Football Operations: GM Ed Hervey, HC Wally Buono and the Coaching Staff

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DanoT
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don corleone wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:30 am
Hey guys,
Liking the big statement move. In place and done by Dec. 1.
Would have been a long off season with the Argo drama plan although apparently there is merit to that program.
Bold decision maker is the description I feel applies well. Looking forward to the synergy with Geroy. All they need now is Swervin Mervin. Thinking Manny gets a new deal and in general the receiver position will be well looked after.
For the record the live mic thing was a dumb TSN idea. Hervey made the right call.
Christmas came early this year on the coast. This is positive.
What is "the Argo drama plan"?
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:59 am
https://www.cfl.ca/2017/11/30/transitio ... ll-unfold/

From Jim Morris ...
The old general manager will continue as head coach of the B.C. Lions for one more season.

The new general manager says he wouldn’t have taken the job unless the old coach stayed. The current vice-president of football operations says the new GM can fire the coach, but it would be the owner’s decision to fire the general manager.

Such is the new reality of the BC Lions. How will it all unfold? Check in at this time next year.
Ha ha ... Alice in Wonderland, or Edward in Wallyland.
The hiring of Hervey creates many questions.

How will the relationship work between Buono and Hervey? Will Buono be content to let someone else make big picture decisions? What sway will Hervey have, if any, over Buono?
Some good questions.

The arrangement of authority is odd, but we do have some change, even some hope, mostly for 2019. 2018? Sounds like more of the same that we have seen.
While I'm from Missouri on Hervey I've become OK with the arrangement. The key IMO is that Wally is the defacto interim HC. He can go into the season coaching for the now unencumbered by the need to consider the big picture that former GM Wally would've imposed on HC Wally. He can leave the big picture concerns up to Hervey and worry about nothing more than focusing on preparing for the next game. As for his VP responsibilities I think Buono will still be looking at big picture things more in terms of the club as a whole in conjunction with his role as Alternate Governor. Big picture stuff related to football ops staff and player personnel will all be on Hervey's shoulders.
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B.C.FAN
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Hambone wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:32 am
JohnnyMusso wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:53 pm
It looks like West Coast Joe is right, most of the coaching staff, if not all will be back for one more year:
That assumption may be premature. There a lots of coaching dominos to fall yet. They may be prepared to keep most but it may not work out that way. Supposedly Montreal has been given permission to talk to Washington, Jones and Bellefeuille. If one of them happen to get the Montreal job who knows what other changes and opportunities may fall out of that. They could take some current BC assistants with them or conversely those who wind up rounding out a Montreal staff could create openings with other clubs. We already know there are 4 vacancies in Ottawa. There will be several more before the dust settles. Just as Wally determined it was time to inject new blood and direction in football ops with the hiring of Hervey it could well be the Lions won't attempt to hold any of the assistants back if they can go elsewhere.
The Calgary Stampeders, who had the best defence in the league and the best pass defence, fired their DBs coach Kahlil Carter after losing the Grey Cup. It's a cruel business.
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DanoT
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Hambone wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:54 am

While I'm from Missouri on Hervey I've become OK with the arrangement. The key IMO is that Wally is the defacto interim HC. He can go into the season coaching for the now unencumbered by the need to consider the big picture that former GM Wally would've imposed on HC Wally. He can leave the big picture concerns up to Hervey and worry about nothing more than focusing on preparing for the next game. As for his VP responsibilities I think Buono will still be looking at big picture things more in terms of the club as a whole in conjunction with his role as Alternate Governor. Big picture stuff related to football ops staff and player personnel will all be on Hervey's shoulders.
^^^Exactly. Wally will be less stressed, more relaxed and happier than in the past.

Often times athletes announce their intent to retire at the end of a season and the season turns into a farewell tour. Wally has somehow managed to do this as a HC which is quite rare. :wink:
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DanoT wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:49 am
What is "the Argo drama plan"?
Just making reference to the delay in filling the gm and coach position last season in Toronto. Do not have the dates but pretty sure they went into the draft without a gm.

It's all good. Suppose I was just trying to make the post interesting. Just a fan
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Dave Johnson (the coach before Jacques) blew a lot of scholarship money on American students who were one and dones. When Chapdelaine took over, they only had 19 full rides left. The alumni stepped back about a year after Kelly was hired. It's an under resourced program and would not be competitive in the Canada West, either. The GNAC is the lowest ranked of the D2 conferences and if managed and supported properly, an SFU team should be able to be anywhere between a three to eight win team. It just isn't a priority for the school.
Hambone wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:39 pm
Coast Mountain Lion wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:09 pm
SFU playing in the division they're in now is comparable to an AHL team playing in the NHL. They need to come back to CIAU.
Division they play in shouldn't matter at this point. They've been back in NCAA Div II for 7 or 8 years now, long enough to turn the athletes in the program over twice and the results continue to get worse. Are they that lousy at recruiting? Are they challenged or at a disadvantage recruiting kids to play in Canada? Is the program badly underfunded or are they lacking scholarships compared to the competition?
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wonder if Corey Mace, Calgary defensive line coach who is from Vancouver would ever think of coming home
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Hambone
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don corleone wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:10 am
DanoT wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:49 am
What is "the Argo drama plan"?
Just making reference to the delay in filling the gm and coach position last season in Toronto. Do not have the dates but pretty sure they went into the draft without a gm.

It's all good. Suppose I was just trying to make the post interesting. Just a fan
The delays in Toronto were not so much in filling the jobs. The biggest delays were in making the decision to remove Barker and go in a new direction. It took 2 months from season's end to make that decision then another month to fill the jobs.

Barker was let go on January 24th. Milanovich stepped down on January 27th. Both moves happened less than 3 weeks before CFL free agency. Popp and Trestman joined them on February 28th. So yes there was a void when free agency hit but they had been in place for 2-1/2 months prior to the draft. Business did still carry on during that time although Interim GM Zimmerman was no doubt hamstrung by the uncertainties. In absence of a GM they still managed to extend Black, Van Zeyl and Owusu-Ansah as well as signing a half dozen CFL FAs. I don't think any of the FAs stuck around long enough to provide any value.
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After thinking about this for a day, I'd say Hervey as GM is an upgrade. Look at Wally's moves last season: Foucault, Williams, Waters (although Ty Long unexpectedly saved his bacon on that one). Hervey has stated the obvious: QBs need better protection--that alone is a massive upgrade over the current refusal to acknowledge this fact.

Much has been made of the EDM position/excuse given for firing him. it probably had more to do with refusing to meet his contract expectations. Hervey said the anti-social behaviour he was accused of was the decision of coaching staff (not hard to see with that SOB Maas). He supported their actions, and got canned. Meanwhile, Maas and co. are still at it.

What I don't agree with is Wally still being on the sidelines--alone, with no headset communication, deteriorating health. it's time for him to be just in his Vice-president role up in the booth.
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Wally is the coach and Vice President. There is no President at the present. So who reports to who? Wally as coach reports to the General Manager. The General Manager reports to the Vice President who is Wally.
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Toppy Vann wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:59 am
Wally's had two failures as HCs in recent years - Benevides and Chapdelaine.
Chap sort of turned the team around when they hired him as interim. Then remind me how successful they were after he was fired?
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TheLionKing wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:39 pm
Wally is the coach and Vice President. There is no President at the present. So who reports to who? Wally as coach reports to the General Manager. The General Manager reports to the Vice President who is Wally.
And Wally as vice president reports to David Braley because Braley doesn’t trust anyone else. But Hervey still has full control over football operations. At least that’s what Wally says.
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Wally keeps the big office and remains VP. Enough said as to who is really the boss in 2018.

Wally wants to focus on coaching so he can retire, at least making the playoffs and hopefully much more. An important part of this is about Buono's legacy.

But in Hervey, the Leos have one of the best young GM's in the league, in terms of making astute decisions in the area of personnel. Hervey can learn a lot from Buono in terms of manipulating the press and being accessible. Buono is a master in this area.

While I was surprised at the decision to hire Hervey I was not surprised that it had some kind of tricky element to it. It has Buono written all over it in this regard.

Kinda reminds me of Chap being hired back as the recievers coach while he was really the offensive coordinator or Dorazio being named co-offensive coordinator while never calling an offensive play.

With Buono there is always smoke and mirrors. What is being presented is often not reality. With Buono its very often all about 'optics''

But the most important thing is to get back to a winning season. Hervey identified the offensive line as a key area for improvement. That was a good start.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Hambone
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:20 pm
TheLionKing wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:39 pm
Wally is the coach and Vice President. There is no President at the present. So who reports to who? Wally as coach reports to the General Manager. The General Manager reports to the Vice President who is Wally.
And Wally as vice president reports to David Braley because Braley doesn’t trust anyone else. But Hervey still has full control over football operations. At least that’s what Wally says.

The way I heard it put is Ed has full reign to fire HC Wally but the only person who can fire GM Ed is Braley. Hervey effectively reports to Braley. At this point in time I think too many put too much into Buono's role as VP and traditional line of command. He will only be in that role for 1 year. In that capacity I expect his responsibilities will mostly be related to dealings between the club and the CFL. He likely continues as Alternate Governor and may continue to represent the Lions on some of the league committees. His role as VP vis a vis the GM will almost be ceremonial or in title only.
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Hambone
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However this season unfolds I don't think it impacts Buono's legacy one iota. His legacy is already cemented. Naturally he is driven to win as are all in his position. Every coach and player wants to go out on a high note. Few do. Should BC go out and win the Grey Cup it will maybe add a little more polish to Wally's legacy but that's about it. Should they miss the playoffs again I don't think it changes anything. Bouno would of course be terribly disappointed but 1 or 2 seasons in a 30 year coaching career does not a legacy make......or break. Nobody thought any less of Tom Landry who went out on the tails of a 3-13 season or Chuck Noll whose Steelers made the playoffs once in his final 7 years. Don Matthews went 0-8 in his final coaching gig. I don't think that changed his legacy.
Last edited by Hambone on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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