildings in the immediate vicinity of the stadium are student residences so you know any outdoor parking lots in the area will be full once school kicks in. Clearly doing whatever would be necessary to house a CFL team temporarily would be very disruptive to McMaster once Labour Day is behind them and it's functioning full tilt as a university with 25000 undergrads attending.

GUELPH:
The Guelph situation is much different. There are far fewer permanent seats but it's pretty much wide open spaces as far as adding temps. Very similar to the Empire location with room on all 4 sides to add temps without having to encroach on existing streets and other university infrastructure. It also looks to be set up much better for access and egress road wise. Looks like there are also some parking options there that don't exist at McMaster with a few lots adjacent to Alumni Stadium that don't appear to be of any other purpose than to support the athletic fields there.

To answer SJ-Roc's question re: Ron Joyce according to Wikipedia it was built only 5 years ago. Keep in mind it was built with the intention of hosting CIS football and other events. Hosting 15000+ for a single full CFL season would never have been in their plans when the location was selected. Marauder games are likely the most intense pressure the facility receives. Last year it was full for the season opener on Labour Day with 6200. After that though they had crowds of 4100, 5700 and 2200. One has to figure most of their attendance comes from students who would normally be on campus during the week; a good chunk of them walking the 500' from their residences to the stadium.

[JohnHenry]

There were some stores on that but I do not recall what happened or if it was that they couldn't make a deal or that stadium wasn't free when they needed dates there.

One factor in the McMaster shunning of the Ticats could be their Athletic Director, none other than Jeff Giles, formerly a senior CFL executive who was passed over as Commissioner, which created some animosity and Giles resignation from the league.


Looks good to me, other than all those people standing on the track might block the view from the lower rows?


The Guelph cheerleader contingent looks good too!

[Hambone]

One factor in the McMaster shunning of the Ticats could be their Athletic Director, none other than Jeff Giles, formerly a senior CFL executive who was passed over as Commissioner, which created some animosity and Giles resignation from the league.

Doubt that would be a factor. Given how many millions Senator David Braley has donated to McMaster over the years I think he'd hold the trump cards if push came to shove and Bob Young needed someone to twist a few McMaster arms.

http://fhs.mcmaster.ca/main/benefactors/braley.html

[zark]

Is there a set number of permanent seats a CFL team must have?
I thought the Moncton stadium to be a bit low.
The Guelph stadium(albeit temp.) won`t hold anyone who just wants to `walk-up`after the Ticat season ticket holders get theirs. Watching a CFL game in Guelph would be SOO COOL. But could JUST ANYONE do it.
How many permanent seats are going into IWS.
IS 20,000 the best we can do. 25...only 30...
I know it costs alot to build a stadium. But but the the CFL use to get full houses. I don't get why cities don't think big.
http://cfldb.ca/stadium-status/
Ottawa (returning 2014) Frank Clair Stadium at Lansdowne Park
(2014) Open Air Artificial 22,500

Hamilton (Hamilton Tiger-Cats) Ivor Wynne Stadium Open Air Artificial 29,600
University of Guelph Alumni Stadium (2013) Open Air Artificial 12,000–15,000
New Pan-Am Stadium (2014)
[On Ivor Wynne Stadium site] Open Air Artificial 22,500
Montreal (Montreal Alouettes) Percival Molson Memorial Stadium Open Air Artificial 25,012
At least Winnipeg thinks size does matter.
Winnipeg (Winnipeg Blue Bombers) Canad Inns Stadium Open Air Artificial 29,530
Investors Group Field (2013) Open Air Artificial 33,500
Shouldn't the size of stadiums being built reflect the popularity of the cfl.
The Argos are 2nd class citizens in the Skydome, thanks to Rogers.They need their own home, but who will build it.

Training camp is nearing...Go Lions Go!!!

I'm just on a mini rant...Thanks.

[DanoT]

You need to realize that at the new Hamilton stadium, all 22,500 seats will be goal line to goal line with no end zone seating (temp end zone seats for a Grey Cup?). This is like building a 30k+ seat stadium minus the end zone seating.

Think about this: it cosst just as much to build the cheap end zone seats as seats on the 55yard line, but end zone seats produce way less revenue so eliminating them to cut costs is a good plan Hamilton.