2010 End of Year Personnel Review

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

User avatar
Luke
All Star
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Yorkton

Rammer wrote:If Arceneaux is heading into his option year, is that a grandfathered NFL option year window that he is allowed. As I understand it any option year now is at the CFL clubs option, as the NFL option year window is null and void.
That's correct. The NFL option loophole doesn't close for good until February 2012. I was confused as well until I read a column on the Sportsnet website about it. So, two more off-seasons of having to put up with losing our promising young players to NFL tryouts, and then we stand a better chance at holding on to them...at least through their option year anyway.
nelson95
Legend
Posts: 1533
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:28 am
Location: Overpriced Valley

I see the Leos going to an all NI backfield and keeping Sanchez to ensure an import safety, Crawford was a disaster right up to the last play of the season. Miles at 1/2 speed would have been better. I also question whether Brent Johnson will be back, resigning Foley certainly would have sealed his fate. Newman won't be back if he asks for too much, an import can be brought in if Lee and Messum step up.

Lets wait and see what DD wants :good:
Give the ball to LeeRoy!
Game Day, Baby!
Rookie
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:40 am

Actually, I thought it was Hyland who messed up the coverage and missed the tackle on the last play of the season??
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

I really like Jesse Newman as an offensive lineman and think he has an excellent future...if playing footbaall is what he really wants to do.

I really believe that we could go with an all Canadian backfield next season. With Harris being utilized out of the backfield as a receiver and outside and Messam and Lumbala pounding the football, I think we would be fine, especially when we can also insert Davis on occasion, into the rotation. Howeveer, I doubt Wally would do it.

In terms of David Hyland, it was a huge adjustment to come into the season partway through and learn to play free safety, a position he had never played before but also a brand new position for an import, in learning the 12 man Canadian game and he did a great job there.

Hyland also did a good job at corner, when Sanchez went down. Yes, he mised the tackle on Clermont, on a short in route, but no way should Clermont have turned that into a huge gainer and a touchdown. Hyland should be able to miss that tackle and Clermont still be tackled for no more than 10-12 yards. However, that one play should not label him...he's a good one, hits a ton, is quick, and I sure hope we can start him at safety next year.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Interesting that Jamal Robertson might not want to come back. It was reported today that Robertson may want to spend time with his children and is considering retirement.

It could open the door for the opportunity for an all Canadian backfield, with players like Jamal Lee and Andrew Harris able to play tailback and Messam and Lumbala to also play in the backfield. Davis could also rotate in.

However, if Robertson does not return, the odds are that we will go with an import...import tailbacks are the easiest to find and Wally would likely lean that way...although I think it would also be a good ratio move.

With Arsenault wanting to try the NFL at this point and Robertson potentially leaving there could be holes to fill on offence. Geroy will also be year older and Father Time is still working on Geroy and at some point he will not be able to be our go to guy anymore. In some ways Arsenault was already moving into that role. Geroy has always been a receiver who was not 40 yard blazing fast but football fast. Silky smooth, he never ran sharp out patterns but he sure has known to set up defensive backs. While there are always differnt circumstances in route running, Geroy, instead of running away from a defensive back on his pass patterns, often liked to break down a defensive back's cushion, get as close to him as possible before making his cut, getting the back to turn his hips, and then breaking into space. However, Geroy dropped a lot of footballs this season (while still having a very good year) and has lost a half step. If Arsenault leaves and Geroy is not able to continue to play at an elite level, our offence will have challenges next season.

With Gore looking like he's ready and hopefully replacing Wilson, our offence could look quite different next season..guess we'll have an off-season and a 2011 training camp to find out.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
Luke
All Star
Posts: 325
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:05 pm
Location: Yorkton

Blitz wrote:I really like Jesse Newman as an offensive lineman and think he has an excellent future...if playing football is what he really wants to do.

I really believe that we could go with an all Canadian backfield next season. With Harris being utilized out of the backfield as a receiver and outside and Messam and Lumbala pounding the football, I think we would be fine, especially when we can also insert Davis on occasion, into the rotation. However, I doubt Wally would do it.

In terms of David Hyland, it was a huge adjustment to come into the season partway through and learn to play free safety, a position he had never played before but also a brand new position for an import, in learning the 12 man Canadian game and he did a great job there.

Hyland also did a good job at corner, when Sanchez went down. Yes, he missed the tackle on Clermont, on a short in route, but no way should Clermont have turned that into a huge gainer and a touchdown. Hyland should be able to miss that tackle and Clermont still be tackled for no more than 10-12 yards. However, that one play should not label him...he's a good one, hits a ton, is quick, and I sure hope we can start him at safety next year.
I was actually just thinking about a similar possibility. Not starting two CDNs in the backfield, but at least starting one, like say Lumbala at fullback next to either Davis or Robertson. Do we technically even start a fullback? Whenever I see our line up on the television they show five receivers, and one RB in the backfield with the QB.

I would love to see us utilize our fullbacks better. I know it was a constant point of criticism when we would let Lyle Green rot on the sidelines as opposed to using him as a receiver out of the backfield, which he was decent at. I don't know what Lumbala's hands are like, but I'd like to see them find out.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25105
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Seriously why do we need an import running back when we run the football 8-10 times a game ? We could use the the import to shore up the safety position.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

TheLionKing wrote:Seriously why do we need an import running back when we run the football 8-10 times a game ? We could use the the import to shore up the safety position.
I see it the same way and we have a number of Canadian players who could fulfill different roles. Andrew Harris and Jamal Lee both could run the swing out of the backfield well and do a good job in the passing game and both are very fast and could add speed to the running attack. Messam is a guy who can run the football well, both inside and outside. Lumbala could pound in short yardage. Bringing Davis into a game every fourth series would make our offence much more dangerous while keeping Davis fresh enough for punt returns...and we don't run the football a lot anyway.

We tied for last in the amount of times we rushed the football in the CFL this season..Hamilton was the other team that didn''t rush the football very much but their starting tailback was injured most of the season. We also had the least amount of first downs rushing and finished seventh in yards rushed and average yards gained per attempt.

In the meantime we make our pass defense that much better with Hyland playing safety.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Re the item raised by JH just above ...

Jamal Robertson.

I thought he was terrific all year. Running and receiving.

This next bit is just my opinion, and I know it could be controversial.

Messam and Lee are obviously amazing athletes. IMO that does not make them top level pro calibre running backs. Just like a strong arm does not make any guy a great quarterback. Or a big fast guy a great receiver. Even a big fast guy like Rolly Lumbala is not automatically a pro calibre running back. It is all the skills that make the top level running backs. Emmitt Smith was not big, not especially fast. But he had vision to find the holes in the midst of the unbelievable chaos of the line play. He had the ability to change his body position just enough to not give guys a clean shot. Et cetera.

IMO this is why Wally plays guys like Joe Smith, Antonio Warren, Martell Mallett, Jamal Robertson. Amazing skills. I love to watch these guys run through the mine fields.

This is one area where I agree with Wally in using imports for RB. Fortunately these guys are relatively plentiful coming from US colleges.
Robertson's appeal, Buono says, is not strictly as a runner (6.2-yard average). He also caught 54 passes this year, and is an excellent blocker. In addition, he played hard for two seasons in Toronto in what were often hopeless situations. Robertson did not quit when others may have been so inclined.

Replacing Robertson is easier said than done, Buono suggests. Two aspiring feature backs, Jerome Messam and Jamall Lee, don't have a head for the game yet. "They're talented, but can they handle the cerebral part?" Buono asks. "Do they know where to go?"

Buono believes Robertson, who turns 34 in January, is as smart as anyone in the game.
However, since we don't run much now that neither Dorazio nor Kruck are in the OC position calling more running plays, IMO it doesn't matter so much who is at RB. Might as well use these guys we have. And I also think that of Lee, Messam and Harris, Harris is the guy with true running back skills. Lee and Messam will have to develop their particular talents some more. And of course Rolly Lumbala is here to give us a true blocking back.

Not trying to upset anyone with this opinion. And not looking for argument.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

In reading John Henry and West Coast Joe's posts on the running back position for next season, first of all I agree with John Henry's assessment that none of the running backs we have are tested..not Messam or Lee or Harris or Lumbala.

I also agree with West Coast Joe, in that there are a lot of quaility import tailbacks available, as there always are.

First of all, I liked Robertson as a tailback this season and my thoughts of an all-Canadian backfield would be based upon Robertson deciding not to return and instead retire.

However, when I look at Jamal Lee and Andrew Harris I think we could be looking at either having the potential to become every bit as good as any tailback who would be available to us. First of all, with Jamal Lee, we traded our 6th and 13th picks in the 2009 draft so we could move up and take him 3rd in the draft. His blood lines are excellent in the fact that his dad Orville Lee led the CFL in rushing in 1988. Lee has blazing speed and was good enough to be signed right out of college at Bishops to spend 3 months with the Carolina Panthers.

Andrew Harris does not have a college playing background, playing junior football instead, but he led the Vancouver Island Raiders to three National Championships in 2006, 2008, and 2009 as a tailback and it was obvious by his play this year on kick and punt returns that he has serious wheels, moves, very good hands and talent. There have also been a lot of excellent players in the CFL come out of junior football-the Saskatchewan Roughriders have stacked their Canadian part of their roster with junior football players for years. Harris might take longer to develop but he oozes potential. When Harris ran a kick back 72 yards against Toronto and later in the season returned a punt for 55 yards he showed his big play ability.

I really believe one of them could develop into an excellent tailback. We're not talking about Chris Czarka type running styles here...these are two guys with wheels, moves, and very good hands. Does that equate into them being great tailbacks....no...but they have the talent to at least have the potential of becoming one.

I don't see Messam as a starting tailback but a guy who could come into the rotation as a blocker on passing downs and as a tough inside runner. Messam is a different running back than we've seen in the CFL. He has incredible szie and speed at 6-4 and 245 pounds he runs a 4.5 second 40 yard dash. Messam was considered the most talented player in the 2008 CFL draft but CFL teams did not want to take the risk of him due to off-field issues. At Grace University in 2009 Messam rushed for 1,075 yards and 12 touchdowns in his final season and was all-Conference. The New York Giants were very interested in Messam as a Brandon Jacobs style runner but a knee injury hurt his opportunity. Messam's size, speed, and toughness are attributes that make him a potential strong powerful inside runner who can come in on short yardage as well, as he did this season in rushing for two touchdowns. Messam's maturity/off-field behavior still make him a risk but he brings something to the table that is not easy to find. He's not just a fullback type and has tailback running abilities. He can also be used in tight end sets as he has good hands.

Rolly Lumbala, at 6'2, 241 pounds is a pure fullback type of running back who played his college football at Idaho. Lumbala was good enough to make it to the final cuts with the Miami Dolphins this season. Lumbala is more of a short yardage type runner and solid blocker who has made his mark on special teams mostly with our Leos.

I really believe that the Canadian talent we have at running back is unusal. All tailbacks, including import tailbacks out of U.S. colleges have to learn how to pass block in the CFL, learning how to pick up blitzes. If we used our Canadian running backs in specific roles our offence could take advantage of their talents.

The other key factor is what a Canadian backfied on offence would bring us...the ability to play someone like Hyland at safety or give us other options like integrating in an additional import receiver.

Lumbala
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
Anglophone
All Star
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:03 pm

Robertson's appeal, Buono says, is not strictly as a runner (6.2-yard average). He also caught 54 passes this year, and is an excellent blocker. In addition, he played hard for two seasons in Toronto in what were often hopeless situations. Robertson did not quit when others may have been so inclined.

Replacing Robertson is easier said than done, Buono suggests. Two aspiring feature backs, Jerome Messam and Jamall Lee, don't have a head for the game yet. "They're talented, but can they handle the cerebral part?" Buono asks. "Do they know where to go?"

Buono believes Robertson, who turns 34 in January, is as smart as anyone in the game.
Those passes were essentially runs, but it was a strategy that worked.
Post Reply