Football Operations: GM Ed Hervey, HC Wally Buono and the Coaching Staff

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maxlion
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:30 am
The Big Three return: Wally, Mark and Dan.
Interesting choice for a "big three" (only one of which has been confirmed as returning, incidentally). I would put the GM above the offensive line coach in terms of overall impact (not to diminish the importance of the offensive line).
JohnnyMusso
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Mark W could be gone too if he gets the Montreal gig and he is one of the frontrunners, if not the leading candidate now.
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WestCoastJoe
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maxlion wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:48 am
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:30 am
The Big Three return: Wally, Mark and Dan.
Interesting choice for a "big three" (only one of which has been confirmed as returning, incidentally). I would put the GM above the offensive line coach in terms of overall impact (not to diminish the importance of the offensive line).
Hmmmm ... Not thinking of chain of command. More like survivors. And Wally is number one in that category.

If the other two get the heave ho, some fans can celebrate a bit.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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Dusty
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I'm thinking that the changes to date are a positive step forward, tempered somewhat by the continuing uncertainty around Washingtons role with the Lions. Although I would be happier to see Dorazio gone, I think that he will be certainly under the microscope with Hervey's statements regarding better protection of the QB.

I think there are enough changes on the coaching ranks for Hervey to start to put his stamp on the team. I'm looking forward to who he is going to bring in.... I do think that Hervey will have some influence on the position coaching and OC roles.
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Sir Purrcival
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Hambone wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:28 pm
JohnnyMusso wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:26 am
Like to see Jeff Garcia as the new OC. Doubt it will happen though.
I hope it doesn't happen. The guy has next to zero coaching experience, He spent about 10 weeks with Montreal in 2014 as a "consultant" and QB Coach and 1 year as an "offensive assistant" with the Rams in 2015. That's his entire career coaching resume. He's not been on any pro or college coaching staff since the Rams in the past 2 years.
A purrfect situation with which to evaluate him for a season. If we are going to work with a bunch of temporary hires pending a new HC, then maybe conventional wisdom can be set aside in favour of trying out the unusual in what is going to be an experimental season anyway. There no guarantee that any coach on this team survives a new head coach/owner. Chances are that you are going to have trouble hiring more established, seasoned coaches in such a scenario in any case. Hell, maybe they could have Dunnigan come in as an OC for a season. He might be interested in that as a bit of a lark.
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SammyGreene
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So Blake Nill lures Ti-Cats offensive coordinator and former McMaster head coach Stefan Ptaszek to the west coast to become UBC's new OC. I wonder if the Lions can do better?

http://3downnation.com/2017/12/09/west- ... ob-at-ubc/

As suggested by others, unless the Lions are looking for temporary hires — such as a Doug Berry type — to match Wally's departure then Hervey has to be involved in the hiring process and looking beyond 2018.
If Washington is headed to Montreal either new OC or DC could be hired to also succeed Wally in 2019. It's the best carrot the Lions can dangle.
All we have to do is go back to the end of 2015 season and Wally announcing he was returning as head coach yet his 2 first choices to be his OC — LaPolice and Jarious — said no thanks so he promoted Jones instead. Can't see anything improving 2 years later.
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WestCoastJoe
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SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:06 am
So Blake Nill lures Ti-Cats offensive coordinator and former McMaster head coach Stefan Ptaszek to the west coast to become UBC's new OC. I wonder if the Lions can do better?

http://3downnation.com/2017/12/09/west- ... ob-at-ubc/

As suggested by others, unless the Lions are looking for temporary hires — such as a Doug Berry type — to match Wally's departure then Hervey has to be involved in the hiring process and looking beyond 2018.
If Washington is headed to Montreal either new OC or DC could be hired to also succeed Wally in 2019. It's the best carrot the Lions can dangle.
All we have to do is go back to the end of 2015 season and Wally announcing he was returning as head coach yet his 2 first choices to be his OC — LaPolice and Jarious — said no thanks so he promoted Jones instead. Can't see anything improving 2 years later.
Interesting, Sammy. At times, I have wondered about Blake Nill being a Head Coach in the CFL. Bring 'em both in next year.

2017-12-11_0718.png
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John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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WestCoastJoe
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Ptasczek ...

2017-12-11_0723.png
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John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Hambone
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:16 am
Interesting, Sammy. At times, I have wondered about Blake Nill being a Head Coach in the CFL. Bring 'em both in next year.
Personally if there's one thing that scares me as much as anything it's when a long time collegiate coach takes a pro head coaching job be it in football, hockey or basketball. There are a few exceptions such as Jimmy Johnson. Switzer did OK riding on the coat-tails and an uber-talented club Johnson left behind before things tailed off and he was gone, Others like Pete Carroll had 15 years of NFL coaching under his belt before his USC run. Most though don't. Dennis Erickson failed. Nick Saban struggled and was back to college after 2 years. Lou Holtz was a disaster in his 1 year with the Jets. Greg Marshall looked decent in his first year at 9-8-1 then went 5-17 before being let go early in his 3rd season. We all know about Tedford who had a cup of coffee as an assistant under Wally. 23 years of NCAA coaching between CFL stints was too much to overcome. Before somebody like Nill gets the big job I'd want to see him spend a couple seasons getting accustomed to the pro game as an assistant. As "Tuna" Bill Parcells once said when coaching in college you get to play dictator. It doesn't work that way in the pro ranks. I think where many former collegiate coaches struggle it's in adjusting to the entirely different landscape of coaching highly paid men with their own ideas and objectives versus kids just happy to be there.
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The 2018 season is all about Wally and his desire to retire as Head Coach following a successful season. There is no long term plan.

Wally remains VP and with no President, Buono remains 'top dog' and keeps the big office. Toppy Vann hit the nail on the head that Hervey was mostly hired to bring in talent and help him to assess the situation. Mainly Hervey was brought in so that Buono can 'win now' in 2018.

If the 2018 year had not been Wally's last year as a HC Hervey would never have been hired. If Buono had wanted to remain as Head Coach for the long term but give up the GM job, Hervey would never have been hired. Buono hired Hervey rarther than someone inside the Leos organization for the GM job for one simple reason. Hervey gave Buono the best opportunity to 'win now' and 'win now' is what its about for Buono is his last year. Its all about his legacy and his ego.

Buono has protected his two most loyal desciples - Dan Dorazio and Mark Washington, along with himself for 2018. I knew Dorazio, who has been with Buono almost forever, even though Dorazio's offensive line gave up the most sacks this season, would be back for 2018.

I said, when Dorazio was rehired by Buono last season, it would not take him long to wreck the offensive line and he did. Malone's great work was ruined after one season with Dorazio at the helm of the offensive line.

Mark Washington, another Buono disciple, could get the job in Montreal, now that Claybrooks has pulled out (and wisely - who would want to work for Kavis Reed in Montreal? Only someone desperate for a HC gig.

Washington played for Buono and both he and Dorazio share the same life philosophy (read into that what I hope you do)

Khari Jones did not have the same history with Buono.

Hervey and Buono will try to load up this team for one final season for Buono. There will likely be a lot of improvement for 2018. The talent was mostly there for 2017. It was a blown season mostly caused by our coaching staff this past season.

There will be decisions made for 2008 that will likely hurt the team in 2019 but it will be about winning now in 2018, no matter what the later consequences are.

For Buono, it will be 'its all about me' for 2018 and dam the future.

My best guess, in terms of Marcel Bellefeuille is that Buono is just making sure he has someone on staff with OC experience, just in case they are not able to hire one of their desired OC candidates.

But whomever becomes the OC, unless Hervey can convince Wally to give up his old '90's Calgary spread offence it will be more of the same. It won't matter who the OC is. The only difference between Chapdelaine, Dorazio, Jones, Cortez, and Jones again as our OC's was that they were just putting on a slightly different lipstick on the same pig.
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The_Pauser
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I disagree. I think Buono really did want to retire, but Hervey coming to a team that has an absentee owner, no president, and then no head coach, that's not a good situation to be taking over. You basically have nothing. Who do you go to for approvals? If Braley isn't reachable, who else is there? Especially with Buono needing back surgery this winter, do you really think someone his age really wanted to continue for another year? Having talked with him at last year's training camp I was convinced he was done at the end of the season. However, given the lack of a new owner I truly believe that Hervey did want Buono back, and ultimately it's probably what's best for the team. This is Wally telling Braley that he has one year to sell the team, and beyond that he's no longer going to be bailing him out.
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The_Pauser
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Ed Hervey has hired Torey Hunter as Director of Player Personnel and Development.

Neil McEvoy, Geroy Simon, and Ryan Rigmaiden also retain their current positions. Geroy now also adds CFL Draft Coordinator to his portfolio.
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B.C.FAN
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SammyGreene wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:06 am
So Blake Nill lures Ti-Cats offensive coordinator and former McMaster head coach Stefan Ptaszek to the west coast to become UBC's new OC. I wonder if the Lions can do better?

http://3downnation.com/2017/12/09/west- ... ob-at-ubc/

As suggested by others, unless the Lions are looking for temporary hires — such as a Doug Berry type — to match Wally's departure then Hervey has to be involved in the hiring process and looking beyond 2018.
If Washington is headed to Montreal either new OC or DC could be hired to also succeed Wally in 2019. It's the best carrot the Lions can dangle.
All we have to do is go back to the end of 2015 season and Wally announcing he was returning as head coach yet his 2 first choices to be his OC — LaPolice and Jarious — said no thanks so he promoted Jones instead. Can't see anything improving 2 years later.
In Ptaszek's case, he was looking to step back and spend more time with his family. Nill offered him a chance to be a part-time coach and spend the offseason at home in Ontario. It's somewhat similar to the case of Bryan Chiu, who will probably end up working in Montreal because that's where his wife and kids are, and he wants to spend more time with them.

The Lions have treated their defensive line coach as a part-time position in the past, including in 2010 when Wally coached Rich Stubler to get back into coaching a couple years after he was fired in Toronto. The OC and most other CFL assistant coaching positions, though, are full-time jobs.
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David
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The_Pauser wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:55 am
Ed Hervey has hired Torey Hunter as Director of Player Personnel and Development.

Neil McEvoy, Geroy Simon, and Ryan Rigmaiden also retain their current positions. Geroy now also adds CFL Draft Coordinator to his portfolio.
This is a huge move. We've taken a guy who has all of those great contacts away from a division rival. Plus we've kept McAvoy, Simon, and Rigmaiden - so no disruption. I am assuming Hunter was responsible for finding at least some (most?) of the Eskimos huge talent pool.

You know, we can criticize Braley for being cheap and all and not hiring a President, BUT clearly here he has added to the front office head count to make the club stronger. Credit where it's due. :thup:


DH :cool:
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WestCoastJoe
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Hambone wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:33 am
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:16 am
Interesting, Sammy. At times, I have wondered about Blake Nill being a Head Coach in the CFL. Bring 'em both in next year.
Personally if there's one thing that scares me as much as anything it's when a long time collegiate coach takes a pro head coaching job be it in football, hockey or basketball. There are a few exceptions such as Jimmy Johnson. Switzer did OK riding on the coat-tails and an uber-talented club Johnson left behind before things tailed off and he was gone, Others like Pete Carroll had 15 years of NFL coaching under his belt before his USC run. Most though don't. Dennis Erickson failed. Nick Saban struggled and was back to college after 2 years. Lou Holtz was a disaster in his 1 year with the Jets. Greg Marshall looked decent in his first year at 9-8-1 then went 5-17 before being let go early in his 3rd season. We all know about Tedford who had a cup of coffee as an assistant under Wally. 23 years of NCAA coaching between CFL stints was too much to overcome. Before somebody like Nill gets the big job I'd want to see him spend a couple seasons getting accustomed to the pro game as an assistant. As "Tuna" Bill Parcells once said when coaching in college you get to play dictator. It doesn't work that way in the pro ranks. I think where many former collegiate coaches struggle it's in adjusting to the entirely different landscape of coaching highly paid men with their own ideas and objectives versus kids just happy to be there.
If any ex-CFL player, and Canadian college coach deserves a shot at being a Head Coach in the CFL, it is Blake Nill.

And, by the way, it would be nice if the man who has done so much for the Thunderbird football program, Dave Sidoo, is part of the next ownership group for the Lions.

This CFL fan would vote to ''take a chance" on Blake Nill as Head Coach. Or, put it this way, hiring him would merit investigation of the possibility in depth. If Sidoo was involved as an owner, and chose to go with Nill, that is just about all the endorsement I would need.

Guarantee of success? No. But I would think the odds are very good.

Jimmy Johnson from college to the pros. Good example of a smooth transition. There are loads of unsuccessful NFL Head Coaches with all the requisite stops along the way punched on their resume card. I don't like Jerry Jones, but that one time, hiring Johnson, he made an outside of the box decision that I liked.

With the CFL, there have been guys with all the requisite stops along the way on their resumes, but they did not cut it as HC in the CFL. Formula thinking does not always work. Going against the grain can work, or fail. It is almost always a leap of faith and a trust in your judgment, after the vetting. A couple of keys: Has the coach won a lot? After consideration, can the coach make the transition to the pros?

To support your thinking, a coach that disappointed me, when he failed in the NFL, after much success in college, was Steve Spurrier with the Redskins.

Just IMO ...

sidoo11.jpg
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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