Jovan leaves the Den. Confirmation on Page 8.

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DanoT
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If the Lions do trade for Foucalt, what keeps him from asking for big $ and/or leaving for Montreal or the NFL after his first Lions contract? Olafioye is a known quantity who wants to stay in B.C.

The Lions should move Olafioye back to RT with Johnson as a PR backup, move Stewart to LT and draft a backup LT with their #3 pick in the draft.
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WestCoastJoe
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Jovan is a known quality of the highest order in the CFL. In a trade the winner would be the team that gets him. It could not be spun any other way.

Of course other CFL teams are interested. It would be a steal of a Hall of Fame tackle who plays right or left tackle at All Star level, and is seemingly indestructible. Complete team player, character and leader.

It seems we are trying to squeeze something out here, that amounts to giving away one of the best to ever play OL in the CFL's history.

Whatever we might get in return will seem like peanuts.

Some damage has already been done, even if we keep him. As this situation plays out, more and more, it seems like a head shaker.

Easy to think of moving guys around? Sure. Steward to left tackle. Fabien to left guard. Husband at centre. Vaillancourt right guard. Someone at right tackle. That makes for a very young group, losing its rock solid anchor. Could it work? Yes, but it is a big gamble, seemingly not necessary.

Foucault wants starter money? LOL. One got the impression the idea of a trade was to trim the budget re the cap. Also, Foucault apparently still has eyes on the NFL.

It could be seen as a big vote of confidence in Hunter Steward. This fan was so impressed with the work he did at left tackle prior to injury. And if the team is thinking of him at left tackle, for various reasons, then automatically one thinks of Jovan back at right tackle, not quite so crucial a position. And much easier to bring in another Int to play there. Not sure we can consider playing 5 Nats in the OL yet. As noted earlier, there are so many moving parts in this situation.

Just IMO ...
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CardiacKid
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Jovan is a known quality of the highest order in the CFL. In a trade the winner would be the team that gets him. It could not be spun any other way.

Of course other CFL teams are interested. It would be a steal of a Hall of Fame tackle who plays right or left tackle at All Star level, and is seemingly indestructible. Complete team player, character and leader.

It seems we are trying to squeeze something out here, that amounts to giving away one of the best to ever play OL in the CFL's history.

Whatever we might get in return will seem like peanuts.

Some damage has already been done, even if we keep him. As this situation plays out, more and more, it seems like a head shaker.
Kavis Reed on line 1 for Mr. Galat. Joe Galat, you have a call on line 1 from Mr. Reed.
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KnowItAll
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CardiacKid wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:Jovan is a known quality of the highest order in the CFL. In a trade the winner would be the team that gets him. It could not be spun any other way.

Of course other CFL teams are interested. It would be a steal of a Hall of Fame tackle who plays right or left tackle at All Star level, and is seemingly indestructible. Complete team player, character and leader.

It seems we are trying to squeeze something out here, that amounts to giving away one of the best to ever play OL in the CFL's history.

Whatever we might get in return will seem like peanuts.

Some damage has already been done, even if we keep him. As this situation plays out, more and more, it seems like a head shaker.
Kavis Reed on line 1 for Mr. Galat. Joe Galat, you have a call on line 1 from Mr. Reed.
ouch, did you have to mention that name
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Blitz
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Jovan is a known quality of the highest order in the CFL. In a trade the winner would be the team that gets him. It could not be spun any other way.

Of course other CFL teams are interested. It would be a steal of a Hall of Fame tackle who plays right or left tackle at All Star level, and is seemingly indestructible. Complete team player, character and leader.

It seems we are trying to squeeze something out here, that amounts to giving away one of the best to ever play OL in the CFL's history.

Whatever we might get in return will seem like peanuts.

Some damage has already been done, even if we keep him. As this situation plays out, more and more, it seems like a head shaker.

Easy to think of moving guys around? Sure. Steward to left tackle. Fabien to left guard. Husband at centre. Vaillancourt right guard. Someone at right tackle. That makes for a very young group, losing its rock solid anchor. Could it work? Yes, but it is a big gamble, seemingly not necessary.

Foucault wants starter money? LOL. One got the impression the idea of a trade was to trim the budget re the cap. Also, Foucault apparently still has eyes on the NFL.

It could be seen as a big vote of confidence in Hunter Steward. This fan was so impressed with the work he did at left tackle prior to injury. And if the team is thinking of him at left tackle, for various reasons, then automatically one thinks of Jovan back at right tackle, not quite so crucial a position. And much easier to bring in another Int to play there. Not sure we can consider playing 5 Nats in the OL yet. As noted earlier, there are so many moving parts in this situation.

Just IMO ...
If the Lions do trade for Foucalt, what keeps him from asking for big $ and/or leaving for Montreal or the NFL after his first Lions contract? Olafioye is a known quantity who wants to stay in B.C.

The Lions should move Olafioye back to RT with Johnson as a PR backup, move Stewart to LT and draft a backup LT with their #3 pick in the draft. Dano T
Opposing GM: "Wally Buono just called. They are interested in trading Jovan Olifioye"

Head Coach: "There has to be something wrong with Olifioye. Teams just don't trade a player who has made the CFL All-Star Team each and every season. There must be something more to this. Is Olifioye injured or unhappy in B.C."

Opposing GM: "Nope, he's been very happy there. Has never tested CFL free agency. He's signed 3 contract extensions with B.C. Lives there in the off-season. There is no injury problem. He's never had a serious injury - he's started 129 games in a row for B.C."

HC: "Was he unhappy about the move to left tackle? He's been a right side offensive lineman".

Opposing GM. "Nope. He had played left tackle for a few games early in his CFL career with B.C. but last year was the first year he had started at left tackle for a whole season. Tough move to make but he saw it as a challenge and played great at left tackle and made the CFL All-Star team in his first season as a left tackle. Jovan will play left tackle, right tackle, guard...he will play wherever he is asked with no problems".

Head Coach: "Are there any off-field issues that could be drIving this?"

Opposing GM: "Checked it out and the short answer is DEFINITELY NOT. He's a real solid citizen. Does community work. Is a real character guy, hard worker, and a respected leader of their offensive line".

Head Coach: "Is he trying to renegotiate his contract for a raise?"

Opposing GM: No, he signed a contract extension for last season and is under contract to B.C. for this year. He wasn't trying to get a raise because he was switched to left tackle to protect his quarterback's weak side and played so well there."

Head Coach: "Well, this doesn't make sense!".

Opposing GM: "The Lions want to go with four Nationals on their offensive line. They want to move Steward out to left tackle, which is his natural position. Stewart played very well there for seven games a couple of seasons back. He's a beast with long arms, very athletic, and powerful"

Head Coach: "Oh I know how good Steward is. He was pancaking our defensive tackles and linebackers when we played them last season. I was pissed that Dorazio did not bench him when we played them last year. Ottawa got O'Neil while we got Olifioye. I wondered if Dorazio wasn't trying to throw the game when he started O'Neil and Adcock against Ottawa. No luck on our end of things though. But if the Lions want to go with Steward at left tackle, why are they not switching Olifioye back to right tackle? Hell, he won a CFL best lineman award playing right tackle and he was a CFL All-Star there every season".

Opposing GM: "Well, it seems as if Wally does not want to switch Olifioye back to right tackle. Lools as if he is going to go with Antonio Johnson at right tackle instead"

Head Coach: "Why would he want to do that? Johnson was a rookie last year. He is only 295 pounds. He's not a stud by any means. Olifioye is 325 pounds. He can run block and blow defenders out and yet he is quick and agile for a big guy - he has had seasons where he has only given up one sack. The guy is a tremendous talent and he never, never gets hurt."

Opposing GM: "Word is that Buono has to shed some salary. I cost him to sign Chris Williams and Swayze Waters. Buono tried to get Olifioye to take a pay cut. Olifioye supposedly would only do that, to help Buono out for this season if Buono would reciprocate the following year. Buono didnt' want to do that."

Head Coach: "I would LOVE to have him but who wouldn't? Offensive linemen like Olifioye dont' grow on trees. Consistently one of the very best offensive lineman in the CFL, huge, talented, committed to the CFL and his team, never tests free agency, character guy, never injured, experienced, still young at 29, leader. He checks off every box with flyng colors. But getting a player like Olifoye would be costly, wouldn't it?"

Opposing GM: "Maybe not. We've offered them David Facault and they are very interested".

Head Coach: "They would trade Olifioye for Facault? You gotta be kidding me!!!!"

Opposing GM: "We might have to sweeten it a little but that is the main part of the deal. What do you think?"

Head Coach: "Do I look brain dead? A perennial All-Star for a player who has never played In the CFL. Facault hasnt' started in a football game since he got out of college two seasons ago. He's been kicking around on practice rosters for two seasons with hardly any contact. Olifioye can come here right away and start and protect our quarterback and open up holes for our running game. Facault will likely not even be able to start right away. We don't even know, if he can become a starter, how well he will hold up, injury wise, playing pro".

Opposing GM: "So you would favor a trade for Olifioye for sure?"

Head Coach: I would be beside myself. Olifioye would solve a huge problem for us right away. It wouldn't even cost us a starter. One also wonders how enthusiastic Facault would be playing in the CFL. Olifioye wants to play in the CFL. Give me a lineman who truly wants to play here. The problem with those swollen off-season NFL rosters that allow 90 players as well as the increase in NFL practice rosters is that it gives some players big dreams for a big money payday that usually don't turn into reality".

Opposing GM: "Gotta get this deal done. Word is out that Olifioye is on the block. There will be other CFL teams who covet him too --obviously!!!."

Head Coach: "Shocked that Buono got himself into this situation. Sure hope we are the lucky team who gets Olifioye"

Opposing GM: "Me too. Cross your fingers. Lets hope that it all comes to fruition. If it does, 2017 will be looking a whole lot brighter!"
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SammyGreene
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Great stuff Blitz!

This might the longest lingering trade in club history. The idea of going with at least 4 starting nationals on o-line looks great for 2017 but what about beyond? If Steward is moved to tackle and does well what is his value? Huge as he becomes a ratio buster like a Josh Bourke. Steward only signed a one year extension and will be a FA agent again after next season.

This whole ordeal has been a puzzling one. As Blitz and others have suggested, including me, there are other areas to save money other than trading a perennial all-star lineman who is happy and proud to be a BC Lion in the prime of his career.
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Blitz wrote: Facault hasnt' started in a football game since he got out of college two seasons ago. He's been kicking around on practice rosters for two seasons with hardly any contact
Just a quick correction, Focoult has started a regular season game for the Carolina Panthers, as well as appearing on the active roster for 5 games. This is a considerable amount of experience, and usually more experience than many of our free agent American tackles we bring up. I think Focoult has the ability to step in, and at least compete for a spot right away. He has great size at 6'8 and 315 lbs.
Speaking of international lineman we have bought in a few guys who are all under the age of 24, including 6'5 328 lb Adrian Bellard, each of whom should provide competition at the other tackle spot. That being said, I feel that if we move Olafioye, we might as well try and have 5 Canadians on the offensive line, and I would like to see us draft another tackle this year, such as 6'9 Mason Woods.
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Dusty wrote:Assuming that a trade happens, I think there will be a huge learning curve for an inexperienced left tackle, especially one coming from the NFL, given the prevalence of full scale blitz packages that are used/shown in the CFL. When the huddle breaks and it looks like you've got 12 defenders spread across the line in front of you, experience (or at least quick learning) counts. JJ may be using his feet a lot more without Jovan as opposing DC's will look to exploit the outside of the line with DB blitzes and/or find some gaps up the middle by faking the outside blitz and getting the tackles/guard to move sideways....
If others coming in from the NFL or NCAA football with no previous CFL or 3 down football are capable of quickly adjusting to those things why is it thought Foucault, who has the benefit of playing 3 down football for his entire college career, can't make the same adjustment? Heck we had no lack of lamenting here that Tommie Draheim was let go. He managed quite fine playing LT. He started collegiately as a center before switching to LT for his final 2 years and spent most of his time in his various NFL stops working as a center.
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Hambone
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Blitz wrote:[With the trade of Olifioye looking like close to a done deal and Facault signing here, it makes more sense to me, that we play 5 Nationals on the offensive line.



Option 1 - 5 Nationals

Left Tackle: Steward
Left Guard: Fabian
Center: Husband
Right Guard: Vaillencourt
Right Tackle: Facault

Draft: Offensive Tackle:

Option 2 - 5 Nationals

Left Tackle: Facault
Left Guard; Fabian
Center: Husband
Right Guard: Vaillencourt
Right Tackle: Steward

Draft: Offensive Tackle

What makes less sense to me are starting four Nationals and an International.

Scenario 1

Left Tackle: Steward Backup: Left Guard: Fabian
Center: Husband
Right Guard: Vaillencourt
Right Tackle: Johnson

Backup: Facault

Scenario 2

Left Tackle: Facault
Left Guard: Steward
Center: Husband
Right Guard: Fabian Backup: Vaillencourt (or vice-versa)
Right Tackle: Johnson

Vaillencourt is ready to be a starter. He started the first two games for us. Fabian. Vaillencourt is a high first round draft choice. He is huge for a guard and he is aggressive. Some had hin going first in the 2016 draft. Fabian has proven that he is a starter as well.

Trading a 6 time CFL All-star to have either Steward, Fabian, or Vaillencourt as a depth lineman doesn't make sense to me. If Facault is good enough to start, then we have 5 Nationals who are starters and we should deploy our offensive line in that way.

We also have two first round draft choices and there are some very good offensive tackles in that first round that we can draft as a backup offensive tackle, should Steward or Facault get hurt.
All those are plausible options Blitz but seem to rely on the assumption that nobody gets hurt or whomever they draft in the first round is ready to start as soon as the first injury hits and can play at a high level for an extended period should an injury be serious. BC's OL had a very good year injury-wise last year but we've also experienced years where they've dropped like flies. Right now beyond the main 4 of Steward, Husband, Fabien and Vaillancourt BC has Dhillon, Horton and Pennell. That's a veteran journeyman in Dhillon with 5 career games dressed as a backup, a late 8th round pick who was a DL in college and looked at as conversion to OL by Calgary and an undrafted FA signing fresh out of college. Unless somebody like Foucault or Boyko is added to the mix there is no depth to support more than 3 starting NAT OL.
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Hambone wrote:
Dusty wrote:Assuming that a trade happens, I think there will be a huge learning curve for an inexperienced left tackle, especially one coming from the NFL, given the prevalence of full scale blitz packages that are used/shown in the CFL. When the huddle breaks and it looks like you've got 12 defenders spread across the line in front of you, experience (or at least quick learning) counts. JJ may be using his feet a lot more without Jovan as opposing DC's will look to exploit the outside of the line with DB blitzes and/or find some gaps up the middle by faking the outside blitz and getting the tackles/guard to move sideways....
If others coming in from the NFL or NCAA football with no previous CFL or 3 down football are capable of quickly adjusting to those things why is it thought Foucault, who has the benefit of playing 3 down football for his entire college career, can't make the same adjustment? Heck we had no lack of lamenting here that Tommie Draheim was let go. He managed quite fine playing LT. He started collegiately as a center before switching to LT for his final 2 years and spent most of his time in his various NFL stops working as a center.
I'm not sure that any of our tackles or guards have adjusted well to the CFL blitz packages thrown against them in the past few years, and that includes the tackles and guards that were looking from side to side trying to figure who to block, by which time it was too late.... It's not the 3 down or the one yard issue, to me its the type of packages seen here and not so much down south.
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Hambone
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Dusty wrote:
Hambone wrote:
Dusty wrote:Assuming that a trade happens, I think there will be a huge learning curve for an inexperienced left tackle, especially one coming from the NFL, given the prevalence of full scale blitz packages that are used/shown in the CFL. When the huddle breaks and it looks like you've got 12 defenders spread across the line in front of you, experience (or at least quick learning) counts. JJ may be using his feet a lot more without Jovan as opposing DC's will look to exploit the outside of the line with DB blitzes and/or find some gaps up the middle by faking the outside blitz and getting the tackles/guard to move sideways....
If others coming in from the NFL or NCAA football with no previous CFL or 3 down football are capable of quickly adjusting to those things why is it thought Foucault, who has the benefit of playing 3 down football for his entire college career, can't make the same adjustment? Heck we had no lack of lamenting here that Tommie Draheim was let go. He managed quite fine playing LT. He started collegiately as a center before switching to LT for his final 2 years and spent most of his time in his various NFL stops working as a center.
I'm not sure that any of our tackles or guards have adjusted well to the CFL blitz packages thrown against them in the past few years, and that includes the tackles and guards that were looking from side to side trying to figure who to block, by which time it was too late.... It's not the 3 down or the one yard issue, to me its the type of packages seen here and not so much down south.
I still don't see what that has to do with Foucault or makes him any different than any other new OL coming to the league.
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According to Farhan, the deal is done and will be announced early next week. B.C. get the rights to Foucault in return for Olafioye and the rights to a player off B.C.'s neg list.
Farhan Lalji‏Verified account @FarhanLaljiTSN
Hearing the deal between #BCLions & #Als is done. BC gets rights to David Foucault. Als get Jovan Olafioye & futures (neg list player TBD)
Farhan Lalji‏Verified account @FarhanLaljiTSN
2/2 expect an announcement early next week. @CFLonTSN
I'd love to know more about what led to the deal, but if it allows the Lions to start an extra national O-lineman and an extra American receiver, it could be a great move.
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Hambone wrote:
I still don't see what that has to do with Foucault or makes him any different than any other new OL coming to the league.
he won't be making 60k like some of the american tackles wally has in camp.

Foucault NFL aspirations are basically done. hit 3 year PR seasons, so he has to make an active NFL roster. Tweets out of MTL seem to say that he doesn't want to go to an NFL camp just to be a number. MTL basically offered 80k because its its only alternative to play pro football left and they don't believe he's a starter yet.

I guess wally thinks otherwise
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B.C.FAN wrote:According to Farhan, the deal is done and will be announced early next week. B.C. get the rights to Foucault in return for Olafioye and the rights to a player off B.C.'s neg list.
Farhan Lalji‏Verified account @FarhanLaljiTSN
Hearing the deal between #BCLions & #Als is done. BC gets rights to David Foucault. Als get Jovan Olafioye & futures (neg list player TBD)
Farhan Lalji‏Verified account @FarhanLaljiTSN
2/2 expect an announcement early next week. @CFLonTSN
I'd love to know more about what led to the deal, but it it allows the Lions to start an extra national O-lineman and an extra American receiver, it could be a great move.
Or it allows Lions to play primarily 4 american D-linemen which is even better, because our d-line has been pathetic last 4 four years (last year it was ok)
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Wow. In the words of the great chanteuse Peggy Lee, "is that all there is?" No disrespect to David Foucault 'cause I haven't even seen him play, but I was expecting a lot more. So this essentially comes down to one of the greatest linemen to ever don orange and black, in the prime of his career for....a prospect (a good one, make no mistake, but still a prospect as he's never played a down in the CFL).

Yeesh. Does Jacques Chapdelaine have something over on Wally? :shock:

And where is the media in all of this? If Jim Benning was about to trade one of the most important players on the Canucks, say a 1st line centre for someone straight out of college or something, it would would be held up to the light and micro-analyzed so much on talk radio, the Zapruder film would be just another 8MM home movie by comparison! Perhaps newcomer Frank Alexander was instrumental in this decision, maybe vouching for Foucault's abilities. It's possible that he lined up against him a lot at practice in Carolina?


DH :cool:
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