Playoff Thread - Conference Finals

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

Post Reply
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:22 pm
Maas said after the game that he doesn’t regret his decision. At least he can spend the next 6 months thinking about it.
Said he had confidence in his defence to force a 2 and out. If so, why did he gambled on 3rd down on at least occasions earlier. No confidence in his defence at that point. Poor coaching decision, plain and simple.
User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8173
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG when not at BC Place, Grey Cup or Mazatlan.

JohnnyMusso wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:07 pm
As for the Grey Cup, since I was a kid, my father told me always root for the Western team and that will not change this time. I will be rooting for Calgary to win. Best team in the league this year. I do not see them losing again in the Grey Cup. Hope for a good game.
I used to subscribe to that theory too. Then I started thinking which teams did I want BC to beat more than anybody else in the CFL? The Stamps, Esks, Riders and Bombers (when they were in the West). I suddenly felt like the ultimate hypocrite wanting to pull for any West team in the Grey Cup not named BC Lions. Now I'm always pulling for BC or failing them making the GC whomever is coming from the East.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12579
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

I like an underdog. It was easy to cheer for Hamilton and Ottawa and their long-suffering fans in recent Grey Cups. The Argos are the ultimate underdogs in their own market, and Ricky Ray and Marc Trestman are nice guys who have earned my respect. An Argo Grey Cup victory would be good for the league.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Argos all the way for me. Ricky Ray. Marc Trestman. Even James Wilder seems easy to like as a player and personality.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

TheLionKing wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:29 pm
B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:22 pm
Maas said after the game that he doesn’t regret his decision. At least he can spend the next 6 months thinking about it.
Said he had confidence in his defence to force a 2 and out. If so, why did he gambled on 3rd down on at least occasions earlier. No confidence in his defence at that point. Poor coaching decision, plain and simple.
"Confidence in his defence to force 2 and out," says Maas. That is nonsense from Maas. He was down close to a score. If they miss, CGY is stuck deep in their own zone. He needed a TD. That was their shot at it. The FG did nothing. They still needed a TD. To give up the shot for nothing was stupid. He had a brain fart. He panicked.

So his "logic" says that the defence can stop CGY, and then EDM gets a shot at a TD. Well, they already had the shot, and Maas gave it away.

No surprise he won't admit that he messed up. His team knows. He should tell his team that he made a mistake, taking away their chance for victory. He seems to have a very thin coat on his self confidence. (Reminds me of a certain American politician we see too much of on the news.)

I have always heard that the pro (and college) coaches have a decision chart. What to do in situations. The decision he made would not be on his decision chart. LOL If they anticipated that situation the chart would say go for it, as it is your best chance for the needed TD. D'oh ...

With the decision chart you avoid panic in the heat of the moment. Here is what you do in this situation. One would think an assistant would tell Maas of his mistaken thinking, but one gets the impression the communication on the staff is faulty, as with his screaming at his assistant earlier this year.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Jason Maas the CFL version of Pete Carroll and Marshawn Lynch.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Hambone wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:11 pm
JohnnyMusso wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:07 pm
As for the Grey Cup, since I was a kid, my father told me always root for the Western team and that will not change this time. I will be rooting for Calgary to win. Best team in the league this year. I do not see them losing again in the Grey Cup. Hope for a good game.
I used to subscribe to that theory too. Then I started thinking which teams did I want BC to beat more than anybody else in the CFL? The Stamps, Esks, Riders and Bombers (when they were in the West). I suddenly felt like the ultimate hypocrite wanting to pull for any West team in the Grey Cup not named BC Lions. Now I'm always pulling for BC or failing them making the GC whomever is coming from the East.
I'm with you.
User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9789
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:56 pm
TheLionKing wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:29 pm
B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:22 pm
Maas said after the game that he doesn’t regret his decision. At least he can spend the next 6 months thinking about it.
Said he had confidence in his defence to force a 2 and out. If so, why did he gambled on 3rd down on at least occasions earlier. No confidence in his defence at that point. Poor coaching decision, plain and simple.
"Confidence in his defence to force 2 and out," says Maas. That is nonsense from Maas. He was down close to a score. If they miss, CGY is stuck deep in their own zone. He needed a TD. That was their shot at it. The FG did nothing. They still needed a TD. To give up the shot for nothing was stupid. He had a brain fart. He panicked.

So his "logic" says that the defence can stop CGY, and then EDM gets a shot at a TD. Well, they already had the shot, and Maas gave it away.

No surprise he won't admit that he messed up. His team knows. He should tell his team that he made a mistake, taking away their chance for victory. He seems to have a very thin coat on his self confidence. (Reminds me of a certain American politician we see too much of on the news.)

I have always heard that the pro (and college) coaches have a decision chart. What to do in situations. The decision he made would not be on his decision chart. LOL If they anticipated that situation the chart would say go for it, as it is your best chance for the needed TD. D'oh ...

With the decision chart you avoid panic in the heat of the moment. Here is what you do in this situation. One would think an assistant would tell Maas of his mistaken thinking, but one gets the impression the communication on the staff is faulty, as with his screaming at his assistant earlier this year.

Just IMO ...
I think he's been much calmer these past two games. Someone must have spoken to him.

Reilly won't second guess the call as he was asked on it post game.

He messed up. I was thinking - only if Esks scored would he try to win it with a 2 pt convert as the wind was bad and Whyte missed two FGs.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
User avatar
KnowItAll
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7458
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:32 pm
Location: Delta

I wanted to be cheering for Reilly, or otherwise, Glenn.

As it is, I will be watching NFL, next week.

First GC I will miss in 52 years.

Most of the time from 66 - 89, I always cheered west except for the last couple of times that ED won their 5 in a row.

Last year I cheered for Ottawa. In 91,96, and 97 I cheered for Toronto. Cheered for Ham when they Beat Ed in 86. Cheered to Toronto when they lost to ED in 87. Often this century, I have cheered for Tor and HAM to beat ED or Cal. Same with WPG when they represented the east.

Now, after the Lions, I just root for the teams according to how many players I like on them. Except for montreal. They I always root against
Every day that passes is one you can't get back
User avatar
Sir Purrcival
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4621
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2003 11:48 am
Location: Comox Valley

On the brighter side of things, at least we had two pretty interesting games that came down to the final minute to decide. I hope that the GC will provide as good entertainment. We have two major story lines, one team gets a chance to make up for losing out last year, the other has the aging, venerable player looking for perhaps one more shot at the gold ring before maybe closing the door on a magnificent career. Hope it lives up to the billing. I don't mind which team wins at this point. I believe Calgary will ultimately triumph. They have a chip on their shoulder from last year and they aren't going to be willing to walk away empty handed again. And basically, they have the better team. They should win based on that alone but there is a reason they play the games. If any team from the east has a shot, it is a Ricky Ray QB'd team.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:56 pm
TheLionKing wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:29 pm
B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:22 pm
Maas said after the game that he doesn’t regret his decision. At least he can spend the next 6 months thinking about it.
Said he had confidence in his defence to force a 2 and out. If so, why did he gambled on 3rd down on at least occasions earlier. No confidence in his defence at that point. Poor coaching decision, plain and simple.
"Confidence in his defence to force 2 and out," says Maas. That is nonsense from Maas. He was down close to a score. If they miss, CGY is stuck deep in their own zone. He needed a TD. That was their shot at it. The FG did nothing. They still needed a TD. To give up the shot for nothing was stupid. He had a brain fart. He panicked.

So his "logic" says that the defence can stop CGY, and then EDM gets a shot at a TD. Well, they already had the shot, and Maas gave it away.

No surprise he won't admit that he messed up. His team knows. He should tell his team that he made a mistake, taking away their chance for victory. He seems to have a very thin coat on his self confidence. (Reminds me of a certain American politician we see too much of on the news.)

I have always heard that the pro (and college) coaches have a decision chart. What to do in situations. The decision he made would not be on his decision chart. LOL If they anticipated that situation the chart would say go for it, as it is your best chance for the needed TD. D'oh ...

With the decision chart you avoid panic in the heat of the moment. Here is what you do in this situation. One would think an assistant would tell Maas of his mistaken thinking, but one gets the impression the communication on the staff is faulty, as with his screaming at his assistant earlier this year.

Just IMO ...
Its always interesting to read what players usually say after a major coaching screwup. Mike Reilly dodged the question of Maas call to kick the field goal by saying "I put faith in our coaching staff to make the right decisions. I would never question that".

Vidal Hazelton said after the game "Me personally I'd have liked to go for it. But I believe in our coaching staff. And whatever call they make, we're going to run with it".

In other words, players usually see their role as 'executing' whatever call the coach makes to the best of their ability.

Before questioning Maas call, the reality is that Buono would never have gambled on third and 10 in the first place earlier in the drive. Earlier in the game, when Maas gambled three times, including one that was a third and almost two, in Edmonton's own end.

But pressure can do weird things to a coach. Mass panicked on the call, fear took over, and his thinking got distorted.

However, what bothers me more (I was pulling for Edmonton and especially Mike Reilly) is Maas response to the call. Rather than saying that in hindsight, he would have gambled, he comes up with some b.s. that he had faith in his team.

If Maas had faith in his team, and especially his offence, he would have gambled inside the red zone. It was the only call to make. Asking his defence, which had not stopped the run all day, to hold Calgary to a two and out, and drive the length of the field with less than a minute left to win the game was not playing the odds at all.

If he truly had faith in his team, he would have gambled on third and less than five. Had Edmonton scored the touchdown and the convert, they still would have had a chance to stop Calgary's offence and take a last shot at a win. Or they could have scored a touchdown in the red zone and then Maas could have put faith in his defense and offence to win the game in overtime.

There is no calculation, strategy or analysis of the situation that could possibly justify Maas call to go for the field goal. Maas took the football out of the hands of Reilly, who will probably win the MOP, and was on the verge of bringing the Eskimos back with an impressive drive.

You also don't put this situation on your defense. Benevedes runs a vanilla defense with a four man rush and vanilla zone. If they did not have such a great defensive line they would be easily dissected by opposing teams. Calgary has had more trouble with their passing game this season as Bo Levi has not had a great season. Benevedes showed no ability to adapt to stop the Calgary running attack all game so why think they could at that point in the game.

I think we learned something about Jason Maas. He took a chance early in the game with a third down gamble in his own end of the field. But when the chips were down near the end of the game, fear ruled his thinking and fear distorted this thinking. But then again, fear nearly always rules Buono's thinking. But what we also learned about Jason Maas is that he is also full of b.s. and is not someone who takes responsibility just like Buono.

A coach I admire for taking responsibility is the Bombers Mike O'Shea. He took responsibility for his special teams call in the West Semi-Final.

For Maas to weasel out by saying he had faith in his players is despicable. You go for the third down call, that deep in Calgary territory, to attempt to tie the game, especially with the time that was left on the clock. Then you go for victory. There was no other call to make and no way to justify any other call.

Congrats to the Stamps for another berth to the Grey Cup game. Also congrats to the Toronto Argos and Mark Trestman. You took on an incredible challenge and rebuilt a team in one season, dealt with every type of obstacle in doing so, and are playing in the Big Dance. Wish you were coaching our Lions. This season, our coach took a very talented team and turned it into a disaster.

Congrats to Chris Jones too. In only your second season, you have completely rebuilt a team that needed to be rebuilt and you were only one play away (a successful third down and long gamble by Toronto late in the game) from a Grey Cup berth.

While I would have loved an Edmonton Saskatchewan Grey Cup I look forward to the game and the chance that Toronto can upset Calgary in the Big Dance.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
David
Team Captain
Posts: 9364
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:23 am
Location: Vancouver (Kitsilano)

B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:42 pm
B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:35 pm
Strange call by Maas to go for the field goal on third and 4 from the 13 yard line with 1:48 left. 32-28 Calgary.
Coaching blunder of the year.
Easily. The only thing I can think of is that in the excitement, he didn't do the math right. Must have thought he was down by 6 not 7. That is the only logical explanation. Everything else to justify it just makes him look even more foolish. The decision is indefensible. Period.

Oh well. More material to talk about with his shrink, I suppose. This was a case of schadenfreude for me. Maas and his hot-tempered ways was the reason I was cheering (and I use that term loosely) for Calgary in the first place. :popcorn:


DH :cool:
Roar, You Lions, Roar
User avatar
Robbie
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8380
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:13 pm
Location: 卑詩體育館或羅渣士體育館

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:57 pm
Robbie wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:53 pm
Stampeders coach Dave Dickenson lifted the west division championship trophy, but when offered to his players they all declined it. Let's see in seven days if that's a good omen since the Argonauts players did lift their trophy.
Bo wanted nothing to do with that trophy. LOL
But Bo Levi Mitchell, Rene Paredes, Josh Bell, and Rob Cote were willing to stand behind the trophy for a picture.

Image
While the Argonauts hoisted it and paraded around it. I guess after a five year Grey Cup drought appearance made them hungry again. Whereas for the Stampeders, winning the west 3 out of the last 4 seasons made it a no big deal. And if you look carefully at the bottom row of the trophy, 2017 Calgary Stampeders has already been inscribed.

Image
As indicated, I wouldn't have minded if the Roughriders stole this trophy.

Aside from being a rematch of the 2012 Grey Cup, it will also be a rematch of the memorable 1991 and 1971 Grey Cups.
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你龍年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
User avatar
CardiacKid
Legend
Posts: 1949
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:46 am
Location: Under Christmas Hill, Saanich

David wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:53 am
B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:42 pm
B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:35 pm
Strange call by Maas to go for the field goal on third and 4 from the 13 yard line with 1:48 left. 32-28 Calgary.
Coaching blunder of the year.
Easily. The only thing I can think of is that in the excitement, he didn't do the math right. Must have thought he was down by 6 not 7. That is the only logical explanation. Everything else to justify it just makes him look even more foolish. The decision is indefensible. Period.

Oh well. More material to talk about with his shrink, I suppose. This was a case of schadenfreude for me. Maas and his hot-tempered ways was the reason I was cheering (and I use that term loosely) for Calgary in the first place. :popcorn:


DH :cool:
Maas' hot-tempered ways had him tipped (in my mind anyways) to be the next Kent Austin. Beaking off at his assistants until they leave for greener pastures (a la Orlando Steinhauer) or needing to be anywhere but Hamilton (Tommy Condell). When those assistants weren't around to take verbal abuse, the players would get it and eventually tune him out. Seems like a possible recipe for Maas.

I suspect Sutherland is going to be taking the temperature of his players and coaching staff after this really dubious coaching decision.
VictoriaFan
Starter
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:10 pm

have to say I used to root for Sask. but Duron Carter has put a sour green taste in my mouth
Post Reply