Leos/Eskimos Post Game Thoughts

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Blitz
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:21 am
I like those quotes, Blitz.

Points well made.

The most pleasant surprise I could have this season is if Wally made the big adaptation. Modern day football. Detailed game planning, fresh, against each opponent's tendencies. Self scouting in detail. Deception. I am sure Mark and Khari can do it. Turn them loose.

Another faint hope: aggressive, attacking defence.

Another faint hope. OL that show their natural talent, intelligence and pedigree. Confidence. Not remade players in someone's design, preoccupied with minutiae of new technique, confidence gone. These guys were highly rated and successful in college for good reason. They were not, and are not, no talent bums.

A coach, or parent, can take a basketball shooter, a baseball pitcher, a boxer, a golfer, an O Lineman, and overload them to the point that they lose confidence, over-coached. If the athletes trust the coach, and if the coach tries to remake them as he wishes, the athletes can be messed up quickly.

In a discussion, Jack Nicklaus once said: "If you want to mess up a golfer, ask him where the head of his club is at the top of the backswing." Some coaches try to remake athletes. Break them down. Rebuild them in the design favoured by the coach. Many of us have seen it in sports.

Not saying it happens on the Lions, but when a series of athletes come out of college with confidence and credentials, and lose it over time in the pros, one wonders. When they seem to regress. When they seem confused. And it happens repeatedly. Different athletes respond in different ways to different coaches. What works for some might not work for others. Can we get it going? Sure. We have seen it before.

Henry Jordan of the Packers said Lombardi "treated them all the same, like dogs." But it wasn't true. Some athletes, like Jerry Kramer, could prosper under hard, verbal criticism. He certainly didn't like it, it hurt, but he needed pushing. It gave him doubts, but then praise from Lombardi would fill him up, ready to go. Others, like Bart Starr, would not do well with that approach. They got different treatment.

But so many awards, et cetera. IMO all we have to do is watch the play, with the sum total of our experience. Could anybody on here do better? Not saying that. Not saying it is easy. Can we observe and evaluate? Sure. That is a big part of pro sports. The arm chair quarterbacks watch the players and coaches, those that go for the glory, and become targets for judgment.

It is what it is, and we love the Lions.

Just IMO ...
An unpredictable offence and an aggressive defence. Now that sounds like you are talking about Calgary's offence (and defence) or Winnipeg or Montreal's defence.

Offensively, if I can predict the majority of plays that we will run in a game, opposing defensive coordinators, with the advantage of stop and freeze video, can really pre-scout our offence well.

In the NFL, Bill Bellchick is considered the best and perhaps the best of all time. Each season, he has a different style of offence. He changes from season to season, from a predominant power offence to a spread offences to a double tight end offence, to isolating his tight end as a wide out etc. He is always ahead of the curve rather than being a copy cat. He leads.

The New England Patriots offence is also considered the most difficult to game plan for because like Forest Gump's box of chocolates, "you never know what you are going to get".

Bill Belichick is the complete opposite of a 'plug and play' coach like Buono. He doesn't have a system in which his players must adapt to. He develops his systems to the talents of his players.

We're also a plug and play defense. The only times we weren't were when Ritchie and Stubler were here, although we mostly played zone with Stubler too.

We could have the best man defender ever (we did in Korey Banks) and he will be playing zone defense exclusively, as Banks was forced to do when he came here. We would never match up our best defender man on man or press man against a team's best receiver.

When you are talking about the Mad Scientist, there is no question that Dorazio knows how to coach individual line play. He is a micromanager when it comes to technique. In general, that is a positive, when it comes to zone blocking for the run, because zone run blocking is very specific, for example, in terms of footwork.

But Dorazio's offensive line have been notoriously bad for pass protection pickup and blitz pickup. In his first long stint with our Leos, we gave up more quarterback sacks in the CFL during a 10 year time period than any other CFL team, even though we often had mobile quarterbacks and good offensive linemen in comparison to many other CFL teams.

But compounding that problem is that, except for the 2007 season, most of the 2011 season, and the 2012 season, we've basically run the same spread offence since 2005.

Here is a question for you WCJ. Do we have to line up Manny as our inside slotback, mostly left, every single play in the five receiver set. Do we need to do the same with Burnham on the other side? We'll hear that the opposition doubled Manny or Burnham but what did we do to get them single coverage? Its much easier to double cover with a defensive halfback and a safety when they are lined up in the slot.

For example, on some plays we could isolate Manny wide on the boundary side, against a short corner, but we don't. Even Chap, in his bad days of Chap Ball, would move Simon around to try to get him away from double coverage.

Another example of adapting an offence to personell in the future, on first down, would be to have both Jeremiah Johnson and Rainey in the game. We could line up both Rainey and Chris Wiliams on the left and Manny and Burnham and Iannuzzi right and the defence could pick their poison but its unlikely we will ever see that.

Another example of offensive predictability is that, in our last game, every time that Lumbala was in the game and lined up in a single back formation we passed the football on first down. They Eskimos knew and I know that Lumbala would not be running the football. He would be pass blocking. Therefore the Edmonton defensive line could tee off for their pass rush without having to worry about the run and the linebackers could focus on pass coverage or a blitz without a concern that we would have called a running play. Its mind boggling that we do some of the things that we do.

When you look at most CFL defenses these days, they are not in zone exclusively. There was a time in the CFL that you could get away with that but not anymore. Most CFL quarterbacks these days were developed in spread offences in college. Give them time to throw and they can pick apart most zone defenses.

Most receivers have also been developed in college in spread offences. They know how to find the gaps and seams in zones and also how to sit down in zone areas rather than just keep running into the next zone.

Most CFL coordinators run combination man/zone coverages and they also switch up from zone to man and back, depending on game situations. You'll sometimes see press man coverage as well as dropping nine into coverage as well as numerous disguised blitzes.

We went into the West Division Final last season mostly playing straight up zone, as the Stamps knew we would, and Bo Levi Mitchell, well prepared by Huff and Dickenson and with time to throw, sliced our defence up like he was cutting a tomato. They also knew that Manny and Burnham would be in the tight slots and they double covered the favored deep dig intermediate routes we like to throw to them. Game over, almost before it started and no amount of execution by our players was going to change the outcome.

Yesterday Ricky Ray came out against a talented Hamilton defense and picked them apart for the most yardage he has ever thrown in his career. Did Ricky Ray just suddenly improve his 'execution' over previous seasons. Nope! He was in Mark Trestmann's modified West Coast offence he's used successfully in the CFL, that adapts to its personnel, uses multiple formations, favors quicker throws, and can take advantage of certain coverages.

When we are talking about aggressive defense, one factor for successful defense that has become essential for defensive success is an inside pass rush and penetration against the spread offence. However, most of the focus, for 2017, for our defensive line, has been who will line up at defensive end.

The reality is that most CFL quarterbacks these days and for quite a long while now are mostly throwing from the pocket. You don't see the bootlegs and semi-boots and sprint outs like the 'good ol days'. Therefore, getting an inside pass rush from the tackle position is critical. You have to use formation and stunts inside at times to help get that inside penetration but we just play our defensive tackles and defensive ends mostly straight up and also don't often blitz inside.

Sometimes Buono's thinkin baffles me. II heard Buono say that he wanted to go with his best athletes on defense for the home opener and he also wanted to reward the training camp play of Chandler Fenner.

But you don't move Purifoy to safety with one week of practice when Purifoy had only played spot duty there in one formation last season. You don't move Thompson to corner with only a week of training camp practice and playing part of an exhibition game, when he has not played the position.

But when Wally gets something in his head it can be hard to change. Other example of this type of thinking includes trying to make a defensive end out of Westerman and a defensive tackle out of Roh.

It seems more logical to me that Buono would start Parker at corner, Purifoy at nickel, Clarke at safety, and use Fenner as a dime back to reward his training camp play for the home opener.

He could have rotated in Thompson at corner and given Purifoy more practice time at safety before he made that move, if that was the way he wanted to go. Winning the home opener is important. You want to excite the crowd, increase fan interest, and get the team off to a good start to the season.

But the defensive changes we made for our first game (which may prove to be positive in the longer run ...or not) were not only the reason we lost.

The major reason we lost is that we basically did the same things as we did last season, both on offence and defence. Therefore we were easier to defend and more exploitable on defence.

Predictablility has been called 'the cousin of death". Our Leos, as well as the Stamps, during Buono's tenure have often died slow psychological deaths in the playoffs. Buono has won the West 13 times as a Head Coach and most often those teams were rated the best in the CFL. Yet more often than not, by a wide margin, those teams lost in the playoffs.

Buono's predictablility is about fear...fear of change and its also about comfort with the past and stuckness rather than innovation. Leaders are innovative. They are risk takers. Managers are conservative and status quo types.

If Buono wants to win it all in his very last season as a Head Coach he needs to step out of his old paradign. This team is too talented to be stuck in a plug and play system that enables opposition teams, with less talent, to be advantaged due to our own lack of imagination on offence and our conservatism on defense.

Hopefully there will be some changes in thinking for the Toronto game.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:51 am

You got the wrong guy, Hambone. I've made no comments on punt returns.

I will make one now. Chris Rainey might be the best, most exciting punt returner I have ever seen.
My apologies WCJ. It was Blitz. Tough to keep track of who posted what when reading these long posts and frequent long quoted replies when one is doing so from a Blackberry.
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:wag: A couple of holds from a usually errorless front four could have made a huge difference in the outcome of this Sat night game!
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WestCoastJoe
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Hambone wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:24 pm
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:51 am

You got the wrong guy, Hambone. I've made no comments on punt returns.

I will make one now. Chris Rainey might be the best, most exciting punt returner I have ever seen.
My apologies WCJ. It was Blitz. Tough to keep track of who posted what when reading these long posts and frequent long quoted replies when one is doing so from a Blackberry.
Not a problem, Hambone. I could not post, or even read, from a cell phone. I am usually on a tablet, or occasionally from the desktop.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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WestCoastJoe
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Good read, as always, Blitz.

And it seems to me that the CFL has oftentimes been ahead of the NFL in its adaptations.

Good examples of predictability and non-predictability. I am sure Khari and Mark can do it. But it is not the team's philosophy to do it that way. We are very old school. We have seen Wally adapt, but slowly and seemingly reluctantly over the years.

Belichick is a good example of thinking outside the box, and ahead of the curve. He does it with systems and with personnel. He finds gems of personnel where others do not look. Guys too small or too big, as with his receivers. He is also willing to try a guy like Randy Moss, who was tall, very fast and incredibly talented. But when Moss thought he was the key guy on the team, not Tom Brady, Moss was shipped off.

Being unpredictable is mostly about attitude. Direct snap to a running back is about as simple as it gets. Defence keying on tell tales? Add another back; run a reverse. Add a QB; run a QB draw. Mix in passes. Move the receivers around. Make the defence react and make them think. Where is my guy? What if I have to move over there, what about my assignment? We don't do it.

Good example re Lumbala. Suitor talked about it without shaming the Lions, but pointing out how the D gets an advantage from it. Everyone in the CFL knows that Rolly will not run the ball, and will catch maybe 1, 2 or 3 passes per year. So it frees up the D to blitz, or double cover or whatever they want.

Our defence is like posting magnets on a board. Here are the guys. Here are their locations. Here are their assignments.

This fan welcomes Trestman back into the CFL, although it raises the bar for other coaches considerably. He adapts. He looks for vulnerabilities. He attacks on offence.

We know that Dickenson and Hufnagel adapt and attack.

Maas seems to be doing that with his offence.

Plus the other teams have a blueprint about slowing down our offence. Put heat on JJ, usually with a four man rush (all that is needed with our shaky pass protection), double Manny and Burnie. Take away our favourite routes. JJ still does an amazing job.

Our big hogs in the O Line can run block, especially with angle blocking. They move a lot of earth. JJ24 can find holes. Our receivers can figure out how to make their routes a bit more deceptive, sell fake cuts, etc. We can still compete. But it gets harder and harder with the detailed game planning we see other teams in the CFL doing.

Defensively, if we stay with the same old, I expect teams will carve us up in the key games.

Can we win it all? The odds are against IMO. But it is possible. We make our guys go into a fight with one hand tied behind our backs.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Blitz
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:05 pm
Hambone wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:24 pm
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:51 am

You got the wrong guy, Hambone. I've made no comments on punt returns.

I will make one now. Chris Rainey might be the best, most exciting punt returner I have ever seen.
My apologies WCJ. It was Blitz. Tough to keep track of who posted what when reading these long posts and frequent long quoted replies when one is doing so from a Blackberry.

What is the comment that is being attributed to me regarding punt returns?

As for Chris Rainey I also think he is the most exciting returner ever but Gismo Williams would still be considered the greatest.
Not a problem, Hambone. I could not post, or even read, from a cell phone. I am usually on a tablet, or occasionally from the desktop.
What is the comment that is being attributed to me regarding punt returns?

As for Chris Rainey I also think he is the most exciting returner ever but Gismo Williams would still have to be considered the greatest.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:32 pm
Good read, as always, Blitz.

And it seems to me that the CFL has oftentimes been ahead of the NFL in its adaptations.

Good examples of predictability and non-predictability. I am sure Khari and Mark can do it. But it is not the team's philosophy to do it that way. We are very old school. We have seen Wally adapt, but slowly and seemingly reluctantly over the years.

Belichick is a good example of thinking outside the box, and ahead of the curve. He does it with systems and with personnel. He finds gems of personnel where others do not look. Guys too small or too big, as with his receivers. He is also willing to try a guy like Randy Moss, who was tall, very fast and incredibly talented. But when Moss thought he was the key guy on the team, not Tom Brady, Moss was shipped off.

Being unpredictable is mostly about attitude. Direct snap to a running back is about as simple as it gets. Defence keying on tell tales? Add another back; run a reverse. Add a QB; run a QB draw. Mix in passes. Move the receivers around. Make the defence react and make them think. Where is my guy? What if I have to move over there, what about my assignment? We don't do it.

Good example re Lumbala. Suitor talked about it without shaming the Lions, but pointing out how the D gets an advantage from it. Everyone in the CFL knows that Rolly will not run the ball, and will catch maybe 1, 2 or 3 passes per year. So it frees up the D to blitz, or double cover or whatever they want.

Our defence is like posting magnets on a board. Here are the guys. Here are their locations. Here are their assignments.

This fan welcomes Trestman back into the CFL, although it raises the bar for other coaches considerably. He adapts. He looks for vulnerabilities. He attacks on offence.

We know that Dickenson and Hufnagel adapt and attack.

Maas seems to be doing that with his offence.

Plus the other teams have a blueprint about slowing down our offence. Put heat on JJ, usually with a four man rush (all that is needed with our shaky pass protection), double Manny and Burnie. Take away our favourite routes. JJ still does an amazing job.

Our big hogs in the O Line can run block, especially with angle blocking. They move a lot of earth. JJ24 can find holes. Our receivers can figure out how to make their routes a bit more deceptive, sell fake cuts, etc. We can still compete. But it gets harder and harder with the detailed game planning we see other teams in the CFL doing.

Defensively, if we stay with the same old, I expect teams will carve us up in the key games.

Can we win it all? The odds are against IMO. But it is possible. We make our guys go into a fight with one hand tied behind our backs.

Just IMO ...
I look back at the Calgary/Ottawa Grey Cup game as an example of the importance of coaching and str ategy.

Calgary went into the contest not having lost a contest since their season opening loss to o,ur Leos. Had Calgary won the Grey Cup game they likely would have been considered the greatest team in CFL history.

Dave Dickenson, in his first season as a Head Coach had experienced an incredible season. Dickenson, who as a CFL quarterback, was a spread offence quarterback. That was what he knew in both Calgary and B.C.

In Calgary, in Dickenson's first season as OC, Hufnagel called the plays. In his second season Dickenson took over the controls of the offence. Initially he was a pass first, spread devotee but he evolved and changed. By 2016, as a HC and still calling the plays in Calgary, he had developed a sophisticated offence that challenged a defense inside and the edges with the run game and challenged a defence with a passing game that attacked all three layers both vertically and horizontally.

But Ottawa would go on to win the Grey Cup game because they outstrategized Calgary whereas some predictability on Calgarys' part would lead to their Grey Cup loss.

Jaime Elizondo’s came up with a brilliant offensive game plan. But Calgary had a great chance to win the game in regulation. But predictability did not allow that to happen. Dickenson sent in third string quarterback Andrew Buckley on a two yard end run and Ottawa stopped him.

Ottawa came up with an unpredictable offensive game plan and predictability likely cost the Stamps a Grey Cup win.

But Dickenson never blamed the play on a lack of execution from his players. Instead Dickenson fessed up for bad judgment and said "I regret that call".

That was admirable.

And I completely agree with you WCJ that unpredictability (or predictability) is about attitude.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
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I now understand the critical analysis regarding our net punt return average. I took the stat from cfl.ca. It doesn't reflect what happened in the game in terms of our downfield coverage.

However, our kick return coverage was definitely lacking, just from the two Edmonton big returns I remember during the game. Someone else can check on cfl.ca in terms of how many yards average we gave up on kick returns in that game.

But Hambone.... why not desist with the sarcasm...its unnecessary.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Blitz wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:06 pm
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:05 pm
Hambone wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:24 pm


My apologies WCJ. It was Blitz. Tough to keep track of who posted what when reading these long posts and frequent long quoted replies when one is doing so from a Blackberry.

What is the comment that is being attributed to me regarding punt returns?

As for Chris Rainey I also think he is the most exciting returner ever but Gismo Williams would still be considered the greatest.
Not a problem, Hambone. I could not post, or even read, from a cell phone. I am usually on a tablet, or occasionally from the desktop.
What is the comment that is being attributed to me regarding punt returns?

As for Chris Rainey I also think he is the most exciting returner ever but Gismo Williams would still have to be considered the greatest.
Blitz wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:06 pm
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:05 pm
Hambone wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:24 pm


My apologies WCJ. It was Blitz. Tough to keep track of who posted what when reading these long posts and frequent long quoted replies when one is doing so from a Blackberry.

What is the comment that is being attributed to me regarding punt returns?

As for Chris Rainey I also think he is the most exciting returner ever but Gismo Williams would still be considered the greatest.
Not a problem, Hambone. I could not post, or even read, from a cell phone. I am usually on a tablet, or occasionally from the desktop.
What is the comment that is being attributed to me regarding punt returns?

As for Chris Rainey I also think he is the most exciting returner ever but Gismo Williams would still have to be considered the greatest.
It was the reference to the Eskimos punt returns and supposed poor BC punt coverage under "The Ugly" in your original post in the thread Blitz.

But not to be undone by the bad play of the right side of our offensive line and the bad play of our secondary, our special teams also got into the act.
Long's 48.3 yd. punt average resulted in a 29.9 yd. net average. That meant we gave up an average of more than 18 yards per punt return for the game.


I found out after looking into CFL.ca stats that they factor in the 3 singles effectively deducting the 35 yard field position gained per single from Long's net. On the other 4 punts that didn't result in a rouge Edmonton amassed only 24 return yards with 19 of them coming on the first return. Save for the first return of the game coverage was actually very good.
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B.C.FAN
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Hambone wrote:
Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:42 pm
Save for the first return of the game coverage was actually very good.
Travis Lulay and Ty Long also deserve kudos for their work in coverage on back-to-back plays in the fourth quarter. Lulay made an open-field tackle to prevent Long's partly blocked convert attempt from being returned to the end zone for two Edmonton points. Then Long made a touchdown-saving play on the ensuing kickoff, showing purrfect form in taking Edmonton returner Chris Edwards out of bounds at the B.C. 49 yard line.
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You may be right that the GM position would be a stretch, but I would have welcomed Testman as a HC for many years... without Popp.

Testman is coaching a team that he has had little input in making.... we shall see how he does this year.... and even more importantly. how he does next week.... and how Wally (and other coaches) adapt to the Leo's and Argo's previous games.
cromartie wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:35 pm
Dusty wrote:
Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:51 pm

In one of my most pleasant dreams, Marc Trestman is our GM/HC..... and then I awake.....
And realize he's been a failure his entire career unless Jim Popp has come with him.

Stop it.
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It's funny. I am an advocate of continuous competition for starting positions and have been somewhat frustrated during the Wally era at how the depth chart seemed to be etched in stone over the off season and little changed following training camp and the pre-season.
So Wally, sensing perhaps a little more urgency in his final season, makes several notable changes — including 2nd-years Anthony Thompson and Shaq Johnson going from seldom being used to starters ahead of Kenyon Parker and Stephen Adekolu. The latter two showed promising flashes in regular season and playoff action last year. Should that not considerably outweigh pre-season action against mostly back-ups? It's only week one and time will tell but patience has to be thin with an 18-game schedule.
Other thoughts lingering from Saturday:
Blitz you are so right the Lions missed Olifoye and they could be in a heap of trouble if his absence is noticed that much each week. His salary was essentially given to Chris Williams giving the Lions 3 high priced receivers. Obviously we have to wait for his debut to see what the impact will be but let's hope our gunslinger QB is not continuously running for his life to get the ball to dynamic receivers.

Shawn Gore was vastly underrated and maybe that's why Wally wanted badly to add Williams. Ianuzzi is certainly servicable and versatile but Gore had been head and shoulders the Lions best national receiver for several years and I really noticed his absence Saturday. Could be physical, catch the ball in traffic and stretch defences too. Such a difference when you shift Ianuzzi inside and Johnson to his old spot where he was rarely targeted. I know he was dealing with concussion issues but it really, really hurt losing an elite national receiver still in the prime of his career.

Still think once Williams is ready the Lions will tweak the ratio to drop one of the national receiver to keep Nick Moore on the field.
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SammyGreene wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:15 am
It's funny. I am an advocate of continuous competition for starting positions and have been somewhat frustrated during the Wally era at how the depth chart seemed to be etched in stone over the off season and little changed following training camp and the pre-season.
So Wally, sensing perhaps a little more urgency in his final season, makes several notable changes — including 2nd-years Anthony Thompson and Shaq Johnson going from seldom being used to starters ahead of Kenyon Parker and Stephen Adekolu. The latter two showed promising flashes in regular season and playoff action last year. Should that not considerably outweigh pre-season action against mostly back-ups? It's only week one and time will tell but patience has to be thin with an 18-game schedule.
Other thoughts lingering from Saturday:
Blitz you are so right the Lions missed Olifoye and they could be in a heap of trouble if his absence is noticed that much each week. His salary was essentially given to Chris Williams giving the Lions 3 high priced receivers. Obviously we have to wait for his debut to see what the impact will be but let's hope our gunslinger QB is not continuously running for his life to get the ball to dynamic receivers.

Shawn Gore was vastly underrated and maybe that's why Wally wanted badly to add Williams. Ianuzzi is certainly servicable and versatile but Gore had been head and shoulders the Lions best national receiver for several years and I really noticed his absence Saturday. Could be physical, catch the ball in traffic and stretch defences too. Such a difference when you shift Ianuzzi inside and Johnson to his old spot where he was rarely targeted. I know he was dealing with concussion issues but it really, really hurt losing an elite national receiver still in the prime of his career.

Still think once Williams is ready the Lions will tweak the ratio to drop one of the national receiver to keep Nick Moore on the field.

I think you are very perceptive Sammy Greene, as per usual.

This is a very deep, as well as a very talented team this season and hence so much competition for so many positions.

I also think, like you, when Chris Williiams is able to get into the lineup, we will likely go with four International receivers and keep Moore in the lineup but I also think, that Maurice Morgan could be in the lineup instead of Moore and we would not miss a beat and have an even better deep threat from that spot.

Marco Iannuzzi is going to get his receptions playing outside slot. He is a veteran receiver who has been a starter playing the wide side outside receiver spot since 2011. With the attention and often double teaming given to Manny and Burnham, he should get open a lot in zone coverage. But I still see him as an average receiver and not a Shawn Gore quality National receiver.

I know I've posted quite a few times about Iannuzzi. I believed he was a Wally fave and a 'favored son' from Day 1. There was no good reason why Iannuzzi was given the nod over Paris Jackson in 2011 an yet Iannuzzi only had 8 receptions that season for 65 yds.

Paris Jackson had almost twice the reception yardage of Iannuzzi in 2011 with very limited reps at the same position, In the playoffs in 2011, with Iannuzzi injured, Paris made some big receptions for us.

Iannuzzi has been our starter ever since his rookie season with mostly poor results. In 2015 Iannuzzi started 18 game for us and had 5 catches for 91 yards but he was still penciled in as the starter for last season.

Iannuzzi had his best season last year, with 29 catches for 360 yards. But Iannuzzi's six year stint prior to this season is a far cry from the production we got from that position from Ryan Thelwell. Iannuzzi has about 1/5 of the production we got from that position from Thelwell.

My comments on Lionbackers about Iannuzzi have been countered with reaction from some that it was the outside wide side position that Iannuzzi played that resulted in his lack of production. I disagree.

Ryan Thelwell played the same position as Iannuzzi for our Leos. Over 6 seasons with our Leos, Thelwell accumulated 335 receptions for 4981 yards and 30 touchdowns. He was a West Divison All-Star in 2004 and 2005. He had 1,000 yard seasons playing the outside wide receiver spot.

We also have not been very successful throwing to Iannuzzi in the past. While the wide side outside receiver spot usually gets less footballs thrown that way, its usually a high percentage play when the throw is made to the wideside outside receiver. Often zone defenses rotate and give up the flat area to this wide out position. The outside wide out position is also a deep throw position as the safety usually double covers a more dangerous receiver.

But Ianuzzi rarely beat anyone deep and his target to reception ratio was usually very poor. For example, Iannuzzi was targeted 51 times last season and we were only successful 29 times in throwing to him - the worst average of our receiving crew.

Of course Iannuzzi will get more receptions this season and some td receptions and every time he does I will likely hear about it from some. But I still believe we would be better with Adekolu in his spot, more dangerous with Shaq Johnson playing there, and Vandervoot has so much more potential than Iannuzzi ever had.

I lamented the trade of Olifioye Sammy, as you know, as did many Lionbackers. I thought we would be so much stronger as an offence this year had we kept him and moved him back to right tackle. I also believed we needed to keep Olifioye because Johnson was an average tackle.

I understand why Buono wanted Chris Williams as a free agent, as well as Swayze Waters. But Buono could have signed both and kept Olifioye. Free agents are more expensive. Free agent signnings as Buddy Jackson, Matt Bucknor, Dylan Ainsworth, Tony Burnett, and Dequin Evans add up as being more expensive than if we had not signed them.

Jackson is not a starter, Ainsworth is injured as he was in Regina, Burnett is a serviceable linebacker but we could be going with Awe and Davis in that spot, and I like Shirley over Evans. There was more than enough money for pay Olifioye had we reduced a two or three of those signings.

But we also could have signed most of those free agents and also kept Olifioye. Just reducing the volume of the number of players being paid on the one game injury list would be more than enough to pay Olifioye's salary for this season.

Right now it looks as if we got a National starter for Olifioye so its a good trade. But we easily could have moved Fabian back to left guard and started Vaillencourt at right guard and moved Olifioye to right tackle and our offensive line would be better than what we have now. We could easily have drafted a National offensive lineman with our first round draft choice next season rather than trade for Foucault for 2017.

While there is a big difference to playing guard than tackle, its even more difficult to switch playing sides on an offensive line. Vaillencourt didn't have a chance in training camp. I believe Wally was making Foucault a starter coming out of training camp in one way or the other, no matter what, so switching Vaillencourt to left guard was the easiest way for Foucault to win the starting spot.

If Palmer, who is also an undersized offensive tackle, can't get it done, we're going to pay a price. You can have an excellent quarterback and a talented receiving crew but if the quarterback doesn't have time to throw it doesn't mean a whole lot, as we saw last game.
So Wally, sensing perhaps a little more urgency in his final season, makes several notable changes — including 2nd-years Anthony Thompson and Shaq Johnson going from seldom being used to starters ahead of Kenyon Parker and Stephen Adekolu. The latter two showed promising flashes in regular season and playoff action last year. Should that not considerably outweigh pre-season action against mostly back-ups? It's only week one and time will tell but patience has to be thin with an 18-game schedule. Sammy
I believe in competition Sammy and also not inheriting a postion from the year previous. But in Adekolu's case, it has never mattered how well he played in training camp or how well he played in exhibition play or how well he played, like last season, or thrust into the starters role for the West Semi last year and being our leading pass receiver, he wasn't going to be given the opportunity. I remebver the raves over his great exhibition game reception two years ago and Wally poo poohing the attention to it.

Kenyan Parker also deserved the opportunity to start at corner this season. I can understand Wally wanting his best athletes on the playing field and asking them to move to new positions. But I can't understand why he would do that on the fly.

Fans paid good money to watch the season opener. They paid that money not to watch a Wally experiment. Wally saw Thompson all last season and therefore knows what a good athlete he is. Therefore, he should have moved Thompson to compete at corner before the start of training camp so he could study the position, watch video, and practice at that position from the start of training camp. He would not have needed to sign Bucknor had he thought things through first.

Wally also could have had Purifoy preparing to play safety prior to this season and learning the position, both mentally as well as physically well before training camp. But he didn't. He told Clarke he wanted to move him to safety and prepare for the spot. Both Clarke and McDonald had very good training camps.

According to Wally, the move was made because of how well Fenner played nickel back at training camp. But how good of a nickel back is Fenner that you move Purifoy to safety with no practice at the spot prior to the week before the home opener and the notion that Purifoy played the spot at times last season in certain packages (how many times?) is the justification.

Heck, Wally was announcing it on radio before Purifoy had even practice starting at free safety. It was like Wally thinking he was pulling something out of his magic hat. And it didn't work. We lost the home opener and Thompson playing corner and Purifoy playing safety contributed to the loss.

It was not the time for a Wally experiment. You want to win the opener at home, defend your territory, establish a winning feeling before hitting the road, impress the fans who are not coming out in droves these days, etc. The timing of the experiment was bad.

Let Purfifoy start at nickel, where he has excelled and had a great exhibiton game the previous game, let Parker start at corner and give Thomson some rotational reps if the situation warrants it, let Clarke start at safety, where he won the spot and played well at it during training camp and exhibition play, and play Fennner at dime back and give him some rotational reps at nickel, if the situation warrents it for the opener (same with Purifoy at safety. Let them get more practice and study in before starting players at new positons if you want to make those changes.

Defensive secondaries, especially playing zone, like offensive linemen, work as a unit. They need cohesion. They need to fully understand their roles in different packages. Its not just about being the better athlete. Its about really understanding the position they are playing, how it relates to other positions in various formations and packages. It requires familiarity.

Players practice positional play for years in college and training camps. They spend countless hours learning their position and how offences attack those positions.

This is the pros...not amateur hour. Especially at this level, Its not as simple as throwing a slightly better athlete into a new position and expecting a better result. Doesn't work that way. Mind boggling.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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B.C.FAN
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SammyGreene wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:15 am

Blitz you are so right the Lions missed Olifoye and they could be in a heap of trouble if his absence is noticed that much each week. His salary was essentially given to Chris Williams giving the Lions 3 high priced receivers. Obviously we have to wait for his debut to see what the impact will be but let's hope our gunslinger QB is not continuously running for his life to get the ball to dynamic receivers.

Shawn Gore was vastly underrated and maybe that's why Wally wanted badly to add Williams. Ianuzzi is certainly servicable and versatile but Gore had been head and shoulders the Lions best national receiver for several years and I really noticed his absence Saturday. Could be physical, catch the ball in traffic and stretch defences too. Such a difference when you shift Ianuzzi inside and Johnson to his old spot where he was rarely targeted. I know he was dealing with concussion issues but it really, really hurt losing an elite national receiver still in the prime of his career.

Still think once Williams is ready the Lions will tweak the ratio to drop one of the national receiver to keep Nick Moore on the field.
That game will certainly be a test of Wally's patience, with several capable players available who could be inserted in the starting lineup in place of players who underperformed in Week 1.

The Lions really need to stretch the field horizontally and vertically. They need more playmakers to do that. Nick Moore was effective as boundary wideout, a position played by Gore last year. Williams is one of the best wideouts in the league. Defences will continue to key on Arceneaux and Burnham until the Lions until other players step up.

I've been advocating for a ratio switch on the defensive line to allow for an extra international receiver on offence once Williams is healthy. The Lions dressed five international D-linemen against Edmonton. They produced 2 QB pressures (by Evans and Roh) and one sack by Roh. Brooks and Turner had three tackles each and no pressures or sacks. Shirley didn't show up on the stat sheet. Luke, Forde or Menard could easily take the place of one of the internationals.

The Eskimo D-line, by contrast, produced seven QB pressures (in addition to two by linebacker Kenny Ladler), five sacks and a forced fumble, with most of that coming against the right side of the B.C. O-line.
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B.C. Fan wrote:

That game will certainly be a test of Wally's patience, with several capable players available who could be inserted in the starting lineup in place of players who underperformed in Week 1.

The Lions really need to stretch the field horizontally and vertically. They need more playmakers to do that. Nick Moore was effective as boundary wideout, a position played by Gore last year. Williams is one of the best wideouts in the league. Defences will continue to key on Arceneaux and Burnham until the Lions until other players step up.

I've been advocating for a ratio switch on the defensive line to allow for an extra international receiver on offence once Williams is healthy. The Lions dressed five international D-linemen against Edmonton. They produced 2 QB pressures (by Evans and Roh) and one sack by Roh. Brooks and Turner had three tackles each and no pressures or sacks. Shirley didn't show up on the stat sheet. Luke, Forde or Menard could easily take the place of one of the internationals.

The Eskimo D-line, by contrast, produced seven QB pressures (in addition to two by linebacker Kenny Ladler), five sacks and a forced fumble, with most of that coming against the right side of the B.C. O-line.
I would like to see us tweak the ratio too B.C. Fan and go with four International receivers. I also don't' see the need to dress five Internationals on the defensive line, especially with Menard, Luke, and Forde on the roster. Menard made a great play in the Edmonton game and he can play the boundary rotational defensive end spot.

That would leave us with Evans, Shirley and Bryant Turner Jr. One could come off the game roster. If we want to have Bryant Turner Jr. in the lineup he can also rotate in at times as a defensive end as well as a defensive tackle. But that would mean dropping one of Evans or Shirley from the defensive lineup.

One thougth that I have is to go with Bryant Turner Jr. as the one defensive tackle. Brooks has been all about potential but perhaps inserting Bryant Turner in his place might get Brooks to upgrade his game. He only had one sack last year and he didn't get much penetration last game either.

If we went with four International recievers, before Chris Williams joins our lineup, we could insert Maurice Morgan into the receiving group as the short side wideout and move Moore back to outside slot Morgan was mainly a special teams guy in college but he impressed at training camp and exhibition play. Another option would be to go with Tyler Davis, who can run, catch, and play special teams. Lots of things we could do to incorporate him into the offence.

This Toronto game is going to be an interesting one. If we win there and play well I think we will go in one direction but if we lost or play poorly, I can see some changes happening.

Ricky Ray looked very good in his season opener against Hamilton and Trestmann's offence looked like the Argos had been practicing it all year, rather than a couple of weeks of training camp. Amazing stuff.

So this doesn't look like a potential easy win game against the Argos that some imagined prior to the start of the season.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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