Clarification on our OLine

[MexicoLionFan]

As the dust settles from the thumping we gave in Hamilton last night, where do we stand with our OLine...I am really unsure about this...

Norman has gone back to school, but has committed to return to us next year...okay, starting LG for the next decade, right? (Nice draft pick Kelly!)

Jon HR has a compressed spinal disc, its a big deal and he might not play again, ever??? WTF? When did this happen?

Jesse Newman has a permanently damaged knee, will suck it up for the rest of the season for us as a back up, but also may never play again? Really? Again, WTF??? Lion OLinemen are dropping like flies...

So Kabongo is our LG for the rest of the season, is that it? Valli has no one pushing him and his sub par play at RG? And what happens if any of the inside 3 get hurt? Newman first in at the G position...Babs at C...is that is? Who else do we have available???

WCJ reminded me that we have Ben Ossai on the practise roster (from the UW, he looked great in preseason), could we ultimately go with 3 imports on the OLine and play Canadians elsewhere?

Who else is a little concerned about this? I mean is Jon HR coming back this season? No? Is it too late for Wally to wrangle a deal? I know the trade deadline passed...a little help please...

[SammyGreene]

As the dust settles from the thumping we gave in Hamilton last night, where do we stand with our OLine...I am really unsure about this...

Norman has gone back to school, but has committed to return to us next year...okay, starting LG for the next decade, right? (Nice draft pick Kelly!)

Jon HR has a compressed spinal disc, its a big deal and he might not play again, ever??? WTF? When did this happen?

Jesse Newman has a permanently damaged knee, will suck it up for the rest of the season for us as a back up, but also may never play again? Really? Again, WTF??? Lion OLinemen are dropping like flies...

So Kabongo is our LG for the rest of the season, is that it? Valli has no one pushing him and his sub par play at RG? And what happens if any of the inside 3 get hurt? Newman first in at the G position...Babs at C...is that is? Who else do we have available???

WCJ reminded me that we have Ben Ossai on the practise roster (from the UW, he looked great in preseason), could we ultimately go with 3 imports on the OLine and play Canadians elsewhere?

Who else is a little concerned about this? I mean is Jon HR coming back this season? No? Is it too late for Wally to wrangle a deal? I know the trade deadline passed...a little help please...

Sadly, MexicoLionFan you summed it up perfectly.

Jon HR's injury is apparently from over compensating his knee problems that led to too much strain on his back. Newman apparently has no more meniscus left in his knee following surgery so it's bone on bone and plenty of discomfort that comes with it but will grind it out no the Lions lack of options right now. Very tragic given these guys are not even in the prime of their careers.

Kabango has really stepped up the last couple of games and kudos to him. Valli has struggled all season with another bad holding call last night, wiping out Taylor's circus TD catch. It will be interesting to see how well the o-line holds up against better defensive lines which they will see against Edmonton and Saskatchewan in the coming weeks.

Looking ahead to 2013 could be looking at 4 new starters on the o-line if Reid retires and Olafioye tries the NFL again which everything suggests he will. Signing Fabian will be almost a must for Wally.

[B.C.FAN]

Accurate? Yes.
Worried? No. The Lions at least dress a couple of interior O-linemen who can step in when needed. They've been lucky that they haven't had a tackle go down. I don't know who on their 42-man roster would be able to fill in for Archibald or Olafioye.

[pennw]

Accurate? Yes.
Worried? No. The Lions at least dress a couple of interior O-linemen who can step in when needed. They've been lucky that they haven't had a tackle go down. I don't know who on their 42-man roster would be able to fill in for Archibald or Olafioye.

Could not Ossai step in for one of the tackles ? Who besides Baboulas is there that could step in for one of the NI inside ?

[WestCoastJoe]

We have wasted a lot of draft picks on O Linemen that Dorazio found wanting.

Hubert something ... A guy with a French name ... Morencie ... Other guys ... Either bad drafts or confused personnel thinking later. Dunno ... sometimes I think it is just time for Dan Dorazio to retire. I recall some talk of this guy is not big enough. Then why the heck waste a draft pick on him? And the health issues also cannot ignore who has been the coach of the group for ten years.

It has been a mess, in different ways for a long time. Pass protection. Changing schemes. Cut blocks and rollups with Jimenez. Work habits with Murphy. Too much junk in the head for Valli. Reid phased out for 2011. Oops can't do that. IMO Archibald is not the dominant tackle he was when he came over from Calgary. Newman learned his trade in Calgary.

After ten years what kind of depth and skill has Dorazio built? Is it a cohesive unit, or a patchwork?

Too tough an assessment? Dunno ...

[B.C.FAN]

Could not Ossai step in for one of the tackles ? Who besides Baboulas is there that could step in for one of the NI inside ?

Ossai is on the practice roster. He could be activated if someone goes down during the week but not during a game. Baboulas and Newman are the two backup linemen on the game-day roster. Baboulas plays tight end in several packages. When he had to play centre for Reid last week, Tim Cronk replaced him as tight end.

[TheLionKing]

Seems like the Lions' priority in next year's Canadian draft is offensive linemen

[Rodu]

Seems like the Lions' priority in next year's Canadian draft is offensive linemen

I was hoping for safety, but you're prob right

[pennw]

Could not Ossai step in for one of the tackles ? Who besides Baboulas is there that could step in for one of the NI inside ?

Ossai is on the practice roster. He could be activated if someone goes down during the week but not during a game. Baboulas and Newman are the two backup linemen on the game-day roster. Baboulas plays tight end in several packages. When he had to play centre for Reid last week, Tim Cronk replaced him as tight end.

I was asking this with the idea of Newman having a shot knee as stated above by MLF . Newman toughing it outas a back-up with a shot knee is different than having him pressed into full time service should another OL go down . Could he do it ? Is his knee really done ? If so , BC is suddenly very thin at O-line with JHR already out again .

[pennw]

Seems like the Lions' priority in next year's Canadian draft is offensive linemen

Seems like a neglected area for too long with the "best availble player " mindset the management has had for too long . Jamal Lee was that best available player that year too , didn't do us much good not using him however . An O-line men would have been more useful , hopefully that attitude changes next draft . Get some one we need instead of great athlete at a position we have no need in .

[MexicoLionFan]

Wow...I am not happy that I was correct on this stuff...Babs and Newman are our only backups during games??? Incredible...

Soloman Eliminian is not worth (at least right now) going with only these 2 OLine backups and one of them is playing on one leg and the other has had barely any experience...

Don't you think that we should start dressing Ossai for games, and only use him in case of emergencies??? Put him down as the #3 QB if necessary...

Yikes...

WCJ, that was a more than fair analysis of Dorazio's tenure in BC...our line is a shambles short of the trade for Archibald and Shivers finding Olafoye...and you are right, we have spent pick after pick, year after year on OLinemen and where are they now...and come on, Jon HR has never shown us anything but injuries, counting on him to be part of the starting lineup wasn't the smartest move by Wally...

I am not worried about next year...Norman is the real deal...Olafoye is good enough for the NFL, but with his heart condition, that will never go away, NFL teams may steer clear of him, so I think he and Archibald will be back...the same for Angus...one more year...so Norman at LG and then a trade...we have so much talent, even on our practise roster, we can easily deal for a good, younger OLineman from out east to take the RG position and put Valli, Kabongo, and Babs are backups...

Its this year I worry about, and as Sammy put it so well, what happens over the next 3 weeks against 3 very tough DLines???

I guess Kelly could always dress again...just kidding...well, maybe not...

[pennw]

Maybe Kelly has kept himself in shape .

[B.C.FAN]

A 42-man roster doesn't offer the luxury of dressing import backup offensive linemen. If you start the minimum seven Canadians, you can dress three designated imports. If you start eight, as the Lions did last week with Westerman on the D-line, you can dress four backup imports: Tim Brown, Lin-J Shell, Solomon Elimimian and Maurice Evans. If you dress Ossai as a backup O-lineman, you would have to remove Elimimian. That still leaves only a five-man rotation on the D-line and no room to add Mitchell and Taylor without dropping Evans and Jordan. I've always hoped the Lions would develop a non-import offensive lineman who could play tackle but they're extremely rare these days.

[MexicoLionFan]

A 42-man roster doesn't offer the luxury of dressing import backup offensive linemen. If you start the minimum seven Canadians, you can dress three designated imports. If you start eight, as the Lions did last week with Westerman on the D-line, you can dress four backup imports: Tim Brown, Lin-J Shell, Solomon Elimimian and Maurice Evans. If you dress Ossai as a backup O-lineman, you would have to remove Elimimian. That still leaves only a five-man rotation on the D-line and no room to add Mitchell and Taylor without dropping Evans and Jordan. I've always hoped the Lions would develop a non-import offensive lineman who could play tackle but they're extremely rare these days.

That's tough news BCFAN...but thanks for clarifying...it just scares me to think that Babs and Newman (on one leg) are our backups...and neither can play tackle...at all...maybe slide Kabongo outside and then Newman inside if we had to would be best...

Can Wally still make a deal with one of the also rans for Canadian OLine help right now???

[Blitz]

We have wasted a lot of draft picks on O Linemen that Dorazio found wanting.

Hubert something ... A guy with a French name ... Morencie ... Other guys ... Either bad drafts or confused personnel thinking later. Dunno ... sometimes I think it is just time for Dan Dorazio to retire. I recall some talk of this guy is not big enough. Then why the heck waste a draft pick on him? And the health issues also cannot ignore who has been the coach of the group for ten years.

It has been a mess, in different ways for a long time. Pass protection. Changing schemes. Cut blocks and rollups with Jimenez. Work habits with Murphy. Too much junk in the head for Valli. Reid phased out for 2011. Oops can't do that. IMO Archibald is not the dominant tackle he was when he came over from Calgary. Newman learned his trade in Calgary.

After ten years what kind of depth and skill has Dorazio built? Is it a cohesive unit, or a patchwork?

Too tough an assessment? Dunno ...

Excellent background analsis WCJ!!

I wrote about our offensive line challenges in the future on a previous thread but its worth discussing more because its a potential big problem.

Offensive line is a very difficult position to learn...probably the most difficult after the quarterback postion. You don't have to be overly brilliant to play receiver but you really need to be intelligent to play offensive line and thats why they usually take longer to develop, like a quarterback. Then there is the chemistry factor..offensive lines play in unison and the longer a line plays together, provided the talent is there, the better the offensive line is.

Reid could be gone next season, I wouldn't bet against Olofoye at least getting an NFL shot so in that scenario he would be gone for a long while even if he didn't make it in the NFL and returned. Newman is definitely gone and Hameister-Rees very likely too.

So we could start next season with only Archibald and the ever problematic Valli. Baboulas would be slotted at center, Norman could come in and start at guard and we would need to find an import tackle if Olofoye left. Kabongo will definitely be signed again with our present scenario.

It would mean a new center to make the all important line calls. The play is called and the center needs to read the defense, call out the blocking assignment, then audible a second one as the defense shifts, remember the snap count, and make his block as well, all in a couple of seconds. Its why Reed was placed back as our starter...not because of his blocking as much as his knowledge of the game...Valli was a disaster at center..heck he forgets the snap count at guard and he doesn't even have to read the defense.

A lot of chemistry will be lost next season if the changes take place. Perhaps Fabian can be convinced to sign here. We will need to draft an offensive lineman as our first rounder. We may also need to trade for a Canadian offensive lineman.