Lions @ Stampeders -- Post Game Stats and Comments

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KnowItAll
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zeppo wrote:
dat wrote: Unlike one poster I thought Lavelle Hawkins played very well. He made some good catches and got open twice on deep patterns but was overthrown by Jennings.
Hawkins was OK. He was open three times on deep post patterns, and, as you said, Jennings overthrew him twice. The third pass was flat out dropped.
On his long completion down the sideline, I was surprised that a Stampeder caught him from behind, as I thought he was faster than he actually is. But,
to his credit, he appears to be a good route runner.
slow as molasses to me.
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maxlion
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Like many posters, I am not sad to see Beck giving way to Jennings and, personally, do not want to see either Beck or Lulay back starting games regardless of how Jennings performs from here on out. JJ showed good mobility and a strong arm, and it definitely seemed to provide a much needed spark to the team. He surpassed Lulay and Beck's average per game passing totals in 3 quarters.

However, 3 interceptions and no tds is not going to win many games. There have been many qbs come up over the past few years who have looked great in practice but haven't cut it as starters. That's why Burris and Glenn still have starting jobs. The only ones who have really succeeded are Mitchell, Collaros, Reilly, and to a lesser extent Harris and Nicholls. All of these had lengthy apprenticeships under a strong starting qb before breaking out. I think it was wise of the Lions to protect Jennings for as long as possible, instead of throwing him to the wolves.

I wanted to see JJ get some action in earlier, and was tired of seeing Beck and Lulay flounder, but most young qbs need to be brought along slowly. Time for Tedford and Cortez to really earn their pay now. JJ has the skills and charisma. Hope he can learn to control his game and make the right decisions under pressure as well.
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Toppy Vann
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The HC said in his Rintoul interview that this game he'd be slimming it down for Beck. Make it simpler.

When Jennings came in, it's what Cortez then says is situational for him - meaning he got out of rut.
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TheLionKing
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Sir Purrcival wrote: One game with a change up at QB is hardly enough to think anything about Tedford's control and influence. What we saw tonight was some young guys bringing some enthusiasm to the team. That can be infectious but I need to see more than part of one game before I begin to think that we have maybe turned a corner.

Jenkins seems to throw a nice ball, seems to have some legs (I wish he had used them instead of passing a couple of times) but he does seem to have some tools.

The D has again played marginally better. Like other's in this thread was not especially impressed with Phillips tonight. For being the experienced guy on that level, he sure looked like a rookie on that pass out. Couldn't close to the receiver, overran the play and so on.

Bad mistakes and some bad luck too. It seemed as though bounces were definitely going the Stamps way on the fumble by Jenkins. Was only one Stamp player who could possibly have recovered that one and the ball drops right in front of him. All he had to do was fall on it. We missed a couple of chances for turnovers as well. I believe Biggie missed a fumble and the Yell missed a shot at a pick as well.

A story of mistakes and missed opportunities. By contrast, after the Lions tie the game, Calgary starts with a great ko return and then promptly marches a short field to the end zone.
Next Lions drive, we fumble and a couple of plays later, the Stamps are 2 TD's ahead. The difference between a good team and us.
Jonathon Jennings
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Ballistic Bob wrote:Just wondering who was responsible for Becks protection on that hit he took to end his game/ Thnx BB
Looks to be Jovan Olafioye. He left the guy and block the guy to his left.
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dupsdell1 wrote:
Belize City Lion wrote:I think what we saw last night was proof that Tedford had lost the locker room. On the pre game show the guys were talking about how difficult it is for players to play well when they don't believe the coaches have prepared a game plan that can be successful. For weeks we have been questioning the schemes and personnel decisions of the Lions coaching staff. You don't think the players have not been doing the same? There have been enough "unsubstantiated rumours" of dissent to convince me there has been a very real problem behind closed doors. In Belize we say "if dat not so, dat nearly so". Or where there's smoke there's fire.

When Jennings entered the game there was an instant improvement in effort, enthusiasm and hustle. I don't think this was just a case of teammates rallying around the rookie, but rather a statement from the players of "OK, this is what we have been waiting for. Time for us to step up and show the coaches we were right and they were wrong".

Beck getting hurt might have saved Teddy's job. If Jennings had subbed in for a healthy Beck and the results had been the same I have no doubt that stubborn Teddy would be going back to Beck against Edmonton. But that does not look like Teddy will have that option. So the players will get what they want. Now they have the opportunity to show up their coach by putting together a few wins behind Jennings. If they can do that Teddy's hands will be tied. If not it will be "Beck to the future" as Teddy rides out his remaining few games as HC of the BC Lions.

I agree if Jennings turns this team around and we start winning what does that say about the organization I bet you wally comes out and admits we should have gone with Jennings in the Ottawa games were Beck was not performing hopefully this wakes them up.
Wally will never admit a mistake. He'll make some lame excuse that Jennings wasn't ready until yesterday.
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Sir Purrcival
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TheLionKing wrote:
Sir Purrcival wrote: One game with a change up at QB is hardly enough to think anything about Tedford's control and influence. What we saw tonight was some young guys bringing some enthusiasm to the team. That can be infectious but I need to see more than part of one game before I begin to think that we have maybe turned a corner.

Jenkins seems to throw a nice ball, seems to have some legs (I wish he had used them instead of passing a couple of times) but he does seem to have some tools.

The D has again played marginally better. Like other's in this thread was not especially impressed with Phillips tonight. For being the experienced guy on that level, he sure looked like a rookie on that pass out. Couldn't close to the receiver, overran the play and so on.

Bad mistakes and some bad luck too. It seemed as though bounces were definitely going the Stamps way on the fumble by Jenkins. Was only one Stamp player who could possibly have recovered that one and the ball drops right in front of him. All he had to do was fall on it. We missed a couple of chances for turnovers as well. I believe Biggie missed a fumble and the Yell missed a shot at a pick as well.

A story of mistakes and missed opportunities. By contrast, after the Lions tie the game, Calgary starts with a great ko return and then promptly marches a short field to the end zone.
Next Lions drive, we fumble and a couple of plays later, the Stamps are 2 TD's ahead. The difference between a good team and us.
Jonathon Jennings
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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/foot ... story.html

From Mike Beamish ...

In regard to judgment by the decision makers on our staff over the years.
“At this point in my career, I understand there are games I simply get more pumped up for than other games,” Cornish says. “Playing against B.C. is definitely one of them. They’re my hometown team (Cornish was born in New Westminster). I was undrafted by them." -- Jon Cornish
Didn't draft the home town boy.
“I’m incredibly thankful I was drafted by Calgary,” he says. “I do kind of feel blessed to be in this position. So I don’t really hold it against them (Lions). The only thing I would say, (Lions GM) Wally Buono didn’t think I had the mental fortitude to play (pro football).”
Yes. Drafted by a solid organization that makes solid judgments in many, many areas of the football business.

"Wally Buono didn’t think I had the mental fortitude to play (pro football).” -- Jon Cornish

Yuh. Judgment. Or lack thereof.

At times I think that Wally just lets players or even systems rise or fall to their appropriate level by just kind of outwaiting them. After a while it becomes obvious to everyone who should play, and what systems should be used, and then he goes that way. So it seems to this fan.

Part way into a season, everyone sees that Gary Butler should not be playing ahead of Ricky Foley. Should not even be on the team, and he is gone.

Half way through a season, everyone is screaming for a change in the run game, and the blocking. It finally goes that way.

Half way through a season, everyone is screaming for size in the interior of the D Line, and we finally go that way.

Many, many examples.

And some things cannot be changed so easily. Failed draft picks. Systems are hard to change. Mistakes with starters? Those can be changed.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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JohnHenry
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Jennings was the best QB through training camp and preseason. I'd suggested at-the-time he should be our starting QB from Game 1 and let Lulay fully heal up on the sidelines. If Jennings faltered we still had Lulay and Beck to pick up the slack by mid-season. In retrospect, the team might have been in a better position today. But let's not anoint Jennings as our saviour and QBOTF just yet. Sometimes rookie QB's can look great in their first few quarters of action, playing on instinct like Cato and Franklin this season, but after teams get video of the new QB's strengths the defences will respond.

I wouldn't worry too much about Jennings Int's. The team needed touchdowns and he was hoping our receivers could make a play. Jennings probably realizes now he needs to be more selective, even in desperation plays. I remember a game when Doug Flutie threw 4 Int's. He just kept chucking long bombs because his team was down a couple TD's late in the game. Flutie never cared about interceptions, he just wanted to win. I could see a little of that same character in Jennings, so I'm betting Int's shouldn't be an ongoing problem with Jennings.

Jennings seems like a prototypical CFL QB. While he has a strong arm he needs to work on ball placement, often throwing a bit high and wide. He showed great poise in looking downfield while under pressure and throwing a nice ball on the run.

I feel bad for John Beck. He did everything the Lions asked of him and was a good teammate. Hopefully he will heal up 100% and be available for the playoff push. In this league team's need 3 or 4 QB's who can play. Who's up next McGhee then Archer?

:roar:
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pennw
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JohnHenry wrote:Jennings was the best QB through training camp and preseason. I'd suggested at-the-time he should be our starting QB from Game 1 and let Lulay fully heal up on the sidelines. If Jennings faltered we still had Lulay and Beck to pick up the slack by mid-season. In retrospect, the team might have been in a better position today. But let's not anoint Jennings as our saviour and QBOTF just yet. Sometimes rookie QB's can look great in their first few quarters of action, playing on instinct like Cato and Franklin this season, but after teams get video of the new QB's strengths the defences will respond.

I wouldn't worry too much about Jennings Int's. The team needed touchdowns and he was hoping our receivers could make a play. Jennings probably realizes now he needs to be more selective, even in desperation plays. I remember a game when Doug Flutie threw 4 Int's. He just kept chucking long bombs because his team was down a couple TD's late in the game. Flutie never cared about interceptions, he just wanted to win. I could see a little of that same character in Jennings, so I'm betting Int's shouldn't be an ongoing problem with Jennings.

Jennings seems like a prototypical CFL QB. While he has a strong arm he needs to work on ball placement, often throwing a bit high and wide. He showed great poise in looking downfield while under pressure and throwing a nice ball on the run.

I feel bad for John Beck. He did everything the Lions asked of him and was a good teammate. Hopefully he will heal up 100% and be available for the playoff push. In this league team's need 3 or 4 QB's who can play. Who's up next McGhee then Archer?

:roar:
I remember that about Flutie too . He gambled to make plays . You can be so overly concerned to not throw picks you just don't throw most of the game . That seem's to be the BC problem as of late with both Lulay and Beck , far too hesitant to throw for the whole game . They may throw less picks that way , but also only generate 2 and outs and invite defences to shut down our run game as priority one .
The thing I noticed was that as soon as Jennings came in everything opened up for Harris . This IMO can't simply be attributed to the Oline suddenly wanting to block better for JJ. Rather it was a result of the dynamics changing with the Stamps D having to account for a very mobile , athletic QB willing to take off out of the pocket , who they knew could hurt them with his feet.
A rookie like Jenninngs is likely to be very unfettered with his kind of athletic ability , capable of running and throwing on the run and very willing to do so when flushed . You could not say that about Beck or Lulay anymore . So the D adjusted for Jennings which forced them to forget about just shutting down Harris. You could see Calgary clearly feared Jennings more than Beck and his 5 yard passes . Hopefully our coaching staff doesn't try fetter Jennings , and instead takes advantage of his capabilities . If they try to make him overly conservative , the results will be more of what we already have had.
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What shocks me about this 2015 season, as well as in the past on too many occasions, is how long it takes our Leos to figure out something that most Lionbackers see well before.

There were numerous posts that we should have been giving Jennings a series or two, when Lulay was struggling and even more posts questioning why we were going with a 34 year old backup when Jennings was the future or at least deserved the chance to show he could be the future.

Now our Leos are asking Roh to lose weight so he can play defensive end, his natural position, when for most of the season he was played out of position at tackle. The last couple of games or so Roh, who is our leading sacker has not dressed. All season long, Lionbackers has said we need to get bigger at tackle and both Minter and McFarland have been impressive.

Heck, by season end, after Westerman has not had a single sack, we may even decide he is better at his natural defensive tackle position. (and it was Wally who pushed for Roh to start at tackle and for Westerman to move outside)

At least fans are excited to see Jennings get a chance. Fans will support a losing Leos team that is rebuilding if they see exciting schemes and players being given opportunities.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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SammyGreene
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Blitz wrote:What shocks me about this 2015 season, as well as in the past on too many occasions, is how long it takes our Leos to figure out something that most Lionbackers see well before.

There were numerous posts that we should have been giving Jennings a series or two, when Lulay was struggling and even more posts questioning why we were going with a 34 year old backup when Jennings was the future or at least deserved the chance to show he could be the future.

Now our Leos are asking Roh to lose weight so he can play defensive end, his natural position, when for most of the season he was played out of position at tackle. The last couple of games or so Roh, who is our leading sacker has not dressed. All season long, Lionbackers has said we need to get bigger at tackle and both Minter and McFarland have been impressive.

Heck, by season end, after Westerman has not had a single sack, we may even decide he is better at his natural defensive tackle position. (and it was Wally who pushed for Roh to start at tackle and for Westerman to move outside)

At least fans are excited to see Jennings get a chance. Fans will support a losing Leos team that is rebuilding if they see exciting schemes and players being given opportunities.
Couldn't agree more Blitz.

What did Wally see in Printers, Wynn, Pierce, Jackson, Lulay and Reilly that they didn't see in Jennings? Why wasn't a journeyman ever brought in as insurance for Dickenson who was frequenty hurt? And it's not like Beck has Kevin Glenn's resumé in this league. It completely contradicted what the organization had done for years despite having a very fragile No. 1 and the dire need to develop a future starter.
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SammyGreene wrote:
What did Wally see in Printers, Wynn, Pierce, Jackson, Lulay and Reilly that they didn't see in Jennings? Why wasn't a journeyman ever brought in as insurance for Dickenson who was frequenty hurt? And it's not like Beck has Kevin Glenn's resumé in this league. It completely contradicted what the organization had done for years despite having a very fragile No. 1 and the dire need to develop a future starter.
Printers was a 3rd stringer in his first year, only completeing 2 passes all year long. Jackson was on the practice roster for over a year before getting any game action. Pierce didn't start a game until week 16 after injuries to Dickenson and Printers. Lulay didn't start a game until his second year. Reilly spent most of a year on the practice roster and another as the 3rd stringer before getting a chance to start a game when Lulay got hurt.

By these comparables, Jennings is being fast tracked.
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B.C.FAN
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Blitz wrote:What shocks me about this 2015 season, as well as in the past on too many occasions, is how long it takes our Leos to figure out something that most Lionbackers see well before.
The biggest head-scratcher for me is defensive tackle. While Minter showed flashes at training camp (Brooks was injured while I was there), the two players who seemed best able to stop the run in preseason were McFarland and Monroe. Monroe was released and picked up by Saskatchewan, where he has five tackles and three sacks in three games as a starter this month, while McFarland languished on the practice roster for half a season before being activated last week. He responded with two tackles and a knockdown while shutting down Jon Cornish. I hope the Lions find a way to keep him.
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Jennings forced some throws that he tried have drop into the receiver, double coverage visible. He will learn that he can't those to drop in like college, the DB's know how to close on a throwvwith any air under it.

IR Buck Pierce doing similar aiming in his first start, he learned to put some zip on it or not to throw it, as Jennings will. As for player selection, the Lions have been reluctant to give the young players any starting time
I am always grateful that Wally arrived after Clemonts rookie season. Remember the football rule of thumb on using rookies...for each rookie used, you can count on a tick in the loss column.
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