2008 Canadian Federal Election Thread

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Who are you planning to vote for?

Stephen Harper (Conservative)
13
52%
Stephane Dion (Liberal)
5
20%
Gilles Duceppe (Bloc Quebecois)
0
No votes
Jack Layton (New Democrat)
7
28%
Elizabeth May (Green)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 25
MacNews
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crburrows wrote:Why is it that you are not required to be a citizen to vote in the candidate nomination meeting? At all other levels, you are required to be a citizen, but to nominate a candidate, you only need residency.
I will venture a guess and say it is because the respective parties hope to secure their support before they become citizens, so when they are a citizen they already know who to vote for.

However I think it ends up being abused by candidates signing up large numbers of Permanent Residents of the same ethnicity. For a good example look at the nomination of Chuck Cadman.
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crburrows
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ToppyVann wrote:While many don't like Jean Chretien, if you look at what happened on his watch as PM, the deficit went to surplus, the economy grew in leaps and bounds, and Canada was respected around the world except by George Bush who has little respect for those who don't like his jack boot techniques on countries he doesn't like.
I give Chretien little credit for "solving" the deficit, as he, with Trudeau and Turner created it in the 1970's and early 1980's.

The inaction of Mulroney and Wilson in the 1980's resulted in the Reform Party.

In the 1993 campaign, Chretien campaigned on having an annual deficit of 3% of the size of the economy. If this had happened, our national debt would be double its present figure.

Instead, the Mexican meltdown in 1994 frightened Chretien and Martin enough to whittle the deficit away.

The fact that the Liberals are able to credibly (in the media, anyway) claim that they did away with the deficit (which they themselves helped create) still makes my blood boil when I think of Mulroney, Wilson and Mazankowski - they were not Conservatives, they were Socialists (they were the ones who NATIONALIZED GULF OIL!!). These IDIOTS, with decent management, could have eliminated the annual deficit by 1990; instead, the morons ran it up as high as $43Billion.)

In addition, the economic growth of the 1990's was based, in no small part, on the dot com boom which abruptly ended near the end of 2000. I can find the exact date, as I was a shareholder of Microsoft at the time.

Finally, lucky for the Liberals that Ignatieff was not their leader at the time, because he had made it perfectly clear that he was in full support of the invasion of Iraq. Pity no mainstream media asks the question of him any more.
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KnowItAll wrote:Ideally for me, I would like to see party politics outlawed. I would like it to be manadatory that everyone runs as independant and provable collusion of any kind a serious crime.

I would also like a separate vote for country head of state.
On your first point, it will require a constitutional amendment to remove the protection against freedom of association. I am entirely in favour of this if it will mean the elimination of all labour unions.

On your second point, history can point to some elective monarchs - this might be worth a try.
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crburrows
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MacNews wrote:
crburrows wrote:Why is it that you are not required to be a citizen to vote in the candidate nomination meeting? At all other levels, you are required to be a citizen, but to nominate a candidate, you only need residency.
I will venture a guess and say it is because the respective parties hope to secure their support before they become citizens, so when they are a citizen they already know who to vote for.

However I think it ends up being abused by candidates signing up large numbers of Permanent Residents of the same ethnicity. For a good example look at the nomination of Chuck Cadman.
I regret not adding "should" to turn my question from rhetorical to practical.

Indeed, the rules are abused, and by those who have not made a full commitment to the country.

So, to go from asking the rhetorical to asking the practical, how can we best change the system so that ethnic mass-signup (or, for that matter, religious, or union or other forms of mass signup) is not made to abuse our party nomination processes?

I have made one suggestion, although I am sure it is too cumbersome to implement.
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Many Americans and likely several Canadians watched the US Presidential Election debate this evening. Having said that, do you intend to watch the 2008 English Canadian leaders debate on Thursday evening, Oct. 2? Will the debate sway your decision?
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你龍年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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whats in it for me
Every day that passes is one you can't get back
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I'm excited to see Dion in a nationally-televised debate, I bet Duceppe will speak better English than him.
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Robbie wrote:Many Americans and likely several Canadians watched the US Presidential Election debate this evening. Having said that, do you intend to watch the 2008 English Canadian leaders debate on Thursday evening, Oct. 2? Will the debate sway your decision?
I'm going to watch. I've made up my mind who I'm voting for, but it will be interesting to actually see how Dion does. He really hasn't had much of a chance to speak to Canadians nationally, and much of the option people have of him has been crafted by the Conservatives.
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bclions16
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KnowItAll wrote:whats in it for me
There has to be something in it for you? Participating in democracy should be enough. Yes its easy to be cynical about government these days, but apathy only makes things worse. People should be engaged, outraged, outspoken, supportive etc etc etc, but above all, CONNECTED when it comes to politics. If WE the citizens don't inject ourselves into the system of democracy, something else will fill the void.

Despite all our complaints (mind included) we have a spectacularly great country, but if all our politicians are crooks, and if we should all just cynically sit on the sidelines, how on earth did Canada turn out so well? It's because our flawed democracy, for the most part, reflects the will of the poeple.

My fear is that our democracy is weakening, and power is becoming too centralized. Now more than ever, people should demand a more accountable system of government. We have to be involved if we want things to get better.

(Sorry for the rant KnowItAll, I kind of got carried away)
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crburrows
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bclions16 wrote:
KnowItAll wrote:whats in it for me
There has to be something in it for you? Participating in democracy should be enough. Yes its easy to be cynical about government these days, but apathy only makes things worse. People should be engaged, outraged, outspoken, supportive etc etc etc, but above all, CONNECTED when it comes to politics. If WE the citizens don't inject ourselves into the system of democracy, something else will fill the void.

Nothing wrong with cynicism if you can reel it back to skepticism. If too many of us let it go out to apathy, though, then there's a problem that some even worse characters could take some control.

If you don't believe that your major party candidates will (i) do any good for you, or (ii) do what they say they will do once in office, then have a look at the smaller parties.

These folks have a strong belief that their fight is a good one - perhaps you share something in common with them. At the very least, when you vote for one of them, they end up with a couple more dollars to spend on the next campaign. (GO Libertarians!!! http://www.libertarian.ca )

And if you're really Really REALLY cynical, at least go out an vandalize some campaign signs. This is a society that we're living in, here, and, unless you're living alone on a mountain or in a cave all alone, destroying and vandalizing these signs could help you to rejoin common civil society.
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KnowItAll
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bclions16 wrote:
KnowItAll wrote:whats in it for me
There has to be something in it for you? Participating in democracy should be enough. Yes its easy to be cynical about government these days, but apathy only makes things worse. People should be engaged, outraged, outspoken, supportive etc etc etc, but above all, CONNECTED when it comes to politics. If WE the citizens don't inject ourselves into the system of democracy, something else will fill the void.

Despite all our complaints (mind included) we have a spectacularly great country, but if all our politicians are crooks, and if we should all just cynically sit on the sidelines, how on earth did Canada turn out so well? It's because our flawed democracy, for the most part, reflects the will of the poeple.

My fear is that our democracy is weakening, and power is becoming too centralized. Now more than ever, people should demand a more accountable system of government. We have to be involved if we want things to get better.

(Sorry for the rant KnowItAll, I kind of got carried away)
its not the govt I am being cynical agout. Whats in it for me is my statement regarding the average voter. People look for whats in it for me. They dont care about the big picture of whats best for the country as a whole, or what best in the long run. Instead, which ever party\canadidate promises 1 or more things that they will feel immediate gain from, gets their vote. For instance, someone paying 600 bucks amonth for prescriptions believes that this party will cut their cost to 200 bucks, then thats all that matters, who cares about anything else, or long term results.

Its like with crossborder shopping. Stort term gain on the cost of product. Who cares that its bad for economy, or that it could cost jobs down the road, etc.


In the end, its all about WHATS IN IT FOR ME.
Every day that passes is one you can't get back
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The average voter wants the politicians to do a better job, but the average voter should do a better job holding politicians accountable IN THE BIG PICTURE, rather than just wanting little treats handed to them.
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Robbie
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Did you watch the Canadian leaders debate last night and what did you think if you watched it?

Or did you suck up to America and watched the U.S. vice presidential debate instead? :no:
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你龍年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Robbie wrote:Did you watch the Canadian leaders debate last night and what did you think if you watched it?

Or did you suck up to America and watched the U.S. vice presidential debate instead? :no:
I flipped back and forth. I live in the US, so that's my excuse.

In the Canadian debate, talk about 4 on 1. I found it very frustrating that we have a five way debate, when really only three parties have any hope of winning, and that is being VERY generous to the NDP. Yes I'm all about democracy and believe in a multi-party system, but the average voter cant get much out of such a forum. Perhaps have an all party debate and a "contenders" debate as well? The minimum standard for participating should obviously be running candidates in something like 90% of ridings. Mathematically, one party participating last night cannot win, and I'm not talking about the Greens.

For the US debate I was pleasantly surprised. Palin did better than expectations, and Biden was a gentleman who made good points. Quite frankly, policies aside, it was a civil debate that provided more substance (I'm talking substance, not if you agree with it or not) than most debates I can recall.
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bclions16 wrote:Mathematically, one party participating last night cannot win, and I'm not talking about the Greens.
If you mean the Bloc, it is mathematically possible for Duceppe to win a minority government if they swept all or nearly all of Quebec's 75 ridings, and the other four leading parties split the remaining 308 – 75 = 233 or so seats evenly enough.

Possible, but by no means probable. :lol:
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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