Lulay under strict orders to slide

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

Post Reply
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

From the column by Mike Beamish ...

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/foot ... story.html
“Those plays he was running (against Saskatchewan) they’re run/pass/run plays,” explained offensive coordinator George Cortez. “He has three options. But if he chooses to run, he’s under strict orders to slide. You don’t want your quarterback getting whacked at any time. But he’s pretty smart. He’s reading the defence. And there was nobody taking the quarterback. I’m sure, right now, nobody was considering that Travis was going to run the ball. I’m sure that’s the last time (this season) anybody’s going to think like that.”
"But if he chooses to run, he’s under strict orders to slide. You don’t want your quarterback getting whacked at any time."

Seems obvious now. But such a protocol was never put in place for Buck Pierce. Nor for Lulay prior to this year.

A quarterback is in the line of fire. But he is also the most important player on the field, for both teams. It just makes sense that steps be taken to ensure his safety. No unnecessary risks.

In the pocket, trapped, no time left to look, throw it away, out of bounds.

Scrambing, under pressure, D closing in, no escape, get down. Slide.

In the open field, gaining yards, the D closing off space, get down. Slide.

Travis did that to perfection vs the Riders. Good to see.

As George Cortez noted, and as comes from Jeff Tedford, Lulay is under strict orders to slide. Not good for the team for the QB to do the physically heroic thing. The team needs the quarterback to be healthy and ready to play and lead.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

“It felt pretty natural,” he explained. “The mental part had come to the point where I didn’t feel nervous about running in a game. I’ve graduated to that point where I’m not conscious of putting myself in harm’s way again. I don’t think about it. (Against Saskatchewan) it showed that it is a weapon we needed. And I was able to do that.”
“I don’t think Travis is going to return to his old instincts,” Cortez said. “I think between us drilling it into him, and him understanding, it’s not going to happen. If he had to go through a player to win the Grey Cup, that’s a different matter.”
Both Travis Lulay and Buck Pierce were always willing to give up their bodies for the good of the team. Old school idea. Better to keep the body whole and hearty for the good of the team.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Lion ... z3gSGhlO00
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

“Travis has it all -- the athleticism, the legs, the arm,” said centre Jason Foster, who had to be aided from the field after injuring his knee but vows to be ready for next Friday’s game against the Toronto Argonauts at BC Place. “He has the most intelligent brain I’ve been around. And he’s so commanding of the huddle.”
At Montana State, he joined an exclusive club of NCAA quarterbacks who threw for 10,000 yards and ran for 1,000 during their college careers. That list includes Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Steve McNair and Dan LeFevour, the latter now a member of the Montreal Alouettes.
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Lion ... z3gSHOG6cN
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
sj-roc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7539
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:39 pm
Location: Kerrisdale

WestCoastJoe wrote:"But if he chooses to run, he’s under strict orders to slide. You don’t want your quarterback getting whacked at any time."

Seems obvious now. But such a protocol was never put in place for Buck Pierce. Nor for Lulay prior to this year.
No surprise there on the orders. I wrote this in the GDT late in the first half during the last game:
I've never seen Lulay slide feet first in his whole career before 2015 as much as he has so far this season. I think he's learned the lesson Buck Pierce never did.
It does seem so obvious now, you wonder why this wasn't done sooner. The answer to me is coaching. Not sure if this is on par with Cortez's history with the QBs he's coached before but he's definitely got the right idea here.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
User avatar
PigSkin_53
Hall of Famer
Posts: 3926
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:47 am

His hook slide is second to none, and being so I love the way he is executing with his head, but leaving it all on the field with his heart!

We have to learn to protect him better as the weeks turn into months, and put him into a situation where his percentage chances, increase in health and confidence

:cr:
"Just Win Baby" ~ Al Davis
User avatar
PigSkin_53
Hall of Famer
Posts: 3926
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:47 am

That misdirection the Leos were running with Travis option to the wide side of the field, that worked over and over so marvelously on Fridays night, has more potential than you realize...

There are many variations we could execute, and when one is taken away by opposing defenses, another can open for our success as this season's candidate for championship!
"Just Win Baby" ~ Al Davis
User avatar
MexicoLionFan
Legend
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:10 pm

Thanks Joe, I believe it was Blitz who said that QBs get hit A LOT more often in their own backfield than down the field...a huge part of Lulay's game is to take off with the ball, and he has to be allowed to do this...the timing of his slides/going out of bounds was done perfectly and he will only get better at it! The Read-Option scheme has always been a favourite of mine because it keeps the defence, especially the LBs, one step slower in their response time that a good offence can take advantage of!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."

Albert Einstein
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

MexicoLionFan wrote:Thanks Joe, I believe it was Blitz who said that QBs get hit A LOT more often in their own backfield than down the field...a huge part of Lulay's game is to take off with the ball, and he has to be allowed to do this...the timing of his slides/going out of bounds was done perfectly and he will only get better at it! The Read-Option scheme has always been a favourite of mine because it keeps the defence, especially the LBs, one step slower in their response time that a good offence can take advantage of!
The read option, misdirection play action, quick sprint outs, semi-boots are all the type of plays that are tailor made for Lulay. The read option, when Lulay fakes it and takes off, opens up the inside running game for Harris or vice-versa because they can't cheat, as they were doing on Harris previously, crashing the ends down. It also will help his protection in the pocket as defensive ends will be less willing to take an inside route.

I doubt Lulay will get early success next week on the read option..they will be prepared for him. But that should open up the inside for Harris and if he we can run the football inside successfully due to the defense playing more honest, it should open up the read option run for Lulay later in the game.

In terms of how Tedford/Cortez have dealt with Lulay and his running game....its really what he needed to be directed to do and also practice the concepts as well as integrate the thought process. We are not stopping Lulay from running now, thankfully, but just defining the parameters and Lulay has responded.

Tedford wants his quarterback to utilize his strengths while also protecting him as best possible. That is so different from the Wally era. When we had Dickenson and Printers injured in 2005 and Pierce playing injured and all had taken a beating...Wally's response to our quarterback injury situation and the sacks and hits they were taking was "That's why we have four of them". Wally prided himself on not 'babying' quarterbacks.

Tedford is smarter. He realizes how importan the position is. At the same time, hoping Lulay doesn't get injured by trying to keep him in the pocket is not the answer. Having a quarterback like Lulay play smart, in terms of protecting his shoulder while using his legs at opportune situations is the answer. This is the best approach.

And yes, I wrote that quarterbacks get injured more often in the pocket that out of it is true. Quarterbacks cant' always see a blind side hit, or avoid a helmet to knee from a lunging defensive tackle, or see a defensive end coming from their backside smashing down on their throwing arm to attempt to cause a fumble or prevent their hand from bouncing off a helmet as they follow through on a throw. The pocket is not the safe place some think it is, even with decent protection.

In the open field the quarterback has a much better view of things than the mess of bodies he often faces in the pocket, with defensive lineman and blitzing linebackers and defensive backs coming from all angles. Of course a quarterback can get hurt anywhere on the football field but I prefer Lulays' chances of avoiding injury in the open field than from a crashing pocket or a blitzer coming from his blind side.

Lulay just needs to not take on tacklers in the open field and get down or out of bounds quickly when a tackler approaches. When Lulay is a double threat quarterback it changes so much in terms of our offence. Even Lulay doesn't run, the spy some teams will put on him will open up our passing game, just due to the threat of Lulay showing that he is willing to run. Defensive ends will widen out and open up off-tackle holes for Harris. Its all GOOD!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

Forgot to mention that Lulay also has a third option to throw the football off the read option. Lulay, like Russell Wilson, has the ability to pull that third option off. The defensive back will cheat up if Lulay gets outside and Lulay can throw it just before he crosses the line of scrimmage.

I'm sure we'll see that happen in the future for a big play.

What I would like to see in the future is the fake handoff to Harris, the fake reverse and the play action boot with Lulay getting outside, Harris slipping underneath in the first layered route into the secondary after the fake, the slot running a skinny corner and the outside receiver taking it deep. Lulay runs that play very, very well.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
Toppy Vann
Hall of Famer
Posts: 9793
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:56 pm

It was asked why Buck and Travis weren't read the riot act before when it was clear their injuries were becoming a factor and it's clear that the Lions coaches were wishy washy versus now where one more injury is not only to end TL's career, it will kill their gate with no clear back up ready to take over.

What got BP and TL to their roles where they learned the CFL didn't need to keep them there. The game is full of QBs who don't risk injury. They needed to morph into those guys who no longer could do what they did to electrify fans but as they learned the pro game could still play and not take on LBs and DBs.

The Lions know that fans have lost their patience and the TL injury story with no replacement has been bad for sales. One more he's gone and now I am sure he knows this versus before he didn't seem to have that thinking.

After his serious injury he said he'd do it again - the run. Today's TL understands now this harms his team. That is more powerful an understanding than him worried that it will end his career.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
User avatar
Belize City Lion
Hall of Famer
Posts: 3592
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:39 pm
Location: Belize City, Belize

I noticed a slight adjustment in Lulay's slide as the game went on. Early on he was giving up a good 2 yards by sliding early. As the game went on he started sliding a bit later. Still safely but often gaining an extra yard or two before hitting the turf.

The Rider game might be the one that changes how QBs play the game in the CFL in the future. Don't be surprised to see teams copy the Lions off season training for Lulay on how to protect himself. If Lulay can run for over 100 yards without putting his body at risk, why would other teams not look at doing the same with their QBs BEFORE they get injured?
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Belize City Lion wrote:I noticed a slight adjustment in Lulay's slide as the game went on. Early on he was giving up a good 2 yards by sliding early. As the game went on he started sliding a bit later. Still safely but often gaining an extra yard or two before hitting the turf.

The Rider game might be the one that changes how QBs play the game in the CFL in the future. Don't be surprised to see teams copy the Lions off season training for Lulay on how to protect himself. If Lulay can run for over 100 yards without putting his body at risk, why would other teams not look at doing the same with their QBs BEFORE they get injured?
"The Rider game might be the one that changes how QBs play the game in the CFL in the future." -- BCL
Agreed. And some will say it is not fair that QBs get the special protection of sliding. If a QB can run like a tailback in the open field, why should he be able to avoid contact with the slide? Some might say that on a zone read, with a very mobile QB, he should be fair game for tacklers.

I expect it might become an issue for the rules committee. And I expect QBs to continue to get the protection. Personally, this fan has no trouble with it.

Such as it is in the CFL, QBs do fill the seats at games. As does offence.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

Toppy Vann wrote:It was asked why Buck and Travis weren't read the riot act before when it was clear their injuries were becoming a factor and it's clear that the Lions coaches were wishy washy versus now where one more injury is not only to end TL's career, it will kill their gate with no clear back up ready to take over.

What got BP and TL to their roles where they learned the CFL didn't need to keep them there. The game is full of QBs who don't risk injury. They needed to morph into those guys who no longer could do what they did to electrify fans but as they learned the pro game could still play and not take on LBs and DBs.

The Lions know that fans have lost their patience and the TL injury story with no replacement has been bad for sales. One more he's gone and now I am sure he knows this versus before he didn't seem to have that thinking.

After his serious injury he said he'd do it again - the run. Today's TL understands now this harms his team. That is more powerful an understanding than him worried that it will end his career.
Why is it that Buck Pierce and Travis Lulay were never ordered to get down into the slide? Why were special drills not given to them?

Old school thinking, going back to their teenage years. "Be tough. Be a man." When our D Line was struggling, no technical stuff was mentioned, but they had to "Be men. Be tough." Some coaches, no doubt including Wally Buono, focus on the attitude: Be tough. From there, instinct and intuition have to find the solution. Old school worked in the old days. Not so much anymore.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
pennw
Legend
Posts: 1921
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:50 am
Location: Chilliwack

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Toppy Vann wrote:It was asked why Buck and Travis weren't read the riot act before when it was clear their injuries were becoming a factor and it's clear that the Lions coaches were wishy washy versus now where one more injury is not only to end TL's career, it will kill their gate with no clear back up ready to take over.

What got BP and TL to their roles where they learned the CFL didn't need to keep them there. The game is full of QBs who don't risk injury. They needed to morph into those guys who no longer could do what they did to electrify fans but as they learned the pro game could still play and not take on LBs and DBs.

The Lions know that fans have lost their patience and the TL injury story with no replacement has been bad for sales. One more he's gone and now I am sure he knows this versus before he didn't seem to have that thinking.

After his serious injury he said he'd do it again - the run. Today's TL understands now this harms his team. That is more powerful an understanding than him worried that it will end his career.
Why is it that Buck Pierce and Travis Lulay were never ordered to get down into the slide? Why were special drills not given to them?

Old school thinking, going back to their teenage years. "Be tough. Be a man." When our D Line was struggling, no technical stuff was mentioned, but they had to "Be men. Be tough." Some coaches, no doubt including Wally Buono, focus on the attitude: Be tough. From there, instinct and intuition have to find the solution. Old school worked in the old days. Not so much anymore.

Just IMO ...
Some , like Damon Allen were doing this long ago . Allen had a long career , doing lots of running with out getting hurt , doing the stuff we saw Travis do last game . Dunnigan at the same time did it a different way . He was the QB with a linebacker attitude and did get hurt a fair bit . Seeing the two showed that it was not necessary to take the hits in those days . Seemed to be more a matter of pride for some , being the tough guy like Dunnigan instead of going down like Allen . I don't think coaches were telling their QB to play that way . Pierce IMO took it upon himself to play that way , as did Lulay previously . Now the coaches are ordering the QB to go down and Lulay may well have turned the corner. I think we will see this approach get taken by others too .
Post Reply