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Sir Purrcival
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Jason Jiménez wrote:
I don't disagree with you, however, education and healthcare are not enumerated anywhere in the US Constituion. None of the brilliant minds that congregated in Philadelphia could've have envisaged an era with HMO's, insurance companies, and rising costs of healthcare. The amendment process takes far too long to produce any real results which would allow citizens access to publically supported healthcare. Healthcare, imo, is tantamount to national security, which we're huge on. Everything we do these days is in the sacrosanct name of national security...

I'm a firm believer and proponent of Aristotle's belief that "the purpose of the state is to educate the people -- to make them virtuous. Virtue is the life principle of the state. The goal of the state is to educate with a view toward its own institutions (to preserve them) - political education of all citizens...[A]ll who have meditated on the art of governing mankind have been convinced that the fate of empires depends on the education of youth

The Founders believed in limited government and were weary of government intrusion in the lives of its citizens. Fast foward a few centuries and we see that the (US) government has developed a cancer, and a financial pesitience to the consternation of the taxpayer: bureaucracies. There are over 200 bureaucracies in the US government today, many of which are unaccountable to the People.
Sad but accurate. The real tragedy is that I don't think people are feeling any more secure now than they were after 9/11. After that terrible day, the US embarked on a disastrous course of spending both internationally and domestically in the name of security and that was bound to have impacts sooner or later. War's and such drive up the costs of resources, and although they stimulate economic activity in the short term are seldom conducive to long term financial well being. The crows have come home to roost and it is going to get much harder before it gets easier. Even if this bail out package goes through, a 700 billion dollar hit to government coffers is going to do little to help the overall situation if the basic habits don't change as well. The maxim is "Don't spend more than you've got". The US Gov. and Wall Street has been encouraging just that for some time. Their woes are our woes as well since so much of our fate depends on the overall health of the United States. Yet again the reason that this country should be working extra hard to diversify its customer base. It is never healthy to have too many eggs in one basket.

As far as Healthcare or any other contentious issue south of the border, the system seems very hamstrung in terms of accomplishing anything. Between all the high powered lobbies, regional differences etc, you have as much chance of getting health care as gun control. Some people think that the Canadian system is unwieldy but compared to our neighbours, it looks almost positively sensible.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
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Toppy Vann
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Jason Jiménez wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote:BCLions16- the $2 billion is the pure Iraq fighting costs as provided by the US gov't. Yes, there is more cost.

To the guy who dismissed the poor because there will always be some poor, that is true, but that doesn't diminish a nation's duty to provide education, health care and basics to its own folks first. Charity begins at home.

As to the US attacked themselves, that is not something that I suggested nor is that on any website I produced materials on.

I am far from a conspiracy theorist on any subject including that this was a fight for oil per se versus Bush's desire to topple a tyrant and do the job his daddy wisely chose not to attempt when he was President (because as his dad's book says - there was no exit strategy).

I don't disagree with you, however, education and healthcare are not enumerated anywhere in the US Constituion. None of the brilliant minds that congregated in Philadelphia could've have envisaged an era with HMO's, insurance companies, and rising costs of healthcare. The amendment process takes far too long to produce any real results which would allow citizens access to publically supported healthcare. Healthcare, imo, is tantamount to national security, which we're huge on. Everything we do these days is in the sacrosanct name of national security...

I'm a firm believer and proponent of Aristotle's belief that "the purpose of the state is to educate the people -- to make them virtuous. Virtue is the life principle of the state. The goal of the state is to educate with a view toward its own institutions (to preserve them) - political education of all citizens...[A]ll who have meditated on the art of governing mankind have been convinced that the fate of empires depends on the education of youth

The Founders believed in limited government and were weary of government intrusion in the lives of its citizens. Fast foward a few centuries and we see that the (US) government has developed a cancer, and a financial pesitience to the consternation of the taxpayer: bureaucracies. There are over 200 bureaucracies in the US government today, many of which are unaccountable to the People.
Jason is right that the US Constitution remains silent on the terms health and education.

I found an interesting quote in a book review on this: “The early American colonists viewed health as controlled by divine intervention. They believed it was a result of self-care and minimal government was expected."

The US is "a federal union of sovereign states" with a federal government that operates the union. Another bit of irony is the US drafts for the provisional Iraq constitution include the guaranty of health care.

States possess rights that are not specifically given the federal government like printing money and defense. The concept is state rights is sacrosanct in the US system much more than in ours where the federal government is much more active in education despite education being a power granted to the provinces. In the US there is no uniformn criminal code like in Canada with each state having its own laws and sanctions other than federal laws.

"State power concerning health care is termed police power. The state can use its power to protect the health, welfare and safety of its citizens…. " and it does with health boards, etc.

Some argue that the preamble to the US Constitution's mention statement that the federal government is to promote “the general welfare” gives the feds latitude to set up health care bodies which again conflicts with states rights.

Congressmen Pete Stark and Jesse Jackson Jr introduced a constitutional amendment on health care and Stark has this to say:

"An individual’s health is the key to their ability to achieve the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness that this nation was founded on. To ensure these rights are conferred, we must be certain that everyone – regardless of their income, race, education, or job status – can access health care of equal, high quality. Today, only prisoners in the US enjoy this right.
Other countries – both developed and undeveloped – recognize the importance of health care and have guaranteed the right to health care through their constitutions, including Afghanistan, the European Union, Iran, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Somali, and South Africa. Even the provisional constitution of Iraq – written in part by the current Bush Administration – guarantees health care as a right. It is shameful that the US, the shining example of prosperity and democracy throughout the world, still leaves so many people on their own when it comes to health care."

The impasse in the US is that most still view government interference in health care as socialism. The irony is that the $700 billion bail out (that is needed now) is socializing the losses while privatizing the profits as some suggest.

My apologies for not being as coherent in this - but it is Friday night in Hong Kong and I'm off to enjoy the evening in Lan Kwai Fong and get up early and see the Lions win which for will be Saturday at 10 am. Good luck Jason and BC!!!!
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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Luke
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Jason Jiménez wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote:BCLions16- the $2 billion is the pure Iraq fighting costs as provided by the US gov't. Yes, there is more cost.

To the guy who dismissed the poor because there will always be some poor, that is true, but that doesn't diminish a nation's duty to provide education, health care and basics to its own folks first. Charity begins at home.

As to the US attacked themselves, that is not something that I suggested nor is that on any website I produced materials on.

I am far from a conspiracy theorist on any subject including that this was a fight for oil per se versus Bush's desire to topple a tyrant and do the job his daddy wisely chose not to attempt when he was President (because as his dad's book says - there was no exit strategy).

I don't disagree with you, however, education and healthcare are not enumerated anywhere in the US Constituion. None of the brilliant minds that congregated in Philadelphia could've have envisaged an era with HMO's, insurance companies, and rising costs of healthcare. The amendment process takes far too long to produce any real results which would allow citizens access to publically supported healthcare. Healthcare, imo, is tantamount to national security, which we're huge on. Everything we do these days is in the sacrosanct name of national security...

I'm a firm believer and proponent of Aristotle's belief that "the purpose of the state is to educate the people -- to make them virtuous. Virtue is the life principle of the state. The goal of the state is to educate with a view toward its own institutions (to preserve them) - political education of all citizens...[A]ll who have meditated on the art of governing mankind have been convinced that the fate of empires depends on the education of youth

The Founders believed in limited government and were weary of government intrusion in the lives of its citizens. Fast foward a few centuries and we see that the (US) government has developed a cancer, and a financial pesitience to the consternation of the taxpayer: bureaucracies. There are over 200 bureaucracies in the US government today, many of which are unaccountable to the People.
Agreed. 100%.
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