Eskimos 35 - Lions 29, Post-Game Stats and Comments

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Blitz
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Now Wally is really stretching things to blame the players. He told the press and media, yes he told the press and media that the players had a fund set up for their wives so they could attend this year's Grey Cup game.

That is the reason why they missed the playoffs. They took winning for granted.

The notion that they would set up a fund so that if they made it to the Grey Cup, their wives could attend, does not mean they took winning for granted.

They just were preparing for the possibility and that was good planning. if they didn't get the berth, well the funds could be used for a different purpose.

This is really ugly stuff by Buono to turn on his players and say this kind of stuff to the press and media. His blame game has no limits and he has no conscience to do this. Sad, sad, sad to see a man of his age using these kind of tactics. Its as low as it gets.

I remember Dickenson, in 2005, saying that a number of Calgary players were not proud of Buono as their HC.

Right now, as a die hard Leos fan, I am embarrassed that he is our Head Coach
Here is Ed Willes excerpt.

As with any last-place team, the Lions have provided an endless source of material for their critics. Some are valid. Some are asinine. But when asked Friday about this team’s circumstances, Buono went in a slightly different direction and, by slightly different, we mean another time dimension.

During the course of a free-form, steam-of-consciousness exchange with the media, Buono suggested the Lions took winning for granted this season. As proof, he pointed to a fund the team set up for the wives of Lions’ players to travel to the Grey Cup. Yes he did.

So for those of you who think this season was about Jennings’ interception ratio or the Lions’ inability to finish games, you now realize how wrong you’ve been.

“You see the mindset,” Buono said. “Now is that arrogance? Is that stupidity? Or did we just expect (to win)?

“When you expect to win sometimes you don’t earn it. Maybe that’s been our downfall. We expected to win and we forgot how to earn it.”

Sure. Why not. Buono knows this team and knows about the psychology of winning. Besides, you have to admit, the Grey Cup fund for players’ wives theorem scores big points for originality.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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WestCoastJoe
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Re the International DL. We went small IMO. Brooks is not dominant, and injured too often, IMO. The personnel choices and the blueprint were flawed IMO.

Soft zone D is choosing slow death. IMO a CFL D needs to mix things up more and blitz more. Can't do it? Then you choose slow death, unless you give up big plays anyway for quick death.

DBs. I like our talent there. I don't like how we ask our Safeties to play. Too deep. No influence on the offence. Few plays made. It seems the offence almost does not need to account for the Safety.

The O Line is a sieve on pass protection. IMO it is not an issue of lack of talent.

Our passing game is easy for teams to scout and prepare for. Same route packages. Easy to jump routes. Easy to anticipate moves, waiting for the receiver in zones. Our receivers rarely get separation. Hurry up is non existent.

We had no idea how to utilize Chris Rainey or Chris Williams this year on offence. It would be interesting to see what June Jones would do with them. Are we getting the most out of our talent? No.

STs. Very, very pedestrian. Easy to scout and fool.

Quarterbacking. IMO we would be foolish to give up on Jennings. I agree with Glen Suitor and Blitz on this. If we put Bo Levi Mitchell in our offence, IMO, he would look like a failure. And he would be on the long term injury list. If we were to let Jennings go, as a CFL fan, I would like to see what he could do working with June Jones. Or Trestman. Even Chris Jones. Jeff Tedford may have had more positive influence on Jennings than we realize or credit. Maybe even Cortez. Those guys have been around a lot of very successful quarterbacks.

If we have the same owner and coaching staff next year, I think we can expect more of the same results on the field.

The league has evolved. As a football organization, we have not.

Why was this year such a shocker?

Teams scout. They study tape. They adjust game plans. They adapt. We tend to not do those things to the same extent. Our coordinators deliver what is wanted from them, conservative, stable packages on both O and D, that can be polished over and over in practice. Teams can expect what is coming. The onus is then put on the players to make it work. If they fail to make it work, it is attributed to lack of execution, or lack of emotion.

I expect much of the same old, same old next year. In other words, humble times for our team. The competition is too good these days. All teams except Montreal are above us at this time IMO. As Wally has indicated, you are as good as your record says you are. Since June Jones took over in Hamilton, without changing the roster to any great extent, I think they also passed us by.

Just IMO. Others might see it differently.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Blitz
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Regarding Buono's latest pathological behavior, in terms of blaming players, (now using the fund started by players to pay for the wives of Leos to attend the Grey Cup game, if the team won a berth to the game) I find it not only a measure of Buono's lack of character, lack of sense of 'team' and an almost sick, twisted campaign to avoid any responsibility for this season.

This is not admirable behavior for a 'leader', let alone someone who calls himself a 'legend' and who is the face of the franchise. Its cringworthy stuff.

In terms of our offence this season, Buono offered some remarks before the Edmonton game that I found interesting.

In an Ed Willes article Buono said the following:
On Friday, Buono pointed out Lions’ quarterbacks will throw for well over 5,000 yards this season and the team will finish with about 7,000 yards in total offence.

To date, Jennings and Lulay have accounted for more passing yards than the first-place Stampeders. Yet, the offence is perceived to be the reason for the Lions’ woes.
Our Leos woes this season do go far beyond quarterback play or even offensive play. Whatever has effected this team, it is something we may not find out about for a long time.

But if I was a Leo player, and all I could read or hear or see, game after game, was the boss blaming me and my teammates, over and over again, to the press and the media, he is not someone that I would be enthused to play for.

Just think how the players must feel, when Buono uses a player fund to pay for the married player's wives to attend the Grey Cup game, should we have gotten the opportunity to play in the game, and just before the game in which we are knocked out of the playoffs, Buono brings it up in public as a reason for why we lost so many games this season.

I would not be happy at all. I would consider it a betrayal. When Buono said "Now is that arrogance? Or is that stupidity? Or did we just expect? I would be angry if I was a Leo player.

Is this the type of coach you would want to play for? Is this the type of leader you would admire and respect.

A team is supposed to be in it all together, win or lose. But not for Buono, who only thinks of one person and that is himself. Shameful!!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
TheLionKing
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Hambone wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:19 pm
TheLionKing wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:47 pm
Rainey finally quit juking and jiving and trying to outrun defenders to the outside and took it up the seam.
Agreed 100%. The results were evident.
If the average fans can see the problem why can't the coaches ?
TheLionKing
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:59 pm
Hambone wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:52 pm
Somewhat surprised Fenner hasn't received some bouquets from last night. IMO he had a helluva game. Seemed to be everywhere with 7 defensive tackles and another 6 on special teams.
I agree. I mentioned him often in the game thread and noted his strong play earlier in this thread. He’s had a great season at nickelback and on special teams, and last night may have been his best game all around.
X3 He's had an outstanding season. He could easily be our nominee for Defensive Player except for a certain #56
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aklawitter
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Did Wally go into games not expecting to win?
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KnowItAll
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Blitz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:28 pm
This is not admirable behavior for a 'leader', let alone someone who calls himself a 'legend' ....
he did this??
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DanoT
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Wally needs to retire. The fans know it, the media knows it and so do the players. If Wally and his coaching staff return for 2018, the fans won't.

If major changes are not implemented in 2018 then it won't be long before there are so few fans in BC Place that at the start of the game instead of introducing the players it will be easier to just introduce the fans.
Blitz
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KnowItAll wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:15 pm
Blitz wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:28 pm
This is not admirable behavior for a 'leader', let alone someone who calls himself a 'legend' ....
he did this??
Yes, he certainly did. Read below.
Lions looking for 'new blood' after head coach Mike Benevides fired
Vancouver Sun
November 21, 2014

But that’s the situation Mike Benevides, fired on Thursday, inherited when he took over from Buono, the general manager who oversees every practice from a rooftop or cherry picker at the team’s Surrey training facility and occasionally wades into the on-field preparations.

One can’t imagine another coach, as beholden to Buono as Benevides was, accepting such working conditions without demanding a clear delineation of responsibilities. What is the message being sent to the players, with the CFL’s all-time winningest coach visible on high, a la Bear Bryant? Who’s really in charge here?

“I don’t believe he (Benevides) was always able to be himself,” said veteran cornerback Dante Marsh, who wouldn’t elaborate.

“Little Wally,” as Benevides has been known throughout his professional football life, replaced his mentor as Lions head coach on Dec. 13, 2011, when Benevides was promoted from defensive coordinator and Buono hung up his whistle. But their symbiotic relationship, the mentoring of the acolyte by the high priest of football, never abated.

On Monday, a day after the Montreal debacle, Buono told Jim Morris of CFL.ca: “I can show you five pages of notes on Hamilton (which plays Montreal in the East Division final on Sunday) I had already started working on.”

“It’s always hard to follow in the steps of a legend,” Buono explained. “Unfortunately, Mike followed me. And I thought he did a great job. He knew how to work with me. He knew the pressure he was going to be under. He knew the expectations he was going to be under. What disappointed me was that I couldn’t help Mike win a championship.

The GM talked of adding “new blood and new faces” to the organization, which virtually excludes anyone from the current Lions’ staff, including himself.

“When I got out of coaching, it was over,” Buono said. “I told Dennis (Skulsky), in an emergency, I would be there for the club. But I don’t see me, being there, as making things better for the club. I don’t think you can bring back what was.”

"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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David
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DanoT wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:15 am
Wally needs to retire. The fans know it, the media knows it and so do the players. If Wally and his coaching staff return for 2018, the fans won't.

If major changes are not implemented in 2018 then it won't be long before there are so few fans in BC Place that at the start of the game instead of introducing the players it will be easier to just introduce the fans.
Maybe so, but I have to admit the crowd size surprised me Saturday night. Here we were on a soggy night with our team on a long losing streak and eliminated from playoff contention, and there were more butts in the seats than the Hamilton and Ottawa games when we were still in contention! Not saying it was a big crowd or anything, but toward the end of the 1st quarter quite a bit larger (and more vocal) than I had expected.

The thing is too, when I take my "hardcore fan" glasses off, most people I observe at Lions games seem to be having a great time. They couldn't care less whether Wally is coaching the team or Paul LaPolice. Truthfully, if you interviewed most of them, they probably enjoy the familiarity of the white-haired guy on the sidelines with no headset. Braley owning the team? They likely don't see an issue, nor care. They just want the team to be competitive, have a good time with their friends, watch the antics on the scoreboard, and be able to cheer a TD or long punt return etc. The Lions didn't even get booed after their second consecutive epic collapse!

I am not saying light weight fans are a good thing or this is a healthy situation - just providing Monday morning observations.



DH :cool:
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cromartie
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This team needs an enema.

In all seriousness, most of the preseason talk was about how good the Lions were at the skill positions, and in the secondary. And I think that can be true.

But if you aren't good in the trenches, you aren't going to win, and there's no more stark illustration to this than when you put on tape of the Eskimos, a team with significant enough talent on both lines to thrive despite a plethora of injuries, and the Lions, who couldn't buy a pass rush all year long, along with an offensive line coach who should have stayed retired.

And this is before we get to a coaching staff that does the talent no favors, and hasn't, all season, from a pedestrian offensive gameplan to a persistently soft defensive scheme.

Blow this staff up and start over again. It's time.
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B.C.FAN
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David wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:42 am
DanoT wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:15 am
Wally needs to retire. The fans know it, the media knows it and so do the players. If Wally and his coaching staff return for 2018, the fans won't.

If major changes are not implemented in 2018 then it won't be long before there are so few fans in BC Place that at the start of the game instead of introducing the players it will be easier to just introduce the fans.
Maybe so, but I have to admit the crowd size surprised me Saturday night. Here we were on a soggy night with our team on a long losing streak and eliminated from playoff contention, and there were more butts in the seats than the Hamilton and Ottawa games when we were still in contention! Not saying it was a big crowd or anything, but toward the end of the 1st quarter quite a bit larger (and more vocal) than I had expected.

The thing is too, when I take my "hardcore fan" glasses off, most people I observe at Lions games seem to be having a great time. They couldn't care less whether Wally is coaching the team or Paul LaPolice. Truthfully, if you interviewed most of them, they probably enjoy the familiarity of the white-haired guy on the sidelines with no headset. Braley owning the team? They likely don't see an issue, nor care. They just want the team to be competitive, have a good time with their friends, watch the antics on the scoreboard, and be able to cheer a TD or long punt return etc. The Lions didn't even get booed after their second consecutive epic collapse!

I am not saying light weight fans are a good thing or this is a healthy situation - just providing Monday morning observations.



DH :cool:
David, the fans who sit near me are a purrfect illustration of your point. Most have had the same season tickets for 20 years, yet they don’t seem to follow the team in the media or know much about the players or coaches and don’t analyze the game in any detail. They’re just there to be entertained, exchange high-fives after touchdowns and grumble occasionally about the officiating, like most casual fans. I’m the only one who grumbles out loud about blown assignments, poor reads, telegraphed play-calls and bad personnel matchups. No one ever comments or questions me. They just don’t care about those details.
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David
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I agree B.C.FAN. The long time season ticket holders around me are fine people. Just not passionately invested. This doesn't make them worse fans, just a different type. My buddy and I are the vocal ones and provide a running commentary throughout on who the ball is going to, who's injured, match-ups etc. In fact, there are 4 guys to my right who grew up together in East Van and have been going to Lions games since the late 60's! Yet if I gave them a pop quiz on the 2017 BC Lions, they'd maybe score 50% (collectively).

The point is, we hardcores tend to get swept up in the collective hysteria of this board and the hard times befallen this franchise. Yet if one was to attend games as an impartial observer, I'm saying the picture is not quite as dire as we make it out to be. Don't get me wrong, the Lions have their work cut out cultivating new fans to pay money to attend, as well as re-awakening the passion in this market that's virtually non-existent. But you'll likely have a hard time finding someone experiencing a football game for the first time saying "I hated the experience and I am never going back!" or a long time season ticket holder saying "that's it, I'm done!"


DH :cool:
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Sir Purrcival
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I would agree with that but the hysteria does serve as somewhat of a barometer of the overall health of the fan base. If we hardcore fans are screaming blue murder and we represent the most steady part of the revenue stream then, there is trouble in the kitchen. One conclusion that I have come to is that long time fans understand that every team has it's ups an downs, it is when the downs become too prevalent that the trouble starts. Now your casual fan comes because they were curious, someone gave them tickets, they were with a group etc. etc. etc. If you want any hope of converting those types into long term fans, winning games goes a long way to making them think of the game as a fun time. When the home team is known for choking when it counts, it casts a pall over the evening. Of course, pricey parking, expensive beer, tight seats and mediocre food don't really help. The contract has always been implied. We give you $$$ and you put a fun product and fun time on the field. Hasn't been too much of either served up at BC Place for awhile.
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B.C.FAN
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I listened to 3 Down Radio tonight on TSN 1040 and was disappointed that the hosts focused almost entirely on ownership uncertainty as the biggest problem facing the franchise, and not coaching. They questioned Wally extensively on the ownership issue and didn’t raise the issue of coaching as being the reason the team has been losing games this year. In his recap of the loss, Wally said that at the end of the game the Lions couldn’t prevent a first down and couldn't make one. No one challenged him to explain why that was the case. The coaches were too scared to challenge the Eskimos secondary at the end of the game when they needed first downs, and they were too scared of getting beaten deep to continue to play the aggressive defence that had worked well for 55 minutes so they went into a shell and played soft zone coverage that allowed the Eskimos to complate 9 straight passes, including the tying and winning touchdowns.
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