1991 vs. 2000 BC Lions - Which team do you like more?

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Which version of the BC Lions do you like more? 1991 or 2000?

1991
4
50%
2000
4
50%
 
Total votes: 8
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Robbie
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In the past, usually after a championship season there's always some discussion as to how that team compared to other previous good seasons, e.g. 2011 vs. 2006 vs. 1985 Lions. But in light of the recent thread about the 1991 along with several previous threads about the 1991 season, I'll pose more of a apples to oranges comparison. I've stated numerous times that the 2000 Grey Cup is by far the most unpopular so the question begs asking.....is winning everything?

Essentially, which team do you like better - the 1991 or the 2000 BC Lions?

Doing a comparison on various aspects of both versions:

Quarterback
1991: Doug Flute
2000: Damon Allen

Both quarterbacks are now CFL Hall of Famers and Legends, but despite my personal biases I will yield to the popular and agree that with his Most Outstanding Player season Doug Flutie in 1991 compared to all of the seasons Damon Allen played as a Lion. So the nod goes to 1991.

Running Backs
1991: Jon Volpe, Chris Skinner
2000: Sean Millington, Robert Drummond

Jon Volpe was decent in his Most Outstanding Rookie performance but not Chris Skinner who would fumble so many times. Whereas Sean Millington won Most Outstanding Canadian for the second time and was well supported by Robert Drummond and his 2000 GC MVP performance. So the nod goes to 2000.

Receivers
1991: Ray Alexander, Darren Flutie, Matt Clark, Jay Christensen, Mike Trevathan
2000: Alfred Jackson, Don Blair, Jimmy Oliver, Jimmy Cunningham, Sean Graham

The 1991 set of receivers seem to be very popular mostly because they had the benefit of Doug Flutie throwing passes to them, and also with the exception of Christensen all of them were part of the 1994 team. The 2000 were decent but not ones who would be remembered in the years the come. So the nod goes to 1991.

Offensive Line
1991: Jim Mills
2000: Chris Perez

Jamie Taras was on both teams. Chris Perez was good at an all-star but did not win Most Outstanding Lineman unlike Jim Mills who won it in 1990 and 1991, so the nod is to 1991.

Specials Teams
1991: Giulio Caravatta, Ray Ethridge
2000: Bret Anderson, Jimmy Cunningham

Lui Passaglia is the constant and statistically with his then-record of 40 out of 44 field goal attempts he performed the best in 2000. Lui gave way sometimes to the kickoff specialist and I always liked Bret Anderson's long, corner coffin kickoffs more than Caravatta's. And Ray Ethridge was a one-hit wonder with single TD kickoff return, whereas Cunnigham played the entire 1999 and 2000 seasons. So the nod will be to the 2000 special teams.

Defense
1991: Entire defense
2000: Carl Kidd, Eric Carter, Herman Smith

I've stated countless times that I consider the 1991 Lions defence as extremely pathetic that I can't even thing of a single player to represent the defense, nor can I think of a great defensive play in that season and I was so often outraged to see the points that the hard working offence put on all went for nothing. Whereas the 2000 Lions defence came through when it really counted most notably in the 2000 WDF in which the defence really controlled the 2000 MOP Dickenson and his offence by forcing 2 fumbles and 6 interceptions, and also forced some crucial turnovers in the Grey Cup. So by far the nod goes to 2000.

Other Stats:

Home Attendance: High - Average - Low
1991: 54,108 - 40,888 - 24,722
2000: 33,232 - 22,806 - 18,453

Points For
1991: 661
2000: 513

Points Against
1991: 587
2000: 529

I guess in the end, this reinforces the adage that good offence buys tickets but good defence wins games.

Final Verdict
While both versions had areas in which they were better, the one thing that really tipped the scale was the defence as a result, I'd say I like the 2000 team better.

Hypothetically, if the two teams played each other which team will win? I'd say that the 1991 team might put on a lot of points to begin with but soon the 2000 defence would think of a way to shut down the offence the way they did with the 2000 MOP in the 2000 WDF. And Damon Allen and the 2000 offence will eventually tear apart the weak 1991 defence and easily score lots of points the way Danny Barrett and his Stampeders offence did in their four high scoring wins over the Lions in the 1991.
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你龍年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
Rodu
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'91 was a year or two before I got into football so I went with 2000
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KnowItAll
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all I need is flutie to pick 91
Every day that passes is one you can't get back
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B.C.FAN
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The 1991 season ended so badly that I will always regard it as one of the most disappointing seasons in Lions history. Much was expected and little was delivered in the end.

The 2000 Grey Cup victory was the one that made me the most proud. I'm not a big consumer of team merchandise but I've never been more excited as I was to receive a Grey Cup sweatshirt with the score of the 2000 game on it. I got a lot of mileage out of that shirt.

I've always judged seasons by how they end, and the only ones that ended well were the 1964, 1985, 1994, 2000, 2006 and 2011 Grey Cup victories. The 1994 and 2011 victories were magical because they were unexpected. The 1964, 1985 and 2006 victories were expected, and probably overdue in that the Lions has played well for several seasons and lost other Grey Cup games in the preceding two years. My main feeling after those victories was one of relief.
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sj-roc
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B.C.FAN wrote:The 1991 season ended so badly that I will always regard it as one of the most disappointing seasons in Lions history. Much was expected and little was delivered in the end.

The 2000 Grey Cup victory was the one that made me the most proud. I'm not a big consumer of team merchandise but I've never been more excited as I was to receive a Grey Cup sweatshirt with the score of the 2000 game on it. I got a lot of mileage out of that shirt.

I've always judged seasons by how they end, and the only ones that ended well were the 1964, 1985, 1994, 2000, 2006 and 2011 Grey Cup victories. The 1994 and 2011 victories were magical because they were unexpected. The 1964, 1985 and 2006 victories were expected, and probably overdue in that the Lions has played well for several seasons and lost other Grey Cup games in the preceding two years. My main feeling after those victories was one of relief.
I'd argue that 2000 was every bit as if not more unexpected than 1994 or 2011. The 1994 was 11-6-1 and at least had the record of a Grey Cup champion even if we stumbled a bit down the stretch after a 7-1 start. For the 2011 11-7 team the former point holds and we finished up quite strong almost completely running the table with a loss in Hamilton our only blemish after the horrendous 1-6 start. I suppose it was unexpected in the early stages but we were playing with confidence with the additions of Bruce and Kornegay as the season wore on. By the time the playoffs started we were the team to beat and nobody was up to the task.

2000 to me was about as unexpected as championships come, what with the distraction of a coaching change precipitated by Mohns's sudden resignation, and the losing 8-10 reg season record (first time ever in CFL history and maybe even all of NA pro sports a champ team was sub-.500). Then we go on the road for the playoffs, score first in all three games and lead through the end of each one. I don't remember going into any of those playoff games thinking we were a lock or even the clear favourite. IIRC we were helped in the Cgy game by a Dave Dickenson injury early on and their having to go a large chunk of the way with their backup (Mike McCoy? Troy Kopp?).
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Big Time
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Normally I would go with a championship season over any regular season but this is a good topic because it's not as clear for me. When the Lions got Doug Flutie in 1990/91, the city got Lions fever like it rarely has ever had since. There was something magical about the way Doug Flutie played. No matter what the situation, you knew Flutie would be able to bring them back. Sure, the defense was utterly porous, but with Doug, you always knew you had a chance. There was one game I recall against the Sask Riders (who else?), where the Lions were down by I believe 15 points in the last two minutes and Doug Flutie managed to bring them back. The Lions were drawing regular crowds of 40 and 50K. Lions games were an event when Flutie was on the team. Yes, the season ended in a very frustrating manner with the Lions blowing first place with a loss to the worst team in the league. But the only player I've ever seen have the kind of impact he had was Casey Printers in his first couple of years here.

The 2000 team was an example of pleasure and frustration for me. I've never been a huge Damon Allen fan because he was so streaky and inconsistent. The 2000 season perfectly summed him up for me in that he was able to beat every team in the league and lose to every team as well. The defense showed signs of coming around, but you knew that the team would live and die on whether Good Damon showed up or Bad Damon. Thankfully for the Lions, Damon went on one of his hot streaks and led them to a very surprising Grey Cup. The Lions, unfortunately, squandered much of that good will the following season with very little marketing and it really wasn't until Ackles dumped Damon that they were able to bounce back.

So overall, I have mixed feelings about the 2000 team because in some ways I think they were lucky, and overall weren't that great a team. The 1991 team was special because I can rarely recall a more exciting Lions team. So I guess my vote goes slightly to 1991.
BakeTEAM1040
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2000 all the way. Without question. Not only did it end with a championship, but how many others remember they NEVER trailed at any point in the playoffs or Grey Cup? How many other Grey Cup champs ( that didn't have the bye into Division Final) can say they never trailed at all in the post-season? Pretty remarkable feat.

1991 was 2005 like in terms of disappointment. If I recall, a home loss in final week against 2 win Hamilton prevented them from 1st place?
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Robbie
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Thanks for your responses, gentlemen. :good: Any others on 1991 vs. 2000?
B.C.FAN wrote:The 1991 season ended so badly that I will always regard it as one of the most disappointing seasons in Lions history. Much was expected and little was delivered in the end.
Do you ever wonder then why 1991 seems to be so popular and memorable then - even more than more successful seasons especially like 2000?
B.C.FAN wrote:The 2000 Grey Cup victory was the one that made me the most proud. I'm not a big consumer of team merchandise but I've never been more excited as I was to receive a Grey Cup sweatshirt with the score of the 2000 game on it. I got a lot of mileage out of that shirt.
:whs:
I see that you are not the only one who is appreciative about the 2000 Grey Cup victory. I'm sure you completely agree with me that the 2000 run and win was by far the least popular and memorable.
B.C.FAN wrote:I've always judged seasons by how they end, and the only ones that ended well were the 1964, 1985, 1994, 2000, 2006 and 2011 Grey Cup victories.
Giving a twist on a point that I made several times before about how bronze medalists feel much better than silver medalists....is it more disappointing and painful to lose a Grey Cup or to lose the Division Final? So in other words, what is more heartbreaking - losing the GC in 1963, 1983, 1988, and 2004 vs losing the division final in 2012, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2005, 1999, 1987, 1986, 1984, 1977, etc......?

I'd say that because the Lions have lost the division final so many times, while appearing only 10 times, then it's a real honour to even make an appearance in the final. Even though 1983 loss was sad I'm sure most fans were glad that they finally made it to the final again after 19 years.
B.C.FAN wrote:The 1994 and 2011 victories were magical because they were unexpected.
Relatively speaking.....how magical was 2000 compared to 1994 and 2011?
B.C.FAN wrote:The 1964, 1985 and 2006 victories were expected, and probably overdue in that the Lions has played well for several seasons and lost other Grey Cup games in the preceding two years. My main feeling after those victories was one of relief.
A very good point. After losing in 1963, 1988, and 2004 it was a relief that they came back and won it all after a few years. It was in 2000 and 2011 when the Lions won the Grey Cup again without a loss in between championships.
sj-roc wrote:I'd argue that 2000 was every bit as if not more unexpected than 1994 or 2011. The 1994 was 11-6-1 and at least had the record of a Grey Cup champion even if we stumbled a bit down the stretch after a 7-1 start. For the 2011 11-7 team the former point holds and we finished up quite strong almost completely running the table with a loss in Hamilton our only blemish after the horrendous 1-6 start. I suppose it was unexpected in the early stages but we were playing with confidence with the additions of Bruce and Kornegay as the season wore on. By the time the playoffs started we were the team to beat and nobody was up to the task.

2000 to me was about as unexpected as championships come, what with the distraction of a coaching change precipitated by Mohns's sudden resignation, and the losing 8-10 reg season record (first time ever in CFL history and maybe even all of NA pro sports a champ team was sub-.500). Then we go on the road for the playoffs, score first in all three games and lead through the end of each one. I don't remember going into any of those playoff games thinking we were a lock or even the clear favourite.

Given the fact that it was so unexpected and magical, what is your explanation as to why the 2000 Grey Cup playoff run and win seems to be the least memorable and popular a the amount of discussion of that season is only 10% of the 1994 season and many other seasons including the non-GC seasons like 1991.
sj-roc wrote:IIRC we were helped in the Cgy game by a Dave Dickenson injury early on and their having to go a large chunk of the way with their backup (Mike McCoy? Troy Kopp?).
Neither. Mike Cawley came in relief. He was signed by the Stampeders on September 20, 2000 and was released immediately after the WDF. He was ineffective in relief of Dickenson unlike Mike McCoy in the 1999 WDF in the second quarter when he came in relief of Dickenson for a series and immediately threw a long TD pass.
[video][/video]
Big Time wrote:Normally I would go with a championship season over any regular season but this is a good topic because it's not as clear for me. When the Lions got Doug Flutie in 1990/91, the city got Lions fever like it rarely has ever had since. There was something magical about the way Doug Flutie played. No matter what the situation, you knew Flutie would be able to bring them back. Sure, the defense was utterly porous, but with Doug, you always knew you had a chance. There was one game I recall against the Sask Riders (who else?), where the Lions were down by I believe 15 points in the last two minutes and Doug Flutie managed to bring them back. The Lions were drawing regular crowds of 40 and 50K. Lions games were an event when Flutie was on the team. Yes, the season ended in a very frustrating manner with the Lions blowing first place with a loss to the worst team in the league. But the only player I've ever seen have the kind of impact he had was Casey Printers in his first couple of years here.

The 2000 team was an example of pleasure and frustration for me. I've never been a huge Damon Allen fan because he was so streaky and inconsistent. The 2000 season perfectly summed him up for me in that he was able to beat every team in the league and lose to every team as well. The defense showed signs of coming around, but you knew that the team would live and die on whether Good Damon showed up or Bad Damon. Thankfully for the Lions, Damon went on one of his hot streaks and led them to a very surprising Grey Cup. The Lions, unfortunately, squandered much of that good will the following season with very little marketing and it really wasn't until Ackles dumped Damon that they were able to bounce back.

So overall, I have mixed feelings about the 2000 team because in some ways I think they were lucky, and overall weren't that great a team. The 1991 team was special because I can rarely recall a more exciting Lions team. So I guess my vote goes slightly to 1991.
Thanks for the long write up and explanation, Big Time. :thup:
From a business perspective, I'll admit that the 1991 season did a lot of good to the local economy and from the ownership perspective, I'd say then-owner Murray Pezim gained a profit after 1991. That's unlike owners Bill Comrie after 1994 and David Braley for several years after buying the Lions in 1997 likely incurred losses.

At least in the 2000 WDF you didn't nearly have a heart attack as the Lions thanks to a great defence led by an Eric Carter interception in the second quarter jumped out to an early and huge 21-1 lead and unlike 1991 when the pathetic defence always allowed the opponent to come back, the decent 2000 defence did its job while the offence continued to score points in the solid 37-23 win and I felt this playoff win is always under-appreciated so that was one of the main reasons why I changed my avatar to what it is now.

[video][/video]

The 2000 WDSF and GC was not as much of a blowout given the narrow 2-point difference, but at least the Lions always jumped to a lead quickly and never trailed at all and appeared to always be in control of the game and deservedly, was clearly the better team to win.
BakeTEAM1040 wrote:2000 all the way. Without question. Not only did it end with a championship, but how many others remember they NEVER trailed at any point in the playoffs or Grey Cup? How many other Grey Cup champs ( that didn't have the bye into Division Final) can say they never trailed at all in the post-season? Pretty remarkable feat.

1991 was 2005 like in terms of disappointment. If I recall, a home loss in final week against 2 win Hamilton prevented them from 1st place?
The loss in the regular season finale - yeah, really pathetic :bang: . It's very disappointing that Doug Flutie's last home game as a Lion had to end like this. He certainly tried to redeem himself in his last game ever as a Lion in the WDSF when he put in 41 points. Unfortunately the terrible Lions defence did their usual self and allowed Calgary to score 28 points in the third quarter. :puke:
[video][/video]

Most of you said you like the 2000 team more than 1991, yet the general impression is that the players from 1991 are more memorable in a positive way (at least the offensive players).
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你龍年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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sj-roc
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Robbie, you seem to be acting like it's some big mysterious puzzle why some people remember 1991 more fondly than 2000. It's not rocket science; simply, more people were paying attention to the Lions and going to games to actually see firsthand what was happening, end of story. You can't be nostalgic for something you never experienced in the first place.

The fans who followed the team at the time and look back fondly on the 2000 win probably do so about as much as they do the other wins, give or take. There's just fewer of them who do.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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Robbie
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I just figured that Lions fans who were old enough to remember the 1991 season and likely the 1994 season too would certainly remember the more recent 2000 season as well and is able to make a comparison as to which season they like more - especially serious Lions fans like those on this board.

I'd say 1999 was a prelude to 2000 for both the team and an particular individual. The Lions never hosted a playoff game since 1987 and 1991 was so close but choked big time and finally 12 years later the Lions finished first. While the team came just short in the 1999 WDF with the defence failing to contain Calgary in their last drive to take the lead with a late FG and Damon Allen's fumble, I was able to forgive them as they at least finished first in 12 years and I gave them a chance the next year to redeem themselves - and redeem they did as a year later the defence did a superb job in the 2000 WDF and Damon Allen was essentially flawless in the three playoff games. And another reason 2000 would be very sentimental would be the retiring year for Lui Passaglia and what better way to retire than to win it with a Grey Cup and happening to put on the field goal that would eventually turn out to be the winning points.
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你龍年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
dupsdell1
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Robbie wrote:In the past, usually after a championship season there's always some discussion as to how that team compared to other previous good seasons, e.g. 2011 vs. 2006 vs. 1985 Lions. But in light of the recent thread about the 1991 along with several previous threads about the 1991 season, I'll pose more of a apples to oranges comparison. I've stated numerous times that the 2000 Grey Cup is by far the most unpopular so the question begs asking.....is winning everything?

Essentially, which team do you like better - the 1991 or the 2000 BC Lions?

Doing a comparison on various aspects of both versions:

Quarterback
1991: Doug Flute
2000: Damon Allen

Both quarterbacks are now CFL Hall of Famers and Legends, but despite my personal biases I will yield to the popular and agree that with his Most Outstanding Player season Doug Flutie in 1991 compared to all of the seasons Damon Allen played as a Lion. So the nod goes to 1991.

Running Backs
1991: Jon Volpe, Chris Skinner
2000: Sean Millington, Robert Drummond

Jon Volpe was decent in his Most Outstanding Rookie performance but not Chris Skinner who would fumble so many times. Whereas Sean Millington won Most Outstanding Canadian for the second time and was well supported by Robert Drummond and his 2000 GC MVP performance. So the nod goes to 2000.

Receivers
1991: Ray Alexander, Darren Flutie, Matt Clark, Jay Christensen, Mike Trevathan
2000: Alfred Jackson, Don Blair, Jimmy Oliver, Jimmy Cunningham, Sean Graham

The 1991 set of receivers seem to be very popular mostly because they had the benefit of Doug Flutie throwing passes to them, and also with the exception of Christensen all of them were part of the 1994 team. The 2000 were decent but not ones who would be remembered in the years the come. So the nod goes to 1991.

Offensive Line
1991: Jim Mills
2000: Chris Perez

Jamie Taras was on both teams. Chris Perez was good at an all-star but did not win Most Outstanding Lineman unlike Jim Mills who won it in 1990 and 1991, so the nod is to 1991.

Specials Teams
1991: Giulio Caravatta, Ray Ethridge
2000: Bret Anderson, Jimmy Cunningham

Lui Passaglia is the constant and statistically with his then-record of 40 out of 44 field goal attempts he performed the best in 2000. Lui gave way sometimes to the kickoff specialist and I always liked Bret Anderson's long, corner coffin kickoffs more than Caravatta's. And Ray Ethridge was a one-hit wonder with single TD kickoff return, whereas Cunnigham played the entire 1999 and 2000 seasons. So the nod will be to the 2000 special teams.

Defense
1991: Entire defense
2000: Carl Kidd, Eric Carter, Herman Smith

I've stated countless times that I consider the 1991 Lions defence as extremely pathetic that I can't even thing of a single player to represent the defense, nor can I think of a great defensive play in that season and I was so often outraged to see the points that the hard working offence put on all went for nothing. Whereas the 2000 Lions defence came through when it really counted most notably in the 2000 WDF in which the defence really controlled the 2000 MOP Dickenson and his offence by forcing 2 fumbles and 6 interceptions, and also forced some crucial turnovers in the Grey Cup. So by far the nod goes to 2000.

Other Stats:

Home Attendance: High - Average - Low
1991: 54,108 - 40,888 - 24,722
2000: 33,232 - 22,806 - 18,453

Points For
1991: 661
2000: 513

Points Against
1991: 587
2000: 529

I guess in the end, this reinforces the adage that good offence buys tickets but good defence wins games.

Final Verdict
While both versions had areas in which they were better, the one thing that really tipped the scale was the defence as a result, I'd say I like the 2000 team better.

Hypothetically, if the two teams played each other which team will win? I'd say that the 1991 team might put on a lot of points to begin with but soon the 2000 defence would think of a way to shut down the offence the way they did with the 2000 MOP in the 2000 WDF. And Damon Allen and the 2000 offence will eventually tear apart the weak 1991 defence and easily score lots of points the way Danny Barrett and his Stampeders offence did in their four high scoring wins over the Lions in the 1991.


Not Even a question 1991 big crowds very exciting team the famous Doug Flutie electrifying on every play. the 2000 team was boring did not know who was even on the team nobody came to games etc and Damen Allen was the most boring QB the Lions ever had.
dupsdell1
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Robbie wrote:Thanks for your responses, gentlemen. :good: Any others on 1991 vs. 2000?
B.C.FAN wrote:The 1991 season ended so badly that I will always regard it as one of the most disappointing seasons in Lions history. Much was expected and little was delivered in the end.
Do you ever wonder then why 1991 seems to be so popular and memorable then - even more than more successful seasons especially like 2000?
B.C.FAN wrote:The 2000 Grey Cup victory was the one that made me the most proud. I'm not a big consumer of team merchandise but I've never been more excited as I was to receive a Grey Cup sweatshirt with the score of the 2000 game on it. I got a lot of mileage out of that shirt.
:whs:
I see that you are not the only one who is appreciative about the 2000 Grey Cup victory. I'm sure you completely agree with me that the 2000 run and win was by far the least popular and memorable.
B.C.FAN wrote:I've always judged seasons by how they end, and the only ones that ended well were the 1964, 1985, 1994, 2000, 2006 and 2011 Grey Cup victories.
Giving a twist on a point that I made several times before about how bronze medalists feel much better than silver medalists....is it more disappointing and painful to lose a Grey Cup or to lose the Division Final? So in other words, what is more heartbreaking - losing the GC in 1963, 1983, 1988, and 2004 vs losing the division final in 2012, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2005, 1999, 1987, 1986, 1984, 1977, etc......?

I'd say that because the Lions have lost the division final so many times, while appearing only 10 times, then it's a real honour to even make an appearance in the final. Even though 1983 loss was sad I'm sure most fans were glad that they finally made it to the final again after 19 years.
B.C.FAN wrote:The 1994 and 2011 victories were magical because they were unexpected.
Relatively speaking.....how magical was 2000 compared to 1994 and 2011?
B.C.FAN wrote:The 1964, 1985 and 2006 victories were expected, and probably overdue in that the Lions has played well for several seasons and lost other Grey Cup games in the preceding two years. My main feeling after those victories was one of relief.
A very good point. After losing in 1963, 1988, and 2004 it was a relief that they came back and won it all after a few years. It was in 2000 and 2011 when the Lions won the Grey Cup again without a loss in between championships.
sj-roc wrote:I'd argue that 2000 was every bit as if not more unexpected than 1994 or 2011. The 1994 was 11-6-1 and at least had the record of a Grey Cup champion even if we stumbled a bit down the stretch after a 7-1 start. For the 2011 11-7 team the former point holds and we finished up quite strong almost completely running the table with a loss in Hamilton our only blemish after the horrendous 1-6 start. I suppose it was unexpected in the early stages but we were playing with confidence with the additions of Bruce and Kornegay as the season wore on. By the time the playoffs started we were the team to beat and nobody was up to the task.

2000 to me was about as unexpected as championships come, what with the distraction of a coaching change precipitated by Mohns's sudden resignation, and the losing 8-10 reg season record (first time ever in CFL history and maybe even all of NA pro sports a champ team was sub-.500). Then we go on the road for the playoffs, score first in all three games and lead through the end of each one. I don't remember going into any of those playoff games thinking we were a lock or even the clear favourite.

Given the fact that it was so unexpected and magical, what is your explanation as to why the 2000 Grey Cup playoff run and win seems to be the least memorable and popular a the amount of discussion of that season is only 10% of the 1994 season and many other seasons including the non-GC seasons like 1991.
sj-roc wrote:IIRC we were helped in the Cgy game by a Dave Dickenson injury early on and their having to go a large chunk of the way with their backup (Mike McCoy? Troy Kopp?).
Neither. Mike Cawley came in relief. He was signed by the Stampeders on September 20, 2000 and was released immediately after the WDF. He was ineffective in relief of Dickenson unlike Mike McCoy in the 1999 WDF in the second quarter when he came in relief of Dickenson for a series and immediately threw a long TD pass.
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Big Time wrote:Normally I would go with a championship season over any regular season but this is a good topic because it's not as clear for me. When the Lions got Doug Flutie in 1990/91, the city got Lions fever like it rarely has ever had since. There was something magical about the way Doug Flutie played. No matter what the situation, you knew Flutie would be able to bring them back. Sure, the defense was utterly porous, but with Doug, you always knew you had a chance. There was one game I recall against the Sask Riders (who else?), where the Lions were down by I believe 15 points in the last two minutes and Doug Flutie managed to bring them back. The Lions were drawing regular crowds of 40 and 50K. Lions games were an event when Flutie was on the team. Yes, the season ended in a very frustrating manner with the Lions blowing first place with a loss to the worst team in the league. But the only player I've ever seen have the kind of impact he had was Casey Printers in his first couple of years here.

The 2000 team was an example of pleasure and frustration for me. I've never been a huge Damon Allen fan because he was so streaky and inconsistent. The 2000 season perfectly summed him up for me in that he was able to beat every team in the league and lose to every team as well. The defense showed signs of coming around, but you knew that the team would live and die on whether Good Damon showed up or Bad Damon. Thankfully for the Lions, Damon went on one of his hot streaks and led them to a very surprising Grey Cup. The Lions, unfortunately, squandered much of that good will the following season with very little marketing and it really wasn't until Ackles dumped Damon that they were able to bounce back.

So overall, I have mixed feelings about the 2000 team because in some ways I think they were lucky, and overall weren't that great a team. The 1991 team was special because I can rarely recall a more exciting Lions team. So I guess my vote goes slightly to 1991.
Thanks for the long write up and explanation, Big Time. :thup:
From a business perspective, I'll admit that the 1991 season did a lot of good to the local economy and from the ownership perspective, I'd say then-owner Murray Pezim gained a profit after 1991. That's unlike owners Bill Comrie after 1994 and David Braley for several years after buying the Lions in 1997 likely incurred losses.

At least in the 2000 WDF you didn't nearly have a heart attack as the Lions thanks to a great defence led by an Eric Carter interception in the second quarter jumped out to an early and huge 21-1 lead and unlike 1991 when the pathetic defence always allowed the opponent to come back, the decent 2000 defence did its job while the offence continued to score points in the solid 37-23 win and I felt this playoff win is always under-appreciated so that was one of the main reasons why I changed my avatar to what it is now.

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The 2000 WDSF and GC was not as much of a blowout given the narrow 2-point difference, but at least the Lions always jumped to a lead quickly and never trailed at all and appeared to always be in control of the game and deservedly, was clearly the better team to win.
BakeTEAM1040 wrote:2000 all the way. Without question. Not only did it end with a championship, but how many others remember they NEVER trailed at any point in the playoffs or Grey Cup? How many other Grey Cup champs ( that didn't have the bye into Division Final) can say they never trailed at all in the post-season? Pretty remarkable feat.

1991 was 2005 like in terms of disappointment. If I recall, a home loss in final week against 2 win Hamilton prevented them from 1st place?
The loss in the regular season finale - yeah, really pathetic :bang: . It's very disappointing that Doug Flutie's last home game as a Lion had to end like this. He certainly tried to redeem himself in his last game ever as a Lion in the WDSF when he put in 41 points. Unfortunately the terrible Lions defence did their usual self and allowed Calgary to score 28 points in the third quarter. :puke:
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Most of you said you like the 2000 team more than 1991, yet the general impression is that the players from 1991 are more memorable in a positive way (at least the offensive players).



Yes I do admit that lions team 1991 was very week in the secondary not a great pass rush , but if Flutie stayed with the lions ( Pezum singing Flutie to the big contract ) Lions would have had to fix that big time.
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Robbie wrote:I just figured that Lions fans who were old enough to remember the 1991 season and likely the 1994 season too would certainly remember the more recent 2000 season as well and is able to make a comparison as to which season they like more - especially serious Lions fans like those on this board.

I'd say 1999 was a prelude to 2000 for both the team and an particular individual. The Lions never hosted a playoff game since 1987 and 1991 was so close but choked big time and finally 12 years later the Lions finished first. While the team came just short in the 1999 WDF with the defence failing to contain Calgary in their last drive to take the lead with a late FG and Damon Allen's fumble, I was able to forgive them as they at least finished first in 12 years and I gave them a chance the next year to redeem themselves - and redeem they did as a year later the defence did a superb job in the 2000 WDF and Damon Allen was essentially flawless in the three playoff games. And another reason 2000 would be very sentimental would be the retiring year for Lui Passaglia and what better way to retire than to win it with a Grey Cup and happening to put on the field goal that would eventually turn out to be the winning points.
People who were fans in 1991, a great many of them were no longer paying attention by 2000, simple as that (well, they stopped paying attention LONG before that if we're being honest). There were 33,232 at BCP for Lui's finale vs Ssk but an average of only 21,503 for the rest of the season and only one other game that year was above 24k (the home opener, also vs Ssk). The smallest 1991 crowd was the home opener at 24,722 before Flutiemania had fully taken hold, which would have beaten any non-Ssk crowd from 2000.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
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older is always better

like the 94 canucks were way more exciting that the 2011 team.
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BakeTEAM1040
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And as a follow up, how improbable was the Western Final win in Calgary? Stamps owned the Lions in regular season that year, and were by far the class of the league, yet they came out so flat. Prime example of how anything can happen when it's one game.
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