Tristan Jackson takes out Cam Morrah's knee

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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.theprovince.com/sports/footb ... story.html

From Lowell Ullrich ...
The five-foot-eight Jackson took out a considerably larger Morrah, causing a minor melee near the end of regulation play, and the result was torn anterior and medial cruciate ligaments.

Morrah is done for the season, and the severity of the injury, considering the 28-year-old has had previous medical issues, has possible career-ending implications.

There was a range of emotions about the unpenalized hit at practice Monday, and many Lions players sided with the belief that such a play simply revealed the brutal side of the game.

Jackson did not escape total blame, however, as there are still those who see such hits as evidence that a double standard is applied, claiming the same hit on a quarterback would result in a penalty. And as is often the case, it was Andrew Harris who didn’t hold back.

“A dirty hit is a dirty hit,” the tailback said. “There’s a number of DBs in this league that are notorious. I get that you’re smaller, but when you’re unprotected and unseen that’s uncalled for. You can shoot at the hip. Going that low on the knee is dirty, and I think the league should address it.

“I get that quarterbacks are the highest paid, but you need receivers and running backs to make this game what it is, and I don’t think those guys should be held at a different standard.”
Several Lions players cornered Jackson immediately after the game, led by Travis Lulay, who agreed that a similar hit on him would have drawn a flag because of a league-wide desire to keep quarterbacks healthy.

“We had a little conversation. (Jackson) made the point of saying he wasn’t trying to hurt the guy,” said Lulay.
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WestCoastJoe
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http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/foot ... story.html

From Mike Beamish ...
As the Roughriders 5-8 defensive back Tristan Jackson moved in to tackle B.C. Lions slotback Cam Morrah last Friday, his instincts told him to blast headlong with a low tackle, with little regard for the consequences.

Morrah, a former NFL tight end, is 6-3 and 240 pounds. Taking him to the turf with a pure, bone-jarring, textbook tackle to the mid-section wasn’t going to get it done. So Jackson, outweighed by close to 50 pounds, went for the legs after Morrah made the catch. It was the costliest five-yard gain of the season for the Lions. Morrah has suspected MCL and ACL tears and is likely gone for the season.

“It was a nasty hit,” offered slotback Courtney Taylor, who didn’t play in the Lions’ 35-32 overtime win but is being activated for Friday’s rematch at Mosaic Stadium. “His foot was planted, his back was turned. He didn’t even get a chance to make a football move. It’s all about taking care of people. In my opinion, you can take care of the quarterbacks because there’s a no-hitting zone. But there should be a no-hitting zone for every player. I’ve never been a big fan of hitting players in the knees.”
“Cam’s a big guy — and he (Jackson) hit him low, in the legs, just to tackle him,” Lulay said. “If that had been done against a quarterback, he’d be penalized. A quarterback is considered defenceless in that situation. It is disappointing when something like that happens, when one of my guys goes down. To his credit, Tristan told me and Ryan Phillips that there was no intent to injure.”
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WestCoastJoe
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No intent to injure?

This fan does not buy it.

A pro athlete who does not know the risks of certain hits?

If you want to knock out a big receiver from behind, where do you hit him? Yes, in the knee, from a dive, with your helmet, or even with your shoulder. The receiver cannot see you. His knee is planted.

In the opinion of this fan, it was a dirty hit, putting the football career of Cam Morrah at severe risk of being over.
..............

Same with head shots, IMO. A tackler says he is not trying to injure? OK, then why hit the chin with your helmet? Or why hit the QB in the head with your helmet? Don't know where your own helmet is? I don't buy it. Does a pro golfer know where the head of his club is? Yes. Does a boxer know where his fist is? Yes.
............

When a defensive tackle, on the ground, first did a "roll up" on the quarterback's legs, did the DT know what he was doing? Of course. And for a while it was not penalized.
............

This fan does not like to see careers put at risk from dangerous hits. There is more than enough excitement in football, without the need for athletes to be seriously injured by risky hits.
...........

Could Tristan Jackson have taken Morrah to the ground without targeting his knee? Of course. He is a professional defensive back, with a number of tackling skills at his disposal.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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would it be irony is Leonard takes out Jackson, while not trying to hurt him?
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Sir Purrcival
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What is even more crazy is that Jackson also himself got hurt earlier in the game as a result of him lowering his head and diving head long towards a BC receiver. Unfortunately (or fortunately) in that instance he ended up hitting his own player more than the Lion
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WestCoastJoe
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Sir Purrcival wrote:What is even more crazy is that Jackson also himself got hurt earlier in the game as a result of him lowering his head and diving head long towards a BC receiver. Unfortunately (or fortunately) in that instance he ended up hitting his own player more than the Lion
I didn't see that. But I guess it goes with the territory for Jackson. Puts himself at risk. Puts others at risk. Dangerous player. I suppose at his small size, he has felt he has to do that to compensate for his lack of size. And of course, in a high risk game, teams will use a player like that.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Sir Purrcival wrote:What is even more crazy is that Jackson also himself got hurt earlier in the game as a result of him lowering his head and diving head long towards a BC receiver. Unfortunately (or fortunately) in that instance he ended up hitting his own player more than the Lion
Too many guys lead with their helmet; eventually it is going to catch up with someone...either the guy they hit or themselves.

A lot of you probably remember James Bell back in 1986 becoming paralyzed after tackling Jan Carinci at BC Place. Bell often led with his helmet and that time did the same. Only that time his vertebrae twisted and his football career was over. I still remember seeing that and feeling sick to my stomach when he was carted off the field.

Here is an article about how he has fared since then: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/f ... cle594810/

Based on the fines handed out this year, I think Jackson's action warrant a fine. In the meantime, perhaps he and the other guys who lead with their helmet should familiarize themselves with James Bell's story.
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Another byline to Friday's rematch
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Toppy Vann
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Wally and Jeff T had no issues but the players did. Old school guys or ?

I think it is good that a player like gets confronted and reminded. Doesn't help an injured guy.

But coaches need to be public and clear like Trestman was when Emry (?) did something bad. MT post game - that's now who we are - clearly denounced.

Phil Jackson - respect for the game, respect for your opponents and respect for yourself and your team - that is the only way to eliminate dirty play. But too many coaches - espec at amateur level think injure versus play hard, play fair.

Overall the CFL is pretty tame - but as players say - they are some out there that will take a cheap shot.
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Toppy Vann wrote:Wally and Jeff T had no issues but the players did. Old school guys or ?

I think it is good that a player like gets confronted and reminded. Doesn't help an injured guy.

But coaches need to be public and clear like Trestman was when Emry (?) did something bad. MT post game - that's now who we are - clearly denounced.

Phil Jackson - respect for the game, respect for your opponents and respect for yourself and your team - that is the only way to eliminate dirty play. But too many coaches - espec at amateur level think injure versus play hard, play fair.

Overall the CFL is pretty tame - but as players say - they are some out there that will take a cheap shot.
Typo or Freudian slip? made me lol.
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It was a legal hit by Jackson on Morrah. Was it a dirty hit? I doubt that was its intention. Defensive backs go for the knees all the time. Our defensive backs have played that way as well. They've outlawed head shots in certain situations for defensive backs. They've eliminated crack back blocks. Quarterbacks have been increasingly protected by not being allowed to be hit in the head in any way or be tackled at the knees in the pocket. Quarterbacks can slide to ovoid being hit. The definition of a late hit on a quarterback has been increasingly penalized.

Over and over, the rules have been changed and continue to be changed in attempts to help protect players from injury. But the reality is that this is football and not the powder puff variety. The injury to Morrah was unfortunate. But a shoulder hit to a rigid leg in that circumstance could have resulted in the same injury.

The bigger question is whether we want pro football to become flag football with live blocking on the offensive lines while having the players wearing shoulder pads and helmets or whether we want to keep some version of the game as its been traditionally played. If we want the latter, there is only so much that can be done to avoid injury in a contact game that is played at such high speed with very athletic, highly skilled athletes.

We're upset that we've lost a player to injury on a helmet to knee hit, with a player In a vulnerable position. But a player can also lead with the shoulder and with either a slight change of direction from an offensive player or a slightly off-target tackle attempt and you are going to get helmet on knee collisions, even when there was an attempt to lead with the shoulder. Defensive backs are vulnerable when they tackle, just as offensive players are when they get hit or tackled. They get hurt when they tackle with their head and they get hurt when they tackle with their shoulders too.

Are we going to ban tackling any player in the knee area or in what situations are we going to penalize that type of tackle or hit. What will be defined as vulnerable? Players are vulnerable any time they are tackled. Helmets and shoulder pads can cause injury to areas of the body that are not in the knee or head area. There are rib injuries and back injuries and spleen injuries and abdominal injuries. Will a defensive back have to wait for a receiver to turn around before he can be tackled? In the future, will he no longer be able to hit him in the back, as well as the knees or head. How far does the game go to protect players and what will the result be?

No player wants to get hurt. Its their career and livelihood at this stage of their life. At the same time, pro football may not create a livelihood in the longer future, if the game becomes so restrictive, rules wise, that it is no longer the pro football game that has enjoyed so much success (including financial success)

In many ways the game has already significantly changed from the version we once watched. An important question is how far does it go or can it go, before it becomes a different game.... and would that different game enjoy the same support it has in the past.
Would it still experience success if defensive players could only arm tackle or wrap up? How far does it go to protect players? What kind of game do the players want to play?

In an age of legal litigation over all kinds of injuries and a time where post-concussion syndrome has become a serious issue, both from a health and legal perspective, another question is how long will it be until most heavy contact sports become legislated or penalized away like tobacco. Heck, maybe one day the government will tax football injuries. :wink:

Morrah got hurt. Wish he hadn't. Next man up. Injuries, including knee injuries have always been a part of football. Its a high risk sport. We need to protect players as best we can from concussions and big changes have taken place in that area. We protect the marque quarterback position like we have never have protected him before and its very difficult for a defensive player to tackle a quarterback in the target zone. We protect receivers now more than ever. Return teams are only allowed to block above the waist when at one time they could block a player any way they could. For the most part, I think we've gone far enough.

The reason that we went to a big tight end like Morrah and will go with an even bigger one in Leonard is we not only want a bigger target but also a receiver who could run over and demolish smaller defensive backs.

Wishing Cam Morrah a full recovery.
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cromartie
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Classless, perhaps, but legal in light of the size difference.

I do seem to recall seeing on the Twitters that Jackson may not play this week.
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B.C.FAN
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Blitz wrote:It was a legal hit by Jackson on Morrah. Was it a dirty hit? I doubt that was its intention. Defensive backs go for the knees all the time. Our defensive backs have played that way as well. They've outlawed head shots in certain situations for defensive backs. They've eliminated crack back blocks. Quarterbacks have been increasingly protected by not being allowed to be hit in the head in any way or be tackled at the knees in the pocket. Quarterbacks can slide to ovoid being hit. The definition of a late hit on a quarterback has been increasingly penalized.

Over and over, the rules have been changed and continue to be changed in attempts to help protect players from injury. But the reality is that this is football and not the powder puff variety. The injury to Morrah was unfortunate. But a shoulder hit to a rigid leg in that circumstance could have resulted in the same injury.

The bigger question is whether we want pro football to become flag football with live blocking on the offensive lines while having the players wearing shoulder pads and helmets or whether we want to keep some version of the game as its been traditionally played. If we want the latter, there is only so much that can be done to avoid injury in a contact game that is played at such high speed with very athletic, highly skilled athletes.

We're upset that we've lost a player to injury on a helmet to knee hit, with a player In a vulnerable position. But a player can also lead with the shoulder and with either a slight change of direction from an offensive player or a slightly off-target tackle attempt and you are going to get helmet on knee collisions, even when there was an attempt to lead with the shoulder. Defensive backs are vulnerable when they tackle, just as offensive players are when they get hit or tackled. They get hurt when they tackle with their head and they get hurt when they tackle with their shoulders too.

Are we going to ban tackling any player in the knee area or in what situations are we going to penalize that type of tackle or hit. What will be defined as vulnerable? Players are vulnerable any time they are tackled. Helmets and shoulder pads can cause injury to areas of the body that are not in the knee or head area. There are rib injuries and back injuries and spleen injuries and abdominal injuries. Will a defensive back have to wait for a receiver to turn around before he can be tackled? In the future, will he no longer be able to hit him in the back, as well as the knees or head. How far does the game go to protect players and what will the result be?

No player wants to get hurt. Its their career and livelihood at this stage of their life. At the same time, pro football may not create a livelihood in the longer future, if the game becomes so restrictive, rules wise, that it is no longer the pro football game that has enjoyed so much success (including financial success)

In many ways the game has already significantly changed from the version we once watched. An important question is how far does it go or can it go, before it becomes a different game.... and would that different game enjoy the same support it has in the past.
Would it still experience success if defensive players could only arm tackle or wrap up? How far does it go to protect players? What kind of game do the players want to play?

In an age of legal litigation over all kinds of injuries and a time where post-concussion syndrome has become a serious issue, both from a health and legal perspective, another question is how long will it be until most heavy contact sports become legislated or penalized away like tobacco. Heck, maybe one day the government will tax football injuries. :wink:

Morrah got hurt. Wish he hadn't. Next man up. Injuries, including knee injuries have always been a part of football. Its a high risk sport. We need to protect players as best we can from concussions and big changes have taken place in that area. We protect the marque quarterback position like we have never have protected him before and its very difficult for a defensive player to tackle a quarterback in the target zone. We protect receivers now more than ever. Return teams are only allowed to block above the waist when at one time they could block a player any way they could. For the most part, I think we've gone far enough.

The reason that we went to a big tight end like Morrah and will go with an even bigger one in Leonard is we not only want a bigger target but also a receiver who could run over and demolish smaller defensive backs.

Wishing Cam Morrah a full recovery.
I agree completely, Blitz. Players like big hits. Fans like big hits. DBs are taught to go low. You can't put too many restrictions on a defender trying to make a tackle in the open field. It's hard enough to make contact on a moving target. Jackson laid a big (and clean) hit on Shaquille Murray-Lawrence earlier in the game to break up a pass. As a returner, he takes his share of hits too.

According to the Regina Leader-Post, Jackson is welcoming any retaliation from the Lions.
When Jackson was asked Tuesday if he expected the Lions to come after him during Friday’s rematch at Mosaic Stadium, he replied: “I hope so. I like physical play.”

“It’s football, so I don’t care,” he continued. “The first play of the game, their receiver came out and cut one of our players downfield, so it could have been the same way.

“They set the tone like that, so I just finished it.”

Lions quarterback Travis Lulay told the Sun that he asked Jackson after the game to explain his actions and the veteran cornerback said he didn’t intend to injure Morrah.

Jackson reiterated that sentiment Tuesday.

“I’m just out playing football,” he said. “I ain’t trying to hurt nobody. It’s just the way I’ve tackled my whole career, from Little League all the way to the pros.”
Riders’ Jackson ready for action against the Lions
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Once cooler heads prevailed Lions like Taylor and Harris seemed to have more questions about why the QB's lower extremities are "protected" while the same doesn't go for other ball carriers. Even when such contact happens on a QB it's often more incidental than deliberate. DL have to battle through pass blockers who try their damndest to make sure if the DL breaks loose and gets past them that they'll be doing it on their hands and knees. DB'S and LBs on the other hand usually go low in open field. They could just as easily try to wrap up and tackle but instead propel themselves at the ball carrier's lower legs. Strangely the play more likely to be accidental is deemed illegal and thought of as cheap while the play that is more deliberate and with purpose is deemed legal and fair play.
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WestCoastJoe
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Somewhere along the line, the diving, attempted tackle at the knees or possibly hips became popular with DBs. (The first one I ever saw was on TV. A DB took down Jimmy Brown on a sweep for a loss. Probably thought he had no chance to hog tie him and get him down. It was kind of shocking. No wrap up. In effect, it is kind of a trip up.) It can look flashy. It can backfire in a hurry, as we saw even against the Riders and RedBlacks. You do not wrap up the ball carrier or receiver. I think the DBs feel that is easier on them, and can be fun. You fly through the air. A nice takeout looks cool. But once again, no wrap. And then there is the injury aspect, to both the receiver and the would-be tackler.

I prefer an approach that will not allow the DBs to use that diving technique. Some coaches do not allow it. Safer for all. And more sure tackling can be achieved with a more conventional, less sensational wrap up technique. Guys will volunteer for dangerous professions all the way to death-defying. At this stage of my life I prefer to see protection of the skull and spinal cord. And as noted I would prefer to see more protection of the knee, especially if another type of tackle would stop the ball carrier.

It seems to me this discussion is not that far from the issue of concussions and post-playing-days difficulties of pro athletes. One example of a defender/tackler noted above. There will always be hard hitting in football. But you must protect the head and the spinal cord in particular. IMO the knees should also be getting protection, as with no chop blocks, no rollups on QBs' legs, no shots from behind at the knees of a blind receiver, et cetera.

Chop blocks.

Rollups.

Helmet to chest.

Helmet to chin.

Helmet to face cage.

Horse collar.

Helmet to back of head.

Revoke forward progress rule? Must take him to the ground, even with gang tackle?

Late hits on QB.

Hit the QB even if he goes to the ground?

All legal at one time or another I think.

Et cetera ...

Some fans would favour these things still.

Many/most/all athletes would play anyway. Do some regret it later?

Our own Lions were accused by the Stampeders and other teams of using hits to the knees by DBs in previous years. I didn't favour those hits either.

Helmet to knee? Still allowed, it would seem.

Just IMO ...
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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