TEAM 1410: Lions new permanent radio home

[Lionheart]

Maybe I can ask a question and answer one at the same time.

As you rightly point out, sports fans aren't monochromatic, many like multiple sports. Now if you are indulging in that passion and can only listen to one station at a time, which station are you going to likely choose? 1040 or 1410? If you answer like most people will, that would be 1040 AM. Since 1040 has become even more Canucks centric, that is going to mean less Lions because CHUM has them on 1410. Advertisers won't be as interested in 1410 as much as 1040 and so how are Lions sponsors gonna feel about buying commercial time on lowly 1410? Probably not so good. Which station is going to reach the broader market, 1040 or 1410? Yep, 1040. Do I think that this will do the Lions in, nope but it sure doesn't help them secure their current market share or help them to increase it. It certainly gives the impression that they aren't important enough to warrant broadcast on 1040 whereas 1040 is still the "Home of the Seahawks". It sends a message that the Lions and the CFL aren't worthy of broadcast on the main sports station in this city. Invariably some people will choose to listen to that message and treat the whole CFL product with greater disdain.

Just a couple of questions, first what is a Lions sponsor as opposed to just a radio sponsor? I thinking advertisers are buying time on the radio for their audience and not just Lions listeners.

Second, how can we assume that when an advertiser signs on for space with the team they're not going to be played on both frequences? We know they're not competing stations and both are the same product of team sports.

Thirdly, why is it deemed that the 1410 frequency gets the less important shows? Monday night football was played there and I'm assuming MNF is a very big show.

[Belize City Lion]

Just a couple of questions, first what is a Lions sponsor as opposed to just a radio sponsor? I thinking advertisers are buying time on the radio for their audience and not just Lions listeners.

Second, how can we assume that when an advertiser signs on for space with the team they're not going to be played on both frequences? We know they're not competing stations and both are the same product of team sports.

Some advertisers do cherry pick where they want their ads to run. This is the most expensive way to buy radio but you know exactly where your ads are running and you can be pretty sure of exactly who your audience is.

Hoever, many advertisers buy a "run of schedule" package (ROS) which gives them so many spots in AM, so many in PM, so many on weekends and evenings, and possibly even so many spots in Lions or Canuck broadcasts. An ROS package is meant to deliver a specific GRP (gross rating points) which is determined by multiplying the reach (the number of individuals or households listening) by the frequency (the number of times those individuals or households hear the advertisement). The advertiser is buying GRPs and the radio station is responsible to deliver those. The radio station either runs the ad a lot on less popular shows, or less often on more popular shows. In the end as long as the client got the GRPs they paid for, all is good. The problem comes when stations under perform. Then they have to make up those GRPs by running bonus spots for free.

So what does all this have to do with the Lions games going onto TEAM 1410? Assuming Canuck games deliver a larger audience, and considering their schedule is much longer, if TEAM RADIO is to suffer any drop in ratings from moving either broadcast they would better off suffering that loss in their Lions broadcast because there would be less GRPs to make up. The other reason for the move is to put a solid "franchise" on 1410 in order to try to bring greater awareness to that service of TEAM RADIO. But using the Canucks to do that could be potentially very expensive for TEAM RADIO if they do suffer a drop in ratings as a result of shifting the broadcast to their alternate frequency.

I don't see this as any indicator or which team is more respected at TEAM RADIO, this is a business decision... plain and simple.

[Jim Mullin]

I think everyone in this thread is missing one of the points I was trying to make.

That is, what are the Lions getting in term of push from the FM stations in their cluster? That is where the football team can get a terrific opportunity to extend their brand to the casual fan and a younger demographic.

I don't listen to The Beat, but that frequency has huge potential to promote the team, in conjunction with what they do with core information on the AM side. QM is really driven by the female demos and isn't a good fit.

[LakeLions]

Interesting point, Jim. I never thought of that. But wouldn't QM be a decent option, given it's mom's listening and maybe looking for something to do with their kids?

[McLetchie]

I'm going to regret writing this because I usually do end up regretting anything I write on this site, but my back gets a bit rigid at some of the comments made.

I'm not really sure why people seem to think our stations will start simply forgetting about the Lions. If you've noticed, the move to 1410am has been made and was known about last week.

And this week, we've had Brent Johnson, Geroy Simon, Ricky Foley, Anton McKenzie, Wally Buono (twice), and George Chayka on. Each of those interviews was replayed at least once.

In a similar vein, Giulio has had a couple hits, and TSN's Glen Suitor, Chris Schultz, and Duane Forde have all joined the station.

Meanwhile our three shows have had plenty of discussion between the hosts about the Lions, with the exception of 11am-1:00pm, which is earmarked as the Canucks lunch.

We have updates twice an hour that have Lions news and notes in them. Our website has easy access to Lions stories and interviews, as does the Lions team page.

I'm pretty sure no other station in Vancouver has had coverage that extensive, and I'll leave it at that.

Iain

[Soundy]

Good attempt to inject some rationality into the discussion, McLetch... how's it feel to be ?

Unfortunately, I think some here won't be happy unless you dump any Canucks talk from the station entirely... and a couple would probably prefer that you had nothing BUT CFL coverage. Until you do that, you're just disrespecting the Lions, the League, and worst of all, Lionbackers.com

Personally, I admire your guts in stepping in here, and your dedication in keeping the site updated on upcoming Lions coverage. I don't think the team could hope for a better home than with you guys, regardless of which frequency carries the games!

[B.C.FAN]

I'm going to regret writing this because I usually do end up regretting anything I write on this site, but my back gets a bit rigid at some of the comments made.

I'm not really sure why people seem to think our stations will start simply forgetting about the Lions. If you've noticed, the move to 1410am has been made and was known about last week.

And this week, we've had Brent Johnson, Geroy Simon, Ricky Foley, Anton McKenzie, Wally Buono (twice), and George Chayka on. Each of those interviews was replayed at least once.

In a similar vein, Giulio has had a couple hits, and TSN's Glen Suitor, Chris Schultz, and Duane Forde have all joined the station.

Meanwhile our three shows have had plenty of discussion between the hosts about the Lions, with the exception of 11am-1:00pm, which is earmarked as the Canucks lunch.

We have updates twice an hour that have Lions news and notes in them. Our website has easy access to Lions stories and interviews, as does the Lions team page.

I'm pretty sure no other station in Vancouver has had coverage that extensive, and I'll leave it at that.

Iain

Your contributions are always welcome here, Iain. A question for you: Is it possible for Team1410 to pick up your sports updates on the hour or more frequently. I love the station but I'd like to hear some local sports news in addition to ESPN sports updates, which I also love.

[Sir Purrcival]

I'm going to regret writing this because I usually do end up regretting anything I write on this site, but my back gets a bit rigid at some of the comments made.

I'm not really sure why people seem to think our stations will start simply forgetting about the Lions. If you've noticed, the move to 1410am has been made and was known about last week.

And this week, we've had Brent Johnson, Geroy Simon, Ricky Foley, Anton McKenzie, Wally Buono (twice), and George Chayka on. Each of those interviews was replayed at least once.

In a similar vein, Giulio has had a couple hits, and TSN's Glen Suitor, Chris Schultz, and Duane Forde have all joined the station.

Meanwhile our three shows have had plenty of discussion between the hosts about the Lions, with the exception of 11am-1:00pm, which is earmarked as the Canucks lunch.

We have updates twice an hour that have Lions news and notes in them. Our website has easy access to Lions stories and interviews, as does the Lions team page.

I'm pretty sure no other station in Vancouver has had coverage that extensive, and I'll leave it at that.

Iain

Firstly, I hope you don't regret it. People here are interested in how these decisions get made and it is good of you to come on and address it. Concerns from a fan group who has just seen their games moved off the primary sports station in Vancouver to one whose last business model wasn't sustainable is completely natural. Part of those concerns stem from the fact that 1040 has been devoting more time and resources to the Lions in recent years. Anything that has the appearance of a reversal of that trend (whether fact or fiction) is going to raise questions, concerns and opinions. The fact that this change couldn't be made in the off season doesn't help. The hasty stroke is often misdirected and this looks quite sudden.

As to the amount of coverage. Is it more sensible to bring this up right now or simply wait and see what happens and then protest? Some prefer option A, some prefer option B. If you see a large truck coming down the road, does it make sense to wait till it is really close before deciding it might hit you or does it make more sense to move a little further out of the way early on as a preemptive measure? I mean if CHUM moves the game broadcasts today, what else might be changed tomorrow? I would much rather your awareness of fan base concern early on than the contrary.

Opinions are formed, reformed and even abandoned in the face of more information. Would you have addressed this here if no one had uttered a peep? Your own statements suggest not. The fact that this thread exists says that people are listening, are caring and in fact were pretty happy with Team1040 and their coverage of the Lions. If they weren't, no one would have uttered the aforementioned peep, they might even of been happy. And contrary to some suggestion (not yours) that people are being irrational, it is anything but. There are those who might think otherwise but that is their concern.

And to answer the question about why some might be uneasy about the memories of 1040 and the Lions. It maybe has something to do with the fact that when both Canucks and Lions happened to be playing on the same day, it was always the Lions that got moved. That despite the fact that the Canucks might be playing a relatively meaningless game, 2 weeks into the season and that the Lions might be playing in a game that would decide whether or not they make the playoffs. None of us are fools, we recognize that the Canucks are the big money franchise in this town and that CHUM exists to make money. However, that doesn't preclude us Lions fans from trying and struggling to make sure that the Lions get their due too.

[Soundy]

And to answer the question about why some might be uneasy about the memories of 1040 and the Lions. It maybe has something to do with the fact that when both Canucks and Lions happened to be playing on the same day, it was always the Lions that got moved.

Ah, but that's NOT a fact. There was even a thread last year crowing over the fact that the Lions had a game on 1040 while the overlapping Canucks game was on 1410: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16348

So, "always"? I think not. As I recall, it was determined that the contracts specified one team would get the shuffle one year, the other would get the shuffle alternating years. Eminently fair treatment, to my thinking... and something BOTH WOULD HAVE TO AGREE TO IN THEIR CONTRACTS. Despite claims here to the contrary, a game COULD NOT be just arbitrarily or randomly moved to another frequency: to do so would breach the contract that team has with the station. If the teams didn't consider the planned treatment fair, they wouldn't have signed the contracts in the first place.

[Sir Purrcival]

And to answer the question about why some might be uneasy about the memories of 1040 and the Lions. It maybe has something to do with the fact that when both Canucks and Lions happened to be playing on the same day, it was always the Lions that got moved.

Ah, but that's NOT a fact. There was even a thread last year crowing over the fact that the Lions had a game on 1040 while the overlapping Canucks game was on 1410: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16348

So, "always"? I think not. As I recall, it was determined that the contracts specified one team would get the shuffle one year, the other would get the shuffle alternating years. Eminently fair treatment, to my thinking... and something BOTH WOULD HAVE TO AGREE TO IN THEIR CONTRACTS. Despite claims here to the contrary, a game COULD NOT be just arbitrarily or randomly moved to another frequency: to do so would breach the contract that team has with the station. If the teams didn't consider the planned treatment fair, they wouldn't have signed the contracts in the first place.

OK, I stand corrected and apologize for that one game oversight. Sort of make you wonder why that one event was so noteworthy. Any other games over the years? You say it is contractual, if so, then it makes you wonder. Perhaps if someone has more specifics on how this works. As I posted earlier, more information goes a long way.

What was also apparent from that thread was that no one was much of CFUN listener and that its status in the Vancouver listening market was modest at best. Let's hope that it is only the game broadcasts that change frequencies

[Soundy]

And to answer the question about why some might be uneasy about the memories of 1040 and the Lions. It maybe has something to do with the fact that when both Canucks and Lions happened to be playing on the same day, it was always the Lions that got moved.

Ah, but that's NOT a fact. There was even a thread last year crowing over the fact that the Lions had a game on 1040 while the overlapping Canucks game was on 1410: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16348

So, "always"? I think not. As I recall, it was determined that the contracts specified one team would get the shuffle one year, the other would get the shuffle alternating years. Eminently fair treatment, to my thinking... and something BOTH WOULD HAVE TO AGREE TO IN THEIR CONTRACTS. Despite claims here to the contrary, a game COULD NOT be just arbitrarily or randomly moved to another frequency: to do so would breach the contract that team has with the station. If the teams didn't consider the planned treatment fair, they wouldn't have signed the contracts in the first place.

OK, I stand corrected and apologize for that one game oversight. Sort of make you wonder why that one event was so noteworthy.

1. Because overlapping games are rare anyway.
2. Because the pervading inferiority complex here MAKES it noteworthy.

Any other games over the years? You say it is contractual, if so, then it makes you wonder. Perhaps if someone has more specifics on how this works. As I posted earlier, more information goes a long way.

Perhaps someone would care to go back through both teams' broadcast schedules and see just how it's been handled?

What was also apparent from that thread was that no one was much of CFUN listener and that its status in the Vancouver listening market was modest at best.

Irrelevant. Really, it is. People who want to listen to the Lions game will listen to it wherever you find it. I'll ask you the same question that others have avoided: would YOU *not* listen to a Lions game because of what frequency it was on? Would YOU actually follow the line of thinking, "Hmmm, I wanted to listen to the game, but it's on 1410 instead of 1040, so I think I won't"? Do you honestly believe that *Lions fans* would TURN OFF the game because it's not on 1040?

Let's hope that it is only the game broadcasts that change frequencies

As opposed to what, the commercials?

Tell ya what, they're more than welcome to shuffle that Bodog "Flames" commercial over to Senile-650 or something...

[Solar Max]

Soundy, how can the Lions can GROW the brand with 1.0 share ?

I concede that even you or I can find CFUN on the dial, (even if I can't receive it here) but you continually ignore what others are pointing out here: we want the sport to get MORE exposure, not less. How does reaching less audience grow the brand?

You are protecting your Nuckies; we get that. Why can't you see that we like our Lions as much as you do your Nuckies?

As for Mr. McLetchie, I am sure you will continue to have great pre and post game shows if the Lions leave you. It worked for MOJO, I always listened to their pre and post game shows. No loss for team1040 whatsoever. They don't seem to want the Lions at the BIG table, so do the pre/post game on CFUN and have the PBP eslewhere; voila.

[Rammer]

Soundy, how can the Lions can GROW the brand with 1.0 share ?

I concede that even you or I can find CFUN on the dial, (even if I can't receive it here) but you continually ignore what others are pointing out here: we want the sport to get MORE exposure, not less. How does reaching less audience grow the brand?

You are protecting your Nuckies; we get that. Why can't you see that we like our Lions as much as you do your Nuckies?

As for Mr. McLetchie, I am sure you will continue to have great pre and post game shows if the Lions leave you. It worked for MOJO, I always listened to their pre and post game shows. No loss for team1040 whatsoever. They don't seem to want the Lions at the BIG table, so do the pre/post game on CFUN and have the PBP eslewhere; voila.

Does anyone recall what the TEAM ratings were prior to the Lions arrival, I seem to recall in that 1.0 share at that time. With the use of the American talk radio that seemed to hold on the TEAM 1040 prior to the great inception of using local coverage for their talk segments, you would expect the TEAM to have a good idea of what amount of a share they should grab.

[Soundy]

Soundy, how can the Lions can GROW the brand with 1.0 share ?

I concede that even you or I can find CFUN on the dial, (even if I can't receive it here) but you continually ignore what others are pointing out here: we want the sport to get MORE exposure, not less. How does reaching less audience grow the brand?

What "audience" are they reaching on 1040 that's going to "grow the brand"? People listening to 1040 ALREADY KNOW about the Lions, so how is that going to "grow the brand"? You're preaching to the choir there, how is that any better?

You are protecting your Nuckies; we get that. Why can't you see that we like our Lions as much as you do your Nuckies?

Umm... YOU'RE the one that keeps bringing up the Canucks. My issue has nothing to do with them and entirely to do with the persecution complex continually displayed here when it comes to the Lions' treatment in the media. It's illogical and irrational, and the constant whining about being disrespected and "treated as second-class citizens" *IS EXACTLY WHAT MAKES THE CFL LOOK SECOND-CLASS*. You talk about "perception" but it's this kind of mentality that GIVES the perception you're so worried about, that makes ALL Lions fans look bad... and AS A LIONS FAN, I have a problem with that!

[Sir Purrcival]

OK, I stand corrected and apologize for that one game oversight. Sort of make you wonder why that one event was so noteworthy.

1. Because overlapping games are rare anyway.
2. Because the pervading inferiority complex here MAKES it noteworthy.

Any other games over the years? You say it is contractual, if so, then it makes you wonder. Perhaps if someone has more specifics on how this works. As I posted earlier, more information goes a long way.

Perhaps someone would care to go back through both teams' broadcast schedules and see just how it's been handled?

What was also apparent from that thread was that no one was much of CFUN listener and that its status in the Vancouver listening market was modest at best.

Irrelevant. Really, it is. People who want to listen to the Lions game will listen to it wherever you find it. I'll ask you the same question that others have avoided: would YOU *not* listen to a Lions game because of what frequency it was on? Would YOU actually follow the line of thinking, "Hmmm, I wanted to listen to the game, but it's on 1410 instead of 1040, so I think I won't"? Do you honestly believe that *Lions fans* would TURN OFF the game because it's not on 1040?

Let's hope that it is only the game broadcasts that change frequencies

As opposed to what, the commercials?

Tell ya what, they're more than welcome to shuffle that Bodog "Flames" commercial over to Senile-650 or something...

1. Perhaps someone would care to go back but that isn't what I asked is it. Perhaps 1040 might just indicate how those decisions were made or maybe someone else knows.

2. Irrelevant to the hard core Lions fan, perhaps, what about the fringe listener? Football fans are nurtured, just like any fans. They aren't born that way. It is exposure and familiarity that increase the likelihood of becoming a fan. It is the listeners who tune into 1040 today (again the primary sports station) and pickup the broadcast of a game who may become the fan of tomorrow. That is the group you may loose. It isn't the hardcore fan, it is the fence sitter or the young up and comer. If I had a choice in the matter, I would prefer that we lose 3 hrs of Lions talk per week and keep the broadcast 1040 because that is really what it all comes down to. The game selling itself, not the talk during the week.

3. Oh lets say, maybe all Lions coverage including talk segments and what have you moving to 1410

4. Gracious of you to give them permission. Useless but gracious.