Argos 40 - Lions 13, Post-Mortem Stats and Comments

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CardiacKid
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How many think Manny will be back next year?

His post-game comments were not kind; he ripped the culture of the dressing room as lacking intensity and urgency. Not the words of a guy in a rush to return to the fold.

Got to wonder who he has in mind when he provides that assessment?

Dollars to donuts Braley won’t have sold the team by the end of this year. I didn’t think it likely at the start of the year and my pessimism has only increased with Braley’s comments re. the concussion lawsuit, his misleading comments regarding the search for a team president and the fact season ticket renewals have been going for a couple of weeks. The stars are not aligned for positive movement on the ownership front....
TheLionKing
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aklawitter wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:18 pm
I'll drive Khari to the airport
And I'll drive Dan Dorazio and Mark Washington.
TheLionKing
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leo4life wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:22 pm
Bouno backed his OC/DC before this game according to LU...🤡
Now, there's a surprise !
TheLionKing
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CardiacKid wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:30 am
How many think Manny will be back next year?

His post-game comments were not kind; he ripped the culture of the dressing room as lacking intensity and urgency. Not the words of a guy in a rush to return to the fold.

Got to wonder who he has in mind when he provides that assessment?
I would welcome him back. I listened to his interview. His comments appear candid to me.
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DanoT
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What a putrid finish to the season for the Lions however i am not disappointed that the Lions lost as it is what I expected. The silver lining might be that Wally will finally realize that he is not going to be able to flip a switch next year and suddenly have the Lions winning football games next year. Wally, who has a talent for determining when a player's career is done, may now finally realize that he is done.

The success of the O last week against the Bombers was vs one of the worst Ds in the CFL that usually gives up a ton of yardage. This week vs the Argos with one of the best Ds in the CFL, the Lions were brought down to earth.

Once again I find myself asking, why did the Lions not move the pocket around by having Jennings roll out as an adjustment to a ferocious rush by the Argos? On passing plays Ricky Ray was moved around more and was more mobile than Jennings. :dizzy: :dizzy:

I am not ready to give up on Jennings but I have given up on the guys who coach him and the rest of the coaching staff.
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Sir Purrcival
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CardiacKid wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:30 am
How many think Manny will be back next year?

His post-game comments were not kind; he ripped the culture of the dressing room as lacking intensity and urgency. Not the words of a guy in a rush to return to the fold.

Got to wonder who he has in mind when he provides that assessment?

Dollars to donuts Braley won’t have sold the team by the end of this year. I didn’t think it likely at the start of the year and my pessimism has only increased with Braley’s comments re. the concussion lawsuit, his misleading comments regarding the search for a team president and the fact season ticket renewals have been going for a couple of weeks. The stars are not aligned for positive movement on the ownership front....
Manny is a quality receiver but he isn't irreplaceable. If he doesn't come back, oh well. This fan thinks there are far bigger issues with this team than the receiving corp. If he doesn't want to be here, I don't really blame him. You only have so many years in this business and this team is in turmoil and is likely there for the foreseeable future.

As to the ownership situation as it relates to all of the various positions in management. The basic question is: If you were a quality individual in your respective field, be it coaching, marketing, upper management etc. etc., would you be wanting to hook your future to a team whose ownership is up in the air? Most would probably say "no", the simple reason being that new ownership often likes to bring in their own choices for team management. You might find yourself just as suddenly out of a job. So, do we likely see Wally next year? If Braley still owns the team, yes. As someone who doesn't really mind if he replaced under new ownership, he might well choose to stay until the team is sold. As for the many hats, Wally wears, again, who is going to want to take any of those positions without some conviction that they aren't going to find themselves out in the cold in 8 or 10 months? Starting now, every month that Braley holds this team, is a delay that will cause this team to increasingly continue with the status quo next season. Soon, will come the time when teams who are looking for changes, will start to glean from the candidates who are up and coming and presently the Lions are going to be at a serious disadvantage. There is no certainty, no optimism for the future, just questions and a shrinking fan base. Please Mr. Braley, find some quality buyers and sell this team. If you really care for something that you saved once before, save it again but this time by stepping away and letting new ownership come in and chart a new course.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
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Well, you know what, you know, you know, WE LOST, WE LOST BADLY, WE LOST EMBARRASINGLY BADLY, you know, you know and you, Wally Buono, bear the most responsibility.

Yes, it’s a team game and players and assistant coaches and part-time presidents and owner all share in the blame.

But you, Wally Buono, the self-professed legend, is where leadership, accountability, responsibility begin and end. You were the GM, the HC, the face of the franchise, and had total control of the roster, trades, drafts, offensive and defensive schemes, game plans, and the assistants who implemented them.

If the players did not ‘execute’ it was your responsibility to get them to do so. If the assistant coaches did not get the players to ‘execute’ it was you who hired them and wanted them to work for you. If the players did not ‘execute’ it was you who chose the roster, who placed them in their starting positions, who was in-charge of coaching them in practices, and leading them in games. You were given total power by an absentee owner and given that power for a very long time. This disaster is on you.

No one doubts the talent on this Leos team. That has been said over and over again this season by Leo veteran players, opposing players and coaches, CFL analysts, and reporters and media types who cover our Lions.

As Lowell Ullrich wrote after this game, “Though there clearly is talent, much of what else had been built off the field with Buono in charge lies in relative ruin”. Cody Husband, who has a suspected MCL tear that we need rehab in the off-season said the following after the final game: |This team had a lot of talent. We underperformed. Now we have a long off-season ahead.”

So why did this talented team, a team many analysts believed was ready to overtake Calgary this season not make the playoffs for the first time in 21 seasons. Why did Jonathan Jennings, whom numerous analysts believed would win the MOP this season, have a season of struggles after such an awesome 2016 season, his first season as a full-time starter.

Last season, a week after the end of the regular season, Jennings was pulling magic out of a hat in leading our Leos to a thrilling comeback victory against the Bombers. What happened to that promising Leos team that led the CFL in rushing in 2016, that protected their quarterback much better, and that led the CFL in sacks and punt return average. Where did that previous success disappear and why?,

When fingers are pointed at our offensive, defensive, and special teams coordinators or assistant coaches, they are Buono choices. It was Buono who fired Stubler, after two successful seasons as our defensive coordinator (one record breaking one) and named Mark Washington as his defensive coordinator (Stubler was instantly snapped up by Hufnagel and gave the Stamps a lot of defensive success). It is Buono who chose to part ways with Chapdelaine and it was Buono who chose to rehire Khari Jones as his offensive coordinator, even though he had been demoted by Tedford.

It is Buono who rehired the departed Dan Dorazio, whom Tedford had said good bye to. It is Buono who hired Simmons as our special teams coordinator and whom also coached our punt return team at times this season.

Buono was in charge of the choices we made in this off-season, in terms of signing available CFL free agents and not one of them made an impact for 2017. It was Buono who traded Olifioye. It was Buono who was in charge of offensive line juggling and defensive secondary juggling this season.

As I looked down at the sidelines, in last night’s game against the Argos, I saw two Head Coaches who were poles apart. There was Marc Trestmann, studying his game plan sheet, talking on the head phones to his spotter, conferring with his assistants, sharing a piece of advice with a player, or discussing something with Ricky Ray.

Then there was Buono, detached most of the time, conferring with no one, arms crossed, biting or moving his lip, yelling at a player from time to time, and generally looking like he was on an island by himself, not really knowing what was going on, in terms of the details of the game, such as what play was being called, what formation we would be in, or what was going on out there.

When our Leos took a penalty for too many men on the field on our punt return team, giving the Argos a first down, after we had stopped their drive, it was a reflection of a season in which our Leos were most often poorly prepared to play football in the way they needed to be.

When Ross threw his first pass towards the end of the game, and the football spun out of his hand and Cody Husband was knocked over backwards, injuring his knee, the entire scenario was a miserable, despondent sequence that made me want to shut down this season right then. When we didn’t even attempt to throw to Iannuzzi in the fourth quarter, with the score out of hand, we lacked the class that too often has been missing in a myriad of ways with veteran Leo players.

In two short seasons since Buono’s return to the sidelines, and we have a disaster to deal with. He should never have returned to the sidelines and hired another coach after Tedford left. But his ego got in the way, as it did when he couldn’t stop undermining his two appointed Head Coaches after he retired in 2011. Attendance is badly down, fans are angry and disillusioned, and we have no idea what the future holds at this time.

The odds are that Braley will wait a season to sell the team, Buono will be back, and this story seems to have no end. Leos fans deserve so much better than this.

Enough. You know, you know, you know what…its time for the GOOD, the BAD, and the UGLY, for the last time this season, and you know, you know, too often this season its been the BAD and the UGLY that has dominated.

THE GOOD

There was little good to say about this game but individual performances deserve to be mentioned. Congrats to Sol E. for breaking his own CFL record for tackles and for exhibiting great role modelling of playing the game with passion and professionalism.

On offence, Manny Arseneaux and Bryan Burnham played hard and determined. Jeremiah Johnson, underutilized this season had 5 carries for a 5.4 yd. average and 3 receptions for 28 yards. On defense, our two best defensive lineman were Junior Luke and David Menard. However, the statement also says something about our International choices on the defensive line.

Outside of a very untimely penalty Charles Vaillancourt played very well again. Foucault’s play has improved and Husband was solid before his injury. But Antonio Johnson struggled mightily at left tackle.

Along with Sol. E, Chandler Fenner played a good game as did Awe and Davis. No question that linebacking was our strength this season. James played an excellent game at field corner. He is aggressive and smart and provides hope for next season at that position. Long had another excellent game and along with Sol E. he has been a star player for us this season and a ray of sunshine amongst so many dark clouds.

THE BAD

Where does one start? After such a good offensive game plan last week against Winnipeg, other than a few screen passes, it was back to same old, same old on offence.

We didn’t run the football enough, our pass blocking was inconsistent from good on one play to terrible on the next, our passing game was horribly predictable, our receivers were well covered most of the time, and Jonathan Jennings was badly off.

I thought this was the worst game that Jennings has played this season and as a big supporter of Jennings talents, it is cause for concern. I’ve seen this scenario too many times before in the Buono era. It all starts with a young, inexperienced quarterback who has tons of tools and natural ability and experiences early success and then is ruined by our offensive scheme and lack of pass protection and experiences too much pressure, gets hit and sacked too often and is not the same player.

I saw it happen to Casey Printers after his sensational 2004 season, saw it happen to Buck Pierce, whose quarterback efficiency plummeted after such early success, and saw it happen to Travis Lulay, who was not the same quarterback, in terms of his decision making after the 2011 season until his revival this year.

Now its happened to Jonathan Jennings. One could question a number of things about Jennings play this season but not the accuracy of his arm, which is elite. In this game, Jennings missed throws that he could usually complete in his sleep. His confidence is gone. The success of his last game was a distant memory. He looks like a classic case of PTSD.

Is he ruined for good? That is difficult to assess but he cannot return as our starting quarterback to this offensive scheme and the lack of coaching he is getting.

For those pinning their hopes on Travis Lulay, you are pinning hopes on a quarterback who played very well for a short stretch of games and who is an excellent leader but who also now has a past filled with injury. I also believe, with this offensive scheme, it would not be too long until we would be seeing the Travis Lulay of 2015 again in short order. This offence destroys quarterbacks over time.

Chris Rainey has been another Jonathan Jennings this season. His play has fallen although in this game he gave it all and made some excellent plays on special team returns. But he has lost his mojo and you can see that when he does get that rare opportunity to get into space. Last season, he was so dangerous but this season, he doesn’t have that same ‘feel’ and that is a confidence issue. He still makes defenders miss but that ‘take it to the house sense’ has not been there.

Last season, when Jennings played so well, all we heard was the great job that Lulay was doing mentoring him. Well, Jennings has not had a good season and there has been no comments about the mentoring, or lack thereof by Travis Lulay.

The reality is that no amount of mentoring can overcome our offensive scheme, lack of game planning, and lack of preparation. Everything about our offence is off-kilter. Our pass patterns are badly designed, executed too slowly, and are predictable. We’re at least a half second to a full second too slow. I watch other teams run their crossing patterns and our stems are too deep and we don’t run them at full speed. We look amateurish playing against prosl

On defense, we are still fundamentally flawed, scheme wise. If an offence runs four receivers to the wide side of the field, we only have three defenders and no linebacker coving the flat. It’s a flaw that we have not corrected since Mark Washington took over our defense. Defenders end up running around not knowing who to cover and opposing teams exploit it with enthusiasm and relish.

Thompson was terrible at safety in this game but what National has not been terrible at safety since Miles retired? One has to question how we are playing our safety in this defensive scheme. All of them could not have been this bad without help making them so.

THE UGLY

The blame game has been an innovative process this season from player lack of execution, lack of urgency, lack of ‘making plays’ to creating a fund for players wives to attend the Big Dance. The most recent has been a lack of player leadership. Yes, we lost some vet leaders from last year’s team – Jovan Olifioye from our offensive line, Ryan Phillips from our defensive backfield, and Jason Aragki from our special teams unit.

But we still had Sol E., Travis Lulay, Manny Arseneaux, Rolly Lumbala, Marco Iannuzzi as well as emerging leaders as Hunter Steward, Cody Husband, Bryan Burnham, and David Menard.

The problem is that player leaders need an environment in which to lead. When your Head Coach is constantly blaming players after losses its not easy to create an environment conducive to winning and creating a ‘sense of overall team’. When fingers are constantly pointed, it creates more of an ‘everyone for themselves’ type of environment that is more challenging to lead from a vet player perspective and when player leaders can’t facilitate positive scheme changes that are necessary from the coaching staff, player leaders are not viewed as effective.

This was an ugly, miserable, disappointing season. How it ended last night was fitting. Amidst flashes of brilliance, this Leos team had no identity, was brutally inconsistent, took bad penalties, was poorly prepared, had dubious game plans, and mostly stuck with what was proven to not work.

Stupid is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result. I understand that Buono is not the brightest clam on the seashore but sometimes it borders on the ludicrous.

WRAP

Whatever happens next season, we need more than some personnel changes in a few key positions. We need an entirely different approach to playing the game of professional football. We have seen what coaching change can bring to a team.

We’ve seen a Chris Jones turn an Edmonton team around in short order and revive a Riders team. We saw what June Jones did in Hamilton this season. Marc Trestmann took over a disaster in Toronto and will be hosting the East Division Final.

If Buono returns, he may also be looking at some key players who might not want to be back here next season. Hunter Steward, who could try the NFL, is a National who can play the left tackle position and he will be coveted by other CFL teams.

Other notable free agents include Travis Lulay, Manny Arceneaux, Kirby Fabien, Shaquille Johnson, Cody Husband, Nick Moore, Hunter Steward, Chandler Fenner, TJ Lee, Louchez Purifoy, Maxx Forde, Ronnie Yell, and Mike Benson.

This Leos team has nowhere to go but up but Buono, should he return, may have challenges to face, in terms of getting some of our free agent talent back on the field for 2018.

With this most disappointing season coming to an end I want to say thank you to my Lionbacker colleagues for all of your insightful posts and your contributions this season as well as past seasons.

This is a quality pro football website due to your very knowledgeable and thoughtful posts. This site is not just made up of arm chair quarterbacks who just post with hindsight. There is a ton of foresight and understanding and perspective of the game of football that makes this site a treat to be a part of and a place to look forward to reading your thoughts and views of Leos football.

Thank you and enjoy the off-season and the playoffs.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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sj-roc
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Who are these BC Lions?

The 2017 season has told us.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Lion Guy
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leo4life wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:22 pm
Bouno backed his OC/DC before this game according to LU...🤡
Of course he did. They're all sitting in the same church pew discussing their players poor execution of their awesome game planning.
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WestCoastJoe
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Excellent, detailed post, Blitz. You are a passionate fan of the Lions and the CFL.

Strange time we find ourselves in. Kind of like Limbo. Or maybe Purgatory. Or worse. That other place.

It is all pain for Lions' fans.

It is difficult to imagine free agents wanting to sign here. Same with coaches.

Jennings shows some shock, some battle fatigue. What the heck just happened, he must be asking? Best thing for him? A release or trade. Let Trestman have him. Or one of the Jones boys. I do believe he would look, once again, like an MOP candidate. When Jennings started to shine with the Lions, he had Tedford and Cortez around as mentors. As Dunigan pointed out, even Ricky Ray has Trestman, Brady and Condell around to give perspective.

I agree that Travis Lulay, returning next year, would become a human piñata once again.

Coaching? Wally has a good shield of Teflon, and he has built up much loyalty from fans. He is a survivor. But all he does at this time, as he carries on working for David Braley, is tarnish his own image as a CFL man.

Next year? A recovery? Not likely. More of the same philosophy? Yes. Teams have us very well scouted. Our O has vulnerabilities, discussed repeatedly. Toronto took pretty much everything away. Our receivers are blanketed. Our QBs face an avalanche on most downs. Our D has vulnerabilities. Toronto's O played like there was no defence on the field. They found space everywhere. Huge holes in our zone D. Our STs have vulnerabilities. No return gaps. Poor coverage. Easily tricked. Our players lose confidence, lose their way.

David Braley grew old in his time owning the Lions. Wally Buono has been here since 2003. Time for new people, new ideas, new energy.

And we wait ... At least some of us wait. Others ... move on.

Thank you to our passionate members for their participation on this site. It has not been an easy year for us.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Lion Guy
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The Good.

Ty Long showed improvement. Linebackers played well. Johnson ran wee. Burnham and Arceneaux played well when we bothered to get the ball to them. Thompson improved at safety.

The Bad.

The secondary. Horrid. But that might be because we had ZERO pass rush. Jennings looked lost in most games. Unsure, forced throws. Special teams. They were non existent and never a factor. The Oline and the DLine were pathetic. We rushed 3 on many occasions and they didn't even look like we're interested in pushing toward the QB. They just engaged their Oli mean and stood there.

The takeaway ratio. Buono said we needed more takeaways this year. We finished LAST in that category. At no time this season did I ever think we would intercept a pass.

The game experience at BC Place. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz. $9 for a *poop* small can of Bud. Are you kidding me?

The Ugly.

Ownership and coaching. The same crappy schemes, the same inability to make adjustments and the same excuses. Game after game. There is many more to add above, but the root cause is the coaching staff. Stale, boring and at times just plain incompetent. We need young blood, some vibrancy and innovation. You won't get that from a 69 year old man. The game is different now Wally.

I can only hope for change now. If that doesn't happen I won't be back.
Dusty
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Great summary, Blitz. The offensive predictability was on full display for one one play because I had the right angle to view the play area. It was one of Manny's 4 yard curl routes. Even before the curl, the Argo defender covering the deeper Lion (Johnson) was racing towards Manny to double up coverage, leaving Johnson wide open..... Manny got 4 yards, tackled on the spot of catch. If I can see this why can't the coaches in the booth see it. All it would take is a pump fake then a little longer throw. Just one example of a refusal or inability to adjust play design.... yes, it would mean 1 more second of protection, but c'mon, don't the OC and O-line coaches work together?
The answer to that question is no... judging by their isolation from each other on the sideline.
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The_Pauser
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I don't see how this team can retain Jennings as the starting QB at the $300k he's set to make in the 2018 season. Not after the horrible performance he put up this year. Missed throws, interceptions galore, inconsistency, he looked bad. The typical people who have had an agenda against Wally for years will blame it all on coaching, but all you have to do is compare Jennings performance to Lulay's and it's like night and day. Did we hire new coaches just for when Lulay was playing? I'm not saying the coaching was great, but it's a copout to just blame coaching for Jennings poor performance. He was bad this year. He was really bad this year. Right from the beginning of the season, pre-injury, he didn't look good. When he went down Lulay came in and all of a sudden our offense caught fire.

Our offensive line was absolutely disgusting this year. On the radio they were talking about keeping a couple members from it. I would be okay if we replaced everyone. But realistically if we are keeping some for next year, Hunter Steward is the guy you keep around. Cody Husband if you can't find another C, and that's about it. That leaves one Canadian spot, and two International spots. I'm even fine going with 3 Internationals if need be. Just protect the damn QB. Also, I think it goes without saying, Dan Dorazio needs to be taken out to pasture.

Next is our D-line. Keep the 3 Canadians (Luke, Forde, and Menard), and replace all of the Internationals. Brooks included because of his massive salary. Unless he was hobbled by injury the entire year, I really didn't see enough from him to warrant his massive salary. There was no push from our D-line, either from the interior or the outside. Bazzie, a guy I like, did more mouthing off and took more penalties than he got sacks. Pathetic.

Our secondary could use a slight revamp too. Yell and Lee can hang around as I thought they played well. I would move Purifoy back to the Nickel spot, and if Fenner can't cut it moving back to DB then release him (or have him battle it out with Purifoy for the Nickel spot at camp).

Solly stays at MLB, and I really like what I saw out of Awe and Davis...have them battle it out for the starter spot and keep the other as the backup.

Back to offense: Chris Williams is done here. I would look to retain Nick Moore, and roll with Arceneaux, Burnham, Moore, Johnson, and Vandervoort as our 5 receivers. I don't think we need to go out and spend more money in this area as we have a lot of talented receivers. We also have some interesting candidates on the PR who could make an impact and push for a job.

JJ stays as our starting RB, but I would look for a Rainey replacement. Don't cut him right away, but find someone to beat him out for a job. This could be Tyler Davis, or someone new brought in for camp.
Roar you Lions roar!
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Toppy Vann
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I missed Arceneaux's comments post game and there's been a time I felt he was a problem but this season he's stood as someone speaking the truth - almost like a Nik Lewis. Maybe he's maturing and he's trying. He could have been used (other than what, once - out of the backfield or more in open spaces that Nik Lewis would run into.

But I kinda think Jennings has lost it. Rakeem Cato comes to mind. No one's calling him since he left MTL.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
maxlion
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I think we need some fresh sets of eyes to evaluate both the coaches and players. I would lean towards hiring a GM from outside the organization.
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