Leos/Stamps Post-Game Thoughts!!!!

[rb]

I'll admit that I was one of JJ's critics. I judged him a little too quickly.

One good thing about me, though, is that I don't continuously thereafter stick it in someone's face when he's wrong about something.

[Rammer]

Everyone settle down, that was a Stampeder D that isn't very good. JJ will have to perform much better if he is going to lead us to the promised land. While Burris makes them better the Nealy kid looks like a good prospect, he had enough wheels to escape pressure and on one throw that he was dropping back on he threw off balance across his body with velocity. If he can have time working with the first string receivers, I think he may be an interesting project. I liked his ability vs Akili Smiths at any rate.

[Gerry]

I'll admit that I was one of JJ's critics. I judged him a little too quickly.

One good thing about me, though, is that I don't continuously thereafter stick it in someone's face when he's wrong about something.

[Blitz]

I'll admit that I was one of JJ's critics. I judged him a little too quickly.

One good thing about me, though, is that I don't continuously thereafter stick it in someone's face when he's wrong about something.

I was mostly having fun rb.... but then again our B.C. Lions have to be accountable for their play on the field and as Lionbackers I believe we have to be accountable for what we say!

It's easy to rip someone! We all make mistakes but if we are held accountable for the critical things we say on Lionbackers it helps us to think twice first!

I expect to be held accountable for the things I write on Lionbackers. B.C. Fan, especially, makes sure that I am. I wouldn't want it any other way!

Right now he's holding my feet to the fire over my comments regarding Ty Williams earlier this season as he should! It's easy for me or anyone else to be critical! This is a website devoted to arm chair quarterbacks and we all have our different points of views at times. However, when we get it wrong we should also give credit to the player when it's due.

You just did and that's admirable!!

[Rammer]

Rammer wrote:

JJ will have to perform much better if he is going to lead us to the promised land...

Huh? He completed over 82% of his passes for 3 tds with 0 ints. You a tough taskmaster, papasan! Oh yeah, he did miss one receiver out his 30 pass attempts...ok, he's back on the trading block....

My assessment is not over one game, but is telling of the poor D that he faced, there are better in the league. If he is going to lead us to the promised land, he will have to up his game moreso. I still haven't seen the underneath touch passes being employed in his game, which is great that the OC has realized that they are JJ's weakness and have to be limited. However a good D will force this as an option just to test JJ. Also remember that we did not see much of a pass rush, I expect better as we move along.

That all said, the game accomplished the Lions to allow JJ to get more confidence in his game and most of his passes were on the money, something that hasn't been shown consistently for his previous games. Thankfully his strong arm has made it near impossible for DB's to pick it out of the air going towards the ball.

[Blitz]

My assessment is not over one game, but is telling of the poor D that he faced, there are better in the league. If he is going to lead us to the promised land, he will have to up his game moreso. I still haven't seen the underneath touch passes being employed in his game, which is great that the OC has realized that they are JJ's weakness and have to be limited. However a good D will force this as an option just to test JJ. Also remember that we did not see much of a pass rush, I expect better as we move along.

That all said, the game accomplished the Lions to allow JJ to get more confidence in his game and most of his passes were on the money, something that hasn't been shown consistently for his previous games. Thankfully his strong arm has made it near impossible for DB's to pick it out of the air going towards the ball

I agree Rammer but Jarious also had a hell of a second half against Regina. He led us on two drives at the end of that game that were over 75 yards long to lead us to the victory and then opened the game against Calgary with another two long drives for touchdowns. We haven't seen many long drives this season, except when Jarious has been playing quarterback.

I can understand the hesitancy, because Jarious does not have a lot of CFL experience yet and that will continue to be a factor. Buck has more than twice the games that Jarious has under his belt but Buck hasn't had a full seaon of games yet either. We will go into the playoffs with one of them and we will be led by a quarterback in the playoffs this year, whether it's Jarious or Buck, who has less than a full season of starts in his career.

However, I am feeling a double standard here!! When Buck led us to victories, when he replaced Dickenson, last season, there was a whole lot more cheering for his play than Jarious is getting. Jarious had a hell of a game against Calgary and I doubt that I would be reading similar comments about it only being the Calgary defense if it was Dickenson or Buck that had completed 83% of his passes out there.

Jarious will have challenges ahead..no question. However, I want to see him succeed as I will want Buck to succeed when he gets in there...which I am expected to see this Friday, if possible, against Winnipeg. However, I am not hoping for Jarious to fail so Buck can play...and I really like Buck Pierce.

Jarious said last night there are three quarterbacks on the Leos. They are all pulling for each other...even though each wants to play. I watched Dickenson and Jarious standing beside each other last night, smiling and enjoying a moment. Jarious said to Dickenson last night...you can practice all you want but a quarterback needs game reps. Jarious is playing extremely well, with those games reps. It's not as if our offence was dynamite before Jarious began starting.

The team has strongly supported Jarious and their comments about him...from Rob Murphy last game to all his receivers this game reflected not only their confidence in him but also a joy in his success. I take joy in his success, knowing that there could be tougher times down the road, as there always is for inexperienced quarterbacks but Jarious has climbed a high and challenging hill, in overcoming his nervousness and years of rust!!

Everyone on this Leos team recognizes that and how he has supported his teamates and always kept positive through frustrating times. It's looking more and more that we will not only have one of our two quarterbacks in Jarious or Buck, not only lacking experience, but also having never started a playoff game. In fact Buck is the only one of the two who has ever played in one and that was to hand off the football a couple of times and get sacked.

That will be a challenge that one or both will have to overcome...but those are the cards we face and the team will rally around them. Right now, based upon that inexperience they need as much support that they can get because confidence, rather than nerves, will be a big asset!!!

[Blitz]

Jarious said last night there are three quarterbacks on the Leos. They are all pulling for each other...even though each wants to play. I watched Dickenson and Jarious standing beside each other last night, smiling and enjoying a moment. Jarious said to Dickenson last night...you can practice all you want but a quarterback needs game reps. Jarious is playing extremely well, with those games reps. It's not as if our offence was dynamite before Jarious began starting.

Game reps are so critical to a quarterback, no matter how good he can look at practice. It's a major adjustment to game speed!

I was looking back at last season as Buck had to come in to be our starter. He was sacked 8 times in the Edmonton game, as he went to his first read and then tried to run. He also threw some interceptions early as he adjusted to be a starter. That's no knock on Buck who went on to have a successful season as Jarious is now. It just takes some time to be able to gain that experience and you have to play!

There are sure a lot of teams in the league that would be estatic to have their backup quarterback come in and play like Jarious has or Buck did last season. With Dave's injury situation at present we're very fortunate to have two quarterbacks like Jarious and Buck who can play so well with such little game experience in the CFL!!

[cromartie]

I still haven't seen the underneath touch passes being employed in his game, which is great that the OC has realized that they are JJ's weakness and have to be limited. However a good D will force this as an option just to test JJ. Also remember that we did not see much of a pass rush, I expect better as we move along.

Yes but, as far as that goes, here's what you're missing.

If I prove I can throw deep, you have to respect that, dropping guys back into two and three deep zone.

When you do that, it opens up the run game.

So you bring those guys back up to stop the run.....

And I go back to throwing deep against you.

This is predicated, of course, on the deep passing game working. Calgyra chose to stick with the "don't beat us deep" philosophy which gave the Lions plenty of chances to run and opened up JC on the underneath stuff.

It's when the deep passing game doesn't work that we run into problems.

I've grown to understand what's going on with JJ, and appreciate it on some level. I want to see how we manage the game in Winnipeg, because, in light of the QB injuries we're going to face the rest of the way, we may not have a really profound challenge until the WDF.

[Blitz]

Yes but, as far as that goes, here's what you're missing.

If I prove I can throw deep, you have to respect that, dropping guys back into two and three deep zone.

When you do that, it opens up the run game.

So you bring those guys back up to stop the run.....

And I go back to throwing deep against you.

This is predicated, of course, on the deep passing game working. Calgyra chose to stick with the "don't beat us deep" philosophy which gave the Lions plenty of chances to run and opened up JC on the underneath stuff.

It's when the deep passing game doesn't work that we run into problems.

Brilliant analysis cromartie!! In the CFL over the past few seasons passing attacks have focused on the underneath stuff too much. The argument has been that it's difficult to beat a zone deep. That's garbage but some have bought into it!!

If it was so easy to just drive down the field each time, running underneath patterns, every offence would be doing successfully every time. The fact is that when defenses aren't threatened deep they crowd the underneath stuff and that also helps them defend the running game. Even worse they can afford to blitz a lot and know that they can take that chance time and again if the offence only is throwing the 8-12 yard stuff.

The more passes you throw on a drive the greater the chance of a pass being knocked down, or just missing the connection, or giving up a sack, or throwing a bad pass due to pressure, or being intercepted.

The deep ball creates fear in defenses. It makes them worry about blitzing.. It forces pass defenders to give up more space, allowing easier cuts for receivers and makes pass defenders overfocus on the pass and therefore not be able to come up and play the run! If a quarterback can't throw the deep ball or is unwilling to, or is not accurate with it..defenses will play that tendancy!

Too many fans focus on pass completion averages or quarterback efficiency without recognizing that those are only a couple of tools to measure a quarterback's abilities. A quarterback who can bootleg forces the defensive ends wider and that opens up the inside running attack. A quarterback who can take off inside creates a spy or forces a defense to play it's linebackers more shallow, creating bigger seams in a zone.

A quarterback who throws deep really helps out the running attack as you mention as well as the intermediate passing attack. Defenses have gotten much better over the past three seasons, using extra defensive backs to play to cut in front of receivers routes, knowing they have a guy behind them to help out.

In the final analysis, a quarterback is judged by points on the board and it's often the subtle things that your message identifies that create success.

For example, if a fan only focused on Smart's runs on the option play last game they missed a lot of keys to the play. Jarious had to read the defense and determine whether to stick it into Smith's belly inside or to pull it out and continue down the line. However, what really made the option work were two things: 1) Jarious didn't continue laterally but stepped up towards the line, drawing the linebacker to him before the pitch and 2) the threat of the deep ball had the defensive backs playing off, allowing Smart to turn the corner.

The deep ball opens up the intermediate game and the running game. We could say the intermediate passing game opens up the deep ball but if you don't throw the deep ball that means nothing! Of course, the deeper you throw the football the chances are that a quarterback's completion average will be reduced. However, you also have the opportunity to make big plays!

I just read on here recently we need to work on our short stuff. Right now we don't need the short stuff very often because we can work the combination of the deep and intermediate game and the running game takes care of the short stuff. Nothing wrong with improving in that area but it certainly doesn't need to be a focus right now.

I've grown to understand what's going on with JJ, and appreciate it on some level

Wally understands what Jarious is doing to defenses. Lots of fans will believe Jarious had a great game because he completed over 80% of his passes against Calgary. However, Calgary was focused on not letting Jarious beat them deep (he managed to connect on some deep ones anyway including a 48 yarder to Boden) and Jarious worked the intermediate game more.

However, even though he didn't have a very good percentage completion average against Regina Jarious style of play was more of an advantage in that game than against Calgary. The reason is that the Riders defense always tries to jump the intermediate routes. Outside of last year's Western Final they have created hell for us over recent years, mostly because they have jumped and crowded our intermediate passing game. Jarious challenged them deep and that was a key to why we won!

In fact, the way to beat our defense is to challenge them deep, but rarely does any opposiiton offence attempt it.. because they are all stuck in the spread mentality!

The "I" formation also helps with deep ball completion. When you can run the football effectively, it forces the opposition defense to go with three linebackers often and only five defensive backs. That means an old traditional defensive backfield, with two corners, two halfbacks, and a safety. It opens us the seams and only the safety can provide double coverage. They also like to leave him in the middle of the field in that situation, opening up the deep zones to the outside!!

[cromartie]

The argument has been that it's difficult to beat a zone deep. That's garbage but some have bought into it!!

JJ notwithstanding, this argument isn't garbage. You have to understand that most of the QBs up here are up here because they have some sort of limitation to what they can do. Jackson and Bishop notwithstanding, that weakness is accuracy and consistency on Deep Out patterns and Go Routes. Either they can't throw it at all in a fundamentally sound way, or they have terrible accuracy on the throw most of the time. This league sees a lot more Marcus Crandells than Joe Paopaos (who threw a beautiful deep ball but was just so/so on intermediate routes).

So the intermediate game was designed to take advantage of the strengths of the majority of guys who play the QB position in the league. (Alternately, an option style offense also exists for this reason).

I will disagree with you only to the extent that JJ needs to be able to identify and hit whatever intermediate routes may be open at times. JC being open underneath because of how Calgyra chose to play us is a prime example of the types of routes that you can catch defenses on when they give the deep patterns too much respect. They will probably not be a primary focus to the offense again as long as JJ is running the show, but at times this offense will be put in a position to take what it's given, and those routes, especially if the deep game is clicking, are what they'll be given, by DCs that try to adjust anyway.

[Scottish Leos Fan]

JJ played a great game, he deserves the start against the Blue-Bombers. Joe Smith keeps on rolling!