Jovan leaves the Den. Confirmation on Page 8.

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WestCoastJoe
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JohnHenry wrote:I'm not understanding how Mtl could trade Foucault's "rights" to B.C. if he's not under contract?
IMO, JohnHenry ...

There are contracts between clubs and players. And there are agreements between the clubs themselves. It involves free agency as an issue, and it involves a club owning the rights to a player.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainme ... ss/241783/

https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=6wW ... &*&spf=376

Curt Flood challenged Major League Baseball's "reserve clause," back in 1969, 1970. It led to an agreement whereby players could achieve free agency. Prior to that, a club held a player's rights forever. Flood never played again, but he told his lawyer to go ahead with the suit anyway, as it would benefit other players. :beer:

As we know, the CFL has negotiation lists, giving teams the rights to unsigned players. And CFL teams have the rights to players they draft. These amount to contracts or agreements between teams, before player contracts are signed.

Not fair? Well, the CFL would probably not exist without them. Just as the CFL might not exist without the teams renegotiating some contracts, and without teams having the ability to just walk away from contracts, and release players. It ain't nice and it ain't fair, but it is the reality.

If players want to play in the CFL, that is what they accept.

There are many issues and complexities involved, of course. Top players do more than alright, I would suggest. Jovan has not taken a hit on his contract. He may well have improved it.

Just IMO, just my view of "rights" ...
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David wrote:
So it's quite clear now that they're moving Hunter to his more natural tackle position (likely left tacke - I would suspect Foucault will initially back him up at LT or I could see them having him compete as a Guard, giving him every opportunity to start to justify the trade).

The question for me has always been: with Hunter's frame (height, long wing span) and quick feet, shouldn't he have been playing tackle last year? I viewed him as a better option than Antonio Johnson (and not just because of the ratio, although that certainly helped), and light years ahead of the beleaguered Levi Adcock. I believe Wally was deathly afraid of not having a National back-up for him. But do you not worry about that if it should arise? Go to Plan B if and when Hunter goes down, replacing him then with Antonio Johnson and adding a National elsewhere?

Can someone explain this to me, as I am completely baffled why Wally is telling the casual fan - who either takes everything at face value or doesn't has the depth of football knowledge, and media members who won't challenge him - that the Jovan trade allows us to start 4 Nationals across the O-line. New Flash! We could have done it last year. It's just that we'll (presumably) have much better depth with Foucault in 2017, if and when he signs.

DH :cool:
I don't think Wally was comfortable starting Steward, with his injury history, at tackle without dressing a capable national backup, and neither was I. All of the Lions other nationals last year were strictly guards/centres. Now that Steward has completed his first injury-free season, concerns about his health have eased somewhat but Foucault is the final piece of the puzzle that allows the Lions to comfortably start four nationals.

The move of Olafioye to left tackle last year was precipitated by the high-profile signing of Levy Adcock, a natural right tackle who started in Saskatchewan under Dan Dorazio and was brought in with great fanfare. Antonio Johnson was not in the equation at the start of last season. He was just seen as a rookie backup who got thrust into the starting right tackle position when Adcock took ill. He eventually played well enough to hold the position all year and presumably still be considered a starter (at a much lower salary than Olafioye) heading into this year. B.C. Fan

I find this entire topic interesting and intriguing.

I thought, like you did David, that Hunter Steward should start at left tackle last season and Olifioye remain at right tackle.

However, as B.C.Fan notes, Wally moved Olifoye to left tackle based upon the free agent signing of Levy Adcock. Wally was not comfortable starting Steward at left tackle, last season or this season without a National backup or has basically said so, in that he feels he can go with four Nationals on the offensive line for 2017 because he now has National backups who can step in there, in case of injury.

But I also think the reason last year and this upcoming season for not starting Steward previously at left tackle was more than just Steward's injury history. Wally is not comfortable starting a National without a backup at any position.

Wally has never been particularly fond of the notion of a Nationanal tailback due to not having a good National backup. That was his reason gien, (along with money amongst others) for wanting to go with an International tailback. Wally signed Bucknor this season in order to be able to have a backup for Kenyan Parker, who he would like to start at field corner. We always dress a National backup receiver and a National backup defensive lineman.

But what I find most intriguing is that Wally initially did not go after Facault, an offensive tackle in trading Olifioye to Montreal. Instead he first went after Phillipe Gagnon. I am not sure what Wally's thinking was, as Gagnon played guard for Montreal last season and played guard at university.

Either Wally felt that Gagnon would be able to be converted to a left tackle to backup Steward or Wally just wanted the player and felt he could draft a backup National tackle in this year's draft. No information has been provided as to why he wanted Gagnon first over Facault.

Oman wrote "No way he gets starters money ... that would be more than Jovan was making 200-250 for a CDN left tackle.He gets more than 80k MTL was offering ... probably $100-120k ... similar to high 1st round pick salary. The salary arbitrage is one the main reasons for the deal. Qman[/quote]My best guess is that Facault will get signed for starters money in the $100,000 - $120,000 range"

I don't see him signing for first year high first round draft money, which is generally around the range that Montreal offered. Olifioye was not paid just starters money. He was paid as a former CFL Best Offensive Lineman, a consistent CFL All-Star and one of the best tackles in the league. My best guess is that Olifioye was one of the very best paid offensive linemen in the CFL.

While I did not want to see Olifioye traded and would have rather us started Steward at left tackle this season, draft a backup National tackle, and start Olifioye at right tackle, I don't see us getting fleeced with this trade. There are positives. We've increased our National depth and opened up more options at the draft, we traded Olifioye to the East and got a former first round draft choice for him and one who has picked up some NFL experience too.

Olifioye did not want to leave but with his signing bonus and restructured contract he will likely make more this season in Montreal than here and he will be playing with Leo teammates Ryan Phillips and Jabar Westerman, which will ease the transition to the East and a different environment.

If we drafted a National who could back up Steward and Facault could start at right tackle, it would allow us to play five Nationals on the offensive line. While I do not see that happening in 2017, its not impossible. I always envied Montreal starting five quality Nationals on the offensive line when they did and were good.

A guess is that Facault could upsurp Fabian at guard. Whatever way he is used, he will create competition for either Steward, Vaillencourt, or Fabian.

What I hope doesn't happen is that Facault starts at left tackle, either relegating Steward to guard or a National backup. I would love to see Steward really given an opportunity at left tackle. He played very well here in the six games he started at left tackle a couple of seaons back.

Some Mike Beamish excerpts:
With the signing of dynamic free agents such as receiver Chris Williams and bump-ups for returning veterans, the perils of the salary cap weighed heavily on B.C. Lions general manager Wally Buono.

No matter how he crunched the numbers, he couldn’t make it fit. That led in short order to the dumping of a big salary — six-time CFL all-star Jovan Olafioye, believed to be one of the league’s highest paid offensive linemen — in a much-rumoured trade that finally came down with the Montreal Alouettes.

In return for a well-decorated offensive tackle who has played 126 games in the CFL and was named the league’s most outstanding lineman in 2012, the Lions get two for the price of one: import Vincent Brown, who has a single CFL game on his resume, and Montreal native David Foucault, who has yet to play in the Canadian league.

Dumping a star player is like a warship jettisoning cannons to get faster. The gain in speed is offset by the loss in firepower.

Still, Buono feels the Lions are a better team now than the one which closed out the 2016 season with a 42-15 defeat to Calgary in the West Division Final.

“These are the tough decisions you have to make as a GM,” he acknowledged Monday. “Obviously, Jovan is a great player. He did a great job for us here. But when you have to look at getting an asset, you have to move an asset.”

While not much is known about Brown, the 6-foot-8, 305-pound Foucault represents the anticipated asset gain in B.C., offering ratio flexibility, versatility and NFL experience.

Though he played five games with one start in his 2½ seasons in the NFL, Foucault hardly languished on the practice roster. He fought to maintain his spot and prepared himself to start every week.

Wherever Foucault lands — whether he competes with Steward for the starting left tackle spot, or serves as his backup — the Montrealer is looking for starter’s money.

For while the Lions now have Foucault’s CFL rights, they don’t have him under contract yet.

“I’m not a greedy guy,” Foucault maintains. “When I spoke to Wally (Buono), I’m thinking it’s going to be a good contract. But I don’t know the terms. My agent (Darren Gill) expects to get something done sometime this week. I just want the opportunity to play, to be one of the starters.”

In talks with Alouettes’ GM Kavis Reed, Foucault said it became apparent the Als didn’t regard him as a front-line player — at least not at the start.

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Olafioye's base salary, not including bonuses, was reported to have been around $200,000. If he earns all his bonuses, which he probably has every season he's played here, his contract likely approaches $250,000. While I will agree that he is one of the top three linemen in the league, he is just not worth that kind of money, when you could get a younger international to play for about $60,000.
Reed apparently offered Foucoult $85,000 as a take it or leave it deal.
Foucoult has reportedly asked Kavis for $120-$150,000.
While $150,000 might be a tad high. I think $about $120,000 would actually be a pretty fair value.
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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28832&start=120#p379398
Blitz wrote:Thanks for posting WCJ...interesting read.
You are welcome, Blitz. -- re an earlier post

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/foot ... story.html
With the signing of dynamic free agents such as receiver Chris Williams and bump-ups for returning veterans, the perils of the salary cap weighed heavily on B.C. Lions general manager Wally Buono.

No matter how he crunched the numbers, he couldn’t make it fit. That led in short order to the dumping of a big salary — six-time CFL all-star Jovan Olafioye, believed to be one of the league’s highest paid offensive linemen — in a much-rumoured trade that finally came down with the Montreal Alouettes. -- Mike Beamish in the Sun
This was how I saw it, a cap issue.

As noted, there can be advantages to this trade, if we sign Foucault. He is a former #5 overall CFL draft pick. He has NFL training. He is huge and athletic. 6'8'' 305. He is a National OL tackle. He improves our National OL depth.

We have done a much better job with the draft recently. Hopefully we can stock up on some high end DL types this time around. I hope we stay away from players far down consensus lists --> needless gambles. If nobody else sees a player as a first rounder why should we draft him there? He will still be there in later rounds.
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David wrote:Two rumours recently surfaced about Wally shopping Jovan Olafioye. The 2nd report today provides more details, so I am posting a link HERE.

It seems we overspent on free agents (really?!? I think we came up rather light compared to some other teams. Perhaps it was inking all those veterans to extensions prior to FA). This has precipitated trade talks with an Eastern team for his services in an effort to shed salary, which I am not happy about.

Jovan is a lockdown tackle. The awards speak for themselves - a 6 time CFL All-Star and Most Outstanding Lineman (2012). He's only 29 and likely has about 5 more good years in him. Will go down as one of the best O-linemen we've ever had. What good is signing someone like Chris Williams if JJ is (potentially) going to be running for his life? I hope we have someone good lined up to take his place. And they'd better be damn good. We've seen a veritable revolving door at left tackle for the past decade - this doesn't make a lot of sense.



DH :cool:
JO was interviewed on 1040 today. Really good interview:
http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040- ... y-1.709714
It sounds like he found out about the same way we did--"someone forwarded him a newspaper article" a week before he heard anything from the Lions.
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BC 1988 wrote:
David wrote:Two rumours recently surfaced about Wally shopping Jovan Olafioye. The 2nd report today provides more details, so I am posting a link HERE.

It seems we overspent on free agents (really?!? I think we came up rather light compared to some other teams. Perhaps it was inking all those veterans to extensions prior to FA). This has precipitated trade talks with an Eastern team for his services in an effort to shed salary, which I am not happy about.

Jovan is a lockdown tackle. The awards speak for themselves - a 6 time CFL All-Star and Most Outstanding Lineman (2012). He's only 29 and likely has about 5 more good years in him. Will go down as one of the best O-linemen we've ever had. What good is signing someone like Chris Williams if JJ is (potentially) going to be running for his life? I hope we have someone good lined up to take his place. And they'd better be damn good. We've seen a veritable revolving door at left tackle for the past decade - this doesn't make a lot of sense.

DH :cool:
JO was interviewed on 1040 today. Really good interview:


http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040- ... y-1.709714
It sounds like he found out about the same way we did--"someone forwarded him a newspaper article" a week before he heard anything from the Lions.
Just listened to the interview. Jovan is sure a very likeable, straight forward man.

A few highlights I gleaned from Jovan's interview.

~Jovan learned that he was on the trade block as someone forwarded a newspaper ariticle. He phoned his agent, who phoned Wally, but Wally didn't say anything so Jovan was told it was just a rumour.

~The following week Jovan talked to Dorazio who told him that he was on the trade block.

~Jovan said that it was a tough time to renegotiate a contract with Montreal because most cap money has been paid out for free agency and wish that if Wally was going to trade him, he would have done before free agency -that the timing made contract negotions with Montreal more challenging

~Jovan didnt' apologize for his salary. He considers himself one of the best offensive linemen in the league and felt that his salary was in accordance - that was what "he was worth" and that he always also worked hard and always gave it his all on the field.

~ He expressed appreciation to Wally for working him out and then giving him the opportunity for a shot to play for the Lions - class act.

~ Jovan discussed how he had lost weight last season to be quicker at the left tackle position. Jovan also metioned what a very hard transition is is to switch from right tackle to left tackle. I wonder how many fans know how challenging it is. Everything is different than you've practiced and played for years. Stance, drop step, footwork, punch hand etc. Jovan felt he did a good job at left tackle last season and obviously he did.

~When asked about his fave best Lions memories they were in the following order 1) winning the Grey Cup 2) wining the MOL and 3) just making the team in his first season.

~Jovan thanked 'Lion Nation' for their support of him and that he will always be a B.C. Lion even if he is playing on another team.

Thank you Jovan. As was expressed to you in the interview, you are one of the greatest Leo offensive linemen of all time. Thanks for the memories!!
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Blitz wrote: ~ Jovan discussed how he had lost weight last season to be quicker at the left tackle position. Jovan also metioned what a very hard transition is is to switch from right tackle to left tackle. I wonder how many fans know how challenging it is. Everything is different than you've practiced and played for years. Stance, drop step, footwork, punch hand etc. Jovan felt he did a good job at left tackle last season and obviously he did.
Couldn't agree more Blitz. One of the hardest things I had to do back when I was playing was switching back and forth between right and left side (sometimes in the same game). Its true, everything is backwards, your stance, your steps, your kick step, etc. In addition, the mental aspect as well. Often running plays are called to the corresponding hole on the side of the line. On each play you know where the ball is going, and how to block it, but your responsibilities changed. Where you might have been on the backside, you are now on the playside, and you might be blocking the other way. Just another reason I have respect for Olafioye, switching sides without protest.
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Lionsfan65 wrote:
Blitz wrote: ~ Jovan discussed how he had lost weight last season to be quicker at the left tackle position. Jovan also metioned what a very hard transition is is to switch from right tackle to left tackle. I wonder how many fans know how challenging it is. Everything is different than you've practiced and played for years. Stance, drop step, footwork, punch hand etc. Jovan felt he did a good job at left tackle last season and obviously he did.
Couldn't agree more Blitz. One of the hardest things I had to do back when I was playing was switching back and forth between right and left side (sometimes in the same game). Its true, everything is backwards, your stance, your steps, your kick step, etc. In addition, the mental aspect as well. Often running plays are called to the corresponding hole on the side of the line. On each play you know where the ball is going, and how to block it, but your responsibilities changed. Where you might have been on the backside, you are now on the playside, and you might be blocking the other way. Just another reason I have respect for Olafioye, switching sides without protest.
I never played offensive line, except for my first game of jr. bantam football as a 13 year old. But in coaching, I quickly learned that switching an offensive lineman from one side of the line to the other is a completely different thing.

I can only imagine years and years of doing something one way until it is a natural and programmed thing to do, almost a part of your DNA, and then trying to change that. I lived a year in Australia and learning to drive with the steering wheel on the right and driving on the left side of the road took more than some getting used to.

I can only wonder in amazement at Olifioye, who would have taken a right foot drop step at right tackle to pass block for thousands and thousands of repititions and then having to take a left foot drop step instead, with only a short training camp to make the change, must have been monumentally challenging alone, without all the other differences playing left tackle vs right tackle would have entailed. That he was able to do that and be a CFL All-Star is really, really impressive.

Kirby Fabian played right guard in his rookie season, left guard in 2015, and then was back to playing right guard again last year. That 2015 season must have been difficult for Fabian too.

What I really enjoy and respect on Lionbackers is that so many posters not only recognize the importance of offensive line play but also know that its one of the most complex positions to play, requiring intelligence and an understanding of defensive alignments etc. Next to the quarterback position, its requires the most football knowledge and understanding of the game. Its a complex position to play and much more difficult than receiver, running back, defensive line, or defensive back.

Zone run blocking has made offensive line play for the run game a bit easier than man blocking. But still, defenses are complex and defensive alignments can change at the snap of the football.

One of the reasons that I love this Lionbackers forum is that there are a lot of Lionbacker posters who really understand the game at a high level. Post-game comments reflect that knowledge. They watch the game differently than the typical football fan.

When I watch a game, I usually look first at formation and where personell are lined up in the formation. For example, on offence I most often don't follow the football from the center to the quarterback. Instead I look at the offensive line first and the number of defenders who are pass rushing or blitzing on a pass play for example before looking for the football.

Others on Lionbackers have their own ways of looking at the game but they don't just follow the football.

For example, B.C. Fan will point out whether the defensive backfield was in man or zone or when the defense changed strategy. A Cromartie will analyze whether we had an outlet receiver on a pass play or not. A Dano T. will point out a key block that made a play work or a missed block that led to a loss of yards.

Sammy Greene will analyze the different quality of play in a game at the guard position. A WCJ will comment on our protection scheme. I could do on and on about the different contributions of numerous Lionbackers that I have not mentioned who add their insight and reflections that make this website so interesting.

This thread on the trade of Olifioye has a lot of posts. Its now 11 pages long. There were passionate views on both sides of the trade of Olifioye for Facault. A number of Lionbackers did not like the trade and a number of them did. Some thought Wally had made a mistake and others thought it a posiive move. I sometimes think that there are a minority who would stick up for Wally if he had traded Olifioye for the rights to Levy Adcock but maybe that is my own bias.

But the most positive of the entire discussion on this thread is the recognition of the importance of offensive line play, as well as its sophistication. Its a treat to read so many posters who know that offensive line play is not just lining up a big body and thinking that all an offensive lineman has to do on a run play is knock the defender in front of him backwards or stay square to the the pass rusher lined up in his face on a pass play .....and who just don't follow the football or think that we should throw a long pass to Manny on each and every pass play.

Football has everything from speedy small blazing fast returners who can cut on a dime, fleet receivers who have great balance and hand eye coordination, powerful, athletic big offensive and defensive linemen, and quarterbacks who can analyze a complex defense and execute a pass play with numerous moving parts in less than 3 seconds. There are so many elements to the game. But football, due to its strategy, along with so many players who are an integral part of the action on each and every play is also like complex chess strategy played at lightning speed with highly skilled athletes. Play books are huge. No other sport compares in terms of preparation. Its the most complex team sport by a country mile.

Here's to hoping that the Olifioye trade turns out to be a 'playside', rather than the 'backside' of a trade. :wink:
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It will be interesting to see if the changes on the Oline will have any impact on Khari Jones' game plan, schemes, etc. Will Rolly be called upon to hunker down in the backfield as a blocking back more than last year at the expense of featuring him in more plays or making him available as an outlet? Will it impact going with 5 receiver sets? As mentioned here more than once Calgary, despite the huge turnover on its Oline, had the fewest sacks allowed due in large part to its overall game scheme. Will Jones borrow a page from Dickensen to help protect the Oline?
Time will tell....
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Blitz wrote:This thread on the trade of Olifioye has a lot of posts. Its now 11 pages long. There were passionate views on both sides of the trade of Olifioye for Facault. A number of Lionbackers did not like the trade and a number of them did. Some thought Wally had made a mistake and others thought it a posiive move. I sometimes think that there are a minority who would stick up for Wally if he had traded Olifioye for the rights to Levy Adcock but maybe that is my own bias.
Ha ha. I won't go that far. I usually give Wally the benefit of the doubt on personnel decisions. He makes some bold and controversial moves but his track record is excellent in dealing with established veterans. Trading a six-time CFL all-star for a player with no CFL experience is a risky move. If Foucault develops into an all-star tackle as many believe he can, and he allows the Lions to play an extra national on the O-line, the trade can be considered a success. The jury is still out but I'll be watching and hoping for a positive outcome.
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Lionsfan65 wrote:
Blitz wrote: ~ Jovan discussed how he had lost weight last season to be quicker at the left tackle position. Jovan also metioned what a very hard transition is is to switch from right tackle to left tackle. I wonder how many fans know how challenging it is. Everything is different than you've practiced and played for years. Stance, drop step, footwork, punch hand etc. Jovan felt he did a good job at left tackle last season and obviously he did.
Couldn't agree more Blitz. One of the hardest things I had to do back when I was playing was switching back and forth between right and left side (sometimes in the same game). Its true, everything is backwards, your stance, your steps, your kick step, etc. In addition, the mental aspect as well. Often running plays are called to the corresponding hole on the side of the line. On each play you know where the ball is going, and how to block it, but your responsibilities changed. Where you might have been on the backside, you are now on the playside, and you might be blocking the other way. Just another reason I have respect for Olafioye, switching sides without protest.
If I recall when Rob Murphy departed Jason Jiminez was asked if he might get switched from RT to LT. He echoed the same sentiments re: it being a very difficult transition because of those same things Blitz pointed out. I can only relate from playing rec hockey. As a right handed shot I usually played right wing and for a few years played right D. I've never been naturally gifted, basically rec hockey plumber caliber. When I had to switch sides it was a struggle to adjust especially on defense where there are similarities to pass blocking in that you want to push and keep the attacking player to the outside. I found that I could make the turn to the outside (right) and keep an attacking forward towards the wall much easier than if I was on the left side and trying to make the same turn but in the other direction (left). Playing the wrong wing there again different turns and of course you have to pick up and deliver passes differently. There were times I'd wind up playing the wrong wing for most of the season. I'd eventually get a comfort level but it usually took a dozen games or so to get there.
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Blitz wrote:This thread on the trade of Olifioye has a lot of posts. Its now 11 pages long. There were passionate views on both sides of the trade of Olifioye for Facault. A number of Lionbackers did not like the trade and a number of them did. Some thought Wally had made a mistake and others thought it a posiive move. I sometimes think that there are a minority who would stick up for Wally if he had traded Olifioye for the rights to Levy Adcock but maybe that is my own bias.
Ha ha. I won't go that far. I usually give Wally the benefit of the doubt on personnel decisions. He makes some bold and controversial moves but his track record is excellent in dealing with established veterans. Trading a six-time CFL all-star for a player with no CFL experience is a risky move. If Foucault develops into an all-star tackle as many believe he can, and he allows the Lions to play an extra national on the O-line, the trade can be considered a success. The jury is still out but I'll be watching and hoping for a positive outcome.
If I recall when Rob Murphy departed Jason Jiminez was asked if he might get switched from RT to LT. He echoed the same sentiments re: it being a very difficult transition because of those same things Blitz pointed out. I can only relate from playing rec hockey. As a right handed shot I usually played right wing and for a few years played right D. I've never been naturally gifted, basically rec hockey plumber caliber. When I had to switch sides it was a struggle to adjust especially on defense where there are similarities to pass blocking in that you want to push and keep the attacking player to the outside. I found that I could make the turn to the outside (right) and keep an attacking forward towards the wall much easier than if I was on the left side and trying to make the same turn but in the other direction (left). Playing the wrong wing there again different turns and of course you have to pick up and deliver passes differently. There were times I'd wind up playing the wrong wing for most of the season. I'd eventually get a comfort level but it usually took a dozen games or so to get there. Hambone
I agree B.C. Fan that the jury is still out and likely will be for a long time. Trades should be measured based upon both short and long term success. I also hope for a positive outcome. I've moved on for the most part. Still some sentiment for Olifioye but I'm also excited about the potential of Facult as a first round draft choice with some NFL experience.

I agree it was a risky move for Buono and from his interviews and quotes he obviously did not want to do it but 'felt there was no other way'. However, I also think that a GM should not sign free agents and then put himself in a situation of needing to trade a star lineman reluctantly. Wally was fortunate to get Facault in this trade, considering the situation he was in, and he didn't want to trade Olifioye to a West Division team.

The Ullrich article that said Wally got completely fleeced I don't think is accurate, especially when word was out that Wally was not in a good situation up against the SMS. Its also a good thing that Montreal really felt it needed to shore up its offensive line and was willing to pay the dollars to an International in Olifioye to do it (as well as not pay Facault a starter's salary). It was not a good time to be working a trade for an offensive lineman with an expensive contract, after CFL teams had already spent most of their allocated dollars on free agency.

Once again, I will say it: A team can play a National tackle without a National backup. Its a choice - so the trade did not 'allow' Wally to play an extra National on the line. What it did was allow Wally to 'feel comfortable playing a National left tackle, knowing there was a decent National backup. There have been teams in the past who have started a National tackle without a good National tackle backup for the position. In this situation, if the National tackle got hurt the coach inserted an International tackle for the next game and changed the ratio elsewhere, usually at receiver. Wally was reluctant to do this.

Hambone, I liked your analogy of playing right wing as a right hand shot and right defense. I am a plumber too, in hockey terms, and an old one as well, and I never played right wing but I did make the switch from right wing to left wing. I completely understand the challenge of being a right side defencemen and making the switch to left defence and the turns and so much else being different.

I actually liked the change from right wing to left wing. It was often challenging receiving passes on the backhand side of the stick and making different turns but the reason I liked it was that it gave me better angles to shoot and more space to work with crossing over the middle on my forehand. Being as scoring goals is a lot of fun, and myself scoring a lot more on the left side. The Russians had it right in '72 when our Team Canada used right hand shooting forwards on the right side and left hand shooting wingers on the left side (with the exception of Courneyer). NHL teams used to do the same but now we commonly find right hand shooters playing left wing and left hand shooters playing right wing.

Still, changing what is natural or programmed is not an easy change and likely an even more challenging change for an offensive lineman where everything from stance to drop step to footwork to punch hand is completely opposite.

Hope you still play in an occasional pick up hockey game Hambone.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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BC 1988
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I went over to RiderFans and was surprised to see their JO trade thread is currently at 279 posts 15 pages. Some pretty good pro-con arguments on there from an opposing team perspective.
I also liked the long thread about Dave Dickenson's perceived slight towards new Mosaic (he seemingly wasn't effusive enough in his praise, saying that CGY has their own plans for a new stadium.)
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pennw
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So David Foucault already appears on the BC roster . Was he signed to a contract ? The other guy who came with him Vincent Brown also is listed on the roster . Did not hear of these signings , if they already have happened . Vincent Brown is listed as 301 Lbs , not the 350 he was in the earlier reports. I had my reservations if he was actually 350 , maybe another slow Levy Adcock type. 301 sounds much healthier.
I really like this move by Wally , aside from having to let a good guy go( the emotional side of it). It remains to be seen how this pans out , but the potential upside of this deal greatly out weighs the downside . If that scenario does play out , down the road this will be seen as some very astute managing by WB . I too read the thread over on Riderfans and many there see it as a BC win too , and most there are neutral observers in this case .They got more pages of discussion on this than we do here.
I'm really looking forward to seeing Foucault in a Lions uni.
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JohnHenry
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
JohnHenry wrote:I'm not understanding how Mtl could trade Foucault's "rights" to B.C. if he's not under contract?
IMO, JohnHenry ...

There are contracts between clubs and players. And there are agreements between the clubs themselves. It involves free agency as an issue, and it involves a club owning the rights to a player.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainme ... ss/241783/

https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=6wW ... &*&spf=376

Curt Flood challenged Major League Baseball's "reserve clause," back in 1969, 1970. It led to an agreement whereby players could achieve free agency. Prior to that, a club held a player's rights forever. Flood never played again, but he told his lawyer to go ahead with the suit anyway, as it would benefit other players. :beer:

As we know, the CFL has negotiation lists, giving teams the rights to unsigned players. And CFL teams have the rights to players they draft. These amount to contracts or agreements between teams, before player contracts are signed.

Not fair? Well, the CFL would probably not exist without them. Just as the CFL might not exist without the teams renegotiating some contracts, and without teams having the ability to just walk away from contracts, and release players. It ain't nice and it ain't fair, but it is the reality.

If players want to play in the CFL, that is what they accept.

There are many issues and complexities involved, of course. Top players do more than alright, I would suggest. Jovan has not taken a hit on his contract. He may well have improved it.

Just IMO, just my view of "rights" ...
Thanks for the response WCJ. I guess as a Draft pick the Als could either have released or traded Foucault after not being able to sign him. He apparently wanted starter's money. Hopefully the Lions can sign him and perhaps start Foucault in another position, rather than just backing up LT? It was reported if the Lions sign Foucault they would owe the Als another player, the Neg list player I presume.
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