Leos/Eskimos Post Game Thoughts

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DanoT
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yukonlion wrote:its also a rule about hitting the qb below the knees as they are vulnerable, though i didnt get a second look i thought biggy was tripped or leg whipped onthe play... glad maas got the penalty cuz wally had to run out and pont out a missed roughing qb call earlier in the year and he got flagged for runnign out at the refs

too bad as it was one of our few hurries on rielly tonight...



There were several hurries but only one sack which is not that surprising when you are going against a top notch QB like Reilly who gets the ball away quickly but didn't have the time to complete very many long passes. :good:
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Interesting to look back at this big Leos victory.

B.C. Fan consistently points out the importance of turnovers, as well as their impact on our Leos this season. I often focus on coaching decisions, scheme, game planning, play calling.

Those two critical areas have played an important role this season. Turnovers have cost us victories. Coaching has also cost us victories. Whether turnovers are a player responsibility only or are also, at least in part, a reflection of coaching can be debated.

But one thing cannot be debated. Our Leos record this season against teams that were under .500 is 8-1. Our record against teams over .500 was 1-5 before we beat Edmonton yesterday. Our record against Western opponents was weak. B.C. Fan could say that our record against West opponents was mainly due to turnovers and he could make a very legitimate argument.

But I think I could also make a legitimate argument that, when the talent level is closer to our Leos talent level, we get outcoached. But, in our victory over the Eskimos yesterday, we not only didn't turn the football over (and got a turnover ourselves) but we were also not outcoached.

In writing post-game thoughts, I highlighted the good, the bad, and the ugly. These are my keys to the victory.

THE FIRST HALF RUNNING GAME

We'd struggled with our tailback running game against the Bombers. Allen only had 28 yards rushing, on 11 carries in Winnipeg. Johnson only had 51 yds rushing on 13 carries in our loss at home to the Bombers. Rushing the football is not only important for the yards gained. It also provides offensive balance, keeps the defense guessing regarding run or pass, sets up play action, and helps with pass protection because the defensive line can't tee up. It keeps the linebackers tighter, opening up the passing game.

In the first half, the Eskimos knocked down a number of our early passing attempts. We started the game throwing too many deep vertical style, deep intermediate passes. When Khari Jones dialed up a hitch pass to Manny on our first play of the game I shuddered and thought that Khari Jones still had no clue how to attack Tight Man/Cover 2. Arseneaux got one yard on our first play of the game and our first drive fizzled with incompletions.

But on our second drive, which begain on our own 14 yard line, we began the drive with a Johnson run. We ran the football five times in a row. with the run and we ran it some more, as we marched down to the Edmonton 17 yard line, before kicking a field goal. Being able to run the football successfully in the first half of the game was very important.

We rushed for 164 yds. in the game, with Johnson accounting for 108 yds, with 87 yards of that total coming in the first half of the game. Rainey also ran the football three times, for over 9 yds. per carry.

On our first touchdown drive of the game (4 yd touchdown pass to Arseneaux, the drive began deep in our own end of the field was and was ignited by a 16 yard run, followed by an 18 yard run by Johnson,

Our offensive line did a much better job of blocking for the run, Johnson ran the football possessed, and we changed up our blocking for our inside run at times.

In the second half, Edmonton often played an extra defender up to shut down our insde running game. Jennings could have faked a handoff to Johnson or Rainey and ran the football outside for massive gains but we didn't do that. On Jennings 20 yard touchdown scamper, on a bootleg, showed how vulnerable the Eskimos defense was, in playing Man/Cover 2 to a Jennings run. Should have done it more.

COACHING

In order to beat good teams, coaching becomes more important. You have to take away the opposition strengths and exploit their weaknesses. In this game, Mark Washington came out with a game plan to minimize Bowman and Walker. We contained them, especially in the first half of the game. It was a key to getting a big first half lead and forced Edmonton to get away from their offensive game plan, playing from behind.

Khari Jones had more crossing patterns in this game than I've seen all season by far. While we started out with too many deep intermediate patterns, Jones adjusted with more crossing patterns and we shortened our pass routes as the game went on, negating the two deep safeties Edmonton was using.

Jennings touchdown run came off a bootleg, with Burnham running a crossing route. Our two point convert came off a bunch formation, which is an excellent formation against man defence. Burnham was wide open.

In the fourth quarter, we kicked two field goals. But a key was those two field goals came off drives that ate up the clock and kept Reilly on the sidelines. We mixed runs with shorter passes most of the time, to keep those drives going.

But perhaps the key play of the game offensively came off a Buono call. There has been a focus on turnovers as the cost of victory in past games but we've also left a lot of points off the board with Wally refusing to gamble on third and one in past contests. In this game, he gambled on third and one, in our own end of the field. Lulay converted the third down gamble and we went on to kick a field goal.

Jennings 20 yard touchdown scamper would never have happened, if Buono had not gambled on third and two, on the Edmonton 37 yard line. That's right - he actually gambled on third and two, rather than attempt a 43 yard field goal. Those 10 points, coming off two third down gambles, turned out to be very important.

PHYSICAL PLAY

The tone was set, before the game even started, when Edmonton ran on the field before we had completed player introductions and it led to a skirmish. This was our home turf and our players demanded respect. Manny Arseneaux would not be brought down. He fought for every inch, after a catch. Burnham showed how tough he is, taking wicked hits, while holding onto the football, even after a one handed incredible catch. (the throw was purrfect also)

Jeremiah Johnson busted through tackles and played like he was desperate on every carry. Steward and Husband made a double team block on Sewell that opened a hole you could drive a train through. On defence we also tackled hard. Purifoy made a devastating hit. Edem came over from his safety position with fearlessly to bust up a couple of long pass plays. Purifoy looked like his early season self, playing with much more aggressiveness.

A key second half play was made by Chandler Fenner. Reilley set up to throw a quick slant pattern to Bowman. The play is usually unstoppable. But Fenner drove into Bowman within the 5 yard restraining area and Reilly had to pull the football down.

But perhaps the play of the game to reflect our intensity was the Lumbala 14 yard run off a quick swing pass. Lumbala ran, after the catch, as if his life depended on it. Lumbala then flexed his huge bicep and our sidelines went crazy.

WRAP

We usually win when our running game is going. We usually win when we keep turnovers at bay. We have the talent to beat good teams when we are not badly outcoached. Its a difference maker. We also win when our vets set the tone, with very physical play.

All those things were there and more. We now have a reasonable chance to still get a home playoff berth. Ottawa is capable of winning a game or even two against Edmonton. But we have to beat the Riders twice and hope for the best.

This was a big win. We needed to get back to winning ways. We needed to defeat a good Western opponent. We did. We neeed to win with smart, tough, inspired football and we did.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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You made a number of excellent points about the game WCJ. I thought I'd touch on a couple of them.
Under pressure, one cannot recall any QB making so many accurate throws into tiny windows. Way more mobile than one might think. This fan has no problem with him eating the ball. Give him better protection, outlets, and game plans.
I can't remember a Leo quarterback making so many accurate throws, under pressure, into tight windows either. Two things especially amaze me about Jennings. The first is that he can throw off his back foot, under extreme pressure, and bullet a very accurate throw 20-25 yards downfield with a flick of his wrist.

His accuracy on deep throws and deep intermediate throws is amazing.

Most of the time, our receivers are reasonably covered when Jennings throws completions. But he usually throws them to the purrfect spot. The 70 touchdown run by Arseneaux came off a pass in which Arseneauz was well covered and there was a defender in Jennings face. Most quarterbacks would not attempt that throw and if they did, they couldn't throw it to a spot where Arseneaux could reach back with his hands to make that catch. Same thing on the Arseneaux four yard touchdown reception (although Khari Jones calling a fade route to the wide side of the field, requiring a 40 yard pass with a high rate of difficulty is questionable).

I wish we gave him better game plans and play calling at times but this guy truly is a talent.
A very nice win. We are not the flagship of the league, but we can challenge anybody on a particular day.

Aside from Westerman and Menard, both Nationals, IMO our DL personnel is just adequate, not championship level. Can we get by? Dunno ...
I really agree with you that our defensive line is our weakest area. It was the area that you and I discussed a lot earlier in the season WCJ. Bazzie had a great first half but has hit the wall. Roh is an average defensive end. Brooks is not the dominant force he was last season and early this season. Westerman has enjoyed an excellent season. Menard always plays hard and gets pressure, when given the opportunity. Bryant Turner Jr. is solid but not imposing. Darius Allen is a waste. Hudson was better but neither are good enough, when they play.

I really wanted us to bring in an NFL cut defensive end. Calgary and Saskatchewan have done it. But its too late now.

I really think our best bet is to go with a rotation of Westerman, Brooks, and Bryant Turner Jr. for the playoffs. We need to get penetration on the inside against the pass and the run. Menard could be used to rotate in at Roh's spot - instead of 'death" he is putting me to sleep.

A lot has been made this season of Sol E and Bighill's tackle count. Its too high. Our linebackers are too involved in second layer tackles against the run.

It was important to get the lead in this game. It forced Edmonton to pass more than they wanted to. Still, White averaged 6.9 yards on his 11 runs.

Our defensive line made 1 defensive tackle in this game. One. For a whole game. Roh had one defensive tackle. Not one defensive tackle for Brooks, Bazzie, or Bryant Turner Junior.

Washington has to cover the flats better. He has dropped Sol E. and Bighill into hook zone pass coverage now, against the Bombers and the Eskimos and allowed Harris and White to have an easy time with swing passes to the flat. Harris killed us in the flats and White averaged 19 yds. each on his two receptions. Fortunatlely the Eskimos did not go to him more.

But if the Eskimos would have gotten the lead, they would have given us a big dose of White running the football and White catching swing passes in the flat and we would have had difficulty stopping White.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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DanoT
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Not much to add to Blitz's post except to add additional kudos to the coaching staff.

I was a bit surprised though that with a successful running game we should have seen more play action passing. But I am not really complaining as there were short and medium pass routes on a lot of plays, giving Jennings more options than in past games.

IMO, Esks have the second best D line in the CFL after the Stamps and Esks did a good job most of the game containing Jennings scrambling. But a few designed roll outs would have been nice.

Antonio Johnson had his worst game as a Lion. I would sure like to see Hunter Steward moved to tackle and Vaillancourt start at guard but I guess it is too late in the season to do that. Maybe 4 NATs on the O line for next season.

It is somewhat ironic that Bighill joined Solly in the 100 tackles club on one of his worst games as a Lion. He missed more than just the tackle on White that went for a big gain but at least he was still in the right spot to make a play even if he didn't make the play. It is safe to say next game Biggie will be a terror.

Nice to see all 3 rookie DBs making plays. I guess at this point in the season no one is a rookie any more.
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Anyone else out there thinking Jason Maas lacks the level of maturity needed to be a head coach? What a crybaby. That second Objectionable Conduct penalty should have included sending him to the showers. Yes, Biggie did fall into Reilly's legs, but Biggie had been tripped and Reilly saw him coming so he was jumping away from the contact. No harm done, and review confirmed that it was indeed a penalty.

I saw the post-game interview when they asked Maas about the pre-game hijinks and he started off by taking the high road, saying he was at the bench so he didn't see anything, but then he got all emotional, saying his team was getting screwed over so he fully supported what his guys did. :thdn:

Yeah, right, buddy. Get ready to fork over some more dough. Might as well sign the rest of your paycheque over to Jeffrey Orridge! :tease:
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B.C.FAN wrote:
chwk_lionsfan wrote:I'm really getting tired of these "Roughing the passer calls." How could anyone call that Bighill on Reilly hit tonight roughing the passer. Reilly still had the ball in his hand. Unless i was missing something, the head was clearly not targeted.

I get trying to protect the quarterback, but not at the expense of the rest of the game.
You can't hit the QB below the knees or above the shoulders, whether or not he has the ball in his hands. It was an unfortunate penalty to take, and likely unintentional, but it was clearly deserved. The hit could have ended Reilly's season.
Bighill clearly did hit Reilly below the knees , but he was also just as clearly tripped by the OT's out stretched legs , which sent him rolling into Reilly . The question is,was he tripped on purpose? If so the call should have been balanced out with a tripping call as well . Mass should have a look at the tape and chew out his own OL for causing it .
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QB Club 63 wrote:Anyone else out there thinking Jason Maas lacks the level of maturity needed to be a head coach? What a crybaby. That second Objectionable Conduct penalty should have included sending him to the showers. Yes, Biggie did fall into Reilly's legs, but Biggie had been tripped and Reilly saw him coming so he was jumping away from the contact. No harm done, and review confirmed that it was indeed a penalty.

I saw the post-game interview when they asked Maas about the pre-game hijinks and he started off by taking the high road, saying he was at the bench so he didn't see anything, but then he got all emotional, saying his team was getting screwed over so he fully supported what his guys did. :thdn:

Yeah, right, buddy. Get ready to fork over some more dough. Might as well sign the rest of your paycheque over to Jeffrey Orridge! :tease:
If my memory serves me right, Maas' time as a QB was marked by moments of volatility that he had to dial down in order to keep his focus during games. But also to avoid pissing off his teammates. I hope he matures as I am glad to see new blood joining the coaching ranks.

But I also hope he doesn't feel the need to replicate the behaviour of his Eskimo predecessor, who quite frankly was a dick when it came to disrespecting the league. Yes, Maas' reaction last night was motivated entirely by his emotions but the business with the live-mic was pure brinkmanship and posturing IMO.

Any word on the business with the Eskimos interrupting the Leo's player introductions? The thought crossed my mind that Maas may have "inadvertently" sent the team out...
Last edited by CardiacKid on Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Few thoughts:

- All in favour of the 4 p.m. kickoffs for fall games moving forward although I'm sure TSN will still want at least one Friday night after September, especially for doubleheaders. Making the game more of an "event" is just one of the many things the Lions need to do to address the poor attendance. So much easier to create an atmosphere outside of the stadium with the pre-game festivities when it's still daylight. Also gives fans a chance to stay downtown and go out for dinner out or whatever after the game and travelling fans a chance to get home at a decent hour too.

- I know the Eastern route is favourable but the Lions really needed to prove to themselves and the fans they can beat a Western rival. Another loss and a 2-6 record would start to really taint what they have achieved this season. Now they have a shot at being .500 against the West and finish with possibly a 12-6 record which is a significant improvement on a year ago and one not many predicated. Ottawa's inability to clinch the East on Friday should help the Lions as they will need to split against the Bombers. Regardless, I actually prefer to see them get another shot at Winnipeg, home or away after two crushing defeats, than go through the backdoor.

- Thought it was their most complete game of the season. Sure there was room for improvement but they got key plays from both sides of the ball against a upper echelon team and that was encouraging to see. They were saying on the pre-game show Jeremiah Johnson would be the RB of choice for the playoffs and he showed why yesterday with an outstanding game. Based on rotation he is scheduled to sit the next two but I can see Allen playing next week in Regina and Johnson playing the return match to set the stage for the playoffs.

Have really been impressed with Manny Arceneaux on and off the field this season. His second TD was as good as it gets, terrific catch and run. Also is saying all the right things and putting the team first, not his own play. Showing tremendous leadership. Pretty sure this is the final year of Bryan Burnham's contract. If so, he is due for a big pay raise and is a must signing. What a breakthrough season for him. He has been outstanding.
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With the hands-team and how they lined up for the entirely obvious short-kick, anyone spot an obvious hands guy on he right side of the Lion's line? I spotted Manny lining up on the left side but wondered who was to do the same on the right. I was looking for Burnham and Sinkfield but didn't spot anyone.
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SammyGreene
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CardiacKid wrote:With the hands-team and how they lined up for the entirely obvious short-kick, anyone spot an obvious hands guy on he right side of the Lion's line? I spotted Manny lining up on the left side but wondered who was to do the same on the right. I was looking for Burnham and Sinkfield but didn't spot anyone.
Burnham was definitely on the right side. Gore as well.
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Enjoying reading all the posts about our victory.

I believe Manny has been revitalized and motivated by Jonathan Jennings. He knows Jennings has faith in him and will get him the football to make plays. Bryan Burnham worked very hard in the off-season and that is also a factor in his play this year but having a quarterback like Jennings has also enabled Burnham to become one of the CFL's best receivers. Gore also has had a very good season and played with more drive and determination than ever before.

Regarding Jason Maas, he was a bit of a drama queen as a quarterback and he still is. Not mature enough. Knows his offensive football but has a lot of Benny in him. Interesting that those two end up together.

Agree that Bighill had a poor game for his standards. But as I wrote earlier, I really think it detracts from his game when we are using him as both a linebacker and a defensive back. I watched him on one play as a deep safety and Walker turned him around badly. But that is not on Bighill. If we want a two or three deep safety, take Bighill out of the game for those plays and put in Thompson or Parker or Fraser. All can cover deep better than Bighill. We're not fooling the quarterback when he sees Bighill sprinting back into deep coverage before the snap. Bighill is best as a linebacker and an outside blitzer, rather than blitzing inside.

I wish we had used more play action, especially misdirection play action boot legs. With the linebacker focused on Johnson and everyone else either rushing the quarterback, covering man, or playing two deep, there was lots of room for Jennings on the outside to run or have a lot of time to throw on a bootleg. When I saw the bootleg in the game and Jennings start to run, I knew he would have tons of room to ramble. The Eskimos defence gave us that. We could really have exploited it.

It will likely be Jeremiah Johnson in the playoffs. Likely Allen will start next game against the Riders to keep Johnson fresh. I preferred Allen at the start of the year but Johnson is a better cut back player for the inside zone read play that we like to run so much.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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WestCoastJoe
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Re Bighill ...

I agree with Blitz that he is not being used properly, when he is made to play deep safety. Put a DB in there, if deep cover is your intention. Biggie should be near the LOS, in my opinion. We have slid back into a very conservative defensive philosophy. Little pressure on the QB. Lots of zone pass coverage.

On the QB roughing ... Biggie was hit and was falling down. But it seems to this fan that he did not make an effort to avoid contact. I know. I know. It would have taken a contortionist to avoid the contact, but the zebras look for the effort. Even if he had twisted to the left, he might still have made contact. It would have been a shame to see Reilly hurt.

Just IMO. And I am no critic of Biggie. He is gangbusters. :thup:
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Haven't posted much the last couple of games, just tired of poor reffing calls and even worse League Centre calls costing the Lions opportunities for hard fought wins. Today's game is no different, with the Reilly fumble that Wally lost a TO on. That should have been called by the League Centre under 3 mins as I understand, another epic fail on their part yet again in the favour of the Lions opposition.

Top that off with Wally's conservative approach on 3rd and 1 through his coaching career exemplified in the Number back to back losses. Wally when you're O is moving give them the ball and take it to your opposition, then tonight was I surprised on the 1 + yard 3rd down call. Hopefully this becomes more the norm vs just a situational position on the field, too far for a real high percentage FG attempt, and too close to really use Leone's punting distance to full effect.

Great win that showed the Lions strengths, offense, and ST's. Also the Lions weaknesses on the DL, just not enough QB pressure nor the ability to plug up the run game. Rainey seemed to be slowed down this game as as returner, it may be due to his effective offensive inclusion. Lions may want to keep him primed for the homerun strike as a returner. Finally Bighill needs to eliminate the unnecessary penalties, his roll into Reilly is unbecoming of a player of his stature and the illegal block on one Rainey's returns was just a lazy push that can't be done. Part of my frustration is the orange flags that he is getting even when he shouldn't be getting called, the flags are coming at an alarming rate in recent games.

Finally the East looks to be the easy route , but the West is shaping up to be Winnipeg then Calgary. I like the payback factor that the Bombers bring to the table for the Lions, and if there is one team that can beat the Stamps it is the Lions and all the pressure will be squarely on the Stamps.
Entertainment value = an all time low
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* Thought the key to victory was that the Lions did a very good job neutralizing Reilly by controlling the clock and largely taking away Walker and Bowman - at least in the first 3 quarters.

* I am a bit surprised Edmonton didn't use White in the flats more as that play has been our weakness lately (quick dump or flare passes).

* Overall I was very happy with our performance. The biggest difference was the T.O.P. as we had a very big advantage running the ball - Jeremiah Johnson was outstanding.

* A bit concerned with our pass rush - only 1 sack on Reilly and only 1 tackle from our defensive linemen. We are not a very good blitzing team. I think MW needs to go back to the drawing board and think of more creative blitzes. By sending our linebackers up the A and B gaps, they get swallowed up every time.

* Jennings is an incredibly accurate passer (perhaps the best pure passer I've seen in a Lions uniform.....and I've seen plenty of them. Roy Dewalt was another) we are very lucky to have him. Sometimes it's easy to forget he's only in his first full year as the club's starting quarterback. The poise he shows and the touch on his passes is really quite remarkable. I can only imagine how good he'll be 3-4 years from now!

* Crowd was loud and engaged (Wally even made mention of this in the post-game interview on TSN radio). I hope the Lions' brass took note.....when there are more fans in the stands, the players feed off that energy. Get those prices in line "Brulsky" - there's no reason we can't consistently draw 24K, 25K!

* I get really irked when I constantly read/hear "the Lions crowd is old, Lions fans are aging and not being replaced etc." (Angus Reid went on a fairly big rant about this on TSN 1040 a few weeks ago). Mythbuster: There are lots of kids in stands, and even more families than normal yesterday with the early start. You couldn't have asked for a better scenario too: a fairly full lower bowl, plenty of kids, an entertaining game, and a win by the Leos. :thup:


DH :cool:
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CardiacKid wrote:
QB Club 63 wrote:Anyone else out there thinking Jason Maas lacks the level of maturity needed to be a head coach? What a crybaby. That second Objectionable Conduct penalty should have included sending him to the showers. Yes, Biggie did fall into Reilly's legs, but Biggie had been tripped and Reilly saw him coming so he was jumping away from the contact. No harm done, and review confirmed that it was indeed a penalty.

I saw the post-game interview when they asked Maas about the pre-game hijinks and he started off by taking the high road, saying he was at the bench so he didn't see anything, but then he got all emotional, saying his team was getting screwed over so he fully supported what his guys did. :thdn:

Yeah, right, buddy. Get ready to fork over some more dough. Might as well sign the rest of your paycheque over to Jeffrey Orridge! :tease:
If my memory serves me right, Maas' time as a QB was marked by moments of volatility that he had to dial down in order to keep his focus during games. But also to avoid pissing off his teammates. I hope he matures as I am glad to see new blood joining the coaching ranks.

But I also hope he doesn't feel the need to replicate the behaviour of his Eskimo predecessor, who quite frankly was a dick when it came to disrespecting the league. Yes, Maas' reaction last night was motivated entirely by his emotions but the business with the live-mic was pure brinkmanship and posturing IMO.

Any word on the business with the Eskimos interrupting the Leo's player introductions? The thought crossed my mind that Maas may have "inadvertently" sent the team out...
Maas totally lost it on the sidelines. Happened right in front of us. Some fans were really giving it to him.
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