Bombers 26 - Lions 20, Post-Game Stats and Comments

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WestCoastJoe
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Blitz wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:20 pm
When Jonathan Jennings walked away from this game, at the final whistle he should have thrown up a white flag and surrendered. What punishment he took. The hits that he took in this game were incredible. It's shocking that he was able to walk away from this game let alone lead us on some late game drives. When Jennings, being tackled in the pocket in the fourth quarter, he threw the football towards a Bombers lineman, I guessed that he might be punch drunk at the time.
I think most anybody that has played a lot of sports has experienced some moments when you are kind of in shock, from a hit, or an avalanche of dominance by the other team, et cetera.
We should sit Jennings down for a couple of games and let him physically and mentally heal. He has elite tools but right now he looks like a classic case of PTSD. Its been a tough season and the physical and mental wear and tear of such poor pass protection, hits, sacks, and pressures could result in us destroying his confidence to the point that he won't recover. And as Leos fans we need him to recover.
This CFL fan has not wavered in his belief in Jonathon Jennings. Let Hufnagel and Dickenson, or June Jones, or Paul LaPolice or Marc Trestman get hold of him, and, IMO, look out. Even after the pasting he took in this game, and the poor results, that was him, JJ10, that delivered the offence and the two TD scores to Bryan Burnham.
They say that a leader has five bases of power 1) the power of positive reinforcement 2) the power of negative reinforcement 3) the formal authority of their position 4) the power of expertise and knowledge and 5) the power of their personality (without the authority of their position).
Very nice quote, Blitz. It applies across the spectrum. Business. Sports management. Coaching. Everywhere that leadership plays a part.
Our Leos, with a few strategy changes, could have defeated the Bombers today. But we had no answers for the Bombers pressure. Jennings when he had time on rare occasions and a receiver open, he made completions.
I agree. The Bombers could have been had today. They let us hang around. Our defence gave them problems. We did not get Jennings out of the gate well at the start. Where were the quick hitters? The check downs?

But it is just another loss.

Our guys definitely did not quit. They have my admiration for courage. :thup:
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Actually the score flattered the Pegs
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WestCoastJoe
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http://theprovince.com/sports/football/ ... -dark-funk

From the Willes article referenced by BCFAN.
— In the first quarter, Ty Long delivers a near purrfect 53-yard punt which Winnipeg’s Kevin Fogg fields near the boundary on his 12-yard line and returns 88 yards for a touchdown without being touched.
— The Lions take 11 penalties for 97 yards in a game where every yard is important.
“Some guys are letting the whole thing engulf them,” Buono said afterwards, referring to the seven losses in eight games the Lions have suffered.
“They’re letting the whole thing weigh them down. It’s Game No. 15. You have to play with emotion and intensity.”

He was asked how that emotion can be created.

“That’s not possible unless you feel it yourself.”
OK, that’s bad enough. But what’s more disturbing is both Buono and Bryan Burnham referenced a lack of intensity and urgency when asked about the offensive woes.

Hello. You’re in last place and in danger of missing the playoffs. How much more urgency do you need?

“It’s football,” said Buono. “It’s a game of emotion. When you step on the field, you have to turn on the juices. When they played with urgency it was totally different.”
“The defence came to play,” said Burnham, who caught two late touchdown passes.

“Offensively, we didn’t want it enough. We didn’t get serious until the end of the game. It wasn’t serious for us until there were two minutes left in the game and we’re like, oh, we’ve got to do something.”
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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DanoT
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Twice during the game Duane Forde, after watching the successful direct snap plays to JJ24, he speculated that the Lions are setting up the Bombers and then the Lions are going to a run a reverse off that play. I speculated that they wouldn't. They didn't.

In fact after having some success running the ball in the first half, the Lions only gave the ball to JJ24 4 times in the 2nd half. Where have we seen that before.?

And changing the passing launch point? Nope, not going to happen, no roll outs,. Was Jones strictly a pocket passer when he was a player? Jennings, with the O line that he has in front of him, needs to roll out, not be forced out of the pocket.
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“The defence came to play,” said Burnham, who caught two late touchdown passes [in a losing effort].
Is this 2012 or 2017 we are talking about here? :dizzy:
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B.C.FAN
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Both teams blitzed a lot and both had 2 sacks, but the similarities end there. The Bombers were credited with 12 QB pressures; the Lions with 1 (by Menard). Nichols dumped down and got the ball off, even though he threw for less than 200 yards. Jennings held on and tried to hit longer-developing plays.

The 14 combined sacks and pressures given up by Jennings equals the season high set Sept. 16 against Calgary. He has been pressured on 24.2% of dropbacks this year, which is more than Travis Lulay (21.6%) and the league average (21.2%).

The only other West Division starting QB who has taken a lot of QB pressure is Mike Reilly in Edmonton. The figures:

Matt Nichols, WPG 15.3%
Bo Levi Mitchell CAL 15.6% (backup Andrew Buckley 23.8%)
Kevin Glenn, SAS 18.6%
Mike Reilly, EDM, 22.0%

Jennings has done a better job of avoiding pressure in the second half of the season but teams still blitz him a lot because they know he doesn't respond well to pressure and tends to hold on to the ball too long. In the final 2 minutes, Jennings made lots of quick throws and completed 10 of 11 passes for 138 yards and 2 TDs. The Lions needed more of that quick passing game earlier.
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aklawitter
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Full credit to the D, they come to play even when the O is laying eggs.
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CardiacKid
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:40 pm
Both teams blitzed a lot and both had 2 sacks, but the similarities end there. The Bombers were credited with 12 QB pressures; the Lions with 1 (by Menard). Nichols dumped down and got the ball off, even though he threw for less than 200 yards. Jennings held on and tried to hit longer-developing plays.

The 14 combined sacks and pressures given up by Jennings equals the season high set Sept. 16 against Calgary. He has been pressured on 24.2% of dropbacks this year, which is more than Travis Lulay (21.6%) and the league average (21.2%).

The only other West Division starting QB who has taken a lot of QB pressure is Mike Reilly in Edmonton. The figures:

Matt Nichols, WPG 15.3%
Bo Levi Mitchell CAL 15.6% (backup Andrew Buckley 23.8%)
Kevin Glenn, SAS 18.6%
Mike Reilly, EDM, 22.0%

Jennings has done a better job of avoiding pressure in the second half of the season but teams still blitz him a lot because they know he doesn't respond well to pressure and tends to hold on to the ball too long. In the final 2 minutes, Jennings made lots of quick throws and completed 10 of 11 passes for 138 yards and 2 TDs. The Lions needed more of that quick passing game earlier.
Interesting stat regarding the pressure applied to Reilly and JJ10. Especially when Wally has come out and said he felt the Esks OLine was worse than the Leo’s.
Winnipeg’s improvement as a team begins with their vastly improved OLine. But that came about with 3 Internationals....
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B.C.FAN
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LU offers thoughts on the game, the season and Wally's plan to give playing time to practice roster players in the final weeks.
Looking ahead: if there’s any upside associated with being on the outside of the playoffs is that the Lions will eventually came in to the notion that there’s no harm in actually letting those marooned on the practice roster in playing.

As it is an unrelatable development in the Buono era, it bears noting that he does plan on unloading the bench in the event the Lions no not qualify for the playoffs. In a discussion last week, Buono mentioned players that will get into games like LB Dyshawn Davis, who has been in limbo for the better part of two seasons with only spot duty, and DL Luther Maddy. Others who have shown themselves during practice sessions: RB/WR Tyler Davis, WR Dontre Wilson, DB Kendall James and DL Joe Mathis. Recreating a pre-season scenario may be small comfort in a season which has gone off the rails, but it’s about the only hope the Lions can offer at the moment.
Truly offensive: Lions on life support
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mountaincat
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at this point pretty much our only hope to not miss the playoffs for the first time in 20 yrs is if the lions coaches have an epic prayer circle to their beloved god and they better hope he hasn't tuned them out as much as their players have.

you really have to wonder how much the pastor wally side of things has inculcated a culture of groupthink/unquestioning obedience or is it just blind faith at this point. every good christian knows that humility is a virtue and to gloss one's self a legend is a pretty hypocritical thing for one to do. to me this goes back to blitz's point about leadership via mere formal authority vs leadership via one's actual character.

you also have to wonder if the amount of time someone like dorazio spends at church distracts from his coaching work, as workaholic though he may be, according to a 2012 article he "thirsts for mass" and attends multiple churches, 2--3 days a week, and is about as involved in the services as a non-ordained person can be, as a lector and minister of communion.

signed,
--an atheist who doesn't think "faith" or "family" necessarily have anything to do with football
"I thirst for Mass," he said. "What a peace that comes over you amidst all the pressures of the day and life and to know that He's there listening."
Dorazio said his "thirst" to attend daily Mass came after he went to an Ash Wednesday service in 2003. He said the priest challenged parishioners to do something different for Lent during his homily.

"What I had never done before was try to go to Mass every day of my life," Dorazio said. He believes the message was from the Holy Spirit. "Since then my attitude is 'I'm not missing Mass. I'm going to be there if I can do it.'"

The next year he felt a similar call and vowed to pray the rosary every day. -- https://web.archive.org/web/20170104020 ... a-football
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mountaincat
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DanoT wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:49 pm
Was Jones strictly a pocket passer when he was a player?
it's been quite a while but i do seem to recall him as a pocket passer who relied heavily on the deep ball to receivers like milt stegall especially.

he put up a lot of yards and threw plenty of TDs but also plenty of INTs, and his completion percentage and passer rating were rarely above average in his halcyon days back in the peg.
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WestCoastJoe
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From Lowell Ullrich ...

http://3downnation.com/2017/10/15/truly ... e-support/
“It’s not real. We’re way too good to be going two and out and throwing our defence out there,” said Burnham, who buried his head in a towel on the sidelines as the final seconds of the latest loss wound down.

“I don’t know what else to say. It’s disappointing and we don’t have an answer. We put up (20) points. That’s terrible. We got too many weapons not to be putting up points.”
“Honestly, this is kind of like you’re building for the future,” said Buono, trying to sound like the future could start against Edmonton Saturday but also confirming his team’s death row status, before addressing another problem evident with this team for a very long time.

“How about if there’s a great sense of urgency from our whole team? When we played with a sense of urgency, it was a totally different game. When there was a sense of do or die it was different .The urgency has to be in where we’re at. Obviously it’s easy to get down on yourself. It’s easy to feel sorry for yourself but we’re all men who play an emotional game.”

A lack of urgency on a team about to have a 20-year playoff streak snapped? What exactly does it take for a team to generate urgency with that kind of history is on the line?

“That’s not possible unless you feel it yourself,” said Buono, who admits he didn’t become the winningest coach in league history on the strength of his pre-game speeches. “Some guys are, well, maybe, afraid in the sense that they’re letting the whole thing engulf them and weigh them down.”
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Blitz
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Well, it was a treat to listen to Wally's post game comments and not hear that our Leos didn't 'execute'.

Instead, this time our players didn't play with enough 'urgency'. And of course the 'proof' was that we played better at the end of the game because we played with urgency.

Of course, its just another version of Wally's blame game....of 'blame it on the players' but with a new strategy.

I wish our coaching staff had coached with some sense of urgency. When the Bombers zone blitzes were creating havoc for most of the game, where was the sense of urgency from our coaching staff to make adaptions to our offensive game plan.

As Duane Forde said during the game, when the defensive halfback is up on the line of scrimmage and not covering his receiver, there has to be an adaption. Either the receiver comes in to block or the receiver runs a quick anti-blitz hot read pattern. Neither happened...all game.

While I never jumped on the Buono band wagon, was unhappy when Buono let Stubler and Chapdelaine go, was never happy about his choices of Jones and Washington as our coordinators, and bemoaned the Olifioye trade, I still never antiicpated this season going as badly as this.

I'm not going to lay all the blame for yesterday's offensive performance on Khari Jones. I blamed Chap for too many seasons for offensive woes at times but learned that no matter who our offensive coordinator was, he was going to have to run Wally's offensive scheme and deal with Dorazio's offensive line coaching.

Chapdelaine, Jones, Cortez, and Jones again, and its the same old script. In fact, Chap did the best of the works of them with that same old script.

When the players are not being blamed, and especially the quarterback, then the assistant coaches are wearing the heat.

Jonathan Jennings proved, over the course of 18 games last season, that he is a quarterback with elite tools.

In 2015, as a raw rookie, Jennings started the last six games of the season for our Leos. He threw for an average of more than 334 yards oer game, completed 66% of his passes, threw 15 touchdown passes, and had a 98.9 quarterback efficiency average.

In his first full season as a starter last year, Jennings had 5,226 yds in passing (third most in Leos history - only Flutie and Dickenson had thrown for more yards in a single season and only once), had a 67% completion average, threw 27 touchdown passes, and had a quarterback efficiency average of 102.2.

This season Jonathan Jennings had completed 63.7% of his passes before the Bombers game. He had the second worst touchdown to interception rate in the CFL (4.1) second only to Travis Lulay (4.2). Jennings quarterback efficiency average is only 81.0.

How can one explain the drop off in play. The notion that Jennings locks onto Manny and Burnham and doesn't get rid of the football quickly enough doesn't explain it fully. Manny and Burnham run long developing routes but they did last season as well and Jennings looked to them often last year too.

Its not that defenses are playing us differently. Plus we have Chris Williams, who was supposedly signed here to provide a third threat that we didn't have for most of last season to help take away any defensive focus on Manny and Burnham. Plus we went with Shaq Johnson as a National starter, a speedster, to also help reduce defensive focus on Manny and Burnham.

No, the answer is much more than that. The problem this season is that 1) we are not running the football as often 2) our receivers are too well covered too often 3) our pass blocking is horrendous 4) Jennings, from Game 1 has been under severe duress in the pocket and taken way too many sacks, hits, pressures, and also been put under a lot of pressure to execute a bad offensive scheme at a high level, and as time has gone on, those have added up to take on a mental and physical toll 5) Jennings has been injured twice this season.

I refuse to buy Wally's Cool Aid that this is on the players for a lack of execution or a lack of urgency. I refuse to just lay this on Jones and Washington because they are 'executing' Wally's systems and philosophy.

While Khari Jones should have some onus of responsibility laid on him, Jones is not the guy who traded Olifioye. He is not the guy who hired Dorazio as his offensive line coach. He is not the coordinator who draws up the running game or the pass blocking design. Its not Khari Jones offensive scheme that is being run out there.

As for Mark Washington, he also bears some responsibility for this season too. But its also not his scheme. He was not the guy who got Bighill to take a pay cut that allowed him to leave for the NFL this season nor is he the guy who didn't bring in a solid pass rusher. The conservative zone scheme he runs is a Wally philosophy.

No, the onus is on Wally, no matter how skillfully he deflects elsewhere.

Here is a question for Wally. If our players are 'not executing' and other teams players are executing much better than our Leos players ...is it because their HC's selected players who execute better or is it because their Head Coaches get their players to execute better?

Is it their GM's who select players who play with more urgency or is it their Head Coaches who get their players to play with more urgency?

One of the problems with this Leos team is that they almost appear to be brainwashed by Wally. Every game, prior to or after, they repeat the mantra "We gotta execute" or "We didn't execute' after a loss.

The script changed after this game. Buono said our Leos didn't play with enough 'urgency' and players were repeating the mantra ad nauseum "We didn't play with enough urgency".

Sometimes it sounds like I am listening to a Moonie or Jamestown convert, only that the topic is football, rather than individuals who have their own minds and speak their own thoughts.

Blame players enough and they lost their confidence. Its a slow slide.

Well, its a good thing to get away from the topic of 'execution' and focus now on the topic of 'urgency'.

Where was the sense of 'urgency' this off-season, to bring in a pass rushing end? Why was there such a lack of 'urgency' going into this season regarding trading away our very best offensive lineman for the past 7 seasons and one of the CFL's very best during that time period, when any wise Head Coach knows how important offensive line play is to both the running and passing game?

Why was there no sense of urgency from our coaching staff, during our losing streak and two bye weeks, to make some key strategic changes? Why was our offence not adapted to deal with our terrible pass blocking?

What did we get instead? A new running play for the Bombers game was our biggest innovation...a direct snap to Johnson..which worked because it was the first time this season we attacked the edge but to use it 5 times in a row, without running the reverse off it, showed our lack of offensive sophistication.

The route running in our passing attack is another area that is a big problem. Most of our routes to Manny and Burnham are way too long. The interception on the pass to Manny yesterday was an example of a bad route. No sharp break on the pattern. A lazy out that looked more like a skinny corner route, with no push on the stem first. It was a defenders dream. Same pattern by Williams was almost picked off.

Ever notice that our receivers are usually well covered most of the time, even when we make completions, in comparison to other CFL offences? Our passing game requires a very high level of execution. It usually requires a difficult pass with high velocity and high accuracy and the receiver is usually well covered and needs to make an excellent catch. That describes a typical Leos reception - just ask Bryan Burnham.

So throw in bad pass protection and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why our offence has struggled at various times this season. When pass protection was better, as it was against Hamilton and Ottawa, we threw for 720 yards.

But teams like Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg yesterday, get into our backfield very quickly when rushing the passer. There were so many times yesterday that Jennings didn't have two seconds to throw. Zone blitzes gave defenders clear routes to the quarterback. It was merciless. It was cruel but there is no empathy in a football game from defenders taking repeated shots at a quarterback.

But there has to be some sense of urgency from the sidelines when you see your starting quarterback and your future taking a beating like Jennings took yesterday. But there was none. Just let him be a human pinanta and blame him and others for the lack of urgency instead.

We didn't 'execute' better at the end of the game yesterday on offence because we had a greater sense of urgency. The Bombers defense played more passively with the lead, not wanting to give up a quick touchdown. Jennings had more time to throw, as the Bombers mostly stopped zone blitzing. With more time to throw, Jennings was able to make completions.

I am so sick of the b.s. being thrown out since our losing streak began as to what ails this team.

Wise Lionbackers know what ails this team and have for many, many games this season. Thankfully at leat on this website, there is a sense of reality and not the distortion that we are being told to believe.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
don corleone
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Typical of the Bombers season. Another 2 points that they were fortunate to get. Not as good as their record would imply.
Thought Chris Williams had his best game of the year. Manny showed up as well. Surprised JJ24 is not used for outlet type pass options. The direct snap was kind of tricky the first time but got old fast.
Lions had the more talented team yesterday but did not win. Could be the story of their season.
don corleone
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Attendance was no where near the announced 26,400. > 20,000 would be closer.
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