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B.C.FAN
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I give Wally full credit for going outside his normal comfort zone and giving the job to the rookie who has clearly been the better kicker from the first day of training camp. Now we'll see whether Wally is confident enough to let Long try some long field goals. With a 70-yard kickoff average, he should be capable of hitting some 50-plus yarders. He kicked a 54-yarder in college against Ohio State in 2012 and probably has more leg strength now than he did then. His longest field goal this year has been 47 yards.
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DanoT
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maxlion wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:25 pm
Haven't been overly impressed with Long. Has a strong leg, no question, and played better last game than in the first two. Surely comes a lot cheaper than Waters. I suspect there will be more adventures in the kicking department this year.
The only less than impressive part of Ty Long's game has been directional punting (trying for the coffin corner) and this is something that as a young punter that skill can be developed over time. The other slight negative is that his long punts can out kick the downfield punt coverage guys, giving the punt returner too much time to field the ball and start up field. Sometimes with punting higher is better than farther.

FGs and point after TD have been fine.

Kickoffs with returners regularly fielding the ball inside their 10 yard line have been outstanding.

The only question now that Waters has been released is, who is the backup kicker if Long gets hurt? I think the in game emergency backup FG kicker was Bighill, but now ?????
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I'm not surprised Waters is gone, but Wally made his decision faster than I expected him to. I blame the Lions medical staff lacking their due diligence in giving him a clean bill of health prior to signing him. He aggravated an old injury in training camp.

The Steve Ewen Province article above has some really interesting info about the links between Long and Waters (and Long and Leone). The UAB stats comparing Long and Waters should make any Lions fan feel better that Wally made this decision today.
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Most interesting but then again, Buono's thoughts about kickers are most often interesting.

First of all, Buono tried to convert Duncan O'Mahoney, a punter into a field goal kicker. It was a disaster and Buono had to lure retired Calgary field goal kicker Mark MacLaughlin twice to replace him.

Ever the fast learner, Buono pushed McCallum into retirement at our 2015 training camp so that he could attempt to convert punter Richie Leone into a field goal kicker. It ws the O'Mahoney story all over again and towards the end of last season, Buono had to ask (well he got McAvoy to ask) McCallum to come out of retirement to replace Leone as a field goal kicker.

It was like watching a re-run.

Buono outbid Hamilton for Swayze Waters to start this season. Waters, an often injured kicker hurt a quad in training camp. Buono then was forced to go with Long. Long is a field goal kicker who never punted in college. At least this time Buono is trying it the opposite way,

The sad part is that Buono could have kept Olifioye had he not signed Waters. Olifioye would sure look good at right tackle right now instead of Antonio Johnson. Jennings would be a hell of a lot happier too if that was the case.

I agree with the decision to release Waters. I wouldn't have signed him in the first place. He was expensive once Hamilton got interested too. Long has looked good in the field goal kicking department. He has a good leg as a punter but his directional punting definitely needs work and rightly so...he has very little experience as a punter.

We could also sign a National to do our punting duties down the road if needed but right now, after 3 games Long Long is 8-for-9 on field goals and best in the CFL in both punting average (46.4) and kickoff average (70.4).

The only way the Waters signing and release is redeemable, after losing Olifioye, is if the money can be used to sign a National lineman like Boyko, if he becomes available. I would also love to see us get Lokombo back here but if I was him I would sign with a different team than have Buono just use him mostly on special teams. Lokombo did that for 3 seasons already and should have been played more - he is an incredible athlete.

I would not be so high on signing Bighill if he was released. I think we'll be fine with Burnett and Awe.
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DanoT wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:26 pm
maxlion wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:25 pm
Haven't been overly impressed with Long. Has a strong leg, no question, and played better last game than in the first two. Surely comes a lot cheaper than Waters. I suspect there will be more adventures in the kicking department this year.
The only less than impressive part of Ty Long's game has been directional punting (trying for the coffin corner) and this is something that as a young punter that skill can be developed over time. The other slight negative is that his long punts can out kick the downfield punt coverage guys, giving the punt returner too much time to field the ball and start up field. Sometimes with punting higher is better than farther.

FGs and point after TD have been fine.

Kickoffs with returners regularly fielding the ball inside their 10 yard line have been outstanding.

The only question now that Waters has been released is, who is the backup kicker if Long gets hurt? I think the in game emergency backup FG kicker was Bighill, but now ?????
His 3 singles costing field position and missed convert in the final minute were major factors in the loss to the Esks, but he has played okay since. I was looking forward to having Waters shore up this area, but am okay with having a young up and comer winning the job. I expect some growing pains but hopefully he will grow into the role...yet not so much that the NFL calls. Just be solid and unspectacular please!
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We really don't know Blitz what moves the dynamics of the Olafioye trade allowed or perhaps what other unpopular moves may have been necessitated had they chosen to keep JO. Personally I don't believe Waters was signed for anything close to what Jovan was scheduled to make.
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maxlion wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:25 pm
Haven't been overly impressed with Long. Has a strong leg, no question, and played better last game than in the first two. Surely comes a lot cheaper than Waters. I suspect there will be more adventures in the kicking department this year.
It's a small body of work for sure but when you look at Long's numbers you get:

- leads the league in KO average
- is tied for the league lead in punting average despite those 3 bad shanks in Toronto
- 8 of 9 on FGs with the only miss being when he hit the upright from 42 I believe it was
- converts - rough debut with a hook wide left and a block. purrfect since.
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WestCoastJoe
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It is early with Ty Long. But I like what we see so far. He seems calm. His leg is a cannon. This fan has never seen such long kickoffs. Has settled down on converts. Good on field goals. Downfield punts have been monstrous. Sideline kicks are a work in progress.

It seems clear that Wally has a very high assessment of his ability.
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I think for all parties involved, it was a smart move to release Waters now. It gives him a chance to sign with another team before NFL cuts, it gives Long the vote of confidence the job is his and he can concentrate on improving things like his directional punting instead of dealing with kicking competitions during practice and Wally knows he has the younger guy (by 6 years) with a longer contract and some extra $ to splash on NFL cuts later in the year. Say a guy like Brett Boyko?????

As for having a backup should Long go down, I am not sure it is wise to use a roster spot for kicker for purely contingency reasons. Wally seems quite confident in Long and prepared to trust his leg and how often do kickers go down to injury? Guys like Justin Palardy and Chris Milo are floating around "out there" so if Long is knocked out of commission there are kickers who can be parachuted in.
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SammyGreene
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Almost fitting the Wally era ends with a rookie American kicker which is the exact way it started with Curtis Head.
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Hambone
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CardiacKid wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:28 am
As for having a backup should Long go down, I am not sure it is wise to use a roster spot for kicker for purely contingency reasons. Wally seems quite confident in Long and prepared to trust his leg and how often do kickers go down to injury? Guys like Justin Palardy and Chris Milo are floating around "out there" so if Long is knocked out of commission there are kickers who can be parachuted in.
Totally agree with that. There is no need to stash an extra kicker on the roster. There's far too many on the EI kicker team just waiting for a call. And they are smart enough to keep working out regularly so they can be prepared in the event the phones does ring. If Long got hurt on Saturday they could have another experienced kicker in Surrey by Monday.
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Speaking of Boyko I was looking into the LA Charger's website today. They don't yet have a depth chart posted. There was an article posted where "Chargers.com" was interviewing the OL Coach about the current Charger OL personnel. Currently there are 14 OL listed on the Chargers roster. In the article 13 of those players were mentioned. The only one whose name didn't come up was one Brett Boyko.

http://www.chargers.com/news/2017/07/17 ... -pat-meyer

Interesting Hambone.

My best guess is that Boyko will be a Leo this season if we wants to keep playing the game.
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I would be surprised if Boy Kobe becomes a Lion at this point.

As for Waters, I doubt her was interested in second place and pushed for his release. Wally has often kept two K/P on the roster in the past, granted perhaps not at the price tag of Streets contract. Plus Wally can always get McAvoy to give McCallum a call in an emergency,
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Hambone wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:50 am
Speaking of Boyko I was looking into the LA Charger's website today. They don't yet have a depth chart posted. There was an article posted where "Chargers.com" was interviewing the OL Coach about the current Charger OL personnel. Currently there are 14 OL listed on the Chargers roster. In the article 13 of those players were mentioned. The only one whose name didn't come up was one Brett Boyko.

http://www.chargers.com/news/2017/07/17 ... -pat-meyer

Interesting Hambone.

My best guess is that Boyko will be a Leo this season if we wants to keep playing the game.
:cr:
Am I correct in thinking he played left tackle at UNLV? Any significant time playing RT?
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B.C.FAN
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The Lions have released RB Josh Harris, who was among the players they had been carrying on the 1-game injured list from game to game.
July 26, 2017
Release from 1-Game Injured: RB Josh Harris (I)
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