Is Wally Staying around in 2018?

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DanoT
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:57 am

The biggest selling feature for the sale of the Lions is that as far as revenue goes, there is nowhere to go but up. However this has to be reflected in the asking price but I suspect that Braley is asking way too much, is inflexible, and has no real pressure to do a quick deal. :wag:

maxlion
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:44 am

DanoT wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:57 am
The biggest selling feature for the sale of the Lions is that as far as revenue goes, there is nowhere to go but up.
I'm not that optimistic. I predict lower attendance and lower TV numbers and more hard times to come for the league over the next decade. A few challenges off the top of my head:
  • Lions need to re-build their brand. This will take time.
    Lions have been fairly successful for many years. A few losing seasons could be trouble.
    TV and other traditional media is dying. What will happen to broadcast revenue?
    Attendance at sporting events seems to be in decline across the board.
    Football is anachronistic in a global world. Soccer is the true global sport (just my opinion even though I prefer football).
    Research on concussions is going to force certain sports, including and especially football, to make significant changes to the game.

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The_Pauser
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:47 am

B.C.FAN wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:14 pm
It's easy to gripe about the play-calling but modern offences give the quarterback wide latitude to read the defence pre- and post-snap and distribute the ball accordingly. This is where the Lions have struggled at times this year with Jennings at quarterback. I've recently cited stats that the B.C. offence ranked first in the league by a wide margin with Lulay at QB but seventh with Jennings at the controls. It all comes down to the play of the quarterback.
Absolutely agree. It's frustrating to see certain people with an anti-Wally agenda chock this up to Lulay working miracles. He's simply reading the defenses better and playing better. Jennings has not looked good at all this season, pre or post injury. Now I think there is some legitimate gripe with some of the play-calling. Abandoning the running game, and with how they're using Rainey. But I think a lot of our offensive woes can be attributed to two major issues: 1) Our QB hasn't been good enough, and 2) We probably have the worst offensive line in the league.

You can blame Wally for his construction of the roster, because that falls under his job description as GM, but to start blaming Wally for the play calls when it's even been reported that Jones has full autonomy calling the plays is ridiculous.
THINK about it

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David
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:06 am

maxlion wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:44 am
I'm not that optimistic. I predict lower attendance and lower TV numbers and more hard times to come for the league over the next decade. A few challenges off the top of my head:
  • Lions need to re-build their brand. This will take time.
    Lions have been fairly successful for many years. A few losing seasons could be trouble.
    TV and other traditional media is dying. What will happen to broadcast revenue?
    Attendance at sporting events seems to be in decline across the board.
    Football is anachronistic in a global world. Soccer is the true global sport (just my opinion even though I prefer football).
    Research on concussions is going to force certain sports, including and especially football, to make significant changes to the game.
Tough to argue a single point, maxlion.

It's hard to believe the Leos can be in attendance free fall without experiencing a single truly wretched season in years. That's the worrisome part. At worst, they've merely swayed between mediocre and disappointing, with some playoff blowouts mixed in there for good measure.

I think only a radical, across-the-board price adjustment can fix it - something we'll never see under Braley.


DH :cool:
Please sell the team, Mr. Braley.

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Sir Purrcival
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:01 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:47 am
You can blame Wally for his construction of the roster, because that falls under his job description as GM, but to start blaming Wally for the play calls when it's even been reported that Jones has full autonomy calling the plays is ridiculous.
To be fair, I don't think that many posters push come to shove, think that Wally is responsible for every bad play called during a game. Where he gets the real heat is in his choosing of staff that seem to be neither innovative or have enough back bone to challenge Wally's basic philosophy when it comes to football. Execution is a two way street. He talks about it enough in regards to the players but where are the results that you expect from a top tier coaching squad? How many times to you have to be down in the Sack totals, or up in the Sacks against, or points against before you start looking beyond just the players? And the frustrating part most of all is that he doesn't seem to apply the criticism evenly across the board.

This team is stale, it has been stale and will continue to be stale under Wally Buono. This isn't a hiccup or even new. By the time he left Calgary, there were many of the same rumblings there that are here currently. Many of the expectations Stamps fans had with him went unfulfilled.
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leo4life
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:38 pm

Wally and staff need to rewatch the Stamps/Als beatdown.Coaching and a good game plan by Dave D once again.Claybrooks rumored for a HC gig next season.If Wally can fire proven cordinaters like Chap & Stubler how can he consider promoting a Jones or Washinton to HC when they remain unproven in big games

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Toppy Vann
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Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:12 am

maxlion wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:57 pm
Although I have generally been supportive of Wally as coach and GM, and certainly don't hold him responsible for the declining attendance, I don't feel that himstaying on for another year in any capacity would be beneficial to anyone. It's time for Braley to make a move and get this franchise in the hands of someone with longer term vision and planning. Part of the new ownership's job should be bringing in new staff and management. Dragging this on year after year is very detrimental to the team.
I'm fully with the crowd that says 'be careful what you wish for' as change isn't always done well. Remember the disaster Joe Galat was in BC both with players and fans alike. Lui was a casualty. Life long Lion nearly left the fold. Someone mentioned Ed Hervey and he's as toxic in the community and in the media as was Canuck types - Mike Keenan and John Tortorella.

What new GM would come to a team where he arrives at Surrey for the interviews and sees a "For Sale" sign up? Not one that's likely to be as good as the one in Ottawa who has done it right both on the field and in the community.

David Braley is loyal to Wally so that won't change and end of season is no time to make a major change or even new hiring unless it's someone local replacing Skulsky who knows it's a short term gig just working to engage fans again.

While Braley's nowhere near an owner who thinks like many fans have that "Wally knows best," he is in no position to go out and hire a new GM and HC (unless the GM is from within) and Wally staying on advisor.

The dilemma for me is that Wally doesn't seem to have a process to hire a HC and given that if he's hiring the Lions a new HC properly, it'd be his first time doing so and the risk of that is great. Likely see Mark Washington as HC. Not sure he's the right one as I don't see the HC type of character.

The ONLY next HC in the CFL ranks now that I see would be Paul LaPolice - OC for the Bombers.

BUT - before he's hired as HC he really needs to be interviewed as to how he sees the role as he got into trouble in Wpg (not just with an idiot GM Joe Mack) but his then stubbornness in how he did too much as a coach versus ensuring his assistants were fully engaged. If he reverted to that form, he'd fail again eventually.

However, he's no doubt learned.

First and foremost the team has to know what a new HC sees as his role. If it's a one band coming - watch out.

What kind of assistants (and who would he want) and how they'll be used. Can he at[/list]tract top coaches?

What he views as the challenge given the roster he is inheriting.

Just a few of the things a GM has to have on his list.

I'd even advise him to use a Canadian firm's psychometric assessments (less than $100) to benchmark the candidate against other proven leaders in the key dimensions of leadership. The Self Management Group out of Toronto have world class products that sell at bargain basement prices.

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Toppy Vann
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Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:30 am

Sir Purrcival wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:01 pm
The_Pauser wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:47 am
You can blame Wally for his construction of the roster, because that falls under his job description as GM, but to start blaming Wally for the play calls when it's even been reported that Jones has full autonomy calling the plays is ridiculous.
To be fair, I don't think that many posters push come to shove, think that Wally is responsible for every bad play called during a game. Where he gets the real heat is in his choosing of staff that seem to be neither innovative or have enough back bone to challenge Wally's basic philosophy when it comes to football. Execution is a two way street. He talks about it enough in regards to the players but where are the results that you expect from a top tier coaching squad? How many times to you have to be down in the Sack totals, or up in the Sacks against, or points against before you start looking beyond just the players? And the frustrating part most of all is that he doesn't seem to apply the criticism evenly across the board.

This team is stale, it has been stale and will continue to be stale under Wally Buono. This isn't a hiccup or even new. By the time he left Calgary, there were many of the same rumblings there that are here currently. Many of the expectations Stamps fans had with him went unfulfilled.
Wally has the most wins of any HC in the CFL bar none and he brings credibility and stability to the Lions that when not present kills franchises. Just look at the debacle in Montreal now.

I do believe Wally - if he picks a top new HC - can fix the on field product which has suffered due to QB injuries and Jennings not yet back fully on his game. We'd not been on this topic of Wally's future today if not for the QB injuries. If I were Braley I'd be tasking the GM Wally to do just that but ensuring he's got the process right.

I don't agree that Wally as GM doesn't let go but it's a simple story line to explain.
He just picked a HC (MB) who wasn't ready then followed up with a HC who no one thought would fail - but he did and then himself as HC - who at least knows what a HC has to do to be successful!!!

I don't agree that the HC is not responsible for the schemes on both sides of the ball nor overseeing game plans to make sure that they're consistent with what he sees are each opponents vulnerabilities and strengths. That's like saying the CEO can't be held responsible for the Marketing division's marketing initiatives that fail.

The HC picks the assistants like a CEO picks his group leadership team and is accountable for what they do or don't do. Assistants don't get "autonomy" to call whatever they like. The HC - if he's doing his job - knows what plays they have for every spot on the field and every down and distance and point of the game and he needs to know that his play caller is not getting into a rut. If the play book is devoid of creativity that's on the HC. Similarly the same scenario plays out with the DC.

As Blitz can attest, HC's who feel their offense is stale will consult others even secretively off season to get input into what they're missing or what they could add that aids effectiveness.

If the team is stale it's due to being the team that's easiest to game play for as Wally hasn't much changed his philosophy and that translates into his coaches and what they do.

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The_Pauser
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Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:12 pm

Sir Purrcival wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:01 pm

To be fair, I don't think that many posters push come to shove, think that Wally is responsible for every bad play called during a game. Where he gets the real heat is in his choosing of staff that seem to be neither innovative or have enough back bone to challenge Wally's basic philosophy when it comes to football. Execution is a two way street. He talks about it enough in regards to the players but where are the results that you expect from a top tier coaching squad? How many times to you have to be down in the Sack totals, or up in the Sacks against, or points against before you start looking beyond just the players? And the frustrating part most of all is that he doesn't seem to apply the criticism evenly across the board.

This team is stale, it has been stale and will continue to be stale under Wally Buono. This isn't a hiccup or even new. By the time he left Calgary, there were many of the same rumblings there that are here currently. Many of the expectations Stamps fans had with him went unfulfilled.
I agree with you about our coaching staff, and that does fall under his responsibilities as well. My biggest beef is with the unwavering loyalty to Dan Dorazio. He's just been awful here as our O-line coach. Wasn't good enough on a bad Saskatchewan team the one year he was away from us, so Wally replaces Malone who coached the top O-line in the league with Dorazio who coached the worst O-line in the league. And guess what? Now we have the worst O-line in the league.

I also agree with your point about Wally being stale. I think that's something that's natural across all sports when a coach has been with a team as long as Wally has with us. That being said, look what happened to Calgary after he left:

2003: 5-13
2004: 4-14

A combined 9-27 record. Can this market handle that?
THINK about it

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Sir Purrcival
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Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:48 am

We aren't far off that now and if I recall correctly, they had Marcus "Awful" Crandell who as a QB who managed to fluke out a GC win in 2001 and then with great expectation afterwards proceeded to be miserable. They also had a season of Jim Barker (not impressed with him either) and Matt Dunnigan (who I thought should have had another shot). The situation was a poster for how not to make changes to be sure. Hopefully new ownership would be smarter than that but at the end of the day, losing is still losing. 4-14, 5-13, 8-10 with a quick exit from the playoffs? What's the difference. It is still bad football
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B.C.FAN
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Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:45 pm

Wally addressed questions about his future during his weekly appearance on 3 Down Radio Monday night on TSN 1040. I missed the interview but Matt Baker quotes from it at bclions.com:
On his future with the organization beyond this season: “I told (Owner) David (Braley) and anybody that has asked that I committed in 2017 to coach. I do have a contract beyond that and I really don’t know the next step until after the season is over. I think that is the most honest answer I can give you and it is the most consistent answer, I believe, that I have put out there. My wife tells me if we’re really really really close: ‘Wally, I just don’t see you not coming back.’ And I have said the same thing. I don’t want to be coaching this football club if I am not 100 percent committed.”

Listen to the entire Buono interview, including his plans for tweaking the practice routine, HERE!
"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy

B.C.FAN
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Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:02 pm

I caught the second hour of 3 Down Radio tonight, which included discussion of a couple of interesting topics.

1. Who would be the best candidate to replace Wally as coach?
Farhan Lalji said hands-down it would be Paul LaPolice (I agree), and that Mark Washington would be considered if they decided to hire internally.

2. What is the biggest issue facing the Lions right now? (This is also a live poll question on TSN 1040. The results so far are interesting.)
"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy

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Toppy Vann
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Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:13 pm

I was shocked (but I agree with him ) at how Farhan described Kavis Reed as having written the book on How Not to be a General Manager!

I thought they were giving sort of lip service to Mark W as a potential BC HC as they didn't have specifics - more like he'd been here a long time and could handle the media and another idea or two.

leo4life
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Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:32 pm

Bouno Jones & Washington all noted on 3rd Down Nation that what they are running scheme wise is just not working.Khari:We have to look at doing things differently
Washington:Same old same old wont get it done...see what changes come out the bye week but i dont see them changing much now

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David
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Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:26 pm

I hate to sound like a supreme pessimist, but if we lose to Ottawa, I think we're going to struggle to win another game, save for maybe the last one where Toronto will be resting some starters for the playoffs. I just think that if we go 6-8 and then walk into a hornet's nest at IGF (where Bombers will be seeking payback) the following week, it's going to get real ugly here and the grumbling between the locker room walls will become louder.

Saturday game therefore becomes pivotal.


DH :cool:
Please sell the team, Mr. Braley.

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