Popp and Trestman in Toronto ?

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squishy35
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Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:15 pm

TSN radio is saying it is a done deal..... also if Trestman comes in that he will want Manziel to pilot the ship if Toronto can secure his rights.

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dawg3648
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Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:51 pm

Wow, well those moves would will certainly plug the holes in the apparent sinking ship. In a BIG way. Add Manziel and presto Argos relevant again in T-Dot.

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David
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Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:03 am

Popp/Trestman is definitely the right approach. Hopefully Copeland/Tanenbaum have come to their senses (or have listened to CFL thought leaders / 'those in the know') that you can't dick around with this next GM/coach hire. They need guys with a winning pedigree that know the CFL game to restore credibility in the market. The NFL angle would be a shot in the dark with probably a better than even chance it could all go sideways. The NFL GM is likely to hire a coach whom he knows well - who's not likely to have CFL experience.

Not saying hires from outside the CFL can't succeed. Ironically, Trestman had no prior CFL experience and he won a Grey Cup and was Coach Of The Year. I'm saying the coach AND GM angle is very risky, and for what? Just to give Toronto a 'big league' stamp? Fans don't care about that. Winning football is paramount. My issue is we're nearly into March. This should have all been figured out 8-10 weeks ago.

As for Manziel? Very risky. He hasn't yet shown that he can stay out of trouble and make mature decisions. Should help sell tickets though, at least in the short term.


DH :cool:
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B.C.FAN
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Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:55 am

I thought Popp's tenure in the league had run its course but a package deal with Trestman might give the Argos the experience and credibility that they desperately need. Then Copeland needs to get out of football operations and leave the team in the hands of people who know what they're doing.

The Argos are in a tough spot. Due to Copeland's dithering, they lost their head coach and lost out on several key free agents who didn't want to commit to a team without a GM and coach in place. They've also missed the best offseason window to hire assistant coaches but Popp and Trestman have enough contacts that they could probably build a solid staff.
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Belize City Lion
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Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:47 am

Trestman would be a great hire for Toronto. I'm not so sure about Popp, but he and Trestman were a successful team. Knowing those two can work well together would give the Argos stability in the front office.

As for the notion of Toronto going after an NFL "name" as coach and/or GM, they would be foolish to pass over Trestman to get an unproven guy from south of the border. Yes, Trestman proved that coach with no prior CFL experience can be successful, but he approached the position completely different than every NFL coach who failed. Trestman humbled himself and studied CFL football, adjusted his schemes and philosophies accordingly, and never took the attitude that "football is football".

Trestman or not, the Argos QB situation is nothing but risk all around. "Johnny Football" is a huge risk. Not only is it unknown if he can be effective on a CFL field (how many NFL calibre QBs have failed?), but he has not proven that he can stay out of trouble off field. There is a reason why Manziel can't find a job with 32 NFL teams. Ray is getting old and has been injury prone. Drew Willy did not show anything last year to make him #1 guy.

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Hambone
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Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:18 pm

B.C.FAN wrote: They've also missed the best offseason window to hire assistant coaches but Popp and Trestman have enough contacts that they could probably build a solid staff.
They aren't totally behind the 8 ball on coaches. Milanovich left but the rest of the staff is still intact including DC Rich Stubler and OC Marcus Brady who was part of Trestman's staff in Montreal for 4 of the 5 years he led the Larks. Brady was the OC/QBC in Montreal in Trestman's final year there and QB Coach the 3 years previous.
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WestCoastJoe
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Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:31 pm

Would that it happens. Highly in favour of Trestman. Not so much with Popp, although he has had much success in the CFL. How much of that success was due to Don Matthews, Anthony Calvillo and Marc Trestman, rather than Jim Popp? Dunno ...
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The_Pauser
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Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:08 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:Would that it happens. Highly in favour of Trestman. Not so much with Popp, although he has had much success in the CFL. How much of that success was due to Don Matthews, Anthony Calvillo and Marc Trestman, rather than Jim Popp? Dunno ...
So no credit given to Popp for hiring Matthews and Trestman, and acquiring Calvillo? Interesting...
THINK about it

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WestCoastJoe
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Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:23 pm

Good news. Marc Trestman's record in the CFL is remarkable. This football fan is very happy he has returned to the CFL.

As I noted above, Jim Popp "has had much success in the CFL." Good judge of talent. He has hired some outstanding Head Coaches over time, some not so great, including himself. His own CFL Head Coaching record shows 22 wins and 36 losses. Since Trestman left the Alouettes, it seems to this CFL fan that the team, under Popp's leadership, has been sliding.

Good for Toronto and good for the CFL to have these two in charge with the Argos.

It seems to me Trestman built a staff in a hurry first time around in Montreal. I expect he will do the same this time.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

B.C.FAN
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Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:56 pm

Popp's biggest blunder in Montreal was naming himself as coach. Again and again and again.
"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy

TheLionKing
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Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:18 pm

B.C.FAN wrote:Popp's biggest blunder in Montreal was naming himself as coach. Again and again and again.
Bang on

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Hambone
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Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:24 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote:Would that it happens. Highly in favour of Trestman. Not so much with Popp, although he has had much success in the CFL. How much of that success was due to Don Matthews, Anthony Calvillo and Marc Trestman, rather than Jim Popp? Dunno ...
Is that not unlike pondering that much of Bob Ackles' success was due to Rapp, Dewalt, Matthews, Buono and Dickenson? It is easy to criticize Popp for many decisions and one can easily pick apart questionable decisions made by any GM. Bottom line it takes a team of coaches, players and scouts to produce success. Matthews, Calvillo and Trestman and by extension Popp would never have been successful without all the other pieces (OL, receivers, RBs, defence etc) Popp and his scouts etc assembled that were absolutely necessary to achieve the results they did in a team sport.
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WestCoastJoe
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Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:58 pm

Hambone wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:Would that it happens. Highly in favour of Trestman. Not so much with Popp, although he has had much success in the CFL. How much of that success was due to Don Matthews, Anthony Calvillo and Marc Trestman, rather than Jim Popp? Dunno ...
Is that not unlike pondering that much of Bob Ackles' success was due to Rapp, Dewalt, Matthews, Buono and Dickenson? It is easy to criticize Popp for many decisions and one can easily pick apart questionable decisions made by any GM. Bottom line it takes a team of coaches, players and scouts to produce success. Matthews, Calvillo and Trestman and by extension Popp would never have been successful without all the other pieces (OL, receivers, RBs, defence etc) Popp and his scouts etc assembled that were absolutely necessary to achieve the results they did in a team sport.
A GM hires an outstanding Head Coach, as with Matthews and Trestman. They win the Grey Cup. They all contribute and deserve commendation, of course.

Was Don Matthews a better Head Coach than Jim Popp was as a GM? IMO, yes.

Was Marc Trestman a better Head Coach than Jim Popp was as a GM? IMO, yes.

Did Jim Popp have success finding and developing top quarterbacks other than Anthony Calvillo? (OK, Tracy Ham with Baltimore and Montreal in the 1990s.) Wally has found and nurtured numerous top quarterbacks in his time.

Did Popp get lucky with those hirings or the acquisition of Anthony Calvillo? Maybe. He has certainly blown other hirings and quarterback recruitments. Of his numerous hirings, some were excellent, some good, some flops. He has had many "at bats," in his long career in the CFL. He has had many big hits, but his 'batting average" might not be so good.

Has he had huge success as a GM in the CFL? Yes.

I do not dislike Jim Popp. His work seemed fine when Matthews and Trestman were with him. He seemed like a sharp GM. Heck, Jim Popp will no doubt go into the CFL Hall of Fame. I just do not hold him in quite the same high estimation as those others mentioned. Aside from his GM duties, his record as a Head Coach is poor.

Popp's work as GM in Montreal seemed shaky after Trestman left, IMO. Failed Head Coach hirings. Fruitless search for a successor to Anthony Calvillo. Win/loss record heading downhill.

With Trestman as his Head Coach in Toronto, one has high hopes for the franchise.
WestCoastJoe wrote:Highly in favour of Trestman. Not so much with Popp, although he has had much success in the CFL.
Note that above I said he "has had much success in the CFL."

.............................
Hambone wrote:Is that not unlike pondering that much of Bob Ackles' success was due to Rapp, Dewalt, Matthews, Buono and Dickenson?
You mention Bob Ackles. Different story. Not going to get into that comparison that you raise, aside from saying that with the Lions, Bob Ackles hired Don Matthews and Wally Buono. The one other time Bob Ackles hired a Head Coach it was Vic Rapp, who in six years with the Lions had a record of 53 wins, 39 losses and 4 ties.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.

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