Jovan leaves the Den. Confirmation on Page 8.

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Blitz
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So it is about cap space and Jovan will not do it without an extension or something on the back end.

If Farhan is right and he usually is, Wally has made some decisions regarding the SMS that have put him in the position of needing to reduce salary. Obviously Jovan does not want to do this without an extension or something on the back end and who can blame him.

Jovan's is presently paid fairly, based upon his stature and performance. This is a perennial all-star who hasn't missed a start in 126 games. He began his career as a Leo as a guard, anchored the right guard spot for many seasons, and last year, made the change to left tackle, where everything is opposite in terms of stance, punch hand, technique, and had an excellent season,

He is 29 years old, in his prime as an offensive lineman, and his ability to play tackle on both sides of the offensive line is another bonus. Wally signed Jovan to an extension last season and now he wants to cut Jovan's salary because he signed other players.

I also owe my Lionbackers colleagues an apology. I have always believed and written on Lionbackers that a contract is a contract. Its an agreement and I have never viewed Wally going back to a player and asking him to take a wage cut as honorable. I said so when Wally did it to Paris Jackson as well as others. Therefore, when I posted on this thread that one option to addresss this situation was to restructure Lulay's salary, I was inconsistent and wrong. I still think we are paying Lulay too high a salary and would prefer that we restructure Lulay's salary rather than Olifioye's salary, the reality is that restructuring either of their salaries would not be the proper thing or honorable thing to do.

Lulay, like Jovan, has based his family financial decisions based on the contract he signed. I highly doubt Wally would like David Braley demanding that Wally take a wage cut nor would he consider it honorable. There are 'options that Wally could utilize rather than trading Jovan. We still need an International offensive lineman and Jovan Ololifoye, at 6' 6", 325 pounds, never injured, and very talented and very proven, is a much better option than 295 pound Antonio Johnson.

Wally really needed Jovan for our offensive line last season, especially when he needed Jovan to switch to left tackle. Wally signed Jovan to an extension which gave Jovan a contract that paid him his value. Wally hates to pay market value for a player. But anyone who thinks that Wally is bang on about Jovan being close to his best due date is insane. Jovan is in his prime and has many seasons of high quality play left in him. He has not been injured, has had no serious injuries, and Olifioye is big, strong, fast, and experienced.

This is just a money decision. I have made suggestions which include using a lower paid National receiver as Adekolu with Shaq Johnson or Blaazco as the backup rather than the over-expensive Iannuzzi or going with a fourth International receiver who is cheaper than Nick Moore, who is often injured (even though he plays well when he is healthy).

We can have tons of speed and talent at the receiver and back positions but without good offensive play calling and good offensive line blocking it won't lead to a championship. Championships are won on the offensive and defensive line, as well as the quarterback position.

You don't trade your best offensive lineman over what does not amount to not huge dollars. You find the money elsewhere.

While it may be coincidental, there is always some kind of insanity involved when Dorazio is coaching our offensive line. In 2005 we decided to play Cory Mantyka with one arm all season and ended up the season with Mo Elonowibi at left tackle. Under Dorazio we decided that Angus Reid was washed up and we could go with Dean Valli at center. We had no one to play center when Angus Reid got hurt in training camp and had to insert a rookie guard in Norman to play the position. When Tedford arrived in 2015 we didn't have a center who could play. Dorazio decided that Levi Adcock would be the answer at right tacke and at huge bucks.

Doug Malone took an unrecognized and undrafted Cody Husband and turned him into a starting offensive lineman in 2015. Dorazio moved Hunter Stewart, a very talented tackle and moved him to guard last year and then benched him for Tim O'Neil. We struggled with O'Neil and Adcock. When Steward was returned to the starting lineup, the difference was more than noticeable. Maybe Dorazio thinks that he doesn't need Olifoye - who knows but it wouldn't surprise me. But this situation is on Buono, who has a history of being resentful to any player who is not being underpaid. Its as if its a badge of dishonor for Wally to pay market value.

Jovan Olifoye Highlights:

2016: Pushed his games-played streak to 126 following his seventh-consecutive season without missing a start,

CFL All-Star: 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011
CFL Most Outstanding Lineman: 2012
West Division All-Star: 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010
West Division Most Outstanding Lineman: 2015, 2012, 2011
 

 
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
maxlion
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When teams ask players to restructure their contract, the lower salary is ofteñ offset by a term extension, as is apparently the case with Olafioye, or in increase in guaranteed up front money. The alternative is usually being cut with no compensation at all. The lack of guaranteed contracts is far more problematic from a player's perspective than the prospect of a negotiated restructuring of a contract, especially as it precisely the lack of a guaranteed contract that gives the team leverage in restructuring negotiations.

I can't fault any GM for using their leverage to negotiate a better deal, given that they could just cut the player. It's just the way that the business is set up. It's not an ethical issue.

My sense is that this is a result primarily of the Williams signing. Wally wanted an exciting offensive team to help sell tickets and play to Jennings' strengths, and was willing to put more money into a dynamic playmaker and take his chances on the o line. I doubt that Moore or Ianuzzi make enough to offer much cap relief.

There is also the potential to get a pretty good return in this trade.
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Fast fleeted receivers are fairly easy to find; good offensive linemen are tough
Blitz
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TheLionKing wrote:Fast fleeted receivers are fairly easy to find; good offensive linemen are tough
The notion of trading Jovan Olifioye is MIND BLOWIING

Jovan Olifioye has made the CFL All-Star team every season since he started for our Leos, six times in a row, as one of the very best offensive lineman in the CFL. Only Al Wilson, who made the CFL All-Star team 7 times would rank higher but Wilson played 15 years as a Leo while Jovan has been a CFL All-Star every season of his Leos career so far.

Other notable Leos offensive lineman of the past who were CFL All-Stars are Angus Reid (1 CFL All-Star), Gerald Roper ( 1 CFL All-Star), Jamie Taras (2 CFL All-Stars), Lonnie Dennis (2 CFL All-Stars), Tom Hinton (1 CFL All-Star), Jim Mills (3 CFL All-Stars), John Blain (3 CFL All-Stars) and Rob Murphy (3 CFL All-Stars)

Right now Jovan would rank as our second best offensive lineman of all-time. Jovan has been considered one of the best two offensive tackles in the CFL for many years.

Jovan is a veteran of a very inexperienced offensive line. He has also been very healthy, having played 129 games in a row. He has been the best at his position consistently. When I look back at our Leos team there are few players remaining from our 2011 Grey Cup winning season - Travis Lulay and Sean Gore are the only other two Leo players remaining from that successful team.

Jovan is only 29 years old. He has had no serious injuries. Jovan made the CFL All-Star team again last year, while playing a new position at left tackle. He is in his prime as an offensive lineman - very experienced, still young, still performing at a very high level, very healthy, and with many excellent seasons ahead of him. Jovan is also a very 'team' oriented player who is looked up to by his teammates for his work ethic and his attitude, as well as his very high skill set. He brings a very positive attitude.

The reality is that Jovan Olifioye is a gem and a loyal Leo. Jovan has always signed extensions rather than test free agency. He is not a Stanley Bryant's or a Derrick Dennis who chose to bolt for more money to another CFL team.

Chris Williams may be an exciting successful CFL receiver but you build a team first around key positions. Those positions are quarterback, left tackle, middle linebacker, center, primary receiver, boundary defensive end, safe defensive tackle, kicker, return man, right tackle, boundary corner, right tackle, boundary half back. You build out from there.

The priority, after the quarterback position on offence is to protect him with the offensive line and to also establish a running attack. Last year, the success of our running game, when it was successful, was when we either ran behind Olifioye or Steward, or both, our two best offensive linemen.

One thing you don't do, in building a CFL champion, is to sacrifice your very best offensive lineman and one of the two best offensive linemen in the CFL for the past 6 seasons for a third International receiver or an International slot back.

If we chose to go with 4 National offensive lineman who will our International offensive lineman be? Antonio Johnson, a 295 lb. offensive tackle who was a rookie last season and who also got injured. Who will the International offensive tackle be, if Steward moves to left tackle and gets injured? (We don't have a National offensive left tackle right now who could step into Steward's place if he gets injured.

The decision to attempt to trade Olifioye makes no sense to me. Wally should never have gotten our Leos into a position of needing to shed salary before this season began and looking to shed that salary from Olifioye's contract.

Wally also signed Brooks to big dollars and he also signed Swaze Waters, who chose B.C. over Hamilton for bigger dollars because we have not drafted a good National punter/kicker. This is costly against the SMS as well as a roster spot. The Stamps (Paravedes), the Eskimos (Sean Whyte), Als (Bede) Riders (Crapigna), Red Blacks (Milo), Argos (Hajrullahu) all have National kickers. Only Winnipeg has an Internationl field goal kicker.

With Paul McCallum getting older we should have been drafting a National kicker. Instead we attempted to turn an International punter (Leone) into a kicker for two seasons with such dismal results in the very important field goal department that we had to sign McCallum to end last season and Leone is gone.

Most CFL teams go with a a Canadian or two for special teams field goal kicking and punting. Only two teams are employing a big-money American (Winnipeg and B.C.)

There is no question that Swayze Waters is an excellent punter and a decent field goal kicker. Over four seasons in Toronto, Swayze appeared in 46 games. His punting was excellent at 46.9 yards per kick. His field goal kicking was not as impressive, averaging a 79.5% success rate. But signing Waters was very expensive against the SMS and we also had to outbid Hamilton to get him.

We really blew it in 2016, when we could have signed Sean Whyte, who hit a phenomenal 45/48 field goals (93.8%) last year for Edmonton last year.

We could have signed Brett Maher, who hit 82% of his field goals last season. Canadian Chris Milo (81%) was also available as was Sergio Castillo. Anthony Fera averaged 46.9 yards per punt last season for Montreal, while going 16/20 on field goal attempts and he would could have been signed cheaply.

So the signings of Chris Williams, Swayze Waters, and Brooks have been serious factors in our Leos pushing the SMS and therefore feeling that we need to trade Olifioye.

They are good signings but not signings I would have made to put our Leos in a position of forcing Olifioye to take a salary cut or be traded.

Highly talented offensive lineman who also have a strong sense of loyalty to a team are not easy to find. Not happy about this at all.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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David
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maxlion wrote:There is also the potential to get a pretty good return in this trade.
Sure, there is potential for a decent return for Jovan, but I believe there's a better than even chance of Wally ending up wearing a 'fleece' sweater, courtesy of Kavis Reed.

1) We're limiting our trade partners to Eastern Division teams (a sure sign that deep down, Wally is gun-shy about dealing Jovan). Further, the Argos are most likely going with an all-National front this year, which was Jim Popp's MO in Montreal. One less trading partner.

2) If what has been reported is indeed true, that we're up against the Cap, then we're not dealing from a position of strength. It's always harder to get fair market value for any player when an opposing GM knows your weakness.

3) It's a generally accepted notion that the team getting the 'best player' in any deal invariably wins the trade. Sure, there are exceptions, but hard to imagine us coming up aces by trading a perennial all-star offensive tackle who's still in the prime of his career (and can adeptly play left or right tackle).

4) So if we shed Jovan's contract, wouldn't the player(s) we get in return off Montreal's roster (presumably) also be an expensive addition? In other words, it's hard to trade Jovan for a cheaper option and come out a winner in the deal. Sure, we could go younger - maybe a 2nd or 3rd year starter and a draft pick. But I don't ever recall a time when draft picks have become as risky as they are now. There are some extremely talented Canadians in the CIS and NCAA that are on the radar of NFL scouts, with so many Canadians chasing the NFL dream (and some like Stefan Charles and Laurent Duvernay-Tardif that we're unlikely to ever see play in the CFL, or in the case of David Foucault and Austin Pasztor not for many years, if at all).


DH :cool:
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DanoT
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As far as Jovan being traded, no news is good news. OTOH the Als or anyone else who is interested is in no rush to trade at this point in the off season.

It has already been said but is worth repeating: The best way for the Lions to dump salary is to release 7 year vet Marco Iannuzzi (age 29) who is now in the latter, higher salary, part of his career. Lions already have younger, faster, bigger, cheaper receivers on their roster who should be staring instead of Marco regardless of SMS. At the very least if Wally can't bring himself to releasing Marco then he should renegotiate his contract to reflect the role of backup receiver/KR. Wally has done this or tried to in the past with better players than Marco Iannuzzi.
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I wonder if Wally has received some level of assurance that Brett Boyko will be signing with the Lions and thus will be one of our National tackles?
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DanoT wrote:As far as Jovan being traded, no news is good news. OTOH the Als or anyone else who is interested is in no rush to trade at this point in the off season.

It has already been said but is worth repeating: The best way for the Lions to dump salary is to release 7 year vet Marco Iannuzzi (age 29) who is now in the latter, higher salary, part of his career. Lions already have younger, faster, bigger, cheaper receivers on their roster who should be staring instead of Marco regardless of SMS. At the very least if Wally can't bring himself to releasing Marco then he should renegotiate his contract to reflect the role of backup receiver/KR. Wally has done this or tried to in the past with better players than Marco Iannuzzi.
With there being big question marks re: Gore playing this year I don't think dumping Iannuzzi would be wise. As the roster sits today If Iannuzzi were released and Gore retired BC would be down to 3 NAT receivers to fill 1 starting position and a second rotational position that typically swaps in and out with Lumbala. As for MI's contract I think the deal signed just 4 weeks ago already reflects that role of backup receiver/KR. Everybody knows Wally plays the renegotiation game but I don't recall him doing that while the ink on the new contract is still wet. When he does try to renegotiate he doesn't do it until at least the first year of the deal is complete.
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Dusty wrote:I wonder if Wally has received some level of assurance that Brett Boyko will be signing with the Lions and thus will be one of our National tackles?
That would be great news but Boyko has signed with San Diego for 2017. Unless the Chargers draft or sign a number of top prospects as UDFAs, the earliest we'll see Boyko is likely midseason, if at all.
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Like a lot of the posters I find this potential move puzzling. The key to winning is to win the battle of the trenches. Lions have one of the best lineman in the league and they are looking to trade him ?
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He has signed a reserve/futures contract, so a roster spot is not a given....
B.C.FAN wrote:
Dusty wrote:I wonder if Wally has received some level of assurance that Brett Boyko will be signing with the Lions and thus will be one of our National tackles?
That would be great news but Boyko has signed with San Diego for 2017. Unless the Chargers draft or sign a number of top prospects as UDFAs, the earliest we'll see Boyko is likely midseason, if at all.
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Dusty wrote:He has signed a reserve/futures contract, so a roster spot is not a given....
B.C.FAN wrote:
Dusty wrote:I wonder if Wally has received some level of assurance that Brett Boyko will be signing with the Lions and thus will be one of our National tackles?
That would be great news but Boyko has signed with San Diego for 2017. Unless the Chargers draft or sign a number of top prospects as UDFAs, the earliest we'll see Boyko is likely midseason, if at all.
He is Chargers property until they decide to release him. And if he is released, he is still eligible to spend another season on an NFL practice roster.
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I don't understand how the Lions are up against the Cap when they're paying their QB's $200k less than some other teams...and removed a $200k LB from the payroll? Why would Wally pay C. Williams a huge salary when we're already stocked at WR and have Rainey on ST who is under-utilized...especially at the cost of losing the pillar of our OL? That just makes no sense. There's got to be more to this, i.e. Jovan's play is deteriorating or he has health issues or the Lions have a line on another supposedly premier tackle who will sign for less.

My belief is the Lions are closer to the Cap minimum than the Cap maximum and this overspending story is just a ruse. :ref:
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B.C.FAN wrote: He has signed a reserve/futures contract, so a roster spot is not a given.... .
I wonder if Wally has received some level of assurance that Brett Boyko will be signing with the Lions and thus will be one of our National tackles..

That would be great news but Boyko has signed with San Diego for 2017. Unless the Chargers draft or sign a number of top prospects as UDFAs, the earliest we'll see Boyko is likely midseason, if at all. He is Chargers property until they decide to release him. And if he is released, he is still eligible to spend another season on an NFL practice roster.
NFL teams can sign 10 players to their practice roster. Players are either paid $6,000 per week or $450,000 (NFL minimum contract) depending on their practice roster status. If a practice roster player has more than one 'accrued' season and remains on the practice roster for an entire regular season, he would earn $102,000. If a player has less than one accrued season, he would earn a minimum of $4650,000. Practice rosters can be paid more the above amounts but practice roster salaries count against the cap.

Brett Boyko has two accrued seasons.

A player is eligible if he does not have an accrued season of NFL experience. Players gain an accrued season by being on the active roster for at least six games. If a player has one accrued season, they can still be practice squad eligible if they were on the 45-man active game day roster for less than nine regular season games.

A player is deemed to have served a season on the practice squad if he remains on the practice squad for at least three weeks. Players are eligible to be on the practice squad for two seasons. Players can be eligible for a third practice squad season if their team maintains no less than 53 players on the active/inactive list at all times. Each NFL team can have up to ten players on their practice squad.

The NFL expanded practice rosters from 8 to 10 players. New rules were created for the 2 additional spots. Those players can have up to 32 games on an active roster in their first 2 years.  This new rule allows two players to be signed to a practice roster spot thatwould not have been eligible under the old rules because the player had been on an active roster for too many games.

Brett Boyko signed a three year contract with the Eagles as an undrafted free agent in 2015 worth $1,585,000. He received a $10,000 signing bonus.

Brett Boyko earned $117,300 in 2016, of which $89,700 counted against San Diego's cap. In 2017, Boyko will earn $465,000 (the entire amount will count against San Diego's cap) if he is a practice roster player for the 2017 season.

With Brett Boyko set to earn $465,000 this season, why would he want to come to B.C and earn around $200,000 a season and, at the first opportunity, have Wally attempt to renegotiate his contract for a lower salary?

The only way Boyko is coming here is when his NFL options have completely disappeared.

Jovan Olifioye would be playing his trade somewhere in the NFL, (at the least on an NFL practice roster) and making at least $465,000 if he didn't have a medical condition (hypertension). The medical condition doesn't allow him to pass an NFL medical and they have strict rules.

Our CFL rules are not as strict and therefore our Leos have been very fortunate for the past 6 seasons to have one of the best two CFL tackles playing for us during that time. Jovan Olifioye is the most decorated CFL offensive lineman over the past 6 seasons.

Derrick Dennis, Sir Vincent Rogers, Chris Van Zeil, wer named to it once. Josh Bourke (retired) and Stanley Bryant made the CFL All-Star team twice during that time span. In effect, we would be trading the CFL's best offensive lineman over the past 6 seasons and one of the two best Leos offensive lineman of all time, at a young age for an offensive lineman (29), who can play both offensive tackle spots, who has not suffered any serious injuries, who has started 129 games in a row for us, and who has not plied his trade in free agency but instead been loyal and chosen to re-sign with our Leos.

You don't find that very high level of consistency, talent, health, and loyalty easily. I'm still flabbergasted at even the notion of trading Olifioye. The two 'untouchables' for me on our Leos roster would be Olifioye and Jennings.

My best guess is that Wally would be trading for a National offensive lineman and a draft choice. Wally would liklely want a National offensive tackle who could back up Steward at left tackle. The Als struggled last season on offence, in large part because they didn't have two tackles who could protect their quarterback. When they lost Josh Bourke they really struggled. They gave up a league high 64 sacks. Trading for Olifioye mades sense for the Als even if it makes no sense for us. The number one priority for the Als and Kavis Reed for 2017 is to upgrade their offensive line.

The Als tried both Jacob Ruby and Philip Blake at left tackle last year. Ruby is a converted tight-end and former defensive-lineman, who is athletic. The Als selected Ruby, who is 6-foot-7, 315 pounds, in the first round (eighth overall) in the 2015 Canadian college draft. Phillip Blake was out of football in 2014, but signed with the Als for 2015. Blake was drafted by the Als in 2011 but also was a 4th round NFL draft choice. He never dressed for an NFL game.

When Buono signed Olifioye to an extension last season, this is what Buono said:
This is obviously an absolutely critical signing,” Lions head coach said general manager Wally Buono said in a release. “Jovan has been one of our league’s best offensive lineman since coming to the CFL in 2010. He’s durable, dependable and dominant and he plays a significant role in the success of our offence.”
One CFL All-Star nod later, while switching to left tackle from the right side - not an easy thing to do) suddenly Jovan is available for trade.

What we should be doing is drafting a National backup offensive tackle and moving Olifoye back to right tackle. If we move Steward to left tackle, it will mean that we will be moving Fabian to left guard and inserting Vaillencourt at right guard. We would go into this season with second year Leo Antonio Johnson as our International starter. Johnson is undersized at 295 pounds and while he looked good in comparison to Dorazio's 'star' singing of Levy Adcock, Johnson was no Olifioye at right tackle. He took a lot of procedure penalties and was beaten at times. We might have been an ok move to sign Jeff Perrett this off-season as the Als dumped him to shed salary after siging Darian Durrant to a $400,000 contract but Perett would have been too expensive and Johnson is cheaper.

We live in 'interesting' times.
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I personally have no problem with Wally asking anyone to renegotiate their salary. The CFL is a business, and it's Wally's job to do what's best for the team and that sometimes conflicts with what is best for an individual player. The player can always say no, and that will lead to another direction (either trade or release). Or if that player still wants to be here then he can renegotiate and get another deal done that works for both him and the team. Wally can't force anyone to do anything, but there are subsequent actions that will happen based on that player's decision.
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