How bad does Wally want to move Jackson?

[Shi Zi Mi]

Ditto for Jarious Jackson.....well at least we have to forget about the 3rd and short plays....I have to say that I have never felt comfortable with the surge JJ gets on less than a yard to go. Last night he was officially stopped on two lunges, but got a poor spot on the first one. Even at that, the Lions should be blowing up the DL to earn more than just the bare minimum on those. All teams are going to be fired up when the Lions are in that position to stuff us.

Which o-linemen were in for the 3rd down sneaks?

[Blitz]

Which o-linemen were in for the 3rd down sneaks?
_________________
Lloyd

Excerpts from todays Province...

The best read of Jackson won't ever be accomplished until he plays substantial minutes with first-unit receivers.
"I looked around at one point and thought I'm the most veteran guy out here and I've played about 80 [career] snaps," observed sophomore lineman Dean Valli. The only receiver Jackson knew in the huddle instantly when he took over in the second quarter was Kendrick Jones.

Some guys are system guys. Some guys make plays. Spergon Wynn was very polished when everything looked good. With Casey [Printers], when it broke down he found a way to make a play. Jarious is still at the stage that when it's inside the system he goes well. Honestly, he's got it. It just wasn't able to come out [Friday]," Dickenson said.

He had to get a lot of [second-stringers] lined up sometimes," said co-offensive coordinator Steff Kruck.What I liked was we were two-and-out three times, and he got back out there and put the ball in the end zone," said guest coach John Hufnagel, whose work with the Lions is now done.
The best read of Jackson won't ever be accomplished until he plays substantial minutes with first-unit receivers. (end of excerpts)

************************************************************

I guess, ShiZiMi, going 19/27 for close to 200 yards, in a little over one half of play, with a constantly changing lineup of rookies and backups, isn't good enough! Of course Dickenson managed to throw for the same amount of yardage, playing the full game, in last year's Grey Cup game...and won the MPV award!

[LFITQ]

I guess, ShiZiMi, going 19/27 for close to 200 yards, in a little over one half of play, with a constantly changing lineup of rookies and backups, isn't good enough! Of course Dickenson managed to throw for the same amount of yardage, playing the full game, in last year's Grey Cup game...and won the MPV award!

Now you and I both know that is a completely unfair comparison.

JJ was going up against a pre-season team, and from what people are saying, many 3rd stringers and guys who won't make the team for the Riders. Granted he was also in the same boat with who he had to work with, but that only continues to increase the argument that comparing JJ's pre-season game to DD's game against the best team in the East with all of the marbles on the table is tantamount to comparing apples to oranges.

[Shi Zi Mi]

IMO, JJ's situation in a pre-season game is far more difficult than DD's in the GC.

DD knows his receivers and where they are going to be........he only has to make the correct read and deliver the ball to the proper spot. The defence may provide great coverage, but he will still complete passes.

JJ, OTOH, doesn't know that his receivers know where they are going, whether they read the DB's the same as he or if they know when to break routes off or come back to the football. It's all a big guessing game and he has to make a split second decision when and where to deliver the ball. A receiver could be covered by the worst DB in the league, but if JJ sees one thing and the receiver sees another, then it's going to be an incomplete pass or worse.

I've defended JJ on this board on many occasion........and quite frankly, I'd love to see him leave the Lions.......IMHO, there's too much talent being wasted.......as long as DD is the starting QB in BC, the offence will continue to be designed strictly to his skill set (and to a lesser extent Buck's).......this is not conducive to JJ becoming the best QB that he can be. Hopefully Buono can deal him sooner rather than later to a team that recognizes JJ's skill set and gives him the tools necessary for him to be successful.

[Rick James]

Ditto for Jarious Jackson.....well at least we have to forget about the 3rd and short plays....I have to say that I have never felt comfortable with the surge JJ gets on less than a yard to go. Last night he was officially stopped on two lunges, but got a poor spot on the first one. Even at that, the Lions should be blowing up the DL to earn more than just the bare minimum on those. All teams are going to be fired up when the Lions are in that position to stuff us.

Which o-linemen were in for the 3rd down sneaks?

Here's a pic of the line on the one we thought was a poor spot.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=2 ... =547650271

[Blitz]

JJ's pre-season game to DD's game against the best team in the East with all of the marbles on the table is tantamount to comparing apples to oranges.

Ypu're right LFITQ and I also knew it was comparing apples and oranges. In looking at each individual situation DD had the CFL's second best offence going against the CFL's sixth best defense in the Grey Cup game. Of course, there was additional pressure and defenses tend to play better iin the playoffs.

In JJ's situation he was going with second and third stingers shuffling into the lineup with a barebones offence against the Riders second and third stringers at a time of the season when defenses are even more ahead of offences. JJ, of course had pressure as did every player out there, because they are playing for jobs and their future career. It's a differnt kind of pressure.

However I made the comparison, even though they are very different situations, because it was also unfair for some to be so critical of JJ's performance in his exhibition outing and even when comparing 'apples and oranges" it adds a little context!

[Rammer]

JJ's pre-season game to DD's game against the best team in the East with all of the marbles on the table is tantamount to comparing apples to oranges.

Ypu're right LFITQ and I also knew it was comparing apples and oranges. In looking at each individual situation DD had the CFL's second best offence going against the CFL's sixth best defense in the Grey Cup game. Of course, there was additiona;l pressure and defenses tend to play better iin the playoffs.

In JJ's situation he was going with second an dthird stingers shuffling into the lineup with a barebones offence against the Riders second and third stringers at a time of the season when defenses are even more ahead of offences. JJ, of course had pressure as did every player out there, because they are playing for jobs and their future career. It's a differnt kind of pressure.

However I made the comparison, even though they are very different situations, because it was also unfair for some to be so critical of JJ's performance in his exhibition outing and even when comparing 'apples and oranges" it adds a little context!

ONe major difference on the flipside that isn't being noted, is that the Lions only played a conservative offense in order to win that game, whereas the preseason game was all about showcasing ability, with zero worry about outcome.

Anyways, for those who think that JJ did the Lions any favours here, he didn't. He basically showed that he isn't good enough to move up in the Lions order, and he is going to make it difficult to make anyone offer up in trade. Just look at how BP performs in our O, there is really no reason to pay for a QB who pales in coamparison, when you are attempting to catch up to the Lions. It is better to keep fishing for the next BP, than taking on a 30 year old QB that doesn't measure up.

[Blitz]

ONe major difference on the flipside that isn't being noted, is that the Lions only played a conservative offense in order to win that game, whereas the preseason game was all about showcasing ability, with zero worry about outcome

However, in exhibition play, teams don't like to show much of their regular season offence and they also need a very basic package. In the Leos exhibtion game against the Riders the Riders defence were looking at the same plays over and over again in the second half.

Anyways, for those who think that JJ did the Lions any favours here, he didn't. He basically showed that he isn't good enough to move up in the Lions order, and he is going to make it difficult to make anyone offer up in trade. Just look at how BP performs in our O, there is really no reason to pay for a QB who pales in coamparison, when you are attempting to catch up to the Lions. It is better to keep fishing for the next BP, than taking on a 30 year old QB that doesn't measure up.

You're absolutely confusing me Rammer! If Jarious Jackson wasn't here for the past two seasons we would have had someone different as our third string quarterback. We would have needed to pay the third string quarterback a salary similar to Jarious' salary, to fulfill that role. You can also bet that Wally would have some fourth string quarterback on the practice roster anyway. That third string quarterback, if he had moved up, would be taking Buck Pearce's spot right now and Buck would be number #3. If that #3 hadn't been able to move up then he would be difficult to trade for much, just like JJ right now.

Different teams look for different things for a backup quarterback. Last season Danny McMannus was preferred in one situation because he brought veteran experience. Not every team would be concerned with having a 30 year old backup..in fact some teams might prefer that over a young quarterback, depending on who they have as a starter. That 30 year old backup might not be Jarious but Jarious has at least five years play in him and most teams don't keep their quarterback longer than that.

The Leos haven't been looking for a quarterback to replace Buck Pearce. They've wanted depth at quarterback and almost everyone in the league believes the Leos three quarterbacks are better than any other teams top three and that our Leos have the best depth at quarterback in the league.

I agree that there is a time that, it makes sense to go with a younger quarterback that you want to develop in your system. The Leos want to go in this direction in the future, they'd like something for JJ in his option year, and they also want to give Jarious a better opportunity, somewhere else, due to his age.

However, we have an experienced veteran in Dickenson, a young protege in Pearce, and a quarterback somewhere in the middle in Jackson. We could go with Dickenson, Pearce, and Bell to start the season. I don't think, right now, that the second scenario makes us a better football team tomorrow. Better to let Bell learn our system, spend at least part of a season developing, and then make a move, unless we get an offer we really like.

What's the hurry to jettison Jackson tomorrow?

[Solar Max]

I understand Rammer's frustration with Jackson's failure to improve and move up to #2. It's natural to presume that with all the alhleticism that Jarious has, he would now be the backup behind Dickenson.

Trouble is that no one expected Pierce to be overlooked in the NFL draft, then do well in Portland, and then earn a spot in 2005. Even Rammer was somewhat surprised at Buck's making the team, as I recall. That messes Jarious' chances right up; then there's the fact that ( besides the Hamilton game last year) he hasn't really performed well overall. Fans like results.

I agree that Jackson's stock as trade bait is rapidly plummeting toward zero, though. It may be that he's worth more just being the #3 here than getting say, a 4th round pick and a pack of Timbits for him..

[maddeep73]

I agree that Jackson's stock as trade bait is rapidly plummeting toward zero, though. It may be that he's worth more just being the #3 here than getting say, a 4th round pick and a pack of Timbits for him..

Yup. Keep him for insurance this year... just make sure he works on his 1 yard plunge. Rather this than give him away.

[MacNews]

ONe major difference on the flipside that isn't being noted, is that the Lions only played a conservative offense in order to win that game, whereas the preseason game was all about showcasing ability, with zero worry about outcome.

Anyways, for those who think that JJ did the Lions any favours here, he didn't. He basically showed that he isn't good enough to move up in the Lions order, and he is going to make it difficult to make anyone offer up in trade.

I was surprised to read Beamish's article after the game. He seemed to be really selling Jackson's performance hard.

[Rammer]

ONe major difference on the flipside that isn't being noted, is that the Lions only played a conservative offense in order to win that game, whereas the preseason game was all about showcasing ability, with zero worry about outcome.

Anyways, for those who think that JJ did the Lions any favours here, he didn't. He basically showed that he isn't good enough to move up in the Lions order, and he is going to make it difficult to make anyone offer up in trade.

I was surprised to read Beamish's article after the game. He seemed to be really selling Jackson's performance hard.

Almost like the Lions had given him the heads up on wanting to see JJ get enough credit to move him, despite what Wally has suggested since. Don't get me wrong, JJ is as good a 3rd string QB that any CFL team has, he is just not showing enough to make other teams bite, knowing that he is well below DD And BP, who are running the team the rest are chasing presently.

[Blitz]

Almost like the Lions had given him the heads up on wanting to see JJ get enough credit to move him, despite what Wally has suggested since

I don't think what Mike Beamish writes would have any influence..zero...on any opposition coach who was considering a trade.

Beamish wrote:

"The exhibition was an early start to identifying emerging players who may be earning their way onto this year's elite roster, and a reiteration that third-string quarterback Jarious Jackson is no apprentice. Given a viable game opportunity, not just the usual spot appearance in garbage time, Jackson threw for almost 200 yards, using a receiving corps that mostly was lacking a veteran presence. He found Rodgers in the end zone on an 11-yard pass that was the Lions' only touchdown"

Sounds accurate to me!

[Shi Zi Mi]

Almost like the Lions had given him the heads up on wanting to see JJ get enough credit to move him, despite what Wally has suggested since

I don't think what Mike Beamish writes would have any influence..zero...on any opposition coach who was considering a trade.

Beamish wrote:

"The exhibition was an early start to identifying emerging players who may be earning their way onto this year's elite roster, and a reiteration that third-string quarterback Jarious Jackson is no apprentice. Given a viable game opportunity, not just the usual spot appearance in garbage time, Jackson threw for almost 200 yards, using a receiving corps that mostly was lacking a veteran presence. He found Rodgers in the end zone on an 11-yard pass that was the Lions' only touchdown"

Sounds accurate to me!

The difference is that Beamish doesn't have an agenda..........he didn't focus on 3rd down gambles that were botched because of a number of factors and try and blame it solely on the QB (even though one was a handoff to Smart).

It's funny when you focus solely on the bad things that happen, it is easy to condemn......for example, DD missed an open receiver for a TD in that game.......should the Lions be looking to replace him?