Tight end experiment ends?

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Qman
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FYI
AC Leonard and his numerous drops was cut


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Confirmed AC Leonard released. #bclions TE experiment ends.
Assume Burnham slides in to provide more dynamic option.

#cfl
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Toppy Vann
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2018 ... eport-more

The ups and downs on AC show he was more of a project with a lot of downside. He didn't get a lot of balls either as it seemed that this thing was the HC idea and there was no evidence that he and Cortez are on the same page. Tedford doesn't let assistants talk and Cortez isnt vocal.

Compare that to Hufnagel where Dickenson talking to Dunigan about being HC and calling the plays got a very open reply. Depends on budget he gets as John's plan is not to leave. The coaches there are free to speak as it seems the coaches with Austin's teams are - they make decisions and they speak to the media(not that a lot of media chase assistants).

I didn't realize he too had a bit of a past with a gf with the Lions bringing in another guy with a past. Don't get me wrong- I believe in redemption and there are those that get the message from one situation and don't repeat. But given the Lions profile with the violence against women - it's an interesting connection.
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TheLionKing
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So much for the much hyped "H" back
Rodu
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neither TE was a good blocker or aggressive, or even really used their size to their advantage, and Leonard had some Dropsom Collins quality hands

move Gore back inside, Ianuzzi at WR, freeing up another import to start somewhere else
maxlion
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Toppy Vann wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2018 ... eport-more

The ups and downs on AC show he was more of a project with a lot of downside. He didn't get a lot of balls either as it seemed that this thing was the HC idea and there was no evidence that he and Cortez are on the same page.
Some of the things mentioned in the scouting report seemed evident here:
Routes are sloppy and inconsistent.
Has the ability to explode out of his breaks but he's often lazy and rounds off his cuts, giving defensive backs plenty of time to react to his movement.
Focus on the field is extremely poor at times.
He often fails to run straight lines in his routes and gets distracted by movement around him, throwing off the timing of his routes.
Fails to locate open space when working against the zone.
Does a poor job adjusting when the play breaks down and often fails to work back toward the quarterback to provide a target.
Too bad as he definitely has the physical tools to be a dominant player in the cfl.
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David
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Watch, AC Leonard will get signed by the Stamps and become the next Nik Lewis. :sigh:
Rodu wrote:move Gore back inside, Ianuzzi at WR, freeing up another import to start somewhere else
Not a bad thought. I still think playing 3 imports on the O-line is a little clunky. I really hope Hunter Steward can get back in the line-up soon. It's approaching 3 months since he broke a bone in his foot, which is a little longer than I expected. Seeing Tommie Draheim (on the sidelines) at the last home game walking very gingerly, it looked as though his injury could be more serious than a 1-gamer.


DH :cool:
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TheLionKing wrote:So much for the much hyped "H" back
Willes: Eight games in, B.C. Lions are in a hole of their own making

Offence, defence are both full of issues, leaving Leos at square one at midseason

By Ed Willes, The Province August 30, 2015 11:00 AM


Former NFLer JoJo Dickson was brought in by the Lions Friday to help fill the void left when Solomon Elimimian was injured and lost for the season. But B.C.’s problems run far deeper than just the loss of their best defensive player.

Following a disheartening homefield loss to the Montreal Alouettes which followed an embarrassing debacle in Hamilton, Wally Buono had eight days to study the B.C. Lions and evaluate his creation.

His conclusion?

“Are we a championship team? No. Do we have a ways to go? We have a ways to go,” said the Leos’ GM.

Which at least demonstrates Buono hasn’t lost touch with reality.

As for the matter of extricating themselves from the mud hole they’ve dug, that’s where things get a little trickier. On Friday, the Lions and head coach Jeff Tedford returned to work following a bye week, and, to a man, they said souls were searched and mirrors were looked into during their break.

This is to be expected. It is, after all, the default position for all athletes when things go bad. But in the Lions’ case, their issues are too profound to be solved with a few positive affirmations and a readjustment of their collective psyche.

Put it this way. When you’re eighth in the CFL in net offence, ninth in time of possession, ninth in passing yards and eighth in quarterback efficiency then, brother, you’ve got some problems.

And while the Lions’ challenges are multi-layered and complex as they approach the midpoint of their season, the one overarching question about this team is fairly simple.

Are they good enough as they’re currently constructed?

“I can’t just arbitrarily overhaul the team,” said Buono. “We are young. We’re going through a cycle.

“After the first NFL cuts, if we believe there are better players, we’ll make the change. I’ve given (U.S. scout Ryan Rigmaiden) a checklist so the process has started. But I don’t believe wholesale changes will turn things around.”

One of the core tenets of Buono’s philosophy, in fact, is he chooses his team in training camp and rides it through the year. There might be room for an amendment here or there, but the overwhelming percentage of player evaluating is done before the season.

If you’re doing it at midseason, it’s too late.

That said, it was interesting to note the Lions had brought in two new bodies on Friday: linebacker Jojo Dickson and running back Chris Rainey. Dickson, a 26-year-old who’s bounced around the NFL for the last four seasons, is a replacement for the injured Solomon Elimimian — did we mention the Lions have also lost their best player for the season?

Rainey, meanwhile, was signed to upgrade the return game and offer a different option to Andrew Harris in the run game. A member of the Florida Gators’ 2009 national championship team, Gainey was cut by the Alouettes in June before the Lions came calling, but at least he has the good backstory.

In high school, he lived with the family of twin NFL offensive linemen Maurkice and Mike Pouncey. He’s also the brother of Rod “He Hate Me” Smart of XFL fame.

“The reality is, given where the NFL is right now, there’s a pool of players out there” said Tedford. “If we need to improve, they’re available.”

But will the Lions dive into the deep end of that pool or stick their toe in the shallow end? They started the season with five new starters on defence, five new starters on offence, a new kicker and a new return man. The problem there is the two areas which were targeted for reconstruction — the offensive and defensive lines — have been average at best.

So what will change, beginning on Thursday night in Montreal? Well, clearly, the offence has to be more productive. Did anyone else notice that? It seems illogical that a unit which features four playmakers at the receiver positions, Harris in the backfield, former MOP Travis Lulay at quarterback and three imports on the line would struggle, but the CFL stats’ sheet tells a story.

That in turn, focuses attention on offensive co-ordinator George Cortez and the play-calling. Harris had been the one bright spot over the first six games, but Hamilton and Montreal committed their defence to stopping the Lions’ ground game.

In so doing, they shut down the Lions’ offence.

“Honestly, I don’t think it’s fair to ask me that,” Buono answered when asked about the Lions’ plan of attack.

“If I was in my old capacity (as head coach), that would be a fair question. I think that’s a question for Jeff.

“I’ll say this. Do I expect more out of our football club? Yes.”

Tedford, as it happens, arrived in town with a reputation as an offensive genius and a quarterback whisperer. He’s now had eight games to study this team; eight games to evaluate his personnel and devise a game plan which utilizes its strengths.

That should be long enough. Those eight games were certainly long enough for Lions’ fans.
Well, the tight end H Back concept is gone. Doubt that Cortez had a clue how to lead anything but a spread offence anyway. It's sad because 1) it would have been innovative 2) it offered some outstanding opportunities and 3) it would have been an offence designed to take advantage of how today's CFL defenses play.

However, when our starter went down and we were in the position of using Leonard, the back up tight end and we really had no one ready to step in and replace Leonard easily if he was injured, the scenario was not a good one. However, we also could have taken a player like Jason Aragki and developed him as a tight end as well. The reality is that we never used our tight end, except as a slotback so it was a waste.

Considering that Leonard was a raw project, I thought he played well overall. He had some drops but he also made some good catches and showed the ability to get YAC yards. Had we used him as a proper tight end/H Back he had such good athletic ability that he could have hurt defenses.

So, now we're going to be totally in a spread offence, Cortez style, likely with continued pocket passing, no motion, and little misdirection. We'll have a slot back playing slotback, ratther than a second string tight end playing slot back so that should make the spread offence a little better in the passing game but its still going to likely be a boring spread offence. One personnel change, without strategy change, is not going to be a big difference maker, so I sure hope the soul searching involved making scheme changes to our offence as well.

I don't agree with Wiles notion that our offensive line has not been good. I think they have been excellent. They've opened big holes for the running game and they have done a great job in protecting Lulay. Not much five offensive lineman can do against 6 or 7 blitzers. That is on Cortez and the scheme to negate and attack.

Be interesting to see if Washington and Cortez, with Tedford's urging, have made scheme changes. I think both are limited in terms of their vision and they are both black and white thinkers but one can only hope. Desperate times can force people to make adjustments to their thinking and we are getting close to desperate times.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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SammyGreene
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Blitz wrote:Well, the tight end H Back concept is gone. Doubt that Cortez had a clue how to lead anything but a spread offence anyway. It's sad because 1) it would have been innovative 2) it offered some outstanding opportunities and 3) it would have been an offence designed to take advantage of how today's CFL defenses play.

However, when our starter went down and we were in the position of using Leonard, the back up tight end and we really had no one ready to step in and replace Leonard easily if he was injured, the scenario was not a good one. However, we also could have taken a player like Jason Aragki and developed him as a tight end as well. The reality is that we never used our tight end, except as a slotback so it was a waste.

Considering that Leonard was a raw project, I thought he played well overall. He had some drops but he also made some good catches and showed the ability to get YAC yards. Had we used him as a proper tight end/H Back he had such good athletic ability that he could have hurt defenses.

So, now we're going to be totally in a spread offence, Cortez style, likely with continued pocket passing, no motion, and little misdirection. We'll have a slot back playing slotback, ratther than a second string tight end playing slot back so that should make the spread offence a little better in the passing game but its still going to likely be a boring spread offence. One personnel change, without strategy change, is not going to be a big difference maker, so I sure hope the soul searching involved making scheme changes to our offence as well.

I don't agree with Wiles notion that our offensive line has not been good. I think they have been excellent. They've opened big holes for the running game and they have done a great job in protecting Lulay. Not much five offensive lineman can do against 6 or 7 blitzers. That is on Cortez and the scheme to negate and attack.

Be interesting to see if Washington and Cortez, with Tedford's urging, have made scheme changes. I think both are limited in terms of their vision and they are both black and white thinkers but one can only hope. Desperate times can force people to make adjustments to their thinking and we are getting close to desperate times.
Agreed Blitz. An awfully short leash for him given how others have performed over the 8 games and are still with the club. Oh well, not that the scheme was going to take advantage him running out of the TE/Hback anyways. Just more lip music and false hopes.

During the last game, I had to laugh when Jay Janower tweeted this. Sadly so true
Don't think #BCLions have fooled a single person/Team with that fake/hurry up/no huddle action on 1st down. Maybe actually try it once?
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MexicoLionFan
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TheLionKing wrote:So much for the much hyped "H" back

Exactly, no one is mentioning this...Leonard was brought in as an H-back and potential Tight End, all Tedford did is make him a SLOT receiver in the Canadian game...BIZARRE doesn't begin to cover all of this...what is going on in Lions land??? TLK can you remember as anything as bad as the start to this season?
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MexicoLionFan wrote:
TheLionKing wrote:So much for the much hyped "H" back

Exactly, no one is mentioning this...Leonard was brought in as an H-back and potential Tight End, all Tedford did is make him a SLOT receiver in the Canadian game...BIZARRE doesn't begin to cover all of this...what is going on in Lions land??? TLK can you remember as anything as bad as the start to this season?
The whole thing is bizzare MLF. Tedford says he wants to run an H Back Tight End offence and we run a boring, boring spread offence with the tight end used as a slotback. Our offensive line opens holes for the run and protects Lulay like he's never been protected in B.C. before and we're dead last in passing. Every defense knows we run on first down and pass on second and so they load the box on first and blitz on second.

Tedford says he wants to run an aggressive pressure defense and we get Washington's bend and break defense that is as aggressive as a bunny rabbit being chased by a cat.

Iain MacIntyre of the Vancouver Sun writes the Lions are still searching for an identity. Our Lions actually have one. They are badly coached as well as predictable, boring, passive, and rigid in philosophy and offensive scheme and defensive schemes. Their only solutions are to attempt to change personnel. Anyone figure out that perhaps changing McMann rather than constantly changing punt returners might be the answer. Nope, except for us on this board. :thdn:


Iain MacIntyre: Tedford’s team still searching for an identity

By the bye: Lots to mull this week

By Iain MacIntyre, Vancouver Sun columnist August 24, 2015

This is going to be a better week for the B.C. Lions. They do not play.

Their Canadian Football League bye week follows the Lions’ 23-13 home loss Thursday against the Montreal Alouettes, which followed the previous week’s 52-22 embarrassment against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. The Lions, 3-5 and without an identity for the first time in the Wally Buono era, have a lot to think about this week and time to do it.

Here’s one thought: How is an offence designed and run by guys who are supposed to be offensive innovators — new head coach Jeff Tedford and well travelled offensive co-ordinator George Cortez — so obvious and uncreative that first and second down are now known to B.C.’s opponents as the running down and the passing down, respectively?

Tedford was chosen by Buono. Cortez was hired by Tedford.

If nothing else this season, the Lions were supposed to be dynamic and unpredictable when they had the ball, full of thoughtful wrinkles and offensive tricks conjured by Tedford and Cortez. But the chief innovation seems to be from the 1980s: the reinstitution of the tight end.

At 6-2 and 253 pounds, 23-year-old A.C. Leonard is an intriguing specimen. But he has dropped several balls as a receiver and been without impact as a blocker, and the bottom line is that running back Andrew Harris the last couple of games — and especially against Montreal — was given the ball on first down and run up between the tackles against seven or eight defenders who knew the run was coming and simply overwhelmed the Lions’ offensive line.

There is little misdirection, no deception, no diversity in runners. There is only three yards and a cloud of dust, although there isn’t any dirt on artificial turf and Harris actually averaged only 1.25 yards on his eight carries against Montreal.

Receiver Shawn Gore beat Harris’s net rushing total with 11 yards on his only carry, which was also the only time beleaguered quarterback Travis Lulay was told by Cortez to give the ball to anyone but Harris.

Compare that variety to the Alouettes’ diversity — seven different runners combined for 251 yards. Sure, Montreal ran it up the gut too, but also unleashed different jet sweeps and quarterback options and generally looked like the innovative team that the Lions were expected to be on offence. And Montreal head coach Tom Higgins still got fired!

Here’s another thought: for 12 years — nine when Buono was the head coach and the last three when former defensive co-ordinator Mike Benevides ran the team — the Lions had an identity as a tough defensive team that was aggressive and ornery and capable of big plays. Suddenly, they’re a pushover. Where has the grit gone?

The Lions couldn’t stop Ticats quarterback Zach Collaros from passing and couldn’t stop anyone on the Alouettes from running.

The defensive line is anchored by a couple of rookie tackles, Michael Brooks and Craig Roh, part of the youth movement orchestrated by Tedford and Buono that included the discard, among others, of impact returners Tim Brown and Stefan Logan. With the Alouettes, Logan was more dangerous with the ball in his hands on Thursday than anyone on the Lions.


The Lions’ defensive strategy is to have the linemen occupy enough blockers for B.C.’s superstar linebackers Solomon Elimimian and Adam Bighill to make plays. But Elimimian was lost for the season with an Achilles tendon tear in Hamilton and Bighill’s nine tackles were mostly downfield on Thursday. Few others on defence look capable of making game-changing plays.

On the third play Thursday, veteran defensive back Ryan Phillips ran back an interception 49 yards for an easy 7-0 B.C. lead. But Montreal rookie quarterback Rakeem Cato completed 15 of 17 passes the rest of the way. Lions defenders have allowed opposing quarterbacks to complete 41 of 50 passes against them the last two games. The Lions, meanwhile, are last in the CFL in sacks — a stat Buono has always downplayed.

One more thought: With so many new young players and several veteran leaders gone, do the Lions know how to win? Does everyone know what it means to be a pro?

It’s a superficial thing perhaps, but after the Lions were humiliated in Hamilton — remember, B.C. was down 21-0 before it generated a first down, lost Elimimian to a serious injury, then surrendered 50 points in a regular season game for the first time since Buono arrived before the 2003 season — their locker-room was not quite funereal.

There was quiet banter among a few players, even a couple of jokes and muffled laughs. Buono, of course, is now the general manager, not the head coach. But on a night like that, I’d have never expected that atmosphere in his locker-room.

Maybe it was nothing. Or maybe it’s just the least of the problems.

Even without a game, it’s a big week for Buono and his staff.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
FEAR_THE_ROAR
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finally!!!! what a waste of a spot he was, I'm hoping that there is still more changes coming our way.

I like putting in gore and iannuzzi, but why don't we try iannuzzi at slot? he is faster than gore so maybe he can get some separation to help out travis?

just a thought, we've had him for a couple years now and haven't tried it becase of our previous SB's ( geroy arland moore etc) maybe?
maxlion
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I think it was more than just a couple of dropped passes with AC. I got the sense that he was missing routes and assignments and just lacked the football IQ to be a difference maker.
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Toppy Vann
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FEAR_THE_ROAR wrote:finally!!!! what a waste of a spot he was, I'm hoping that there is still more changes coming our way.

I like putting in gore and iannuzzi, but why don't we try iannuzzi at slot? he is faster than gore so maybe he can get some separation to help out travis?

just a thought, we've had him for a couple years now and haven't tried it becase of our previous SB's ( geroy arland moore etc) maybe?
There seems to be rot in this corp of Receivers and if I were going to have to lose games I'd sooner lose with character and Iannuzzi has that. Get Jeffers - Harris in and sit out the rot.

Leonard might be a victim for reasons other than his routes and catches. A message to fans - change - so they can get Gainey in. Can't get rid of the cancer so go with someone who wasn't getting the ball much.
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looks like Manny goes inside to new inside slot ... where leonard was playing
Hawkins gets in a manny's old spot
Qman
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FEAR_THE_ROAR wrote:finally!!!! what a waste of a spot he was, I'm hoping that there is still more changes coming our way.

I like putting in gore and iannuzzi, but why don't we try iannuzzi at slot? he is faster than gore so maybe he can get some separation to help out travis?

just a thought, we've had him for a couple years now and haven't tried it becase of our previous SB's ( geroy arland moore etc) maybe?
iannuzzi is too small to play slot. he is only on the roster due to his passport and played returner in college.
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