New helmets and concussions

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:18 pm

With the latest info out about Barron Miles having suffered a concussion in the Calgary game I got to wondering.

Doesn't he wear one of the new helmets that are supposed to help reduce the probability of suffering a concussion?

Which also lead me to the question, doesn't DD wear the same new helmet that are supposed to reduce the probability of usffering a concussion?

So what is the probability that the only two players who have suffered a concussion (that we are aware of), are wearing the new helmets?

Are these new helmets that much better than the older ones that players like JC (who has taken and given some huge hits this year) use and have not seemed to have suffered a concussion despite taking the hits?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:48 pm

You have an interesting point LFITQ, in that if the question you are asking is one of "if these new helmets have been developed to cut down of the incidence of concussions, why then are there occasions rising and not falling as they should be?"

It is a valid question.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:57 pm

these new helmets are designed to help, but only when impact is on the top of the head, not sure how Miles was contacted but Dave's came from underneath not on top so its the chinstrap that was his sole protection, and with no neck gaurd for the snapping motion of his head, the helmet doesn't even play in.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:11 pm

wildthing wrote:these new helmets are designed to help, but only when impact is on the top of the head, not sure how Miles was contacted but Dave's came from underneath not on top so its the chinstrap that was his sole protection, and with no neck gaurd for the snapping motion of his head, the helmet doesn't even play in.

I would agree on that, and I don't think the hit to the chin did the damage, it was all on the whiplash and field contact on the backside of the helmet. When DD first got the concussion, he was kneed in the back of the helmet as well, pretty hard to prevent either situation with a helmet.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:28 pm

Rammer wrote:
wildthing wrote:these new helmets are designed to help, but only when impact is on the top of the head, not sure how Miles was contacted but Dave's came from underneath not on top so its the chinstrap that was his sole protection, and with no neck gaurd for the snapping motion of his head, the helmet doesn't even play in.
I would agree on that, and I don't think the hit to the chin did the damage, it was all on the whiplash and field contact on the backside of the helmet. When DD first got the concussion, he was kneed in the back of the helmet as well, pretty hard to prevent either situation with a helmet.

Well I have Carl Kidd's helmet in my office and it is of the new variety so tomorrow i will take a look and see if there is any noticeable difference in the helmet shell at different locales.

I'm not sure I buy the notion they are to help with impact to the top only as that is the first thing you teach kids in football is NOT to contact the top of their head as it can cause neck injuries. IIRC most concussions are caused with hits to the side or the back of the helmet and I thought these new ones were to be reinforced in those areas.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:32 pm

LFITQ wrote:With the latest info out about Barron Miles having suffered a concussion in the Calgary game I got to wondering.

Doesn't he wear one of the new helmets that are supposed to help reduce the probability of suffering a concussion?

Which also lead me to the question, doesn't DD wear the same new helmet that are supposed to reduce the probability of usffering a concussion?

So what is the probability that the only two players who have suffered a concussion (that we are aware of), are wearing the new helmets?

Are these new helmets that much better than the older ones that players like JC (who has taken and given some huge hits this year) use and have not seemed to have suffered a concussion despite taking the hits?

I didn't realize Miles had a concussion? I thought it was just his foot?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:36 pm

In the interview I heard it was also the foot.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:13 pm

Lowell Ullrich today said he had a mild concussion.

Lowell Ullrich wrote:the concussion suffered by the Lions' veteran safety against the Stamps on Aug. 17 wasn't enough to prevent Miles from returning to practice Monday in preparation for back-to-back contests against the Alouettes.

GM/coach Wally Buono and trainer Bill Reichelt confirmed that Miles
suffered the injury on the first Calgary pass completion of the
contest when he collided with Stamps receiver Nik Lewis.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:23 pm

lion24 wrote: I didn't realize Miles had a concussion? I thought it was just his foot?

Thats what I thought too. There were some good stories about it in todays Province. I was stunned to find out Miles played pretty much an entire game with it

I know football has the 'traditions' of toughing it out but these injuries only get worse.

pinkfreud · Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:34 pm

LFITQ wrote:I'm not sure I buy the notion they are to help with impact to the top only as that is the first thing you teach kids in football is NOT to contact the top of their head as it can cause neck injuries. IIRC most concussions are caused with hits to the side or the back of the helmet and I thought these new ones were to be reinforced in those areas.

One analysis of NFL game video of 174 severe impacts found that 123 (71%) were to the helmet shell and 51 (29%) were to the facemask. The majority of helmet impacts were above the head's centre of gravity. Of those, more impacts occured to the side of the head (72 cases) than the back of the head (36 cases). They also found that side impacts tended to come from the other player's helmet, whereas impacts to the back of the head tended to come from the ground. The majority of facemask impacts were below the head's centre of gravity. They tended to twist the head while accelerating it.

This study was done in 2003, so it was probably used to inform the engineering of the new helmets. Not sure how the research translated into design modifications, but this study suggested the facemask, chin strap, brow area, and side padding (for facemask impacts) and top of the back and sides (for helmet shell impacts) would be the targets for increased protection.

As far as the effectiveness to prevent concussion in Dave, how many had he had prior to using the new helmet? Maybe the repeat factor made him more susceptible?

Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:38 pm

pinkfreud wrote:
LFITQ wrote:I'm not sure I buy the notion they are to help with impact to the top only as that is the first thing you teach kids in football is NOT to contact the top of their head as it can cause neck injuries. IIRC most concussions are caused with hits to the side or the back of the helmet and I thought these new ones were to be reinforced in those areas.
One analysis of NFL game video of 174 severe impacts found that 123 (71%) were to the helmet shell and 51 (29%) were to the facemask. The majority of helmet impacts were above the head's centre of gravity. More impacts occured to the side of the head (72 cases) than the back of the head (36 cases). They also found that side impacts tended to come from the other player's helmet, whereas impacts to the back of the head tended to come from the ground. The majority of facemask impacts were below the head's centre of gravity. They tended to twist the head while accelerating it.

This study was done in 2003, so it was probably used to inform the engineering of the new helmets. Not sure how the research translated into design modifications, but this study suggested the facemask, chin strap, brow area, and side padding (for facemask impacts) and top of the back and sides (for helmet shell impacts) would be the targets for increased protection.

As far as the effectiveness to prevent concussion in Dave, how many had he had prior to using the new helmet? Maybe the repeat factor made him more susceptible?

Why is Robbie posting under the guise of pinkfreud??

Good post Susan; I think it has been said that after one concussion there is a better chance of repeat concussions occuring. I have never looked into any info on the newer helmets versus the old so I am not sure of the stats on each type.

pinkfreud · Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:21 pm

Sorry Shawn, I mean...

I personally believe that, heads in sports football people, such as the Iraq and other American countries, everywhere such as, I believe that it's hard on the head, and forces such as the peaches and pears and...the impact should be...the brain has always been...off to the side and backward and forward and...uh...it hurts and stuff and...we should help them for the future of all baseball players.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:19 pm

I personally believe that, heads in sports football people, such as the Iraq and other American countries, everywhere such as, I believe that it's hard on the head, and forces such as the peaches and pears and...the impact should be...the brain has always been...off to the side and backward and forward and...uh...it hurts and stuff and...we should help them for the future of all baseball players.

with that explanation you just won miss vancouver

(for those scratching your head - you must read the thread about miss teen us so. carolina to understand this last two posts)

Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:41 pm

pinkfreud wrote:Sorry Shawn, I mean...

I personally believe that, heads in sports football people, such as the Iraq and other American countries, everywhere such as, I believe that it's hard on the head, and forces such as the peaches and pears and...the impact should be...the brain has always been...off to the side and backward and forward and...uh...it hurts and stuff and...we should help them for the future of all baseball players.

Well done Susan!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: I was just noting all the percentages and stats in your post and it reminded me of Robbie!! I don't doubt for a minute you have the brains to go with your beauty

.........and stuff

New helmets and concussions

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