What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

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What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby David » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:03 pm

The Esks won't likely find a GM successor until after the season. We have two very strong candidates in Neil McEvoy and Geroy Simon who have been apprenticing (and in the case of McEvoy, biding his time as Director Of Football Ops) under Wally. Edmonton will at least consider these two.

Wally is under contract until early in 2018 here. Does this hasten the transition to Neil or Geroy at the end of the year knowing that the Esks will likely want to interview them? Or do you think Wally will sign a short extension with the club likely to be sold in the next 1-2 years and the new owner/president likely requesting that he oversee things, at least in the short term (so everything effectively remains status quo and Neil and Geroy prepared to hang onto to current titles and responsibilities)?

By the way, curious timing by Len Rhodes. 6 weeks before the start of training camp?!? And we thought the Argos sat on the Barker decision too long! What made Hervey less media friendly and PR savvy in April than he was in December or January? Eskimo fans seem outraged by this decision.



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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby B.C.FAN » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:16 pm

Good riddance. Hervey's elitist isolationism can't be tolerated. The league depends on fan engagement and interaction, and needs as much publicity as it can get. Shutting the players from fans and media and allowing his coach to refuse to wear a live mic during TSN broadcast undemines the franchise and its business partners.

Edmonton media were happy to see Hervey go.
Terry Jones: Hervey bullied his way right out the Eskimos' door

Dan Barnes: Ed Hervey ousted as Eskimos GM after philosophical clash with president Len Rhodes

I doubt that Neil McEvoy or Geroy Simon would get serious consideration for the Eskimo job. The Esks like to hire from within the Eskimo "family." I don't know who might be considered but a candidate with a history in the city, having played for or worked for the organization, would likely be given strong priority.
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby DanoT » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:19 pm

At the time of Jones' departure from Edmonton I thought that the Esks BOD had to make a choice between Jones and Hervey and chose Hervey to run the football ops. I guess they have had a change of mind but are happy with Maas as HC and probably don't miss Jones either.
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby WestCoastJoe » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:05 pm

This fan seriously hopes we do not lose McEvoy. He has been doing yeoman work for the Lions. IMO he is very, very solid and competent. If he does take over from Wally, at the time Wally retires, McEvoy's most important decision will obviously be choosing the next Head Coach. In all the other matters, this fan has confidence in him. Contracts. Business operations related to personnel, games, training camp, travel, etc. Drafting. Scouting. Paying attention to details.

My gawd, to lose him after the time he has spent here, doing good work, doing GM work, would be ridiculous.

Some might say, but we need a more high profile GM. Ummm ... not this fan. Wally was hardly high profile when he took over in Calgary. Bobby Ackles was not exactly high profile when he rose up to the GM level, all the way from grass roots. Of course he achieved renown, and well deserved, after he got his chance.

Hang on to Neil McEvoy. He might be the most qualified of all to be the next GM in the CFL.

Just IMO ...
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby Blitz » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:51 am

David wrote:The Esks won't likely find a GM successor until after the season. We have two very strong candidates in Neil McEvoy and Geroy Simon who have been apprenticing (and in the case of McEvoy, biding his time as Director Of Football Ops) under Wally. Edmonton will at least consider these two.

Wally is under contract until early in 2018 here. Does this hasten the transition to Neil or Geroy at the end of the year knowing that the Esks will likely want to interview them? Or do you think Wally will sign a short extension with the club likely to be sold in the next 1-2 years and the new owner/president likely requesting that he oversee things, at least in the short term (so everything effectively remains status quo and Neil and Geroy prepared to hang onto to current titles and responsibilities)?

By the way, curious timing by Len Rhodes. 6 weeks before the start of training camp?!? And we thought the Argos sat on the Barker decision too long! What made Hervey less media friendly and PR savvy in April than he was in December or January? Eskimo fans seem outraged by this decision.:


Terry Jones of the Edmonton Journal was the reporter who really kept the focus on Hervey for not allowing journalists into the locker room for interviews. Jones pointed out that Norm Kimball went so far as to tell him to call him at 4 a.m. if a breaking story needed team reaction. Good for Kimball who obviously wanted to cater to the press.

I don't agree with Hervey's stance with the press and media in a number of areas but I do agree with teams that want to limit access to the locker room after a game. The concept of having a separate room, outside the locker room, to interview players is a good one. The locker room should be off-limits to anyone except for the team, even if Jones wants to interview players in jock straps.

This was less about the fans and more about Jones. A lot of Edmonton fans are unhappy about this firing. Ever since the minute the Eskimos dropped the bomb Friday morning, Jones has been getting a huge amount of the blame for getting Hervey fired. It looks good on him.

What does the Hervey firing mean to our Leos. Most of the team, as well as the coaches are in place for Edmonton for 2017. Terry Jones is happy that he can interview players in their jock straps. It will likely mean little for this season. Long term - depends on who Edmonton hires as their next GM.

What is more important for our Leos for the 2017 season is that Mike Benevedes continues his role as the Eskimos defensive coordinator. Benevdes' passive zone cover 2 deep corner defensive scheme was very unpopular with fans in Edmonton last year and for good reason. Edmonton finished 8th in the CFL in sacks and gave up an average of more than 300 yds. passing per game. For 2017, its less important for our Leos that Hervey is gone than Benevedes is back. That gives us a better opportunity to win.
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby Blitz » Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:00 pm

Fans in Edmonton are still really unhappy about the Hervey firing and expressing their wrath towards both Rhodes and Edmonton reporter Jones and Edmonton reporter Terry Jones.

cfl. ca described fans reaction to the Hervery firing as follows:

Disbelief and fury swirled together on Twitter as fans and even Esks players tried to wrap their heads around what was happening. The announcement would be difficult, there would be no way around that.
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby DanoT » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:12 am

Over at Eskfans.com they have had a thread for quite some time that is dedicated to the demise and meltdown of the Sask Riders. Now they have their own "meltdown thread" on the topic of Ed Hervey's firing. Some very entertaining posts with some fans completely loosing it. I have always thought that compared to other CFL fan forums, the Eskfans has the most hate and vile toward other CFL teams and their fan bases, so this looks real good on them.
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby Blitz » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:01 pm

Rhodes believes that he can pack 40,000 fans per game into Commonwealth. The fall guy was Hervey, who would not allow media access to the locker room.

But will access to the locker room be the key in the future to the Eskimos filling up the stadium? I highly doubt it. But if the Eskimos start to lose too many football games, attendance will drop a whole lot more than the impact of the media not having access to the locker room ever did...if it impacted Eskimo attendance at all.

Likley the only impact that had was football reporter Terry Jones getting a bee in his underwear.

Dan Barnes, of the Edmonton Journal disagrees with his football writing colleague at the Edmonton Journal. Here are some excerpts:

Winning is everything, but it’s not enough, according to Edmonton Eskimos president Len Rhodes.

It certainly wasn’t enough to save Ed Hervey’s job as general manager.

And if you walk down that twisted line of logic, it will take you to the spot where Hervey’s opposition to media access collided with Rhodes’ belief that he can pack 40,000 people into Commonwealth Stadium for every home game, if only he and the team’s stakeholders receive more co-operation from the football operations side. Which would be Hervey. Or, was.

Rhodes fired Hervey on Friday morning, citing an impasse over contract extension talks and a philosophical difference over stakeholder access to Eskimos players.

As team president and a marketing guy, Rhodes was tasked with overcoming that challenge, and he surely has to eat most of the blame for the fact attendance continued its downward trend and fell by three per cent last year. But there was enough finger-pointing to go around, and when Rhodes decided Hervey wasn’t willing to become part of the solution, in fact Hervey was part of the problem, something had to give.

The food chain being what it is, Hervey’s defiance meant he had to go.

In general, you do as your boss desires or suffer the consequences. Trouble is, Rhodes’ base assumption is flawed. There is no chance crowds of 40,000 will flock to home games simply because the Eskimos fling open the doors of their room to the media and their minds to marketing ideas. No teams in the league, not even the most consistent winners, approach that number.

And what if the Eskimos suddenly stop winning, which is the risk when letting go a football mind like Hervey’s? Finding a capable new GM will take time. He, in time, will want his own head coach. By pulling the trigger on Hervey two months before the season starts, based on issues lingering from last season and years before, Rhodes has signed up the Eskimos for a period of instability, which isn’t good for the record.
And winning, as they say, is everything. Until somebody like Rhodes decides it isn’t. This is his second GM firing, and he’s getting only slightly better at it. Remember him saying there was “no specific reason” for axing Eric Tillman in November 2012? That was bizarre.
On Friday he had his reasons, valid or not, but his timing was truly awful.

And timing, like winning, is everything. Until somebody decides it isn’t.

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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby DanoT » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:48 pm

I think Hervey's firing is less about his stance against media access and more about Hervey being a contrarian who is constantly butting heads with his boss. Sometimes it is best to go along with your boss's wishes just to acknowledge that he is the boss otherwise you wake up one day, like Hervey, and find out you no longer get the oppourtunity to defy your boss because you no longer have a job.

I can imagine Rhodes struggling to put up with Hervey's attitude and then the high wage demand becomes the final straw.

IMO, Rhodes would have been better off letting Hervey be the GM for 2017 and then at the end of the year offer a low ball new contract with no further negotiation..."Take it or leave it", and then hope he leaves.
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby WestCoastJoe » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:04 pm

DanoT wrote:I think Hervey's firing is less about his stance against media access and more about Hervey being a contrarian who is constantly butting heads with his boss. Sometimes it is best to go along with your boss's wishes just to acknowledge that he is the boss otherwise you wake up one day, like Hervey, and find out you no longer get the oppourtunity to defy your boss because you no longer have a job.

I can imagine Rhodes struggling to put up with Hervey's attitude and then the high wage demand becomes the final straw.

IMO, Rhodes would have been better off letting Hervey be the GM for 2017 and then at the end of the year offer a low ball new contract with no further negotiation..."Take it or leave it", and then hope he leaves.


Hervey is kind of interesting, Dano.

Definitely seems like a challenging employee. Head strong. His HC hires seem good. Chris Jones. Jason Maas. Personnel work seems good. Perhaps somewhat too defiant in his attitude. Strange attitude to the media.

Not sure if he has burned his bridges in the CFL.
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby Hambone » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:51 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:
DanoT wrote:I think Hervey's firing is less about his stance against media access and more about Hervey being a contrarian who is constantly butting heads with his boss. Sometimes it is best to go along with your boss's wishes just to acknowledge that he is the boss otherwise you wake up one day, like Hervey, and find out you no longer get the oppourtunity to defy your boss because you no longer have a job.

I can imagine Rhodes struggling to put up with Hervey's attitude and then the high wage demand becomes the final straw.

IMO, Rhodes would have been better off letting Hervey be the GM for 2017 and then at the end of the year offer a low ball new contract with no further negotiation..."Take it or leave it", and then hope he leaves.


Hervey is kind of interesting, Dano.

Definitely seems like a challenging employee. Head strong. His HC hires seem good. Chris Jones. Jason Maas. Personnel work seems good. Perhaps somewhat too defiant in his attitude. Strange attitude to the media.

Not sure if he has burned his bridges in the CFL.


Typically when this sort of thing happens it's a culmination of many factors that lead to this result. Failing to agree on an extension was likely the final straw. I believe when it comes to a critical position such as this if Rhodes and the BOD have determined Hervey is not their guy then they should terminate the arrangement immediately. No sense keeping him around as a lame duck GM who they want to move on from anyways. Can't dwell on whether it's the right decision or not. You just have make the move and deal with the consequences.
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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby David » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:39 pm

B.C.FAN wrote:I doubt that Neil McEvoy or Geroy Simon would get serious consideration for the Eskimo job. The Esks like to hire from within the Eskimo "family." I don't know who might be considered but a candidate with a history in the city, having played for or worked for the organization, would likely be given strong priority.


You could very well be right B.C.FAN. That actually makes total sense - I could see Edmonton keeping it in the family, as you say. I was just getting this list of possible candidates from Gary Lawless, which was the impetus for this thread.

gary lawless‏Verified account @garylawless

3. Lots of excellent asst GM types out there waiting for a chance. Geroy Simon, Neil McEvoy, Brendan Mahoney, Cole Hufnagel, Jeremy O'Day



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Re: What the Hervey firing means to the Lions

Postby Blitz » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:20 am

David wrote:
B.C.FAN wrote:I doubt that Neil McEvoy or Geroy Simon would get serious consideration for the Eskimo job. The Esks like to hire from within the Eskimo "family." I don't know who might be considered but a candidate with a history in the city, having played for or worked for the organization, would likely be given strong priority.


You could very well be right B.C.FAN. That actually makes total sense - I could see Edmonton keeping it in the family, as you say. I was just getting this list of possible candidates from Gary Lawless, which was the impetus for this thread.

gary lawless‏Verified account @garylawless

3. Lots of excellent asst GM types out there waiting for a chance. Geroy Simon, Neil McEvoy, Brendan Mahoney, Cole Hufnagel, Jeremy O'Day



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The Eskimos have asked for permission to interview Jeremy O'Day of the Riders.
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